The White Sox officially acquired Manny Ramirez from the Dodgers, tweets USA Today's Bob Nightengale. MLB Network's Peter Gammons tweets that the Sox decided to take on Manny's entire salary in lieu of surrendering a prospect, so this is a straight waiver claim. $3.8MM of Ramirez's $20MM salary remains, though three-quarters of that is deferred without interest. The move bears some similarity to Chicago's waiver claim of Alex Rios from the Blue Jays on August 10th of last year – both players were simply handed over for salary relief. In this case, Ramirez waived his no-trade rights without compensation.
Ramirez has worn out his welcome at each of his three previous stops, as chronicled by Yahoo's Jeff Passan. Still, he represents the best possible designated hitter upgrade the White Sox could have made. Manny is still a near-lock for a .400 OBP and .500 slugging percentage, and he may be motivated by his impending free agency and damaged reputation. The White Sox are running out of time to close the 4.5 game gap with the Twins. With 32 games remaining, Baseball Prospectus pegs Chicago's playoff chances at 8.9%.
Another player Kenny Williams used to have a baseball card of when he was a kid…Seriously, when’s the last time Chicago acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime?
This easily makes the White Sox better. They went from no real DH to Manny who is still really good. I hope he has a few more DL stints in him.
Is there a better place for an arrogant but productive star to ply his trade than the hot mess of different personalities and gritty fans that is the South Side of Chicago? I can’t think of one.
There have always been some classy players, some jerkwads, and some first class lunatics on the Sox, but Guillen keeps them together enough to win. If there is anywhere that can absorb Manny’s antics and still come out in one piece and winning, surely it’s the Sox.
I wish Manny nothing but the best….now get out! He sparked the team in 2008, for that I am grateful. Playing left field sapped his legs, not to mention getting popped for PED’s, after which he wasn’t the same. He should make a perfect DH. This move is good for everybody.
I’m glad the biggest problems happened while he was with the Dodgers. Being a Red Sox fan, the time we had him for was great. Even though he acted up and got traded, I’m still a Manny fan. Great move by the White Sox.
FYI, Manny never got popped for PEDs.
He got busted for using a drug that may (or may not) have been used to mask the effects of former PED use.
Manny has never tested positive for a baseball performance enhancing drug.
Right. He was taking female fertility drugs because he wasn’t trying to mask taking PED’s. May or may not my eye. Maybe he was trying to get pregnant.
FYI, it’s not simply a female fertility drug. That’s just what ESPN and other sports site reported cause it was good for news/headlines.
He got busted for taking hCG. It is released naturally by women during pregnancy, but it has MANY uses by doctors today as a synthesized drug.
One of the most common is weight loss.
Both men and women take this as you can actually go on a 500 calorie a day diet and feel completely stuffed. It’s used for rapid weight loss in the range of like 15-30 lbs in 26-40 days.
Another use is for men who suffer from infertility. Johnny Cueto used this excuse. You choose not to believe this if you want, but there are more things than just steroids that lower men’s sperm counts.
I’m NOT saying Manny definitely did not take PEDs….but he NEVER, EVER tested positive for them.
You can buy hCG over the counter as a weightloss drug……
So maybe Manny was trying to lose some weight. Anyone think he couldn’t stand to lose a few pounds?
Or maybe he’s getting old and losing his libido and has a low sperm count.
Yes, I do agree that in this day and age, steroids are probably the most likely……but Manny never, ever tested positive for anything directly linked to steroids.
In reality, we have no more solid proof that he used than we do on any player.
I did not know that. Thanks for the thorough clarification.
Your posting is a very thorough, astute and informative compilation of double talk and grand BS. Alex Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire and David Ortiz, to name a few never test positive either, and we all know how that’s turned out. Looking at Manny the last few years, it’s somewhat a given that he has not worried about losing weight.
Besides any MLB trainer would have many better options for him to lose weight than taking a banned substance. And as far as your theory about his libido, I offer the thought that a 38 year old man, doesn’t really think about fathering children that much as a twenty- something year old. In reality we don’t have concrete proof that he did, but it appears strongly that he did. Reading your post as well as it’s written, I wonder if your not his publicist.
Overall, a very solid move for the White Sox. I think they’ve made some great moves and are playing well. I wouldn’t count them out just yet. I think they have a better chance of making the post season than the Red Sox. It’s pretty lopsided in AL overall this season and there is a short list of contenders at this point. For the most part, outside of the White Sox, I think we know who our 4 teams are at this point. I don’t see any of these teams having a Met like collapse. Solid on the Dodgers part too. Pocket the cash for next season.
