Twins officials are open to the idea of trading Francisco Liriano, according to Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. Liriano, who avoided arbitration with the Twins on the weekend, is on track to hit free agency after the 2012 season if Minnesota doesn't lock him up long-term.
The Twins don’t plan to sign Liriano to an extension, according to Christensen. Long-term talks “went nowhere” and Liriano hinted at a three-year, $39MM extension when the sides discussed a deal, according to Christensen.
There would be demand for the left-hander if the Twins made him available. Liriano posted a 3.62 ERA with 9.4 K/9 and 2.7 BB/9 in 191 2/3 innings last year. He appears to have recovered completely from Tommy John surgery and makes just $4.3MM in 2011.
If Liriano repeats what he did last season or in better for the next 2 years he’ll definately be getting paid somewhere. He’s still maturing and once he fully matures he’s going to be one of the top lefties in the game.
I tell you the Twins are always good for growing good players and sending them on their way to a team that might win something.
You mean like how they sent Santana to the Mets?
right cuz Santana has taken the Mets to great places!
Check his stats. It’s hard for someone who plays the game one day out of five to “take a team to great places.” However, he’s done more than his share.
Agreed, but that’s what Mets fans expected. They thought he was the missing piece. I believe Santana has held up his part of the bargain. I think it’s odd when people slam him. He’s not as good as he was with the Twins, but he’s still good. I’d still take him over most pitchers.
I wouldn’t take him first like I would have in the past though.
Santana needs to find a way to stay healthy to prove he’s “held up his part of the bargain.” He still is under contract for the Mets, so, he still has work to do by staying on the field.
It’s not like he’s purposely injuring himself. When he’s healthy, he’s good. The Mets are the one who paid him that contract. They had to know it would come with injury risks when they offered it. Santana was pretty much injury free for the Twins. I can’t even think of one injury, though I’m sure there probably was.
Not many players go without injury their whole career, so they had to see it coming.
Also, that suspect Mets medical staff doesn’t help.
are you serious since coming to the mets he has never had an ERA over 3.13, his k/9 has stayed consisten and his bb/9 has never gone over 2.49/9 while his hr/9 has been .88, 1.08 and.72/9 the three seasons with them he has gotten 12 WAR in 3 seasons with them and his WHIP with the mets has never been over 1.21….and considering they amazing players they gave up(sarcasm) he has been well worth it…
dont forget in his first year with the mets he should have won the cy young and did everything in his power to prevent another collapse including pitching a complete game shutout on three days rest. Minya ruind the mets with bad contracts and not signing first round picks and just bad drafting just like thomas ruined the knicks
I think a lot of yankees fans would disagree with you there. A ace pitcher can very much be the difference between winning and losing. If Liriano were an FA the yanks would dump as much $$ as possible to add him to their exceedingly weak starting 5.
You have to know when to let someone go. I do not want to see the Twins spend big money on Liriano. The Twins do not win with big name pitchers. I would rather see the money spent on offense.
I agree for now. While i would love to see liriano in minnesota 39mill for 3yrs was a little much. If he has another good year then i think they will try the same deal and if he rejects he will be traded for a package of prospects. The twins need an ace because most of our minor league pitchers are 3-5 type starters with the exception of Gibson who is projected to be a number two with ace portentional
That thought process has made the twins first round fodder on an annual basis. An “Offense first” mindset can win you a weak division, but won’t last in a 5 game series against the big boys.
I feel like they haven’t been this way for long. I remember the pre-M&M days when they couldn’t get any runs. They relied on Santana and guys like pre-Tommy Liriano and Radke, and they still had playoff teams then – albeit usually ALDS losers. The fact is that it’s hard to compete with the Yankees (usually their first round opponent) when your payroll is only a fraction of what they have. The payroll has risen lately, but the mindset necessarily remains that of a small (maybe medium?) market club trying to compete with the East coast powerhouses. I’m not crying about the same old payroll issue here, but it has too be acknowledged if you are talking about their thought process making them losers. If they let Liriano go, it will be to save money in the long run whil reloading with some youngsters; it will not be a shrewd move by a brilliant GM, it will be a scuffling move by a necessarily thrifty GM.
But they’ve kept Mauer, Morneau, Cuddy…
Santana was really the only exception, and he kind of forced their hand because of the financial obligation he would require.
Dealing Santana freed up the money to sign Joe Mauer, I think the twins made the right choice there.
I agree, but, that wasn’t my point, nor the original one I was responding to. That’s like me saying to you “Yeah but Santana loves chocolate cake.” lol
Santana and Hunter are the posterboys of “The Twins Don’t Keep Talent”.
Morneau, Cuddyer, Nathan, and Mauer are the counter-examples.
How are the contracts that hunter and santana signed working out. Hunter still has what three years counting this one and 45 mil left. and santana has 5 counting this year and somewhere around 100 mil left. The twins dont keep talent statement is not completly true. At the time they could not afford those contracts. It seems to me that maybe they saw something in those two players that didnt justify the money it would cost to keep them and i would say they were right
I think you missed TwinsVet’s second statement…?
He listed examples of players that have been shipped out AND players that have been prioritized & retained.
Paging Cashman
Paging Brian Cashman
Solid lefty in isle 5!
haha, when I saw his headline I thought the very same.
What do you Yankee Bastards (Seinfeld reference) have to offer us for K-Lir? Let’s hear some trade proposals.
Haha…I’m usually not into specific trade proposal convos, but I like your style with the Seinfeld reference.
One of the Yanks’ biggest trading assets is their depth of young catching. Obviously, the Twins are one of the few teams in baseball who are 100% set at catcher for now and the foreseeable future. So, if say, Montero was included, it’d pretty much be as a definite DH (or OF as a longshot), so his trading value wouldn’t be maximized if the Yanks were so inclined to trade him by sending him to Minny.
The Yanks’ other biggest asset is minor league starting pitching. I gotta think this would be the basis of any such deal for Liriano. Perhaps Banuelos or Betances (probably not both), Noesi, and a utility player with the upside to be a decent starter in Eduardo Nunez. Perhaps someone like a Brandon Laird as well, who has some nice upside but no real place on the Yanks. Of course, if the Twins wanted one of the Yanks’ catchers for whatever reason, they’d come into the conversation as well.
