8:44pm: In a text message to Morosi, Bautista confirmed that the hearing has been rescheduled for Friday and the sides are talking about multiyear proposals.
6:48pm: Bautista's arbitration hearing has been postponed until Friday, tweets Morosi.
5:55pm: Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos has issued the following comment, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (via Twitter).
"Our arbitration hearing with Jose Bautista has been postponed to allow further negotiation between the player and the club," the GM said.
Meanwhile, Morosi also tweets that the slugger told him that he is still "very hopeful" about remaining in Toronto long term.
5:30pm: The Blue Jays are discussing a multiyear deal with Jose Bautista and have asked that his arbitration hearing be postponed until Friday, according to Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportes.com.
Bautista said last week that he would stop discussing long-term deals with the Blue Jays after his arbitration hearing, which had been scheduled for today. If the Blue Jays' request is granted, they will have four extra days to work out a deal with Bautista and his representatives at Proformance.
Bautista, one of five unsigned arbitration eligible players, filed for $10.5MM and the Blue Jays countered with $7.6MM, as our Arb Tracker shows. Bautista hit a major league-leading 54 homers last year and posted a .260/.378/.617 line for the Blue Jays. For more on his case click here.
Really? The last two months weren’t long enough?
Insert teacher voice here … why did you wait until the last minute Alex?
To see who budges. It’s a waiting game. It’s possible Bautista may have lowered his asking price and maybe negotiate in the middle or maybe he didn’t. Perhaps the Jays gave into his asking price.
Interesting nonetheless. I wouldn’t however commit too much money and term into this though until Bautista proves he is for real. Yes, I know he has a sweet swing and I am definitely expecting a regression like most people… but how much will that regression be? 40 homeruns? 30? 20?
I’d bet Bautista’s agency told him to wait this long to discuss, hoping to justify the huge asking price.
I think it’s less likely that AA gave in to his asking price. It’s the unbelievability of the season, and its likelihood to be repeated, that will drive the price down. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a solid 16-17M two-year deal. That way the Jays can evaluate his repeatability and have time to assess a newer long-term contract on more information.
35mil/4 years
doesn’t handicap them and two things can happen,
1. He’ll regress to a .750-.800 OPS with lots of walks and less dingers, and is still valuable because he’s versatile. And the yearly dollars will be such that the jays can swallow some coin in a trade in one of his last two years.
2. He’ll regress to a .800-.850 OPS and smash the cover off the ball to the delight of Jays fans and Alex Anthopolous, and he’ll be doing it for a good price.
Bautista’s agent is in the driver’s seat. It makes no difference how long they wait. Bottom line is Toronto is going to pay a lot of money. Sweet job dumping Wells so they can afford it.
Would love to see all the owners collude and pay no player a contract longer than 2 years.
He’s proven it. I know you’ve seen him play, and I don’t think you’re really that skeptical, but I’d really love one of these naysayers to explain just how it was possible for this “one hit wonder” to hit 54HR, draw a hundred walks, slug 600+. I don’t think 35 HR represents any sort of regression from 54, because 54 is such an unusual occurrence it can’t be considered a norm for anybody. From Sept 09 through the end of last season, Bautista’s been a power hitter, helped a little by playing in Rogers Centre. He’s changed his approach, and pitchers haven’t figured out how to deal with him. As long as he’s healthy, he’ll be productive. Usually a team pays for a player’s past performance. Here’s a chance to pay for future performance, for once.
I definitely think he is for real… but of course just because I think that doesn’t guarantee it 100%. I still think he is going to hit 30-35, perhaps even 40 bombs.
Interestingly enough, you say “pay for future performance” but that’s the thing… nobody knows what it’s going to be which is why they can’t come to an agreement.
Bautista can easily say yeah pay up, I am going to hit 40+ bombs and have an OBP of .350 and play solid defense + bring versatility. AA can say, how do we know you don’t just regress to your old self? Or even just a 20-25 HR guy?
I’d think 10-12 million on a 2-3 year contract + club options would be fine with me.
