Joel Sherman's latest column for the New York Post touches on some issues relevant to both New York teams. Let's take a look:
- Sherman wonders why Derek Jeter's contract situation has garnered such overwhelming amounts of attention, while Mariano Rivera's has drawn significantly less. Sherman opines that Rivera may be the most irreplaceable pitcher in baseball over the past 15 years, and that his contract situation is equally important and deserving of attention.
- The Mets know their flexibility is lacking this offseason, and may have as little as $3MM-$5MM to spend on free agency.
- The Mets' managerial search will likely be over no later than Tuesday, according to Sherman.
- Sherman expects the Mets to wait until later in the offseason (after January 1 perhaps) for free agent prices to drop. He says the Mets will try to sign a reliever, possibly two, and possibly an affordable second baseman and reclamation project starter.
My guess is that $3-5M is just a BS number Sherman came up with.
Yeah, could be. Either way looks like they’re making a big drawn out show of the manager search ’cause they really have nothing else of consequence planned for the rest of the offseason.
I did not read Sherman’s article, so this comment may be redundant, but it seems as if Jeter’s contract situation is getting attention because of the questions surrounding his abilities and the demands he is supposedly making. No one is really sure if he can continue to hit at his established level (especially given the year he had in 2010), and his defense has significantly regressed with age raising questions about his ability to play shortstop over the life of a multi-year deal. On the other hand, Mo is ageless. No one doubts that if he says he can pitch, he will be an elite closer. He still throws one of the two or three best pitches in the game, even in his early 40s. He is certainly irreplaceable and that why his contract is not getting attention. Its a given that the Yankees will sign him. They can’t afford not to.
You know who would be a good reclamation project? Kelvim Escobar.
I think Rivera has less attention on him because he doesn’t seem to be requesting +20 million (minimum) more than he’s actually worth. The three to four years is fine for Jeter, but he should be making 20-30 something total at most. The Yanks should set it at that and say take it or leave it. They are already bending over backwards at 3/45.
Mariano doesn’t seem to have the high demands, though I think the only thing I’ve heard is the two years, nothing about money. They should concentrate on him, he seems to have less of an ego and isn’t demanding the moon. He certainly deserves it more than Derek “me, me, me” Jeter.
Mariano is still good, so he’s going to get a contract he deserves. Jeter is being paid for “intangibles”, not play. He was awful in 2010. That’s why Jeter’s contract situation is so much more interesting.
Jeter’s contract negotiations are garnering more attention because the expectations are outlandish. Its not like any other team is going to offer anything even remotely close to whatever the Yankees do. Make an offer, and if Jeter declines, give him Bernie Williams’ home phone number so they can commiserate on how they have been mistreated.
Rivera’s contract negotiations should be short and sweet. He is still an elite player and deserves everything he has gotten in a Yankees uniform
Jeter is absolutely nothing like he used to be and he just got done a MASSIVE contract that he never really played up to….so if he is being offered an already huge contract for more than just several years….I am not sure how he turns it down
Considering how much teams usually regret giving out 7+ year contracts by the end, I’d say Jeter lived up to his 10 year contract and then some.
WOOF @ 5 million.
Jeter gets all the attention because he is already WAY overpaid relative to what he produces and he’s still asking for outrageous money. Three years and $45 million is at least twice what he could get on the open market.
As to the comment that Rivera is maybe the most irreplaceable pitcher of the last 15 years, that is simply ridiculous. I don’t care how good and reliable a reliever is he is typically no more valuable than a league-average starter in terms of overall team success.
Another one of these? Seriously?
Tim & Staff: Can’t you guys just ignore all of this Jeter/Rivera/Mets Manager BS until something actually happens?
They wont do this because much like with ESPN, talking about the Yankees and Red Sox stirs interest…or at least they think so.
As long as some reporter…who claims to know somebody who says they are close to someone who is close to the situation..wants to put the name Jeter in their story, it will get printed.
You’re right on. Besides, today’s Sunday and Football rules, so they need something to stir interest. What better than Jeter & the Yanks?
Nope, because people are still mad at Jeter and his agent for their “tactics” in negotiating thus far. :p
“Sherman opines that Rivera may be the most irreplaceable pitcher in baseball over the past 15 years…”
Even over Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and Greg Maddux? I don’t think so.
Most irreplaceable reliever? Sure, but not the most irreplaceable pitcher.
