Yankees GM Brian Cashman says he intends to hold onto his 2011 first round draft choice, according to Chad Jennings of the Journal News. That means the team won’t sign any of the three remaining free agents tied to draft pick compensation: Rafael Soriano, Carl Pavano and Grant Balfour.
“I will not lose our No. 1 draft pick,” Cashman said. “I would have for Cliff Lee. I won’t lose our No. 1 draft pick for anyone else.”
Since Soriano, Pavano and Balfour turned down their teams’ offers of arbitration after being ranked as Type A free agents, clubs have to surrender a top 2011 pick to sign them. The Yankees’ first round pick (31st overall) is unprotected.
Though the Yankees were in contact with Soriano and agent Scott Boras, they are not pursuing him. It's hardly shocking to hear that the Yankees are out on Pavano, who spent four injury-plagued seasons in the Bronx and earned nearly $40MM in the process.
What’s taters, precious?
Well, I guess that means Boras is stuck trying to convince the Rays to sign-and-trade to a division rival…
this isn’t the nba, you cant trade a player until the middle of june. by that time every team will know the rays will need to get rid of him and offer little to nothing in return.
I think you can trade them but it requires a player’s permission.
You cannot sign and trade in baseball, period.
Except you can. Player has to agree to it. Braves did it with Soriano last year. Soriano couldn’t find a team that was willing to give up a 1st rnd pick so he agreed to sign with the Braves and be traded to the Rays.
V_V.
People are sure mis-informed.
You can trade a player at any time from the end of the previous year’s World Series up until the July 31st deadline without having to go through the waiver process. Deals usually don’t happen until around then because teams want to be sure they are still in the playoff hunt and the trade for said player/players will help the effort.
V_V.
People are sure mis-informed.
You can trade a player at any time from the end of the previous year’s World Series up until the July 31st deadline without having to go through the waiver process. Deals usually don’t happen until around then because teams want to be sure they are still in the playoff hunt and the trade for said player/players will help the effort.
What are you talking about?
Soriano ended up with Tampa as the result of a winter sign-and-trade.
Garza was just traded to the Cubs moments ago.
This is why Ca$hman needs to go. We give up on a player like Soriano; a young & proven talent who can help both now and tomorrow (face it, Mo can’t go forever) in favor of the 28th best amateur.
for real , why isnt he packing his suitcases now
Where’s your proof that Rivera can’t go forever? With some embalming fluid and a basic lever/pulley system, he should be good for a sub-1.00 WHIP long after he shuffles off his mortal coil.
If I remember correctly your beloved Phil Hughes was a late first round pick. Cashman is recognizing the trend in Starting Pitching, and that he won’t be able to sign any young starters anymore cause they’re all getting locked up.
Nobody loves phil hughes they tolerate him and cringe when he pitches
I really like Phil Hughes, so speak for yourself.
I also like Phil HUGE
Sure Dad.
i would not consider you a Yankee fan, you seem like the type of guy who supports the evil empire… True fans would like to keep and develop a farm, which first round draft picks are needed to do so.
the yankees are the evil empire arent they? , and come on they got small window to win one last time before jeter and mo skip go and head directly to hall of fame , and if this draft is so deep then there next pick should be good enough to develope into future talent , thats all i was saying
The Yankees’ window will never be small.
the yankees window isnt small no of course not but the yankees to win again with jeter and mo is small , see what mean
You really have no idea what you’re talking about, do you?
jeter and mo are getting old yes ? , so the yankees window isnt small but there window to win again is ? what about that doesnt work for you , so maybe you have no idea what im talking
You really have no idea what you’re talking about, do you?
Well that’s funny, because the Yankees ARE the evil empire.
that s what i said
no more than the Sox and Phils anymore…
true the redsox do have higher payroll now ,right, but they didnt buy everything in sight for a decade, but the phils arent that close are they , just because cliff lee wanted to come back to philly for less money , only makes them the evil empire to one team and that would be the yankees
Lee turned down more from Texas I believe, not the Yankees. And annually, if his vesting option goes through he makes more with Philly than in NY and in Texas.
Lee turned down more from Texas I believe, not the Yankees. And annually, if his vesting option goes through he makes more with Philly than in NY and in Texas.
you make it like Cliff Lee turned down so much money to go to Philly… He makes more money per year there then he would’ve in either of the other deals.
Also, that vesting option is HUGE and if the Phils turn it down, they have to pay him 12.5 million dollars to not be on their team.
less money, means less money not huge but less , thats what i meant and for a player to leave money is refreshing , and for a player to turn down the yankees is also a rare thing , considering the history and prestige of the pinstripes , thats all
“true the redsox do have higher payroll now”
Citation needed.
The Sox payroll is around what it was last year. Where did the Yankees cut $30M?
who did you get rid of , because crawford isnt free, gonzales a bargain at 8 mil a year jenks at six , sounds like an extra 30 mill a year to me
Everyone notsureifsrs mentioned and Julio Lugo’s $9M salary, too.
Everyone notsureifsrs mentioned and Julio Lugo’s $9M salary, too.