I think the fact that they’ve postponed the arb hearing and are talking means that they’re going to come to an agreement, or at least that they both have that intention. Of course, nobody knows what’s going to happen. AA isn’t going to say “How do we know you won’t regress to your old self?” since he’s already said he believes Bautista made some real changes, and is a valuable player whom he wants to keep. In my view, he’s as valuable as Werth, so signing him to a deal that’s vastly more reasonable than Werth’s and yet takes care of the player and his family for the rest of their lives is a win for both sides. I think they’ll guarantee him 3 years with a team option for a 4th. Maybe 30-33M for 3, plus a 4th at 15M or so. He’s a versatile player who’ll be able (baring injury) to make a significant contribution over the next 3-4 years. Yes, there’s risk, but a deal like that wouldn’t be onerous if it doesn’t pan out. After the season, he might be looking at a Werth-like deal, and the Jays wouldn’t likely be interested. And then everybody’d complain about that.
You’re right. He changed and became a different player, but still, why do we have to rush to a contract when we can still wait out another season, see how he performs, then pay him? Sure he’ll cost a lot more, but there’s less risk involved and we have freed-up money available. Signing him now just seems unnecessarily risky, unless its a complete bargain.
Well, I think it will be a bargain compared to what he’ll cost after the season. Obviously, there’s risk involved for the team, but also for the player. He has a chance for a contract that will take care of him and his family for the rest of his life, although it won’t be a ridiculous contract like Werth’s. The team has a chance to sign a player who, if he performs well this season (as I think he will), may well get the opportunity to sign a ridiculous contract like Werth’s. I think the risk is, like with any contract, that the player will be injured. I think the risk of Bautista becoming an average or below average player again is minimal.
I like Bautista, but Do NOT commit huge dollars to Jose. One trememdous season AA.
ONE!
As a Jays fan, I’d love to see Bautista signed to a reasonable extension that doesn’t screw over the payroll. I know his season came out of nowhere, but man… he was unbelievable to watch last year.
If AA can work out a decent deal, then I think it’s worth the risk.
it’ll be really interesting to hear what numbers are being thrown around for this extension. there really is no comparable.
While you’re at it, why don’t you give MC Hammer a contract? Talk about one-hit-wonders…He’ll maybe hit 25 home runs this year…MAYBE.
Yes, I am sure you know better than Alex Anthopholus.
It’s such old hat to hear this. Heard it in September ’09, Spring Training ’10, and every week of the season in ’10. 54 home runs was a freak number, of course, but anybody who watched Bautista regularly would argue that he’ll likely be a very productive player in the years to come. He can be locked into a mid-term deal right now at a reasonable price – I say do it.
If you get him on a reasonable 3 year deal, what is wrong with 25 homeruns from a guy that can get on base and play multiple positions?
3 years 30 million. I think that it is fair for both sides. Bautista gets paid very good money for 3 years and if he doesn’t work out as good its only 3 years at 10 million a year so it won’t hurt too too much.
I’m cool with 35-40/4yrs.
The Jays can afford to take this risk, and it’s not going to handicap them financially.
i think a 3 year 33 mill at like 8 10 15 wouldn`t hamstring jays long term. even with a 30 hr season Joey Batts would get well over that
it was hard to not fall in love with bautista after last season – every expert on here can pass out their opinion that an extension is a really stupid idea, but i’ll be happy if he’s extended, and we’ll see…that’s it.my money’s on a .900 OPS season next year, his plate discipline is just too ridiculously good to regress back to a 90+ OPS player.
Extend him for what he did to the Yankees alone.
Hit a HR, then got buzzed, then smashed a HR to go ahead 2-1, with the most assbad staredown of a pitcher. Ever.
That was straight up G
It’s not like Jose and his agent are also 100% that he’s going to repeat his performance… If he passes on a multi-year and gets hurt, there won’t be any guaranteed money still on the table. I like his bat, his intensity and he has a high ball IQ. I personally think he repeats in 2011, but I also think AA will lock him up with a deal palatable to most fans. I’m thinking 2 years, at 11 per, and a club option for 15 in 2013.
