3:27am: FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal (who apparently doesn't sleep) tweets that the Rangers are "not at all" confident that they will be able to pry Garza away from the Cubs. Texas considers Chicago's asking price to be too steep.
10:06pm: The Cubs and Rangers are discussing a possible swap of Matt Garza for prospects, but aren't close to matching up yet, tweets Bruce Levine of ESPN Chicago. Danny Knobler of CBS Sports confirms (via Twitter) that the Rangers are trying to acquire the right-hander.
The Cubs are rumored to be seeking an "overwhelming offer" for Garza.
Steve Adams contributed to this post.
Profar, Perez, Olt, and Ramirez should be untouchable. Scheppers is a top prospect I would let go with the bullpen we have he won’t be needed.
Going to take one of those four, possibly two. The Cubs don’t need to trade him, but in a thin pitching market they could get a team to overpay.
Well, Jeez man… it sounds like you think Garza’s a number 4 or a solid reliever. He’s a good number 2, and will require a plentiful bounty.
He is a solid pitcher, but the Rangers need those 4 prospects. where Scheppers, a top 10 Rangers prospect, and Engel Beltre another top 10, are expendable. Not to mention the likes of Julio Borbon. I’m just saying, the Rangers system is deep enough to where they could give a fair return without giving up those 4.
But do you really see Theo/Hoyer pulling the trigger on a deal to send their best player away without at least one? I don’t…
Garza is only under team control for two years. Remember, Theo is the dummy who signed Crawford to that mega contract. JD is smarter.
Theo actually knows minor league talent though. I don’t think you could fleece him with that. But I will give you he’s terrible in free agency.
Theo has won two World Series’. Daniels hasn’t won a single one. And please don’t give me the “if Cruz was playing one step back” thing. It doesn’t matter if they went to two in a row. There’s not trophy for second place.
Technically there’s the AL Championship trophy.
didn’t theo also give michael young his awful contract?
i am not impressed with this management at all. been a fan since 74. love my cubs. have a bad feeling we are going to be worse then last year and for years to come. they realize no matter what they put out their fans will come. we always have and until we stop going. they will never fix the problems. they make there money no matter what.
If the Rangers feel they can’t give up any of their top 4 prospects, they wouldn’t even be in discussions. It will take a lot more than an 8th and 10th prospect to land Garza, who posted the 13th best WAR for all pitchers in 2011 according to Fangraphs.
Bingo! Finally some sanity
i believe he posted the 15th best WAR in all of baseball in fact. either way that makes him an ACE, not a #2
How about a room temperature Woo-Hoo and a dirty counterfeit dime?
Olt is not an untouchable.
They claim they want a Ubaldo type return much like the White Sox are asking for Danks so I would thank the return that would get this deal for Garza done would look something like this.
Martin Perez / Jake Skole / Mike Olt / Jorge Alfaro
They won’t use Alfaro as a 4th prospect. He is maybe the most talented player in the system, or atleast in the group with Jordan Akins, David Perez, Mazaro, and Ronald Guzman.
Hmmmm interesting. Im assuming Profar will not be involved because of Castro.
Also, is it possible to “seek out” an overwhelming offer?
The general consensus is that Castro will be moved off of short stop sooner than later he is a horrible defender
He is actually awesome range wise from watching him, but he has to work on throwing mechanics. He is like Aramis at SS with better range. Just never know where the throw is gonna go.
Theo said he wanted him at short. He’s got great range but his throws are off and his decision making needs to improve. Give him time.
Yeah guys dont you remember Starlin being on the cover of SI with the big article titled “The Education of a Shortstop”?
Castro needs to be moved to 2nd and Barney to SS. You have to have the better defender at SS. It’s the most important position in baseball , SS then C then CF something the Cubs don’t have either of.
DO IT HENDRY, o wait.
Hendry would have traded Garza for Brian Roberts if he had the chance. Roberts is a pile of horses***.
Moreland, Perez, and another mid level prospect, get it done
If Texas is getting desperate, might as well try and take advantage.
Getting desperate? They have two #2 pitchers and 4 #3-4s…
Oops, double post.