I think it’s really obnoxious when fans overvalue their own prospects…so let me know, is this objectively in the realm of fair?
Banuelos/Betances + Nunez + Warren/Mitchell + a more raw further away from the majors guy like Jose Ramirez?
I don’t know if I’d be comfortable throwing Noesi in there with that package, i’d be more comfortable with throwing in Adam Warren or DJ Mitchell instead.
I think most would say there’s more than a slight difference between Adam Warren and DJ Mitchell. I like Mitchell, but most see him as a #5 or bullpen guy.
Adam Warren projects only to be a #4/#5 guy too, but I didn’t mean to imply they were equal. I think either of them included in that package would constitute a fair deal.
I think the Twins would take Montero if he can hit as well as people say he can. Joe Mauer is not always 100% healthy so it doesn’t hurt to have a backup catcher and a DH, you’d have to throw Joba in as well and possibly another Pitching prospect.
Perhaps Banuelos or Betances (probably not both), Noesi, and a utility player with the upside to be a decent starter in Eduardo Nunez.
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Sub out David Adams for Nunez and you are reading my mind.
I think they would have to include Hughes since the twins have been after him since santana and there were rumors of a hughes/span trade last winter. I dont think they would trade for montero (not saying they wouldnt like to have him) unless they are going to do a rotaion of 1b/c/DH with morneau/mauer/montero. With monetero filling in the open postion of those three for any given game. Twins would want probably 3 pitchers in return
Throwing in hughes doesn’t solve yankees starting pitching problems…the yankees aren’t really in a place to be upgrading their “solid” starters, but rather, need to fill up the other holes in the rotation.
Yeah Hughes would not be involved. Maybe Joba if the Twins like him but not Hughes. Doesn’t make the rotation deeper.
im saying thats what the twins would request in return from them. and i dont think they like joba. im not sure many teams are as high on him as before the yankees tried him as a starter
If I were the Yankees, I’d be a little reluctant. I mean, there has to be some reason they want to trade him, and if its health related, then I’d pass.
I would think it’s largely money related?
Aisle 5 has cleaning supplies and home goods though.
anhd you who Smith is going to want ? Try Betances and Banulous. He won’t want Montero since they have Mauer. And I ain’t giving them up for anyone not named King Felix.
He CAN pitch!
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B. Cashman
What about me? I thought I solved the pitching problems for you guys
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B. Colon
I can pitch too. See I can pitch! I just threw a perfect game in MLB: ’10 The Show!
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M. Prior
The Rangers are trying to get rid of Michael Young and they need another guy who could contribute to the top of the rotation. Also I’ve heard that the Twins were asking about Young. Why not eat some of the Young contract and go out and get a guy like Liriano for him?
Rangers would definitely have to give more than just eating the contract, perhaps a prospect like Jurickson Profar. But something starting with those two and expanding doesn’t seem completely out of the realm of possibility.
The Twins better bring home more than Young and Profar for Liriano. Young is NOT going to add as much to the win column as Liriano already does. I would imagine the Twins would want/need some near mlb ready pitching in return.
Maybe Young, Holland, a lower prospect and some cash for Liriano?
Its going to take a boat load of cash, if they are dumping Liriano for cash reasons..
Its going to take at least 75% of Youngs contract to make a deal work
i remember profar from the llws…kids was an absolute beast at 12
Young has already depreciated his returning value by publicly asking for a trade. That’s how you get your revenge on a team that’s pledged their allegiance to you, while making you change positions 3 different times (SS, 3B, DH). There’s no way Young-for-Liriano would be a straight-up deal. TEX was asking COL for a “very good” player…and Liriano is more than that. Remember the whispers of a young Johan Santana a surgery ago? Since his recovery, I don’t foresee 2 Cy Youngs in his future, but you don’t need that to win 20 games with NYY – just look at CC.
Probably take them eating 75% of Young’s deal and tossing in 2 or 3 solid young players. So.. not likely.
The Twins did not ask about Young. They have asked about him in previous years, but they already said no once it was known that they were on his list.
Young is overrated. Young = Cuddyer. He also has no position and would sit on the bench for us. Very much not worth it.
Wow.
Young is a negative asset to the tune of $20m or so.
Liriano is a positive asset – maybe by as much as $20m/year for the next 2 years.
The only way a deal like this would make sense for the Twins is if it was Young + his ENTIRE $48m + top shelf minor leaguer (or two). And even then I’m not sure that the Twins are better. They add a bat, save some money and get some solid talent back. Don’t know if that is better than having Liriano.
No. Unless you’re willing to not only eat his contract, but send us an additional $50M.
because the twins are not going to trade for young anymore. young wouldnt have a spot in the infield in minnesota with valencia doing a pretty good job for his minimum salary, with the new japanese player playing second or short and the twins wanting to give cassila another chance of winnng a starting position again
Cashman your patience maybe paying off. Get Michael Young and send him and a prospect to the Twins for Liriano. They need some right handed hitting to go with Delmon Young in that lineup
If the Twins really want Young, why wouldn’t they just trade Liriano to the Rangers for him?
rangers want eat enough money… yanks get him and eat 8 or 9 mill a year so young is only 7 or 8 mill a year…
Because Liriano for Young straight up is a terrible trade.
they dont want young anymore
I think they need top pitching, and throw in a handful of prospects too cuz the twins dont want or need Young
If the Yanks want him they better be willing to give us a package something like Montero,Nova, Gardner. Or maybe their best ss prospect in place of Gardner in that package. The Twins FO better not give him away for nothing or they are better letting him pitch for 2 years and taking the draft choices. They would have been better off letting Santana pitch for them in 2008 and taking the draft choices, then what they got in that trade.
The Twins have no use for a Catcher or first basemen. What would they possibly do with Montero besides send him elsewhere?
Montero’s name is hardly ever mentioned without the words “position change” attached. Maybe they want to use his bat at another position.