Vazquez, Jeter’s 4 million dollar pay cut, currently Pettitte’s 11.5 million…That is 28 million right there. And if you count Wood and Berkman it’s another 15 million. Swisher, Cano, Tex and Sabathia had their raises last year and Martin is being paid what, five million?
Actually Jeter got a 7 million paycut. He made $22 mil last year, he will be making $15 million in 2011.
Just what do you think the Yankee and Red Sox 2011 payroll obligation dollar amounts are? Are you repeating something you heard, or have you done the research?
i was repeating something i heard however i thought they were right and will never listen to espn again
The Red Sox have a little over 146 mill committed to next year after re-signing Okajima and with arbitration waiting for Papelbon and Ellsbury I believe. Lets assume Papebon get a raise to 12 mill, and Ellsbury in his first year get around 3, that puts them around 161 million.
As of right now the Yankees have 178 million committed, and that is before resigning Andy Pettite, or arbitration for Joba and Hughes.
The Yankees could potentially have 30-40 million more than the Red Sox by opening day.
yes i said stand corrected sir , my facts were clearly wrong and every red sox fan from mississippi to maine pointed that out but, thank you after all knowing is half the battle , can joba make less in arbitration , we all know he deserves it
Heh. Papelbon, too. But it ain’t gonna happen.
“Tolerate” him and cringe when he pitches? What planet are you from? I’m going to hope (and assume) that you were just being sarcastic because that comment was ridiculous.
Yeah man, I completely agree. This dude was pitching a CY Young season the first two months of the season as a full-time starter.
Sure he isn’t likely to repeat that, but if he puts up numbers comparable to Andy P. at millions upon millions less, then how is that something to cringe at?
his era was 4.19 last year very cringable
First full season as a starter in the bigs. 1st half: 11-2, 3.65 era, 1.18 whip. Did he implode/falter in the 2nd half? Sure. It’s easy to judge someone by their most recent performance, as you’re doing with the playoffs and the second half, but in no way do we ‘tolerate’ him. He will be a stud. Those first half stats weren’t just luck. Let me guess, you’re a phillies fan.
did the von hayes reference give it away , and agreed he will be good and did have an awesome start to last year , but come on tell me you didnt doubt him in the playoffs ,and i grew up in jersey so i got love for them both yanks and phills but the phills are my team always have always will ,
So the reason he is now labeled a ‘cringe’ pitcher is due to two bad postseason starts last year? Good sample size to make a judgment. Victorino and Utley are border line starters and definitely “cringable” according to that methodology, since they hit .216 and .212, respectively, in the playoffs. Just terrible. As witnessed by the high volume of posts countering your statements, I don’t think I need to say anymore. You do not pass go, and you do not collect $200.
they were all very biased yankees fans and it was based on the second half of last year after having such a lights out first half and then falling from grace so hard , yes it made me cringe a little to watch him pitch so poorly after the lights out start and yes i cringed when utley came up to bat because hes been pretty poor during playoffs , besides that time when he hit five solo shots , and if you read other posts i said i cringed when utley threw to first so clearly i can take a dash of truth unlike fans who cant take a little truth rubbed into there wounds so please give charles barkley back his catch phrase and thank you for using my monopoly reference
My “terrible” had an ‘I’ in it and I didn’t know that was your monopoly reference. Noted.
the queens english does escape sir charles , yes indeed
stats probably got worse because of what you said first year as big league starter probably just got tired. ok i take back the tolerate part , but dont you normally judge people on there recent achievements , kinda like what have you done for me lately , i dont know
cant forget all those playoff games he won too
Cringe when he pitches? Maybe cringe when he falls in love with his FB.
You gotta admit though, he did improve his fastball tons. Remember when he first came onto the scene, everyone and their mother was saying how his fastball is so straight and hittable.
And that guy with the cringe comment doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Yankee fans love Phil Hughes.
I’m all for saving the draft pick rather than signing a reliever. Sometimes the best course of action is no action.
It’s still a little bit too straight to be thrown almost 65% of the time. I blame that on Posada though. I would love to see him master the change and use his curve more often. ANd maybe even work the corners more with the FB. AND D@MN HIT SOMEONE!!!!
his 11 era in playoffs vs rangers made me cringe , and you can still like a guy and cringe when he pitches , he is improving i will give you that and he is young and has upside but dont mistake cringing for hating because thats not what i meant , take for example i cringe when chase utley throws the ball to first base alot of times and i think he’s money
You gotta admit though, he did improve his fastball tons. Remember when he first came onto the scene, everyone and their mother was saying how his fastball is so straight and hittable.
And that guy with the cringe comment doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Yankee fans love Phil Hughes.
I’m all for saving the draft pick rather than signing a reliever. Sometimes the best course of action is no action.
He would be much better 2011 if he worked on his change-up.
He would be much better 2011 if he worked on his change-up.
he throws it alot , albeit its good every 3rd or 4th but not every time , and he did improve last year , so maybe less cringing
Question? How did Hughes get his velocity back last year up to 95? Did he have hamstring issues before?
Question? How did Hughes get his velocity back last year up to 95? Did he have hamstring issues before?
Sir, you misspelled A.J. Burnett’s name. I can help with that spelling problem.