Agree and I’m a Yankee fan.
I get what you’re saying but it’s so hard to fathom another Mariano. How many RP have had 6 years of a sub 2.00 ERA and a sub 1.00 whip? Or who’ve had 4 years where they IBB more than they’ve allowed HRS?
Wow, what years were those, I had no idea of that
Actually I just looked it up
Matter of fact it’s 5 years where that happened, and 1 year he had the same amount
Year- IBB/HR
1996 – 3/1
1997- 6/5
1999 – 3/2
2004- 3/3
2006- 4/3
2010- 3/2
Moe is insane.. and he’ll go down in history as the most dominant relief pitcher in history..
but those seasons you just listed are instances when he gave what 70 innings?? Johnson, Clemens, Maddux gave triple the work, they were clearly more irreplaceable just in terms of workload alone.
I love Rivera, but you can’t even use him unless you’ve got a late lead. So I agree that starting pitching is more important than relief.Following that thinking you have to pick a starter over Rivera even though he’s been more consistently good than any starter over the length of his career.
I’m shocked at how many Yankee fans seem to be posting (here and elsewhere) angrily about Derek Jeter.
He had an awful year, but there’s no reason to believe he’s done. The fact is that no one knows what his next three years will look like statistically, and it’s going to cost the Yankees a lot to find out.
My feeling is that 3/45 may or may not work out for the Yanks, but if you’re going to overpay for someone at least do it for a player who has helped you win in the past. I’d only be upset if they were importing someone who was arguably over the hill.
Well as I said people were saying he was done after 2008, and then he had one of the best years in 2009. I do not expect him to ever repeat that kind of year, but no one should be surprised if he bats .300 next year.
I agree with you 100%. I may be a fool for thinking this, but I’m expecting a couple of years like 2008 from him before he’s done. If he makes two out of three like that, 3/45 is not overpaying by much when considering the jersey sales, etc.
i believe at the end of last season it was reported on ny sports radio that a source from the yankees said the public would never hear about contract negotiations with jeter. i interpreted that to mean that jeter would get whatever he wants. it’s a little surprising he’s only being offered 3 yrs. also, why is this being made public?
the yankees never should have signed that huge arod deal. jeter probably looks at that and thinks he’s done more than arod for the yankees. i bet jeter was hoping for a 4 yr 100 million dollar deal.
“Why” is the Jeter contract situation getting the most attention?
Seriously guy? Uh, because Sherman and the rest of the NY sports “media” frauds won’t stop taking about IT!
No one else on the planet gives a s%1t because it really is a forgone conclusion he’ll resign w/ NYY.
What a clown; This is the biggest NON-story of the offseason and this doosh is wondering aloud “why” HE can’t stop talking about it…unbelieveable.
STFU.
Kick his a%s, qbass.
I realize the Yankees seemingly have a blank check ready for Cliff Lee, and for most players that they pursue. I love Derek Jeter, the year he came up was the first year I remember every watching baseball, it was also the year my father took me to my first Yankee game. Jeter may not have the range, or the power, and as last year’s stats might depict (which I believe to be an untimely fluke for him), the hitting ability, as some short stops of today, Jeter’s value to the Pinstripes and Yankee organization and fans cannot be measured by any dollar value. I disagree with how these negotiations seem to be proceeding (of course I only know as much as I can read from reporters). It is my belief that Jeter would take a substantial pay cut from the 15 million he’d be getting per year with the 3/45 they offered him if they were to give him let’s say, 5 years, with the 6th year as a mutual option. At this point in his career, I think he is looking for length of contract, not value. People automatically assume his contract proposal was turn down due to the salary. While that may be true, I certainly do not know, however, I think it was turned down more so because of the limited number of years he is guaranteed to be in the Yankee uniform, and furthermore, playing in general. Give him a contract for 5 years, make it 55 – 60 million dollars with incentives for every milestone he is sure to pass. I think Jeter has the wherewithal to know when his productive days are over and is not interested in hurting the Yankees or putting them in any hole. Figure he has 2 – 3 years left as SS, if that, he can slide over to the DH spot for his remaining years in Pinstripes. I realize the Yankees treat him like a prodigy, but for the past 10+ years, that’s what he has meant to us as fans. I think he’d be willing to take a little less, knowing we are pushing hard to sign for Cliff Lee and that contract is going to be worth a pretty penny. But, then again, who knows. I just don’t want to see this turning into another Bernie Williams Incident where in 3 years he gets invited to Spring Training.