Wouldnt happen for either side. The twins really need a package built around a catcher dont they? lol
You know…in case Mauer retires halfway through this season or next year…
Montero is a catcher currently but it’s said that Montero isn’t going to be a catcher in the bigs. Possibly a right fielder or first baseman.
they have a couple nice pitching prospects in betances and banuelos, as well as joba and nova. then they can include gardner or brandon laird or eduardo nunez. it would be amazing if the yanks got liriano and got to keep montero. then they have their ace and catcher of the future!
Yankees project Banuelos and Betances to be top of the rotation pieces in 2 yrs. They will not deal them away for Liriano, who will cost more money to sign in the future.Cashman is in love with his minor league starters and will into ST with what he currently has on staff.
they PROJECT to maybe be, if everything goes right and they reach their top potential, what liriano IS right now. one in the hand (liriano on your team) is worth two in the bush (prospects).
Cashman didn’t think that during the Santana dealings and his philosophy pretty much has remained the same. The Cliff Lee deal with Seattle didn’t include any of his prized pitchers either, and he thought more of Lee than Liriano. He would trade position players and low level pitchers, but not any of the projected aces.
no cashman needs to trade granderson and high prospect to white sox for john danks
Ha! Yeah ok. Kenny Williams isn’t dumb.
Well, no, he’s pretty dumb.
You’re right, he’s actually completely insane.
And yet he has won a World Series dumbass
dumbass? It’s funny because TO THIS DAY the white sox front office still have NO CLUE how or why they won a world series. If they had, they would be able to put a better product of the field that actually can win a division.
Oh…HE won it?
I’m sorry, but as a Sox fan, there is no way I do such a trade. I have a great young lefty in Danks, and a solid CF in Rios. Granderson is a nice player, but I have a much bigger hole if I lose Danks.
Which makes me wonder, getting back to the article, why Minn would want to do this now. You have 2 years before Liriano is a FA. I’d keep his talent with me all season, then MAYBE trade next winter, or even trade deadline 2012. But, as a Sox fan, I’d love to see him gone sooner over later.
I don’t think Danks is available.
This is really depressing news for Twins fans. I’m not one, but what a bummer.
Edit: If you believe it, that is.
Buck up happy camper. They said they’re “willing” to trade Liriano. The DBacks were willing to trade Upton over the winter as well, then we found out they just wanted to see what they could get for him. If I was a bettin man, I’d say he stays put.
Who would the Yankees give up to get Liriano? Keep in mind the Twins have one of the best farm systems in all of baseball. If they’re not willing to send some of their best prospects, they’re not in it IMO.
The Yankees would probably have to offer a quantity of players because A) their best trade chip is a catcher and obviously the Twins are set at that position and B) most of their pitching prospects aren’t ML ready, and you have to assume that to get a guy like Liriano the Twins would want at least some ML ready talent.
Their best chip is a catcher that won’t catch. The Twins will happily play him at DH if necessary. But it would probably take him, Banuelos + one of their other top guys just to get in the room.
Okay, I know Liriano is good… but is he really worth THAT much? Why would he get a better package than what we would have offered to get Cliff Lee?!
because we get him for 2 years (cheaply), and then you have a shot at extending him too.
because we get him for 2 years (cheaply), and then you have a shot at extending him too”.
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The extension part has ZERO to do with it. That’s not a “tangible” that the Twins can transfer to the Yankees.
Sure it is. After 1 season, the Yankees have the option to negotiate an extension with no competition from other teams. If Liriano has a bad to average year, they can “buy low”. If he has a good year, they can wait to see if he struggles the 2nd year before competing in the free agent market. It’s a gamble, but it’s worth something.
exactly what i was trying to say. you have him under team control for 2 years so you can extend him if you like what you see the first year and you have an exclusive negotiating window if he wows you the second year!
“Sure it is. After 1 season, the Yankees have the option to negotiate an extension with no competition from other teams. If Liriano has a bad to average year, they can “buy low”. If he has a good year, they can wait to see if he struggles the 2nd year before competing in the free agent market. It’s a gamble, but it’s worth something”.
Again. Whatever the Yanks work out with Lirirano once the trade is done has nothing to do with the Twins. Thus, they can not use it as a selling point. It’s like when teams were looking to trade for Halladay. The Jays fans were saying “give us “X” amount of prospects. You can always extend him for the next 5 years”. Those prospects have tremndous value and those extened years won’t come cheapley. No one is giving the Yanks a home team discount if they were just traded there.
Furthermore, if he has a bad year then how does that work in the Yanks favor again?
It’s not what the Yanks work out with Liriano, it’s that they have 2 years where they CAN work something out, instead of 1 year. This is an advantage. Something tangible, which is why he would be worth more than if he only had 1 year left on his contract.
If he has a bad year, obviously he hurt the Yankees in games he pitched. However, the Yankees can sign him to a cheaper contract because of that year if they wish, without interference from other teams. This is the opposite of signing a player to a really long/expensive extension after he has his best year ever. It’s smart to buy low.
Sorry my bad, you are absolutely correct…just remembering now I read somewhere a while ago that he will probably end up in the OF or at 1B. But still it’s a moot point, the Yankees are not going to empty their farm system that is already starting to look thin at the top for a pitcher with a history of injury issues, because despite the thinness of their ML rotation I don’t think they’re THAT desperate. If the Yankees FO is smart, which they are, they probably won’t do it imo.
Starting to look thin at the top? Where do people get their information? All the Yankees’ best prospects (save for one) are in AA or higher.
Yeah I guess that statement can be taken a few different ways. I don’t mean that they have a shortage of players who will be ready soon, I mean thin in quality. It seems likely that the Yankees will see a good influx of youth from the farm by 2012. But there seems to be a good drop in talent from the #1 prospect to the #2 ranked prospect. You may not see it the same way, but that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine..
If by ‘a good drop in talent’ you mean from a top-10 prospect to 3 more top 50 prospects, I guess.
Of course, it’s your opinion that that constitutes a ‘good drop in talent’, which means that all farm systems in the game that are not run by the Kansas City Royals suffer from this, and many more are ‘a good drop in talent’ from the very beginning, including the Twins.
Bingo
That’s actually incorrect. All of their top pitching prospects are near mlb ready in the sense that they all pitched at AA or higher last year or will start 2011 @ AA.