Congratulations Blue Jays. You got yourself out of one big mess and about to plop into even a bigger one. Pay the guy big bucks for one fluke season. Oh well, not my problem.
just shut up!
Are you 12? Sticks and stones……
pot, kettle
kettle, pot
whats more sad , the fact that I am 12, or the fact that i just shut you up? honestly man jokes aside no jays fan wants to hear that nonsense. we are a positive team going the right direction , we don’t need your negativity. thanks!
If you get this excited as a 12 year old about Bautista, wait until you discover girls.
dude turn up your sarcasm radar and refer back to my first comment. thanks .
Jump to conclusions much?
You don’t even know what the numbers of the possible deal are. It is only a mess if you over-commit. A multi-year deal in and of itself is not bad…even someone like Johnny Mac has received a multi-year deal recently.
You simply cannot compare Wells to Bautista. Nowhere near that kind of money would ever be committed to Bautista by the Jays.
And really, the payroll is so low right now that it is actually a ripe time to lock up one of the few senior, star players whose benefits range from marketing opportunities to field versatility.
Jo-Bau has bounced around long enough to understand that the money sitting on the table is too important to him right now. He could easily suffer an injury (nagging or not) in spring training and the whole 2011 season could goes down the toilet. Look for Jo-Bau to take the money on the table. He can always say he is a team guy, loyal, like the direction of this team crap, but the reality is that you have got to take the money while it is still there. Look for a 3-4 yr deal with team/player option tag onto the end. If it is a guy who has already made 20-25M in his career, then it may make sense to go for the broke and become a FA at the end of the season. Jo-Bau is so far a one yr wonder, even himself honestly does not know how his number would look at the end of the 2011 season.
I would much rather for Jo-Bau to repeat his great 2010 season, and the Jays trade him at the deadline for 2 solid positional blue-chip prospects.
That is a terrible thought. If he’s to repeat his 2010 season, I’d MUCH rather have him here long term than 2 prospects, because he’d be showing it was no fluke.
I think a 2 year/$20MM contract w/ a club option for $15MM and a player option for $8MM is pretty reasonable, because even if he regressed, he’d still be worth about $6-7MM per year as a veteran with 20HR power. But the fact is, after his last season, he’s gonna want at least $10MM per, guaranteed, with options that push it up to $50 or $60MM. Like I always say, no matter who wins this, somebody loses.
I think this is AA taking as long as possible to sign a 3rd baseman to get Jose back to right field. Now that they dont have an option AA may be inclined to offer him a decent contract or tell him they are willing to give him his arbitration number. I dont think this is a bad move in anyway..and shouldnt affect the negotiations negitively for the Blue Jays
I don’t think giving him his number on a one year deal, just to risk watching him walk at the end of the year would make very good business sense. If you’re in a position only to get the one year, might as well roll the dice. Sure it would be a nice thing to do, but by that logic it would be much nicer to give him his ask, and give me the rest… kind of spread the money wealth around, while we’re just handing it out like a valentine to his sweet heart.
I think something along the lines of 3 years/25-27 millions is fair enough. If Bautista wants more money then put an option or incentives in the deal.
Give Bautista what he wants. He’s the only star we have left on the Jays. If it wasn’t for his homerun record last year, we wouldn’t have had anything interesting to cheer for. Besides, he is a really good outfielder-third baseman. And, while you’re at it, throw in the Toronto Maple Leafs as a bonus. I’m sure he’d get a kick out of that.
This is the type of thinking that leads to horrible decisions.
It would be nice to get him for less but AA better get him signed.
“we wouldn’t have had anything interesting to cheer for”
Yeah, that one-hit complete game shutout by Brandon Morrow with 17 strikeouts, total garbage.
He still has to prove himself, he had some terrible outings too.
because bautista has a looooong track record of success right?
so did halladay
Bautista is a one hit wonder!
more like 54 hits wonder, amirite?
hater
I wish that you weren’t allowed to speak.