No one I know cringes when Phil pitches. We know how growing pains work.
Sir, you misspelled A.J. Burnett’s name. I can help with that spelling problem.
No one I know cringes when Phil pitches. We know how growing pains work.
It took them 5 years to develop Phil Hughes, they can’t wait 5 years. They need to win now because they are spending close to 200 million dollars on a veteran team.
They’re always going to be spending 200 million for a veteran team. That’s never going to change.
Ya it took 5 years to develop an 18 yr old pitching stud… I actually believe he came up in 2007 to the bigs where he was the second youngest player in the American League. Since he was drafted in ’04 I guess it only took him 3 years to be Major League ready…
He was 17 when they started developing him…Are you kidding me? He’s not even 25 yet.
2011 isn’t just any ordinary amateur draft. Word is the 50th overall pick is going to look more like 2010’s 10th overall pick. It’s the deepest and most talented class in quite some time.
And for that reason I would hate to be Rafael Soriano right now
He’s 31 (not young) and has a history of arm trouble. No GM should forfeit a first round pick for him. Should have accepted arbitration.
I like Soriano but let’s not call him young. He’s what, 31?
I think Cashman has done a fine job as GM but I think he’s overvaluing the 1st rnd pick. We have the 30th and 45th pick (somewhere around there) so we can still get a good pick.
All I have to say Cash is, you better not trade a top prospect (Warren, Noesi, Stoneburner) for a reliever this season or else you basically contradict yourself.
Stoneburner was quite a nice 14th round selection wasn’t he?
Yes he was. Think about it. Out of Betances (8th), Brackman (1st), Banuelos (FA), Warren (4th), Noesi (FA), Nova (FA), Ramires (FA), Stoneburner (14th) and Phelps (14th) obly one was a 1st rnd pick. That’s why I have a hard time being attached to this years 1st rnd pick, especially since it’s a deep draft and we have a sadwhich, a 2nd and a 3rd that we can probably get high risk/high reward gys.
I looked at the Royals top prospects and a lot of them were not even 1st rnd selections. It’s MORE difficult but not impossible to find 2nd and 3rd round treasures. There are maybe 4 to 5 guys that I felt were worth giving up a 1st rnd pick and that was Lee, CC, Beltre, Werth and Soriano.
Funny thing is, some of the same Yankee fans who were in favor of trading for Soria are against signing Soriano.
Soria = At least 3 top 10 prospects with Betances, Banuelos or Brackman probably being one of them.
Soriano = A 1st rnd pick and $$$$$$$$$
Which makes more sense? Is Soria going to make THAT much more of an impact over Soriano that he would be worth 3 scouted and developed prospects or more?
Yanks are unlike most teams in that the only real trade pieces we have are our prospects and maybe Gardner, Swisher or Grandy. Seeing as how we have ZERO replacements in our OF almost any improvements we make are going to be prospects. So how will Cashman improve the team w/o trading prospects and knowing that, I’d rather spend $$$$ and give up the pick and save as many prospect bullets as possible.
Stoneburner was quite a nice 14th round selection wasn’t he?
This is just plain foolish. To give up a 1st round pick for a reliever, and one with injury history, is not a bright move unless its a necessity. Having him is nothing more than a luxury. Giving up a 1st rounder for someone like Cliff Lee makes sense, but for Soriano, or pretty much any other reliever it doesn’t make a ton of long run sense.
I agree with you entirely. To give up a 1st round pick for a reliever — who overall has been fantastic but does have some injury history — is not a bright move unless it’s a necessity. But have you SEEN the yankees bullpen lately??
This is just plain foolish. To give up a 1st round pick for a reliever, and one with injury history, is not a bright move unless its a necessity. Having him is nothing more than a luxury. Giving up a 1st rounder for someone like Cliff Lee makes sense, but for Soriano, or pretty much any other reliever it doesn’t make a ton of long run sense.
He’s 31, it’s not like Cashman is passing on some dude headed into his prime. And he’s been a top notch reliever for one, maybe two years. Not to mention you say 28th best like there won’t be 20-30 million attached to this deal and the Yankees actually draft the 28th best player and not a player with huge upside who is too expensive or too injury prone to smaller market teams.
steinbrenner rolling over in grave , what ever happened to winning
Some key pieces that led to Steinbrenners most successful run were developed by the Yankees farm. Developed and drafted when the Yankees were an atrocious team and under Steinbrenner’s control.
Steinbrenner was still “banned from baseball for life” when the “core four” were drafted and being developed. That’s probably why they were not traded away for veteran talent.
Good job Cashman, Don’t play into Boras’ game. I respect you more for this.
This should give everyone an idea about how deep the 2011 draft will be.
I think they’ll draft someone better than these three will produce. only problem is that it is not sexy at all. i like the move
Soriano = Officially screwed.
So for real.. where does Soriano end up??
its got to be a team that has a protected pick and no closer..
They will get him for a bargain now, so money won’t be an issue..
Where do you people think he lands? Maybe a team like the Brewers or Braves?
He’s definitely signing just a one year deal in which case he probably would’ve been better off taking Arbitration.
Can he still go back to Tampa?
OF course.
Can he still go back to Tampa?