Nova, Noesi, Brackman, Banuelos, Betances, Phelps and Warren all pitched at AA or higher and Stoneburner is suppose to start @ AA in 2011.
Funny think is, power pitchers are the most interesting prospects but I have tons of confidence for some reason in Phelps and Warren, who throw in the 92-94 range, but not as hard as any of the killer B’s.
I would say something a long the lines of…
Betances + Noesi + David Adams 2B + Brando Laird 3B/1B/LF/RF is a pretty fair package IMO.
The feeling towards Noesi is that he has a great FB @ 94-95 mph with great control and a good to ver good change. If he develops a thrid pitch (curve or slider) they think he can be a #2 type of starter. I think Adams is going to have a great year if his ankle is healed.
No I wouldn’t say I was incorrect. So in your world “near mlb ready’ is the same as mlb ready? Fascinating logic. Another fascinating question: If any of those top prospects were ready to pitch in the bigs wouldn’t they take the #5 spot in the rotation? You have Banuelos who is the only clear cut starter in your top 10 prospects, and he pitched his way up to AA last season. He isn’t ready for the majors, and he is the closest guy to making the leap as far as clear cut starters go. So no, I am not incorrect.
“So in your world “near mlb ready’ is the same as mlb ready?”
-I think most would say that near mlb ready is will pitch in the majors either in 2011 or the start of 2012. That being said, the Yanks have at least 7 starters that are near mlb ready.
“If any of those top prospects were ready to pitch in the bigs wouldn’t they take the #5 spot in the rotation?”.
-Nova is already slated to make it as the #4. Phelps, Noesi and DJ Mitchell all have a shot at being the #5 pitcher out of spring training. Yanks typically don’t like to go with more than 1 rookie pitcher in the rotation because of what happened in 2008. Cash has said he wants to take his time and give Brackman and Warren more seasoning @ AA and AAA. Banuelos and Betances need a season or so to build their innings as they each were coming off injuries in early 2010.
“You have Banuelos who is the only clear cut starter in your top 10 prospects”,
-Not being a homer, but you are clearly undervalueing the Yanks farm if you think Banuelos is the only “clear cut” starter from the lot including Brackman, Betances, Noesi, Warren and others. Not saying some might not be brought up as relievers or limited to those roles but right now they are considered starters.
Let me rephrase my original post: “ML ready talent” = a pitcher that has and can continue to pitch in the majors. Happy?
“-I think most would say that near mlb ready is will pitch in the majors either in 2011 or the start of 2012. That being said, the Yanks have at least 7 starters that are near mlb ready.”
For the love of Zeus, I said someone who is READY, not someone who is a year away. I’m pretty sure “most” would say they are not the same thing.
“MLB ready talent”-
Ready to what? Pitch in the majors.
“a pitcher that has and can continue to pitch in the majors”.
That actually equalls a young mlb pitcher.
Over blown story, I don’t buy it. I spoke with Bill Smith on the Twins winter caravan and he said they would like to see Liriano back it up with another solid season.
Is he tradeable, sure, but their not looking to move him.
No offense, but do you really expect the Twins GM at a Twins’ fan event, to confide in a FAN that he’s willing to trade their best pitcher because they may not be able afford? Was the event free for fans too?
No I don’t. My wife
Case Closed then.
If you’re a Twins fan you’ve got to be ready for arson. Liriano is just coming into his prime. The Twins look like they’re just going to keep muddling along. Horribly depressing for their fans.
Please SOX FAN. How many AL Central Titles have the twins won the past 9 seasons?? Oh riiiiigt 6!! Hardly muddling along. Grow up!
Might be the other Sox… you know, the red ones. Maine is in New England, after all.
Any and all SOX fans red, white, polka dot or whatever simply suck.
hahaaha
The Titles are a product of a bad division and unbalanced schedules. How many playoff games have they won in the past 9 seasons?
My appologies. I didn’t realize winning the worst division in baseball and then losing in the playoffs was such a cool thing. I’ll try to grow up and be like you dad.
Why would I depressed. He had arm trouble with the Giants, which is why they traded him to us and he had tommy john with the twins. He has a violent delivery and will probably have tommy john once more in his career. If we can get a pretty sweet haul for him the trade away. Plus we have Kyle Gibson who will be the face of the franchise in 2012.
If getting rid of Liriano is such a good idea why are Yankee fans rooting for him to come NY? If you can get a haul for him, great. He’s 27 and a lot of pitchers have been very successful are TJS. He had a great year last year. Why are you all so hot to get rid of him?
As the story said, keep an eye on Kyle Gibson’s development. He is the biigest factor in whether or not Liriano gets traded. Becasue of that, Liriano is probably not going to be moved in the immediate future.
If the Yankees are that desperate for Twins pitching, feel free to take Scott Baker. Trust us, we would be okay with that move.
Thanks but I think the issue is that Liriano maybe getting expensive for the Twins. He is a candidate for a contract extension and a free agent after 2013. He also has a history of injuries.
Right, so they’ll trade him in 2013 or take the draft picks when he walks. No need to unload him now.
Yes, money is one of the main factors, but the Gibson’s development could determine when Liriano gets traded, if the Twins go that route.
For example, suppose Gibson appears in the second half and is absolutely dominant, that would make it likely that Liriano gets traded in the offseason. Or if Gibson is ready to go at the beginning of the season, and if the Twins falter, they could trade Liriano at the deadline. Everything at this point however, is speculative.
God forbid we have 2 above average starters at the same time…
Money is not a factor with Nathan, Cuddyer and probably more coming off the books in ’12. They signed Johan to his first extension after a Cy, it’s not unprecedented. Plus these aren’t Carl’s Twins anymore.
Plus if he goes now, we’re stuck with a rotation full of #3-4 guys.
Injuries a factor though – you bet.
Anthopolous should totally swoop in and land him..start a starting pitching monopoly
Escobar + Rzepcynski for Liriano (with extension window)
have johnny mac bat ninth and play SS and pray that Hech is ready for 2012.
wow lol selling low on escobar are we? not so sure hech is going to be our answer longterm… think you could keep esco , and give litch and rzep mastroianni
Who’s selling low on escobar.. If he’s the main piece in a Liriano trade thats not selling low at all..