Hahahahaha, you’re funny.
mistake. smh.
do you think Bautista is going to be willing to sign for multiple seasons for less than $7.6 MIL one year deal the Jays offered?
3 years, $21 MIL. that’s $7 MIL a season, he should be plenty happy with that based on his career numbers.
IMO even that is a stretch. it should be between $5 and $7 MIL a season, preferably 2 years with a 3rd year team option.
good luck getting him to accept less money in his FA years than he’s guaranteed in arbitration…thats one of the dumbest things ive read on here
that would be $21 MIL guaranteed. or he could do the arbitration for 1 year, then if he regresses back to the level he had pre 2010 he takes chance at getting even less than that $7 MIL a season.
that’s why the Jays should wait and see what Bautista is doing during the 2011 season. and this deadline he came up with is ridiculous and just a strategy to try and get the Jays to give in. looks like it’s working.
you know nothing of this situation , stop with the assumptions that the Jays gave in, what a crock, for all you know theyve been trying to sign him the whole time and Bautista’s camp gave in and lowered demands? ya there is 2 sides to the story , dont assume.
delete.
If red sox keep beltre they could trade for young
If swans trade for ducks they could play duck duck goose.
relevant
AA won’t just shell out money. he will most likely give Jose 3 years for about 24-27M. then add on team options for the next 2 seasons for 12-14M a season. or he could go the incentive route where he gets 21M guarantee and can get an extra 2mil a season based upon HR’s/OBP/RBI’s.
AA knows if anything he will at least get Jose to sign a 1 year deal and if things don’t pan out by trade deadline he might be traded. In AA we trust.
3/27 is way too much for Jose. I think AA is making a mistake trying to sign him long term.
How can you say 3/27 is “way too much” after the guy hit 54 bombs? It could be an absolute steal at that price. That’s the whole point – nobody really knows.
The collective bargaining agreement disallows any incentive contracts to be based performance stats like HR, RBI, OPS, ERA, etc. Only things like ABs, PAs, IP, GP, GS, etc. are eligible.
These are absolute jokes of contracts you guys are thinking. The deal will be no less than 3 years 35 million. With options putting it up to 5 years 65 million. Look at all the contracts AA has done to this poiint. Most of them are built around acheivable vesting options. 3 years and 21 million?!? what a friggin joke. The Jays offered more than that for arbitration. Absolute idiotic statements. You guys need to see the writing on the wall here. My guess, 9, 12, 14 plus options for 15 and 15.
tbf, there aren’t many saying 3/21.
WOW!!! Did I call it, or did I call it??? 5 years and 65 million on the nose! It must be a gift! 🙂
I wouldn’t jump the gun on Bautista, his career average is .244 and he has 114 HRs for career. I would not give him a long term contract until he has one more good year. He had half his career HRs last year. By losing Wells I think it will hurt him this year. I don’t see the Jays scoring the way they did last year.
Yeah, but it’s a little unfair to compare Bautista’s year to his entire career. Perhaps if he’d been a full-time player instead of one of those bounce-around bench types.
Bautista undoubtedly has power, was given the certainty a full-time role in 2010, and had the benefit of a couple of excellent hitting coaches in Murphy and Cito. People get too caught up in the 54 bombs; perhaps a better question is whether any Jays fan who saw Bautista in 2010 can really see him having a Lind-like drop-off in 2011. I know I can’t.
HGH?
HGH doesn’t turn a player into Robocop.
wat
Yeah, HGH gives you the uncanny ability to lay off pitches outside and down, and draw a hundred walks. It causes pitchers to come into your wheelhouse because they can’t get you out with junk away anymore. It also makes you grow, and you’ve no doubt noticed how much bigger Bautista became last year, right?
and only one of those walks was intentional i believe. he could walk 150 times this year if the jays dont find someone to hit behind him
You’re implying that last year, teams would rather pitch to Bautista than to Wells, and now there’s no Wells, so they won’t pitch to Bautista. Yeah, there weren’t many intentional walks, but there were plenty of disguised intentional walks. And I think there are plenty of Jays hitters who will offer as much “protection” as Wells did. Eventually, I think it’ll be Snider hitting behind him.