It must kill Cashman knowing that the Red Sox have 2 first rounders, 2 and possibly 3 sandwich picks, and their own second! ( kinda like having 5 first rounders when Lopez signs elewhere) Top this with the AGonz, Crawford, Jenks, and Wheeler acquisitions and ,yes, George is rolling in his grave right now!
Not when you’re sitting on a top 8 farm system and 95% of the team that won 95 games is returning.
1 year older though…
With the exception of Jeter, Arod, Posada….Gardner closer to prime years, Tex was battling injuries all year long and his numbers suffered. Cano should only improve. Swisher may regress because that was definitely a career year for him. Granderson had a huge late year surge and made corrections in his swing. Burnett can’t possibly be as awful as last year…only direction for him to go is up. Losing Pettitte will hurt. Combination of Montero/Martin should be better than Cervelli/Posada at catcher. Hughes will probably improve as well since he’s still young.
Not everything is exactly bad as everyone is making it seem for the Yankees.
Exactly, I really dont get why everyone has a boner for Soriano. He is 31 wants 10mil/yr has shoulder issues, was worth 1.6 WAR (for comparisons sake Joba was worth 1.4). He will only pitch ~80 innings next year so hes not going to make or break us being a playoff team. The effect of a setup man is marginal at best so I really dont get why Cashman should be fired, people are just redcockulous sometimes…
Exactly, I really dont get why everyone has a boner for Soriano. He is 31 wants 10mil/yr has shoulder issues, was worth 1.6 WAR (for comparisons sake Joba was worth 1.4). He will only pitch ~80 innings next year so hes not going to make or break us being a playoff team. The effect of a setup man is marginal at best so I really dont get why Cashman should be fired, people are just redcockulous sometimes…
With the exception of Jeter, Arod, Posada….Gardner closer to prime years, Tex was battling injuries all year long and his numbers suffered. Cano should only improve. Swisher may regress because that was definitely a career year for him. Granderson had a huge late year surge and made corrections in his swing. Burnett can’t possibly be as awful as last year…only direction for him to go is up. Losing Pettitte will hurt. Combination of Montero/Martin should be better than Cervelli/Posada at catcher. Hughes will probably improve as well since he’s still young.
Not everything is exactly bad as everyone is making it seem for the Yankees.
Every team is one year older
Not every team has that many critical players who just moved one year away from their prime.
Not every starting player is gonna be around for 10 years though. I and a lot of Yankee fans loved George but he signed a lot of players in the mid 30s to long deals where Hal and Cashman won’t do that. I think the Yankees will be better off in the long run with Hal in control people need to be patient. Not crazy about A-Rod or Jeters contract though but pretty soon maybe even by 2012 A-Rod will probably be the full time DH and Jeter will probably be playing LF. Cashman and Steinbrenner need to say listen we’re paying you the money we’re trying to improve the team in the long run and you’ll play where we tell you to play and thats that it just needs to happen. The Yankees are replacing a 39 year Posada with a 28 year old Martin who knows how that deal will turn out but I like the signing. Then the Yankees can sign a younger 3B or SS or bring up minor leaguers if they can fill the role they don’t need superstars just good ballplayers and the outfield will probably change and get younger in a few years cf and rf I’m talking about cuz Jeter will probably be in left even though Swish and Granderson will only be 30 next year thats not that old but in 3 or 4 years it will be time for them to go. Yankee fans can be grumpy or impatient but I’m not gonna be I try to always think postive. I like the direction the Yankees are going in a lot more then 5 or 6 years ago.
wholy schnickel fritz jeter in left field
Every team is one year older
Lopez won’t sign a major league deal thus the Sox won’t get a pick for him. The rest of the haul isn’t too bad though
I seriously doubt Lopez won’t find a major league deal.
Seriously? Yout think a team will sign him assuring a spot on the 25 man roster? Look around the league there aren’t many open spots as it is. He will sign a minor league deal wtih an invite to Spring Training. Will make a team out of SPring but because he signed the minor league deal there will be no compensation.
It must kill Cashman that the Red Sox have one of the worst farm system while the Yankees are a top 5.
And I wouldnt brag about signing Crawford to that contract. Its ridiculously bad. Red Sox are just trying to play catch up and the bottom half of their order is still garbage. Along with everyone in their rotation not named Lester and Buchholz.
While I do agree that RSD is a troll, I do find your comment about Crawford to be… well sour grapes. Yes he’s over paid but face it, that combination of skills is going to be deadly for several years. If you want to start saying his skills are going to diminish before the end of his contract then just let me remind you about the ridiculously paid Alex Rodriguez… that guy who will be paid $20M as a 42 year old.
I agree that Crawford is a great player. However, declining skills for Arod is 20-25 hrs. He had his worse 2 seasons in 2009 and 2010 and still came thru w/ clean up hitter production. In fact, Arod drove in a ton of runs despite only 30 hrs. Declining skills for Crawford means .290/.340 w 10-15 hrs and 15 SB. That’s not worth $20 mil per.
My point about Crawford is the the Red Sox have him signed during his peak years. ARod on the other hand is technically at an age where declining will start.