Gotta think Olt is the main piece. Cubs need a 3B and Rangers are set with Beltre. But Cubs can’t move Garza without getting more pitching first…either back from the Rangers or in another deal.
I’m wondering if Theo is planning to trade Garza for at least two top level prospects and then go balls to the wall for Darvish. I just get a weird feeling that Theo loves Yu for some reason.
I mean Hoyer…lol. Yeah, not really.
He loved and failed miserably with Dice-K, did he learn his lesson yet? We shall see…..
Daisuke was unhittable before his injury. This is a risk you have to take into consideration when dealing with athletes, especially pitchers. If you wouldn’t take the 2008 version of “Dice-K”, there is something seriously wrong with you.
Unhittable is stretching it, the bases were always loaded, he just played Houdini all year.
Well, okay, all hyperbole aside, he was a top of the rotation pitcher (1-2 on most teams), before he was injured. Maybe not unhittable, but you know what I mean.
Well, okay, all hyperbole aside, he was a top of the rotation pitcher (1-2 on most teams), before he was injured. Maybe not unhittable, but you know what I mean.
He’s never had a WHIP under 1.324 in his entire career. In 2008 he walked 94 batters.
So, you wouldn’t want him on your team then?
Last year I would. But his constant nibbling can drive you crazy.
So, you wouldn’t want him on your team then?
I actually think Darvish is going to be really good. May need a year to adjust, but I’ve watched his stuff, and he is very Young. I’m thinking #2 is probably most likely, 3 worse case scenario, but a solid chance he is a top 10 pitcher in baseball within 3 years. I would have no issue with the Cubs pushing pretty hard considering they have zero Ace potential in their system.
Not the same pitcher. Yu wasn’t throwing 250 pitches a game for years.
Theo won’t get our 2 best prospects…Garza isn’t an ace.
Why not keep Garza and go after Darvish then. It’s not like they have to open up a spot in the rotation and Garza is reasonably priced.
is upgrade over harrison? lewis? worth these…”top prospects”?
You mean an upgrade over anyone the Rangers will have in their rotation next year? MAtt Garza had a great season last year. Dont let the numbers fool you
You really underestimate the Rangers rotation…
No. You really underestimate Matt Garza
I’ve watched Garza pitch since he’s been in the league. He is a really good pitcher, but Holland, Ogando, and Feliz have the chance to better than him. You’ll start to see that in about 4 months.
I just dont think we have seen the peak of Garza yet. He is only 27 coming off of his best season. Great stuff, but now hes polishing his all-around game
I would hope not, but his years leading up to this past year have been underwhelming. He pitched this year in th NL which to me makes a difference.
Yes he’s an upgrade over those two. He is however only a slight upgrade over Feliz and Ogando. He’s roughly as good as Holland post all star break.
You have no idea how good Feliz will be as a starter next year (or if Ogando will keep pitching at last years level for that matter).
GARRRRRZA
The Rangers are gauging the Cubs like they did with Bailey and the A’s…they’re not desperate to make a move when there are other options still out there…and yes, they can save their piggy banks for Darvish if that is how they choose.
No need to overpay, help from Japan is on the way 🙂
“Overwhelming offer” for Garza? Hey Theo, he’s not the second coming of Roger Clemens—he’s a .500 pitcher with an ERA of nearly 4.00.
You just quoted record and ERA. #fail
3.32 last year and 3.80 ERA for his career, much of which was in the AL east against the power lineups. you can’t just look at his record and decide he is just an average pitcher. He is a workhorse and a solid #2 on most MLB teams.
Shocking fail
Texas will have to install a spitoon around the mound for Garza, the human spitting machine, but tobacco is always in style in Texas, along with 10 gallon hats and good ‘ole 6 shooters eh 😉
Not knocking Garza for that habit. Could always tell from his Rays days when he would get flustered on the mound that way. He would tilt his head up, spit 2-3 times in a row more than normal, then circle the mound, spitting the entire time before getting back to the rubber.
Garza is a fine pitcher IMO and just as good as Gio Gonzalez, but would hate to see the Rangers overpay for him.. epstein is smart and knows Garza is about the only trade chip he has and is going to be slick with him.