Twins would laugh at a litch, Rzep and Mastroianni deal..
AA already traded Marcum for a prospect, he’s shown he is perfectly fine with not being competitive this year.
Terrible trade. You’re counting wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much on Hechevarria who to this point has shown no ability to his pro pitching.
I’m sure the Jays could put together a competitive package that didn’t include him. It WOULD include their actual good pitching prospects, not garbage like Litsch.
Hech is getting a major league contract, they have to bring him up sometime
Boo to that. I would much rather keep the young SS with all-star upside. For Toronto at least, talented middle infielders have proven much harder to come by then a pitcher who had some arm-problems (a major injury and hard time returning from it) with ace upside.
Valid point..
however, Escobar and or Hill, one of them will be come expendable eventually. So if you can acquire an ace for one, I’d say do it .
Travis Snider would have to be the centerpiece of a Liriano trade which I know Toronto wouldn’t part with. I don’t think the Jays and Twins match up for Liriano.
Time to buy-low on a veteran arm? Where’s AA?
litch, rzep, darin mastroanni
I just re-read this, and I must have had stars in my eyes. I read it COMPLETELY wrong. My bad.
this will probably be a big deadline trade
Yankees would be smart to give the twins a call.
Twins would be smart not to answer.
Why? Maybe if the Twins get the advantage of the trade and play the Yankees, they’d have a shot to beat the Yankees for once in the ALDS if they play.
It was said that Reagins approached AA @ the winter meetings. Thus, it was probably AA struggling NOT to laugh in Reagin’s face. Sort of like when you have two aces in the whole and catch another two on the flop and some one throws a ridiculous over the top raise at you because they caught two pairs on the flop.
disqus hates you.
HA
disqus hates you.
HA
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yes it does.
Hey it worked!
Their’s no way on God’s green earth that the Twins would trade Liriano for anything but up and comjing players that are cost-controlled. The Twins want to trim and control pay-roll and in no way want anything to do with M Young. The Twins would NEVER take on pay-roll in any Liriano deal. 4.3M for this year is a great deal so why would they even consider trading him in the first place.
Unless another team pick up part of Young’s salary.
You’re way way way off. Twins have no need or want for Michael Young even if he was cheap. Danny Valencia owns third for the forseeable future.
Man, I would love him on the Rockies. Plus it would allow us to move Cook on to the Rangers for Young.
Rangers don’t want Cook… Rangers would take Lariano though if that was available.
Rangers don’t want Young more than they don’t want Cook.
Orioles are getting this dude
Doesn’t seem that far fetched considering the O’s have a surplus of young outfielders and need for a top of the rotation pitcher. The O’s could trade Tillman and Pie (two major league ready players) or Pie and a couple of minor leaguers like Bell and a low A guy.
Yeah I agree. The Orioles need a stud pitcher that’s proven. Why not take a risk on Liriano
Is it time for the Orioles to start unloading young talent?
Unfortunately the Twins also have a surplus of young outfielders ( Revere, Hicks, Benson, Morales, and now Oswaldo Arcia)
Now if you have a middle infielder or power pitcher, that would help the Orioles chances of getting Liriano.
Forget about the O’s and disregard my name for a second and think about this. Rizzo has been freaking out all offseason about not being able to bring a potential number one starter and this is probably the last one available. If he offers Desmond and Detwiler among others, would the Twins jump on that?
we dont need anymore outfielders.. We have 4 for 3 spots already and revere ready in the minors.
Cocaine’s a hell of a drug.
for who?
Josh Hamiliton
Josh Hamiliton
Seems like a deal right up AA’s alley
This makes some sense on some levels. There is some bad blood in the past between the Twins and Liriano, who filed a grievance a few years back when he felt he was being left in the minors unfairly. That might still be lingering for him and he may not want to stay with the team long-term without getting a big payday.
$13 mil a year for a pitcher with his injury history should make just about any team flinch for a second. This doesn’t mean the Twins should trade him, just that they are smart to let it be known they are considering it. They’d be dumb not to be at least pondering what they could get for him rather than letting him walk in two years and taking a couple picks.
I don’t think you’ll see him moved any time soon, but at the trade deadline this year if the Twins are out of it, who knows?
Does he have an injury history beyond the TJ?
Do you really need much more injury history beyond that? Plus, he has a violent delivery that isn’t the best thing for that elbow. He could pitch another 10 years and never suffer an injury, or he could blow that elbow out this June. Who knows?
Well, TJ surgery doesn’t mean that much these days cause it is so common.
“Well, TJ surgery doesn’t mean that much these days cause it is so common”.
TJ surgery really isn’t a big deal. Been thru a couple myself. Wood, Volquez, etc.
-D.Baker
That’s a great point, maybe that is why they may try to get something for him while his value is high.
yes
Yeah the Giants let him go in the Joe Nathan trade because he had arm problems back with them. He’s a gamble with his arm.
I was going to draw attention to this as well. It’s not like the Twins don’t want to keep Frankie, but I think there is some bad blood here and the Twins are QUICK to get rid of guys who have attitude problems, are self-absorbed or don’t respect the organization. It can look to us like they don’t want to win, but there’s more to being a winning ballclub than being successful for one season. Let’s not miss the forest for the trees here. With the Twins it’s their way or the highway and I’m fine with that.
He’s already taking a physical for the Yankees, just ask Jon Heyman.
If the Twins do this deal, they are signaling once and for all that they are in it to just make the playoffs and hope for the best, which is usually one and done. Fill up that stadium, make big bucks, then shop your best pitcher. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. Cores such as the Twins possess right now don’t just come along all the time. They need to be adding another starter to go along with Liriano, not trading him and leaving the rotation left up to a bunch of ground ball, 85mph flat fastball thrower innings eaters. The time is now for the Twins. Strike while the iron is hot.
I wouldn’t be so negative, look at what the Rays. They’ve won the AL East (a tougher division) twice in three years with less resources that the Twins. This year flipped Garza for prospects and they expect to be back on track next year.
Extremely poor analogy. The Rays have built their rotation on high-ceiling arms, which is exactly the opposite.