I understand. However, bring Arod into the conversation was your doing. No Yankee fan was trying to defend Arod or his contract in the first place. It seems IMPOSSIBLE to have an intelligent conversation about a Sox player w/o someone throwing up Arod or someone else (and vice versa w/ Sox fans talking about a Yankee) that isn’t relevant to the discussion.
But either way, it’s not difficult to imagine that if CC slows down any, Arod might be closer to a $20 mil player at 40-42 than he is at 35-36, especially if Arod doesn’t have to play the field.
Crawford is signed through age 35. How much do you think he’ll decline compared to ARod?
Oh, and speedsters age better. At least according to Tango and Cameron.
A troll? you’re sense of humor is actually getting worse here!
While I do agree that RSD is a troll, I do find your comment about Crawford to be… well sour grapes. Yes he’s over paid but face it, that combination of skills is going to be deadly for several years. If you want to start saying his skills are going to diminish before the end of his contract then just let me remind you about the ridiculously paid Alex Rodriguez… that guy who will be paid $20M as a 42 year old.
Wow, clear yankees fan, the Red Sox system is just a good as the yankees. And most of the yankees so called top prospects are in A ball, The crawford contract is not bad. Bottom half of order garbadge? 1. Ellsbury 2.Pedey 3.Crawford 4.Gonzalez 5.Youk 6.Ortiz 7.Drew 8. Scutero/Lowrie 9.salty/Tek, that is a heck lot better than the yankees lineup, And the yankees rotation is looking pretty good considering they have Lee, Oh Wait. The yankees are a average team right now. Arod, Jeter, Posada are all getting old, CC, Huge, and Texeria, keep getting bigger
Can somebody else please mention that the Yankees didn’t get Lee one more time so it will be an even million times that I’ve heard that tired old joke on here.
Wow, clear yankees fan, the Red Sox system is just a good as the yankees. And most of the yankees so called top prospects are in A ball, The crawford contract is not bad. Bottom half of order garbadge? 1. Ellsbury 2.Pedey 3.Crawford 4.Gonzalez 5.Youk 6.Ortiz 7.Drew 8. Scutero/Lowrie 9.salty/Tek, that is a heck lot better than the yankees lineup, And the yankees rotation is looking pretty good considering they have Lee, Oh Wait. The yankees are a average team right now. Arod, Jeter, Posada are all getting old, CC, Huge, and Texeria, keep getting bigger
What RedSoxDynasty said was just an unnecessary shot at the Yankees, but I think you may be overreacting. Now the Red Sox definitely do not have as good of a farm system as the Yankees anymore but you must remember that the Sox used some of their top prospects to acquire one of the best hitters in the game. The Yankees don’t have a top 5 farm system, definitely top 10, but not top 5. Also the Sox have a great deal of young talent in the lower levels in their farm system and in a few years if the players develop well then the Red Sox will have a shot at being right back in the top 10 farm systems in baseball.
The Crawford contract is an overpayment but you have to look at it this way. Every top flight player gets over payed and at the end of those contracts, every one of them maybe except a couple, will be regrettable. But teams look at what a player is going to do now and over the next couple of years the more than they look at what a player is going to do at the end of the contract. They realize they will just have to deal with whatever production happens in the end. But if the signing helps make the team one of the best in the game (which hasn’t happened yet but its looking that way) and gives them a shot to win the world series every year or mostly every year, I’d guarantee several teams would be willing to make those signings again.
As for the Sox having garbage at the end of their lineup, usually every team has garbage at the end of their lineup that’s why they bat 7-9. But the Sox 7-9 is Drew, Scutaro/Lowrie, and Salty which isn’t garbage. Most teams would love to be able to have that as the bottom of their order. With JD you probably looking at a .260 AVG with 20 homeruns and a guy who takes a lot of walks and works the count with really good defense. With Salty, pretty much no one is expecting him to be great but he could be good since he is playing in a hitters park, still has a bunch of potential (since he is only 25), gets to learn from Varitek, and is playing on a team surrounded by hitting talent that could help boost his numbers. Lowrie has a chance to be good if he stays healthy (several people predict he will hit around .280 with 20 homers with a healthy season) and Scutaro is solid.
Beckett and Lackey are question marks, not garbage. Lackey is expected to have a better season with indicators that show last season should have been better than it was. If Beckett and Dice-K are healthy Beckett may very well bounce back to the ace that he was before and Dice-K could be best 5th pitcher in baseball.
I would brag about signing Crawford. He’s a genuine athlete and will be productive for years. Only time will tell but I’m pretty sure Crawford will still be producing for the Sox when all 3 yankee outfield starters are playing backup for their hometown softball team.
Sorta like the Yanks rotation after CC is garbage and the yanks pen after Mo(who could drop off at any second)is also garbage. The Sox are stronger in every area than the Yanks who are returning an older, declining team that will be lucky to win the wild card while Bostons entire team is entering or in their prime. This is the biggest,albeit huge , difference between the two teams. And after the Sox use up to 5 first round/sandwich picks the farm will even be stronger!
And how are we playing catchup? We’ve passed your team on paper by a country mile!