Not only that. Rivera’s agent isn’t being a douche and isn’t taking the negotiations public. Even the rumored 2 years was leaked from his friends. Close needs to STFU or risk the Yankee calling Jeter’s bluff and Jeter end up like Damon.
The reason you don’t see anyone posting that Rivera is overpaid is that he’s simply not! If Rivera were to go out on the market, he would have absolutely no problem getting the $15MM from any serious contending team in baseball. I hate using stats to make comparisons because stats don’t always give the full story, but his numbers far exceed everyone else. Closer is not the most important position on a baseball team except when you don’t have one. Any GM will tell you that.
So what exactly is Rivera’s Baseball value?
I see him being worth 2/20 or so, somewhere around that range. If he ends up with more than that then I see it as an overpay, but it won’t be as big of an overpay (+20 million) as Jeter. And that’s if he’s actually willing to take the low (way overpaid) offer of 45 million.
Even though you’re not saying he should be paid his “baseball value” please….PLEASE…I am implore you not to use WAR to Dollars evaluations w/ regards to relief pitchers.
Mo w/ a 1.89 era, 0.83 whip, 6.8 SO/9, 1.7 BB/9, 6 H/9 and 78.5 LOB %
1.7 WAR = $6.7 mil dollar value
Rafael Betancourt w/ a 3.61 era, 0.96 whip, 13 SO/9, 11 BB/9, 7.5 H/9 and 73.5 LOB %
1.9 WAR = $7.5 dollar value
So basically they value Betancourt over Rivera more because Betancourt strikes out more. Great. However in comparable IP (Mo 60, Betancourt 62)…
RB gave up 9 hrs to Mo’s 2.
RB threw 11 wild pitches to Mo’s 0.
RB allowed 5% more runners to score.
RB allowed double the amount of runs (25 to 12)
But yeah…..WAR…..they really love those strikeouts. And that’s what’s most important for a closer right. Wrong.
Even though you’re not saying he should be paid his “baseball value” please….PLEASE…I am implore you not to use WAR to Dollars evaluations w/ regards to relief pitchers.
Mo w/ a 1.89 era, 0.83 whip, 6.8 SO/9, 1.7 BB/9, 6 H/9 and 78.5 LOB %
1.7 WAR = $6.7 mil dollar value
Rafael Betancourt w/ a 3.61 era, 0.96 whip, 13 SO/9, 11 BB/9, 7.5 H/9 and 73.5 LOB %
1.9 WAR = $7.5 dollar value
So basically they value Betancourt over Rivera more because Betancourt strikes out more. Great. However in comparable IP (Mo 60, Betancourt 62)…
RB gave up 9 hrs to Mo’s 2.
RB threw 11 wild pitches to Mo’s 0.
RB allowed 5% more runners to score.
RB allowed double the amount of runs (25 to 12)
But yeah…..WAR…..they really love those strikeouts. And that’s what’s most important for a closer right. Wrong.
Jeter’s value has nothimg to do with Rivera’s, never has. What Rivera brings to the table just about everytime out is basically a lights out performance . When you’re in contention every year it’s the difference between winning and losing. It was pretty much evident with Philadelphia and Lidge in ’09. Any team would pay for his services @ $15MM, so long as they wanted to win.
All this talk about value is just total BS, at best it’s silly fan conjecture. What a player’s real value is determined by the those that are willing to pay for the service.
My point is that Rivera is worth the $15MM he is said to be seeking, you’re the one who’s made the comparisions with Jeter and all the calculations. When Rivera gets the new contract, all this speculation is moot.
lol I’ve read a lot of comments like yours lately from yankees fans..
and while I full respect your right to your opinion..
I just find it funny that the greatest player for the yankees in the last quarter century is being ostracized as a ‘bad guy’ and unclassy for having contract demands…. What is he supposed to go cashman and say hey I know I’m Derek Jeter, and you overpay everyone, but give me 5 million a year on a one year deal… Its not like he plays for the orioles or tampa and wants an unfair pay.. he plays next to a guy who has half the heart but gets paid 33 million a year..
The yankees set the bar and now they should pay Derek accordingly. Don’t be so fickle, because for the last 10+ years you’ve done nothing but admire, respect and cheer for Jeter.