Rays have been there and competitive lately because they were utterly terrible for lots of years. They had a top 5 pick pretty consistently for what seemed like forver and where able to draft the top talent year after year. Plus if they did have anyone worth any salt, they would flip them for topline prospects.
Twins are not in a position to draft the top arms. Also, their philosphy usually rests on drafting consistent, strike throwing, college arms. These guys are needed and valuable, but they are also the type that usually make up the back end of many rotations in MLB.
I just hate to see us give up the only power/strikeout/ace type pitcher on our staff. By all accounts, Kyle Gibson is another Kevin Slowey clone. Yes, he will be a good #3 or 4 starter, but not the ACE this team needs. Remember, Slowey flew through the minors with number and control better than Gibson has and he has been underwelming at best since he has been with the big club.
For a while now I have thought of Jurrjens as a perfect fit for the Twins but they never matched up well with the Braves a trade. However now I think they could match.
Jurrjens has less ace upside than Liriano and isn’t a lefty but is under control one year longer and is cheaper this year. Even considering team control and cost Liriano is more valuable than Jurrjens so the Braves would have to put something exta in like a near ready B level SP prospect like Beachy or Hoover and then a high upside/low minors wildcard type like Betancourt C or Perez LHP.
The Twins get a more cost controlled but very solid MLB tested replacement for Liriano plus more pieces for the farm while the Braves deal out of depth to get a LH starter with ace stuff to go with their slew of established RHP.
Yankees
Brain Cashman, get on the next flight to Minneapolis. Bring a folder with organizational depth charts and just lay them on the table, saying “take your pick.”
Thank god they do not need a catcher or DH for the near future. I wanna see Monteo in a NYY uniform.
Actually, Thome is only signed for this year and Kubel is a free agent after this year as well. Given Morneau’s concussion problems, Jesus Montero would make some sense. You could convert him or Mauer to first if Morneau can’t be counted on going forward. Or you could use him as a DH/1B platoon with Morneau.
Well then I guess you have to give up something to get something.
Wow you are really desperate to denegrate the Twins current talent, I said it before and I’ll say it again, the Yankees simply do not have what it takes to land Liriano. The blue chippers just aren’t there at positions of need for the Twins.
I’m not saying the Yanks have what it takes to get Liriano, just saying that Montero would work for the Twins.
As for the Twins talent, that’s funny. On a local Twins chat board I’m considered a homer who always sees things as half-full. But I’m also a realist. I think Morneau will come back healthy, but who knows.And the upcoming talent from the minors is nothing to write home about. Hicks is good, as are players like Joe Benson, Miguel Sano, Angel Morales, but there really isn’t a first baseman/DH type with power to be found anywhere on the horizon in their system.
How is it “denegrating” the Twins talent to point out that Morneau has health concerns and that Kubel and Thome are only signed for one more season?
Disguising your name & photo there Bill Smith?
Just a stupid, stupid idea.
Ok, I quit. I’m trying to respond to mkorpal and this thing won’t let me. Anyways, what I want to say is:
Liriano’s had some injuries in the minors. He’s also missed some starts due to a dead arm.
3 Way deal
Twins Get- Holland, Young
Rangers Get – Liriano
Angels get – Michael Young’s contract
Post of the DAY!!!! I laughed so hard!
LMFAO!!
Liriano would be an ace in the M´s, Safeco is great for lefties, but what kind of package would be enough, obiusly a package without Smoak, Pineda or Ackley…
Felix, Liriano, Pineda, Bedard would be great, but very risky I think
Well Felix + Lee did them so well last year.
That would match up better for the Twins cause we could use a franchise 2nd basemen. Seattle would match up well with the Twins.
If the mariners even whisper the name dustin ackley, the Twins would be ALL EARS!
Hes no good for us, too young and still in his prime
-Brian Cashman
This guys no good for us, too young and in his prime
-Brian Cashman
1st off, the talk about Michael Young is nonsense. Twins aren’t interested.
2nd, the yankees are a terrible match as their best prospects are at positions where the Twins are the strongest. It’s safe to say he won’t be a Yankee.
3rd, I would be shocked to see him land in toronto. True they cleared a ton off the books, but that said they wouldn’t be able to lock up Liriano AND Bastista without committing way way too much $$ on 2 players. He won’t be a bluejay.
4th, Back to the Rangers. Rangers have been long interested in Liriano and I’m sure the Twins would want a treasure chest of young talented cheap arms in return. Seems like these arms have all graduated to the ML. I doubt the Rangers would want to deal CJ Wilson. In terms of prospects, Scheppers + Perez + a few B prospects would probably get it done.
5th, Liriano is going to pitch all of 2011 and possibly some of 2012 for the Twins. The twins will take advantage of his low cost and high production before dealing him. It’s possible he’s dealt NEXT offseason but more likely at the deadline in 2012.
Finally, the twins could use a blue chip infield prospect, blue chip pitchers. The other positions in the organization are stacked with either premium ML talent or big time blue chip prospects just waiting in the wings. Sano SS/3B + Hicks OF + Revere OF + and even Benson OF will all contribute bigtime at the ML level within 2-3 years. Pitching is actually very strong but the Twins just love to load the system with young cheap arms.
I think if they wait until the trade deadline in 2012, they might as well take the picks they would likely get by letting him leave. Look at what they got for Santana trading him with only one year left on his deal. At the trade deadline with only a couple months left on his contract, the return on trading him wouldn’t be that great.
In my opinion, if they are going to move him, it needs to be this spring or by the trade deadline this year.
I don’t see that happening. Twins are massive contenders this season. They will utilize Liriano and his salary for all of 2011. Unless they are just BLOWN the heck away by a desperate contender, only then will they deal their ace before 2011 ends. Also, if for some reason the Twins are out of the hunt (extremely unlikely) by the AS break then they’d deal him then.
The twins aren’t massive contenders at all? You guys lost a tone this offseason
A tone? Not sure what you are talking about there. All they really lost was bullpen arms. They gained one of their BEST bullpen arms in Nathan and will have ALL STAR Capps for a full season. Oh and if you actually followed the Twins you’d realize that they have incredible pitching depth to step in and some up BIG for them in 2011 on the pitching side. Guys like Gutierrez, Hendricks, Hoey, Jacobsen and others will be surprisingly strong out of the pen this year. I think the 2011 version is as strong or stronger than the 2010 version.