Go Twins.
I still am trying so hard to see how he “wore out his welcome” here in LA
KNOWLEDGABLE fans know what he was bringing to the plate.
I must admit, LA isn’t the haven of knowledgable fans though, we’re in the land of “fairweatherdom”
Yeah, I’m kind of curious how he wore out his welcome in Cleveland.
There were websites devoted to paying Manny, and Manny was in fact offered the largest contract the Indians have ever offered a player (total money that is).
The Indians as a team and the fans wanted him back. We simply got overspent by the Red Sox.
It’s true that after he took the money fans in Cleveland got ticked at him….but how is that wearing out your welcome?
I perceived a lack of hustle. He could hit, but I think playing left field wore him out. I always stopped what I was doing when he came to the plate. When he started to coast, that’s when he lost it.
even if the TWINS win the division they’re going to be out in the first round because they have to play new york or tampa bay. They better hope they get tampa bay because when a-rod and berkman come back it’s going to be ugly for whoever is in their way
I wouldn’t say the Twins are for sure out. I kind of like their chances (relatively speaking) against the Yanks in the 1st round. You just never know with the pitching sometimes. CC could get rocked then things could get dicey after that.
Obviously the Yanks would still be hte favorites, and it would be a pretty big upset if the Twins won….but defintiely possible if Pavano can keep it together with Liraino as well.
Twins have been snake bitten for the last few years when facing NY. They’re due!
Ugh.
Carl Pavano.
Is this a good move if the Sox do not catch the Twins? Or is it just wasted money? Does it really give the Sox any better chance at winning, since he essentially replaces Quentin in the lineup, considering they both only play one position acceptably – DH. The difference between Quentin (.239/.336/.486 –.821 babip .229) and Manny (.311/.405/.510 –.915 bapip.346) appears to be entirely made up of the above average babip vs the below average one.
he replaces kotsay/jones. quentin will remain in RF, ramirez DH.
But my point is, that considering Quentin’s beyond bad defense in right field, aren’t the Sox forcing themselves to play with two DHs? Does Quentin’s poor defense out there negate his presence from the lineup?
Jones .215/.321/.474 — .795 babip .212
Kotsay .233/.307/.382 — .688 babip .238
Both of those guys are much less gaudy in the slash dept, sure. Manny doesn’t actually replace either of them, though, as while they played DH, they were both acceptable defenders at different positions. Remove Jones from the roster, no more fielding relief. Remove Kotsay, no more backup first base. Unless of course you relish the inexperienced at first and just as bad in the outfield Teahen. I suppose a solution is to go with one less reliever, although considering the injuries, i doubt that works.
I don’t question Manny’s ability to produce extra wins over a season. At nearly 4 Mil, and high slash numbers owing at least a little bit to being lucky, is it really a good risk? That’s all I’m wondering about.
Do you even watch the Sox at all??…ever???. What makes you think that either Jones or Kotsay will be removed from the roster? Maybe itll be Lillibridge…or one of the kids recently brought up to work in the bullpen.
With Sept call ups just around the corner I doubt seriously that having one less DH who can play decently in the field is a major concern…or one less arm in the pen. The dugout will be full in a couple of days
You do realize that rosters expand to 40 on Sept 1st? That solves the problem of the extra reliever. So Manny, Kotsay and Jones will all be on the roster.
sure it’s a risk, but the offensive upgrade over kotsay/jones is staggering if ramirez hits according to his ability. quentin has played the majority of this season in RF anyway. and i’m not too worried about a first base backup, especially with the callups coming. if they make the playoffs, paul will be there every game anyway. kotsay has no value. i would keep jones around though as he still seems a decent defender.
“when’s the last time Chicago acquired an impact player who isn’t past his prime?”
Carlos Quentin
Alex Rios
Gavin Floyd
John Danks
Edwin Jackson
Alexi Ramirez
All of these players were acquired by KW in the last couple of years, either by trade or FA signing. They are now the cornerstones of the franchise.
As far as the Manny claim…what fan wouldn’t want his team that has a glaring hole at DH to acquire him for nothing but $4M (which most of that is deferred)?
I admitted Quentin was one. He’s the only example I’ve seen.
Rios still has his best seasons behind him. Floyd never had playing time before. Danks never played in the MLB before. Jackson hasn’t yet shown whether his best stuff is behind him or not. Alexei was picked up out of Cuba.