Jayson Werth was overpaid. He hit 27 HR and 85 RBI. Those are numbers we could see Bautista regressing to. He’s getting $18 million a year.
In light of that, I would think $11-12, maybe even 13 million a year would be a great price for Bautista. If he hits 27 and 85, we’re still getting good market value, but if he is the real deal that’s a huge bargain.
And for all of you multi-year deal people at less than 9 million a year, you’re crazy.
and that sums up everything nicely.
I’m thinking 4 years, 50 mill. Team option for fifth year.
what the problem is that we don’t really need bautista right now, and by the time we actually need a RF/3B slugger he would probably regress
Not sure about that. Outfielders have a bit more room for regression than other positions, and Bautista still has his age 30, 31, 32, 33 seasons ahead of him. On top of that, he doesn’t have a body type that is prone to regress.
i dunno, his swing kinda scares me. That kind of rotation at that speed cannot be good for your waist/hip/torso. but thats just me.
and yes, i see that there’s room for regression, but we don’t even know how well he’ll hit at the moment. is he a .750 OPS or a .900 OPS? Some might say .750 OPS is unrealistic, but its definitely a possibility.
There’s no reason to risk signing a .750OPS player to a long term deal, especially if you still have one more year to look at his performance
3 years 30 million. 7.5, 10, club option 12.5. I would try to make the last year a club option. I wouldn’t give Bautista more then 3 years 30 million guaranteed though.
I agree with @jaysbooster, there is NO WAY 3/21 is going to fly. If I am Bautista’s agent I tell AA to take a hike and I am rolling the dice at that offer. True there are no real comparables but look at what the Nationals overpaid for in Werth, who had 3 really good seasons and signed for 7 yrs/126m (at an older age then JB will be at free agency). I don’t think anything less than 4/50m gets it done
If he would accept that, the deal would have happened already.
Right now his agent can claim that his client is the best option at third base and right field, there is a huge market for that type of player…could net a huge return near the deadline.
he has power ability. I think he’s more likely to be closer to 20 HR in 2011.
it’s not just that he is getting more AB that gives him more HR, his HR/FB was crazy high in 2010 as well.
2010- 21.7%
2009- 12.3 %
2008- 13.8 %
he also had a career high FB%.
2010- 54.5%
2009- 42.1%
2008- 38.8%
even if he can continue the FB% which was a career high, it’s unlikely he can continue the HR/FB. I think it’s more likely to cut his HR in half. closer to 20-25 HR is what I would see in 2011. not bad, but do you really want to pay $10+ MIL a season for that?
then add in that he also had a career high .260 AVG that is unlikely to continue as well. now of course there is the OBP which counts in walks which Bautista is good at, but all a walk does is put the player on 1st and does nothing else with any other potential runners on base. AVG still tells the type of “Hitter” you are.
.250 AVG with 20-25 HR are not THAT special, and not what I would want to overpay for.
hell Juan Rivera could do that.
i think thats underselling him a bit. Most agree he’s at least a 30 HR guy, and he walks much more than Rivera and has slightly better defence.
You shouldn’t look at OBP as moving a guy from first to second, the point is that outs are reduced.
Bautista can be a good-great player, but he could also be a slightly better Rivera. I don’t get why we’re risking paying for the latter when we can afford to wait and see how he produces
He probably can’t maintain that HR/FB, but there’s no reason why someone who hit like 30 no doubters can’t maintain a high HR/FB. It actually seems pretty likely, as long as he can adjust to the way he’s going to get pitched.
2006- 11.3% HR/FB, in his true rookie season. Learning on the fly in Pittsburgh. Showed some pop, got another chance.
2007- 6.7%, definitely struggled with learning to adjust.
2008- 11.1% (baseball-reference? total season split team stats), start of the platoon and then fade out, then traded, still showed some pop.
2009- 10.3%, platooned most of the season, started playing in August, starting hitting bombs in September.