Nathan is a big question mark coming off Tommy John surgery…Also who knows how Morneau will do coming off his concussion issues.
Hendriks and Jacobsen haven’t pitched above A-Ball… neither will be in the Majors this season.
Montero, Brackman and Banuelos for Liriano
No, no, no, NO!!!
We’ll throw in Span if you give us Gardner.
Twin fans are panicked over nothing. Smith is smart enough to know what he has in Liriano.
I think Smith would have to have to be blown away, and then some, by an offer to even consider trading Liriano at this point.
I am not so sure he is that smart. This is the same guy in 2007 who played tough when trading Johan Santana and basically got Carlos Gomez in return.
Yea, the Twins didn’t get much for Santana as it turns out.
However, 29 teams would be in on Liriano. I think Smith would insist on 1 rotation ready pitcher and 2 blue chip prospects.
Maybe the Twins medical people see something they don’t like in Liriano’s elbow. If they think he won’t last for the long haul, now is a great time to deal him.
The Yankees will probably overpay right now.
This is tired – Smith has made one solid move after another since Johan forced his hand back then. He’s locked up guys everyone outside of Minnesota said would be gone and practically doubled the payroll in three seasons by bringing in the right pieces to compete. Now they’ve gone outside their proverbial box to solve 2B and brought back more FAs than anyone thought they would. Guy deserves some credit now.
I’d personally like to see te red sox jump on this guy, he’d be a great addition. I’d also like to see the orioles trade for him. They are just a few good starters away from being good. I bet the Yankees go full court press on him though.
It will take A LOT more than just prospects to get Liriano (Delusional Yanks fans)
oh and, considering i started this trend…
I believe he can pitch
– B. Cashman
Would be nice to see the red sox land him, or the orioles. I bet the yanks go full court press on this guy though.
Didn’t the Sox win a World Series recently?
If Boston wants him. How about a package of Lowrie, Bard and a DoubleA pitcher. Think the Sox would bite?
Yuck.
Yup, the Sox would chow down on that with emphasis.
The Twins, not even a nibble.
Or how about Marco Scutro, Mike Cameron, a Double a pitcher and a rookie ball pitcher?
Done deal!
The Twins will only trade for young cost-controlled players that their FO think have upside in the way their organization does things.
I could be wrong, but I believe he was doing a sarcasm.
It was clearly a joke cowboy, I know how the Twins operate.
I know. But let me ask. What would be a fair offer for Liriano be from a Boston fan perspective. The Yanks would really hate it if the Sox got Liriano, because I’m sure they are dreaming of getting him to combat the Sox left-handed hitters. Plus it would make the Sox rotation a monster.
I’m not very familiar with the Red Sox farm system. I know they gave away 3 of their best prospects to SD for AGON. From a Twins perspective were looking at a Daniel Bard. I mean I would love Jacoby Ellsbury but A) he’s represented by Scott Boras and B) he’s not under team control for 6 years. Lars Anderson and Daniel Bard plus maybe another pitching prospect.
You are completelu absurd.
Can we PLEASE from now, think about trades that have already been done and then consider that for all other trades.
The only ones that even come close would be the Colon/Indians/Expos trade and the Tex/Braves/Rangers trade and the first was a special circumstance and the last is widely considered to be a complete robbery.
Well we got Liriano, Nathan and Bonser for AJ Pierzynski in Nov. of 2003. Doesn’t hurt to ask high at first.
How does your reply button always fail?
How does your reply button always fail?
-it works when it wan’t to. right now it’s in mark prior mode. get’s your hopes up and then starts malfunctioning.
Am I the only one that uses disqus and has to log in each to post a comment too?
Being a Yanks fan you probably couldn’t stand seeing the Red Sox get him because he would really look good pitching in pinstripes against the Sox. With all their lh batters the Yanks NEED another dominating lefty.
You are completelu absurd.
Can we PLEASE from now, think about trades that have already been done and then consider that for all other trades.
The only ones that even come close would be the Colon/Indians/Expos trade and the Tex/Braves/Rangers trade and the first was a special circumstance and the last is widely considered to be a complete robbery.
Are you using a strange web browser or something? You’re the only person I’ve seen this happen to on a consistent basis that wasn’t just pants-on-head retarded.
Liriano for Montero & Chamberlain sounds fair to both sides.
No it doesn’t. Joba has fallen so far there was recent talk that Kevin Slowey might be enough to land him. Look at the hauls KC and TB got recently for Grienke and Garza. It would take a similar deal to land a talented pitcher like Liriano, who’s still under team control for two more years.
Except he cant stay healthy. Montero alone should be more than enough. They have more about Liriano’s value over at fangraphs
I can almosy guarantee you that there have ZERO talks on the Yanks end about sending Joba to the Twins for soft tossing Slow-ey. And speaking of, the KC and TB hauls, none of them included a top 30,let alone top 5-10 guy like Montero. I feel Liriano is deserving of at least one blue chip prospect but moreso one like Betances or Brackman.
Cocaine’s a hell of a drug.
So the Twins only made a token effort to negotiate with this guy? Holy red flag, Batman!
I think also the Twins should wait and see how Morneau is going forward, they might need a blue chip 1B prospect if its the worst with him (I hope not).
I don’t see the Twins trading Liriano to the Yanks, after what the Yanks have done to them the last few seasons. The Jays or O’s would be a good fit as well as Texas. I would hope that the Twins would be able to do better than they did with Santana to the Mets.
Sour grapes because the Twins have lost something like 20 of their last 23 or so against the Yankees. Including being sweep in their last 3 playoff series.
Brett Gardner and Manny Banuelos for Delmon Young and Francisco Liriano
Don’t forget Garza and Bartlett for D. Young.
I’m pretty sure Ruben Amaro is all over this… Gotta upgrade that #5 spot, LOL.
Dominic Brown and Joe Blanton for Francisco Liriano and Delmon Young
Amaro wouldnt trade Brown for Halladay, why would he trade him for Liriano.