I’m talking about going out and getting a guy who actually played in the majors, and goes on to do BETTER for Chicago than he did elsewhere. I’m talking about buying low on a player, rather than buying high because they’ve got a bigger name than their current abilities justify.
Obviously Manny helps. But you know when a DH would have helped? April, when you were having trouble scoring runs. Right now you’re scoring plenty of runs, but your bullpen is in shambles. KW is buying a patch for the sink when it’s the tub that’s currently leaking.
We have the most agressive GM in the game. If there was a impact bat that he could have traded for in April, he would have made the deal.He gave you a list of players, much like I did. Free agent signings and drafts matter as well.
So you are saying because not every move he makes is a reclamation project, his abilities as a GM have to be questioned by a Twins fan of all people? We’ve had plenty of reclamation projects and players who have faired far better in Chicago then they have elsewhere. Just look at the multiple lists provided for you that you choose to disregard…..
Cripes. I’m just noting that KW seems to have a tendency to go out and get once-great veterans. I’m not questioning his talents as a GM. It’s a simple observation: You seem to always be able to count on KW to go get a once-great player (who’s currently past his prime) in August.
Maybe they were further back, but how about Loaiza, then flipping Loaiza for Contreras. Both had their best seasons on the White Sox. Pierzinski has had his best seasons on the Sox.
Floyd played with the Phillies, he pitched in 24 games and started 19 of those. I’m sure I could come up with more, but in the end, who cares if a guy is “passed his prime” if he is helping the club? Who has Kenny actually given up that has come back to bite him? Nobody I can think of. On the team right now, the only guys Kenny didn’t get are Konerko and Buehrle. Everyone else was acquired/signed/drafted by Kenny.
AJ’s best season most certainly came in 2003 for the Twins, if you wanna look at OPS.
But other than that, all you Sox folks seem to think I’m taking a stab at KW. I’m not. I’m making an observation that he seems to be partial to guys who were once-great. It’s amusing to me. If it’s a player who has 10+ years in the majors, is destined for Cooperstown, KW seems to desperate want him.
That’s fine, but you didn’t say he is partial to guys who were once great, you said when was the last time he picked up a player who wasn’t passed his prime. If you had worded it the first way, or the way you are now, you wouldn’t have had a bunch of people try to prove you wrong. You also were refuting what some others were saying trying to prove the point that he hasn’t picked up a player who wasn’t passed his prime in a while. Most guys other than Griffey that he has picked up even passed their prime has performed well for the Sox. Even Griffey played decently. I don’t care if a guy is passed his prime, just that he helps the team, which a lot seem to do.
As you said he did get chances with the phils. Not many people could of predicted what hes done with the Sox off those chances. GM for the Sox should definetly get credit for that.
So you are going to keep narrowing it down until it’s impossible for you to be wrong? By the way, Floyd had 19 career starts before he came to the Sox.
But I still have an answer…………Matt Thornton! He sucked in Seattle and he was an All Star this year. Possibly the best LH reliever in baseball.
Or how about Jermaine Dye? He had monster years with the Sox, including World series MVP. Or wait…..Jose Contreras!! I know those are going back about 5 years, but they were MAJOR pieces to the championship team.
As far as Edwin Jackson, the Sox acquired him for the pennant race because they did not want to rely on Hudson (rookie) down the stretch. If you look at his numbers in his few starts with the Sox….he is making an “impact”.
As far as Manny, there is no argument that he improves the Sox lineup. Yes the bullpen is beat up right now, but the good thing is everybody knows that KW will make as many moves as possible to win. So if there is bullpen help that the Sox can get….Kenny will do it. It wasn’t any either/or question.
Thornton, Dye. Sure, there’s two more good examples.
Floyd and Jackson are both working from *really* small sample sizes. I don’t think anyone would look at 23 collective games between two players and draw conclusions from that.
Once again, I’m just noting how he seems to have a tendency for once-great players. That’s all. I’m not saying he’s not a fine GM, or that he has *never* found budding stars. I just find it kind of interesting that if there’s a former All-Star, future HOFer, but currently well past his prime, you can always count on KW to make a play for him.
As for the bullpen – how’d Fuentes get past you guys? I’m not trying to be a jerk about it – I was honestly surprised he slipped all the way to us on waivers. I figured for sure you guys would jump at any half-decent reliever.