Thank God the game isn’t played on paper. Also, and I wrote a whole thing about this before, the acquisitions of Agonz and Crawford are great in that you have guaranteed a probable sustained level of success vs what would’ve probably have been regression from one or both of Beltre and Martinez. However, the CUMULATIVE advantage over what Agonz + Crawford will produce over what Beltre, Martinez and Hall did in 2010 are about a wash except when it comes to SB.
If anything, the greater improvements will come from injured 2010 players being healthy this year and a slightly improved bullpen w/ Jenks in the pen.
I give the Sox the overall advantage because of the pen and the speed factor but in terms of pure hitting there’s nothing I fear about the Sox in 2011 vs 2010.
Let me start by stating i never want to get in a pissing war with you cuz you’re always respectful and knowledgable with your posts. i do fear and respect the yanks every year and i get ultra defensive when my posts get bashed by idiots on this board and i go over the top on their team cuz of their lack of respect. its tit-for-tat and while i wish i was bigger than that, i’m not! After the yanks got CC, Burnett, and swiped Tex from us, i knew we were in trouble for the next few years and this proved true as the yanks overtook us again and won a title! I see this offseason as a role reversal and i think this lineup for at least the next 3 years, will be devastating and better than the individual numbers these players have produced prior. Lots of patient hitters and high obp like the yank with power up and down the lineup. i believe the 1-3 of ells, pedroia, and cc will drive pitchers crazy with their obp and speed before agonz, youk, papi, etc come up and drive them home. Defense and the pen look to be very strong. Lester and Buchholz havent hit their primes yet and ,seriously, its easy for posters to bash lackey, beckett and dice-k but all 3 could easily win 15 or more next year without surprising anyone. This team really has no holes and the beltre/vmart comparisons dont work for me as beltre wont have a year like that again and crawford is a more dynamic offensive player than vmart. Add in that i could easily see agonz hitting 50 hrs and winning an mvp in fenway and u see where im coming from. the yanks shouls win the wild c ard and their farm is good but the Red Sox have set themselves up for quite the run in the next few years barring injuries!
No problems here dude. Just stating it as I see. The AGonz and CC moves will give you much more sustained production than those that left. The Sox are the team to beat but we are right on your heels buddy!! Happy New Year to you and yours.
Let me start by stating i never want to get in a pissing war with you cuz you’re always respectful and knowledgable with your posts. i do fear and respect the yanks every year and i get ultra defensive when my posts get bashed by idiots on this board and i go over the top on their team cuz of their lack of respect. its tit-for-tat and while i wish i was bigger than that, i’m not! After the yanks got CC, Burnett, and swiped Tex from us, i knew we were in trouble for the next few years and this proved true as the yanks overtook us again and won a title! I see this offseason as a role reversal and i think this lineup for at least the next 3 years, will be devastating and better than the individual numbers these players have produced prior. Lots of patient hitters and high obp like the yank with power up and down the lineup. i believe the 1-3 of ells, pedroia, and cc will drive pitchers crazy with their obp and speed before agonz, youk, papi, etc come up and drive them home. Defense and the pen look to be very strong. Lester and Buchholz havent hit their primes yet and ,seriously, its easy for posters to bash lackey, beckett and dice-k but all 3 could easily win 15 or more next year without surprising anyone. This team really has no holes and the beltre/vmart comparisons dont work for me as beltre wont have a year like that again and crawford is a more dynamic offensive player than vmart. Add in that i could easily see agonz hitting 50 hrs and winning an mvp in fenway and u see where im coming from. the yanks shouls win the wild c ard and their farm is good but the Red Sox have set themselves up for quite the run in the next few years barring injuries!
Agon and Crawford help, but Wheeler and Jenks are going to get lit up in the AL East and after Bucholz and Lester your Sox have all question marks and same applies in the bullpen after Bard
Dan Wheeler is going to get lit up in the AL East. Yeah… you’re right. He’s only been a quality reliever for the Rays for the last 3 years, but they’ve never been an AL East team. Wait…
As for the Sox rotation. I’d say we have far less question marks than the yanks. There’s Sabathia, the continued hope that Hughes will improve, Burnett *insert giggle*, the prayer that Nova will survive a full year in the AL East, and Mitre. So yeah… I’d call that a bunch of question marks.
This is why signing Soriano to a multi-year deal worth millions and giving up a draft pick is a bad idea:
Soriano 2010 WAR: 1.6
Chamberlain 2010 WAR: 1.4
Difference of 0.2 wins. You want to sacrifice a first round pick and potentially wasting millions over 0.2 wins.
You people really need to stop overvaluing relievers.
marginal cost is greater than the marginal benefit
while I agree with you..
Using WAR to compare relievers, using WAR when speaking of relievers is really not a good or accurate tool.
how so? Please back up your claims.
because a relievers job is to HOLD a win, not create one. Soriano has never come in to a game, pitched a 1-2-3 inning and then the rays magically one because of his awesome pitching performance…
Using…. last year mariano was a 1.7 WAR.. which is very similar to Chamberlains… was Mariano really only worth .1 more then joba??
man, is WAR the only thing you ever talk about?? Ok, you found 1 stat that supports your claim.