Because their window is closing. The Phillies have ravaged their farm system to acquire big-time talent and if they don’t win the next three years or so they may not win for a long time. I’m not saying the trade is realistic either, though, but the Phillies should not overvalue Brown.
Just imagine a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Liriano, Oswalt, and Hamels.
That’s just stupid. You say they ravaged their farm, yet they’d trade their best prospect for a guy who wont even pitch in the playoffs? You’re joking right?
i guess having the number 5 system ranked in baseball is bad???
if it was brown for halladay he would have been packing in an instant.
Noooooo! I love the ‘Cisco kid as a Twinkie. Wish the Twins could afford to keep him. Wonder where he’ll end up. Didn’t he come from SF? How filthy would that rotation be with Liriano added into the mix?!
How about Chris Tillman, Jake Arrieta, Josh Bell, and Felix Pie for Liriano. Arrieta slides into the open rotation slot, probably after Pavano and Slowey. Tillman pushes Baker for his rotation slot. Bell finally gives the Twins a long-term 3B solution, and Pie gives them a good athletic OF.
how is Danny Valencia not a long-term 3B solution?
Valencia is at 3B, and the last thing they need is another OF, let alone one who is positioned for his 4th attempt at a breakout season.
I’ll just put it like this. No.
1. Why would we want a guy who slides in AFTER Pavano and Slowey?
2. While I’m not completely sold on Valencia, I promise you we won’t be looking to replace him.
3. Pie does nothing for us unless its pumpkin.
I wouldn’t trade you the pack of chewing gum for Felix Pie.
Il give you Wilmer Flores and Fernando Martinez and Dillon Gee lol
“doubront, lowrie, and something else. reddick? lin? tejada? might take two lower prospects, idk. the teams don’t really match up well at all. boston has 6 and a half starters already”.
You think Doubront, Lowrie and Reddick would be enough? I’m just asking because I would think at least 1 blue chipper would be needed. By “blue chipper” I was thinking at least 1 top 50 guy.
Hey I guess we’ve never resolved that MLK III situation huh? LOL
Local radio reports are calling this article “speculative” at best.
Christensen is more bouncing a possibility. It’s a far cry from Liriano being available.
ORIOLES?!?!?!?!
time for typical yankees fans to swoop in with their trade possiblities…I would think it would have to start with montero(i know he is blocked at C by mauer and 1st by morneau) but if he is moved to DH having a DH on a team that can catch and play 1st is the versatility that gardy loves)
I don’t see the Red Sox getting in on this. I also don’t believe that they would want to trade with the Yankees considering the Yanks already beat them up every post season, but the yanks have a lot of good prospect. On that note many of those prospects are catchers and I remember hearing something about the Twins having a guy at catcher who is pretty decent. So I think they might stick with that guy. damn, what’s his name again? Joe something right?
You are one of the dumbest people i have ever meet.. you talk as if your the GM for the twins have NO IDEA whats going on..
Since Sandy seems to hate Jose Reyes would Jose , Wilmer Flores, Dillon Gee/ Mark Cohoon be close to getting it done… I feel as those this has a good shot at making the Twins better in 2011 while getting a solid prospect in Flores and back of the rotation guy in one of Gee and Cohoon who pound the zone.( Twins seem to love that type of
Pitcher)
Announcer: Batting third for your Tuscon Toros as designated hitter, number ten, Michael Young!
Would absolutely love Liriano in Toronto, but I doubt it’s in the cards with what we’ve seen AA do so far this off-season. I think Toronto has the prospects, and perhaps the MLB ready youngsters to get the deal done, but it would be a risk with Liriano having an injured background and him not being signed past this year.
Cash this is your chance to jump in and get redemption. LOL
Banuelos/Bentances, Brackman, Nunez, Adams, Heathcott?
No Montero/Sanchez/Romine because the twins have a catcher for a while now.
So an A prospect, a B prospect, and a few guys who will be average major leaguers i guess.
Nah, that probably isn’t too attractive to the Twins in the sense that Brackman is in the deal. He has no value.
I don’t think the Yanks should or are willing to part with Heathcott so quickly. Give him a chance to develop.
If I had to make an offer, it would be one of Banuelos/Bentances, Joba, Nunez, and Laird, and then work from there if necessary. Yes, I’d give up Joba for him easy. If the Twins wanted one of the young catchers (you never know), I’d say they can swap Nunez out for any but Montero and Romine if they feel like the original 4 listed isn’t enough.
Totally agree on the Joba front, I really would like to see him get another shot in the rotation and he could get that in Minnesota. Our deals are pretty similar. Just thought i’d let you know Brackman is a top 100 prospect even though he’s old.
Yeah, but the Twins will turn around and cite his injury history.
“Nah, that probably isn’t too attractive to the Twins in the sense that Brackman is in the deal. He has no value”.
Huh? Why would you say a 25 yo pitcher who throws 95 mph +and has one of the best curves has no value? Also, keep in mind that he’s only pitched 2 years in the minors thus far.
“If I had to make an offer, it would be one of Banuelos/Bentances, Joba, Nunez, and Laird, and then work from there if necessary”.
..then work from there? Who are we acquiring here? That deal would be a little more than enough as it is. We are obtaining a guy 1 year removed from a 5.00 + ERA and two years removed from TJ surgery.
Brackman is extremely injury prone. He’s probably too much of a risk.
Liriano came back quite well from injury. It probably takes a lot to get him regardless of what you say.
“Banuelos/Bentances, Brackman, Nunez, Adams, Heathcott”?
I think that’s way toomuch. I think Montero, Banuelos and Sanchez are as close to being untouchable as it gets for the Yanks. I think they only get put into a package for a true elite pitcher, under control or under contract and w/o injury concern.
How about the Mariners get involved, they need some pitching in their rotation, They could offer some good prospects they have Triunfel, or Tuiasosoppo, Josh Fields, shoot I don’t know, any thoughts on what it would take Seattle to acquire Liriano?
Haha. A hell of a lot more than that.
It just sucks we wasted our good prospects on Lee (this is sarcasm).
Could you imagine how much they could get from the Yanks for Liriano. After missing out on Lee they would pay big for Liriano.
Maybe if they throw in a washing machine…