2010- 21.9%!!, tough to repeat, but 15% isn’t hard to imagine. Seeing him take a 50% cut in homers is harder to imagine.
Maybe something like 3/38MIL and some club options worth around 12-15 MIL per could be pretty fair
Doubt the Jays are going to jump from 7.6 MM to anything close to 15 MM a year. But bring up those random numbers.
I don’t think his numbers are that random if you take into consideration the fact that the Jays are offering him $7.6 million for a year where he is still under control (does not have the option to find the highest bidder) and has only had one good reason. The BJs know that if Bautista has another good season (let’s say 30HR 100 RBI and 400+ OBP) he will probably be able to get at least $16 to $18 mil per on the open market, so the offer is probably going to be something like the average of $9 mil (approximate half way point between their arbitration numbers), for his last year of control, and I would guess $12 or $13 mil per year for the free agency years that are bought out, the latter would represent a compromise between the out $16 to $18 mil he could be worth if things go well this year, or the $7 to $9 he’d be worth if he had an off season (let’s say $18 HR, 60 RBI, 350 OBP….I don’t think his production can drop below these numbers over 600 AB), keeping in mind that even if he had an off year people wouldn’t completely discount his one big year and defensive flexibility. The key would be the length of the contract because I get a feeling AA is weary of signing guys to contracts that will keep them around till they are 35+ years old. I would guess that a 4 year contract might suit both sides. Gives Bautista some security for his family and still allows the Jays to trade him for value (prospects) at the end of the deal, where he’d be approaching 34 years old. So my (calculated) random guess is 4 years and $46.0 (9 + 3 X 12.5 rounded down) with an option for a 5th year that the Jays would have to buy out for something like $2 mil. The Jays have no reason to backload the deal (since the payroll burden is lower right now than it will be in future), so I figure 4 years at $11.5 per and $13 mil or a $2 mil buyout for the 5th year….meaning 4 years and $48 mil guaranteed.
As a fan, I hope it’s not more than 4 years and $52
I don’t mind that there’s a multiyear deal, but why is it happening now? Why not wait until midseason or end of the season? If bautista starts off hot, there’s no way he rejects a multiyear offer at midseason.
I think if he starts off hot again like last season he will lean towards rejecting because then he would want a bigger contract and would likely test free agency. They’re talking now because he may want some security over risking getting injured and then settling for a 1/5MIL contract as a “Show me you can do it again” contract. Same for the Jays they want to settle at a reasonable price that benefits both parties as much as possible?
this is actually the exact thing Bautista and his agent want to avoid. They want to lock up money now.
Ummm, it’s happening now because Bautista told them he would not negotiate during the season?
do people really believe that? how many times are these deadlines made and then broken?
Bautista said he wants to remain with the Jays. go into 2011 and if he is producing you offer him a good contract. doubt he says no sorry I’m not negotiating anymore.
the reason he made this deadline now is to try and get as much money guaranteed while his value is higher than it ever will be again. can’t blame him. looks like the Jays are caving. smh.
I’m say saying that Bautista’s camp meant to follow throw with their threat, just that it’s what kickstarted these talks again. We heard nothing at all till Friday, and clearly they’ve been talking since then at least.
Talky thing isn’t he. The deadline did the trick though, seems AA was hoping to get some reassurance before trying to extend him during the season. It became pay for the risk at the moment for a discount or pay market value whatever it may be at the end of the season. This would have made him trade bait mid season. Perhaps AA has decided to see if they can get him for something reasonable right now since a post season extension seems unlikely and worst cause scenario he is trade bait again.
I imagine they will only get a good discount for the first couple years if they give him an opt out clause or a lot of gauranteed years since he is going to want a fair amount of gauranteed money.
Meh, I would just agree to one year with him and let him rob another team in free agency.
In a related story, the Cardinals are now trying to postpone the start of Spring Training until June so that they can continue to work on Pujols’ extension.
Flash….in…..the…..pan. Blue Jays are 4th-5th place at best. Congratulations, the Orioles just passed you. Now that’s sorry.