Soriana 2010 ERA: 1.73 WHIP: 0.80 ERA against BOS: 1.50
Chamberlain 2010 ERA: 4.40 WHIP: 1.30 ERA against BOS: 5.06
I can go on if you’d like…
We verse Boston 18/162 times in the year! If you build a team just to play Boston that is a horrible strategy. Who cares about them I am worried about the other 144 games in the season.
From watching the games last year, Joba single-handedly cost the Yankees at least 4 games when he self-imploded in the 8th inning giving up hit after hit after hit. Man when he was bad, he was downright awful.
They will just buy someone else down the road, always buying their way into the playoffs!
Because no other team bought anyone this off-season, right? I heard Crawford was going to donate all of his earnings back to the Red Sox organization and voluntarilly play for them instead.
Hey, maybe we can entice Hideki Irabu to come back. He is about the only old guy Cashman hasn’t tried this off season. What a pathetic hot stove year this has been.
He’s still waiting for the Clemens trial to be over.
are the Angels the only suitor? signing him might not make the offseason a complete wash, although it will be close
What exactly would you like him to close? He’s fairly expensive for a mop-up guy.
close was referring to the offseason…. aka if they signed him it would not be a complete wash, but close to a complete wash
I know what you were referring to… I was simply trying to point out that signing him at a closer’s rate would not be a step toward salvaging the Angels’ offseason, because they are further from contention than they were a year ago.
wow didnt realize he was that old , maybe i was wrong again
I know, right. People keep saying that ignorant statement.
The Yankees 2011 payroll for 13 players, including $4M for Kai Igawa, is around $178M. They still have to add the salaries of 12 more players plus the rest of the 40 man roster.
the question mark meant i was kinda asking if it was , and yes that is what i heard what is the redsox salary for this year
You didn’t use a question mark. You hardly use any syntax at all.
your right , sorry , wrong reply ,
I believe most of the numbers we use, stuff according to Cots, are for mlb contracts only. Does that include the 40 man? I don’t thinl so,IMO. Right now I have the Yanks at $185 mil for 23 of 25 guys on the 25 man roster and Marte and Igawa. Then I think you have Joba and Hughes as the only signifigant arb cases.
I regard Cashman as the best GM in the business, but I think this statement is beyond ignorant; its foolhardy. To outright declare that the barrier to consideration of a premiere F/A was his Type-A status and the surrendering of a 1st round draft pick is tantamount to setting up a negotiation war with the players’ association.
We will now embark on a battle to have every F/A negotiate an inability to offer arbitration to Type-A’s. I’m thoroughly against the legality of such a waiver clause. I think that every player must/should be capable of being offered arbitration.
There’s no doubt that this stupid proclamation will set the wheels in motion.
It’s marginal but we tried hard to turn Bruney into one, transformed Joba from a starter to a reliever, traded for Wood and tried to offer him $4 to $5 mil per to come back. 8th inning guys are sooooooooo overrated until you really need one.
Not entirely correct, but close. Cots has two sections per team, Majors and Minors. You’ll need to compare the 40-man to the Cots list to figure out which guys are under MILB contract, but are includible. I have not done any math or research to try and total either of the Yanks or BoSox payrolls yet, since things remain in a state of flux. I usually look at it for the first time on the day the teams break camp.
Thank you Cashman!!! A middle reliever won’t do much in the grand scheme of things, a first pick in this draft might.
You really are off base here dude. The official rankings aren’t out but it easily looks like the Yanks will be in the top 8 and the Sox in the 15-20 range.
Also, just using John Sickels ratings (because he’s pretty respected) for the Yanks, 8 out of his top 10 all played @ AA or higher last year and 13 out of 21 overall were above AA. Then you have Stoneburner who will probably start 2011 in AA too.
As for the lineup…..gotta call you out on that too.
Gardner, Jeter, Tex, Arod, Cano, Posada, Swisher, Granderson, Martin/Montero
vs
Ells, Pedroia, Craw, Agonz, Youks, Ortiz, Drew, Scutaro, Salty/Tek
We can all argue about the merits of 1-6 but the Yanks combo of Swisher, Granderson and Martin/Montero beats Drew, Scutaro and Salty/Tek easily. Our bottom three have the potential to account for at least 70 hrs and that’s being conservative with Swisher and Grandy accounting for 60 hrs and Martin for 10. Montero is a wild card and I don’t want to predict what he will or won’t do.
Don’t split the lineup up and say that bottom three is better then bottom three, a lineup is a lineup, the Sox lineup is much better, the sox have a better 1,2,3,4,maybe 5,6,maybe7, all the yankees have better is maybe 5, maybe 7, 8 and 9. There is noway the the 7,8,9 of the yankees lienup will hit 70Hr, not even close, probably 40
Swisher hit 29 last year and Granderson hit 24 last year. That’s 53 for just 2 of them. And you’re predicting the 3 combined is only a Probable 40?
Swisher and Granderson both aged, they both had fluke years last year
yeah they had fluke years their whole career
A fluke year is when a player does something completely unusual or completely above their normal production.