I think Fuentes came down to they didn’t want to fork over $2 mil for him and also $4 mil for Manny, or they couldn’t. At the time Fuentes came through they had Threets and Sale as lefties in the pen, Threets hadn’t given up a run yet in the majors and Sale has also been pretty good. Thornton also should be off the DL soon. I don’t think they saw a need for Fuentes, although now it hurts that Threets got hurt.
Fuentes is passed his prime.
It’s funny how people will say playing LF has sapped his leg strength and the follow up that he wasn’t hustling for balls as well or running the bases well. Which is it? Is he getting old or just lazy? My guess is….getting older. Despite what any LA fan wants to say about him being lazy, falling off or being on a steep decline, he still averaged .322/.433/.580 as a Dodger while hitting 44 hrs in 892 PA. That’s an average of 1 per 20 AB. He has a career average of 1 hr per 17 PA prior to becoming a Dodger. So that means he has a slightly lower HR rate as a Dodger than he did earlier in his career.
CLE: .313/.407 w/ 1 HR per 15 PA
BOS: .312/.411 w/ 1 per PA 17 PA
LAD: .322/.433 w/ 1 HR per 17 PA
He may have hit fewer HRS per PA but he has been a better overall hitter posting OPS of .998 (CLE), .999 (BOS) and 1.012 (LAD). Stop complaining about what he didn’t do for the Dodgers and appreciate the great offense he posted for the last 2 1/2 years. Yes he’s moody…yes he’s aloof…and yes he can’t play a decent LF…but you guys knew that from the beginning.
Dodger fan in complete agreement with you. We were never going to get a great defensive player, and so what? Passan’s column was a hack job on Manny. He has “worn out his welcome”. By what, helping the Indians make it to the postseason, by being a key factor in the Red Sox winning their first World Series in nearly forever, and by helping the Dodgers win their first two postseason series in 20 years.
You want to talk about busts for the Dodgers? Try Darryl Strawberry and Eric Davis. Attitude problem? That would be Gary Sheffield and Milton Bradley. Manny made the rest of the offense around him better and I hope he turns it on in Chicago.
Then again, he can’t win. If he chokes, people will just say it’s Manny without steroids. If he does well, they’ll ask why didn’t he do that with the Dodgers? As for faking it, I haven’t heard one suggestion from the Dodgers training staff that he was dogging it. If so, I guess Morneau, Nelson Cruz, Ian Kinsler, Dustin Pedroia, and Jason Bay are all dogging it too. And that lazy Stephen Strasburg, he got his big contract, now he fakes an injury to sit out all of next year too! (sarcasm intended)
Agreed completely
But as I earlier stated, we don’t have the brightest fanbase.
I have a question. How does deferred compensation work in MLB? Deferred compensation plans in other industries usually obligate the payment of monies into a seperate account controlled by the contractor but assigned to the payee. If the contract is sold, the obligation goes with it. So, even though some of Ramirez’s money is deferred, aren’t the White Sox obligated to pay the pro-rated amount of the deferred money as well as the remainder of his salary obligation for this season? So, if he still owed $4 million – even thought some part of that is paid into a deferred compensation account – aren’t the White Sox still responsible for the whole amount?
Yep..the Sox own the whole ball of wax…all 4 million+ of it.
I hope Manny does well in Chi town, Who knows maybe he was playing possum and is going to actually try now with his new team. He honestly never seemed like he wanted to play this year for the dodgers and a couple of his “injuries” looked to be made up…
So again, what reason does Manny have for faking an injury and missing almost two months right in the middle of a walk year campain? Wouldn’t missing time and looking fragile hurt his chances of getting a better contract this winter?
And let’s look at his actual play.
Overall .311/.405 w/ 8 hrs in 196 AB.
April: .415/.500 w/ 2 hrs and 12 rbi
May: .200/.310 w/ 2 hrs and 13 rbi
June: .366/.431 w/ 4 hrs and 14 rbi
July: Only 3 AB
August: Ony 10 AB
Seems like he was having an absolutely great year prior to going on the DL. How does 13 AB and a sub .200 avg w/ no hrs help his cause for this winter? If anything Manny is all about the money and knows how to turn it on. Even if he has a moster Sept and post-season the two months missed is going to cost him millions. I don’t see him doing that while playing for another contract.
i just wonder what effect this has on anything…I guess he’ll help the sox.
Two quick things:
1. Manny’s display on Sunday was possibly the most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen in my over 25 years of watching this great game.
2. He’s a definite upgrade over Mark Kotsay. It’s rather embarassing to have your DH batting eighth.