Swisher hit 29 hrs last year and he the same exact amount in 2009 and hit 35 in 2006, therefor his power wasn’t flukish. His OBP was .359 and he’s surpassed that on 3 other occasions. The bat avg was a career high and so was his BaBIP of .335. The question is, is that new improvement based on the work Kevin Long has done with him (keep in mind it was only his 2nd year w/ Long) or was it luck?
Granderson hit 6 fewer hrs last year than he did in 2009. It was also his worst year ever in just about every offensive category. So if you mean “flukish” as in he was unlucky and should improve maybe. If you mean it to say he was “lucky” to do that and we should expect less then you are out of your mind.
Look at career stats on Fangraphs and you will see that the Yanks have the better lineup! You can’t look at projection stats on Fangraphs or James they never come true!
Look at career stats on Fangraphs and you will see that the Yanks have the better lineup! You can’t look at projection stats on Fangraphs or James they never come true!
Last time the draft was almost as deep (2005), the Yankees picked #17!! With that pick they picked CJ Henry (.650 OPS in his minor league career) and with the 2nd rounder they picked James B. Cox (5.05 ERA in 2010 in A+/AA as a 26 yr old).
I wasn’t splitting the lineup. You were saying the Sox lineup was much better. I stated that 1-9 the Yanks lineup is deeper. Our #7-#9 hitters are good for 70 hrs and that’s not factoring in what Montero might do.
I like the speed in the Sox lineup with Ells and CC but I wouldn’t say they are clearly better.
Also, you declare….”Sox lineup is much better, the sox have a better 1,2,3,4,maybe 5,6,maybe7″ and then contradict yourself by saying “all the yankees have better is maybe 5, maybe 7, 8 and 9”.
Also, Arod, Jeter, Tex, Grandy and Posada all had down years. It’s not irrational to think those guys will perform well. Both Jeter and Arod had incredibly low BaBIP’s, Granderson learned how to hit lefties late in the year and went on a tear, Tex battled thru 3 different injuries and still hit 33 hrs and Posada hit 18 hrs w/ a .360 OBP in only 383 AB battling thru various injuries as a 39 yo C. Is it a jump to assume that as a fulltime DH he can hit 25 hrs w/ a .365 OBP?
And you totally ignored my comment about the whole “Sox farm is way better than the Yanks” arguement you were trying to make.
I said Sox lineup is much better, the sox have a better 1,2,3,4,maybe 5,6,maybe7, all the yankees have better is maybe 5, maybe 7, 8 and 9″. I am saying that i dont know who had a better 5 or 7, dont just assume something then come and post nonsence. Arod, Jeter, Tex, Grady, Posada all had down years because they are aging, dont expect them to do much better. If their was a poll, for fans of every team to take other then yankees and Red Sox, that was saying who had a better lineup, it would be the sox. I have no idea why you are even comparing the Yankees and Sox lineup, the sox just traded for and signed Crawford and Gonzales, that easily puts them ahead of the aging yankees.
Sox system is better because they have quanity over quality, most of the yankees prospects are over hyped, they are only in A ball. I mean come on.
I don’t know, maybe you ride the short yellow bus or something.
2011 impact of Agonz + Crawford vs Beltre + Martinez + Hall = More stolen bases and sustained long term projectable production. The most important important the Sox will see offensively is just guys being healthy.
John Sickles and most others say the Yanks have a top 5-10 system with the Sox having one somewhere below that. As mentioned earlier, 8 of the top 10 prospects are all at or above AA so why you keep saying they are all in A or below is beyond me. Feel free to check out minorleagueball for the breakdown.
I agree that most of the Red Sox offensive improvement will come from key players being healthy, but they did finish 2nd in HRs(behind Toronto), 2nd in SLG(behind Toronto), 1st in OPS and 2nd in runs scored(behind NYY).
Man, I hate Pavano so much.
This thread is a prime example of why I always take these “advanced metrics” with a grain of salt. Joba gave up 2 or more runs in an appearance 7 times this year. Soriano did it only twice, and Rivera did it 4 times (2 of them came in September when he was really struggling with mechanics).
When a starting pitcher is in a game, one bad inning doesn’t necessarily cripple the team because they can throw 5 or 6 good ones to even it out and allow the team to come back. When a relief pitcher appears for a few batters later in a game, a few bad pitches could put 3 or 4 runs on the board, but with only 1 or 2 innings to recover from it.
In the first half of last season, I had counted about 5 games in which his performance was so atrocious that it either cost the team the game or blew a lead that was so large that it likely would have been an easy win if they received even a mediocre performance in its place. That was easily the difference between first and second place in the AL East last year.
With small sample sizes the name, relief pitchers cannot be judged on things like xFIP and WAR, but on their consistency and reliability. When the whole stadium holds their breath every time he comes in, I don’t think you can mention him in the same name as Soriano.
It is a matter of how Damon Oppenheimer will use this pick… Go Third Baseman!
Yankees have 27 titles how many does the Red Sox have? and if i remember correctly the Red Sox tried to jump all over Arod when he opted out of his contract!
The Sox were lucky to avoid getting arod cuz we would have lost Manny and Lester for him! We also probably don’t win in 04and07 without Manny lighting it up! I hate defending this cuz Manny is not a good person whereas Arod seems like a decent, hardworking guy!