He won’t swindle Jon Daniels…so i’m not worried.
Jon Daniels is over-rated.
The Cubs are overrated
I don’t see how that’s possible. They suck right now. Their farm system sucks. They have terrible contracts. Everyone knows all that though.
Yea, it was more of a joke..like the Cubs in general.
Good one.. That stung.. I look forward to seeing Holland, Ogando, and Feliz’s numbers next year and see how they stack up to Garza’s. If JD doesn’t want to give up any top prospects, that’s his decision. Personally I would rather lock Garza up for the next several years. Theo said he would have to be blown away with an offer to even consider trading Garza. Tons of deals break off every year because teams can’t come to an agreement. This is no different. If JD wants to spend $50 million (just as a posting fee, then he has to pay the same amount to sign him) to get an unproven pitcher from Japan instead, go for it. How many Japanese pitchers have dominated MLB over the years?
This discussion about Japanese pitchers has been beaten to death already. The problem with trading for Garza is just that, you have to trade good prospects. With Darvish, it’s just straight money. You don’t have to sacrifice your farm. Plus the posting fee doesn’t go towards your salary. We’ll all find out soon enough what he’s made of.
No doubt.. But you still have to pay through the nose on the posting fee before you can even negotiate with Darvish. When Theo won the bid for DiceK, he was as sure a pitcher that came from Japan that was ever seen. That didn’t work out well. For the money you will be paying for posting and then signing Darvish, you could have resigned CJ. And you still might not have the highest posting bid, so this could be moot.
Epstein got beaten to death for Matszaka,but the Red sox in all likelihood would not have even gotten to the 2007 WS, much less won it without him.
If you take what the raked in from that WS win, that 100m probably paid for itself just with what he gave them in 2007 alone.
Granted he really only had that 1 mediocre season and the 2008 season he was good, but still.. that 2007 season he played a pretty important part.
Considering he was the third best pitcher on the staff in 2007, I wouldn’t say he was worth the money the Red Sox paid for him.
I’ll give him credit for winning Game 7 in the ALCS that year, but he still wasn’t as valuable as Beckett and Schilling in the playoffs that year.If you’re going to shell out that kind of money for a Japanese pitcher, he better be you number one or two at the very least.
With the Rangers he will be number one by default. Whether he pitches like one remains to be seen.
Oh no, no.. Course he was not nearly as important as becket, who deserved to have won the Cy Young that year even and even Schill.but those innings he threw, his certain games inwhich he was outstanding they probably could not have done without that year was my point.
That 100m was tiny change to a locale like new England for marketing and exposure for what they gained with that WS win and it was not just here, but International in Japan that year as well. Okajima even.
I hear you. My point is that the Rangers will need for Darvish to pitch like an ace. In Boston, they already had Beckett and Schill.
If you still had Lee and Wilson, I think Darvish would fit in easily without the pressure of being an ace.Now with CJ going to the Angels, the Rangers are going to need a pitcher with more of a track record. You just don’t know with Darvish.
Lol @ the spittoon comment. Texas might be the perfect place for him 🙂
Personally, I’d rather the Cubs extend Garza now, instead of letting him go to another team. He is an absolute stud and is still well on the better side of 30. Any “prospects” we would get in return only have a 50-50 or worse chance of becoming Garza-esque. Why not keep Garza to anchor our rotation this year and try to work out a four or five year extension so he will still be around once we are contenders again?
Garza is a #2 at best. If they can get a couple of blue-chippers plus then it might be worth it to move him given the rebuild.
I would assert that he is a strong #2 and easily the best the Cubs have in the entire system. So their options are either stay with the known commodity or roll the dice on potential. They could end up with the next Mark Prior or they could end up with the next Justin Verlander. More likely, they’ll end up somewhere in the middle, which is less than what they have in Garza.
It was reported that the Rangers balked at including Feldman in the trade…there had to be more to the story than that though.
Olt is boarder line top 100 prospects. People normally don’t call it “untouchable.” That word goes to true elite prospects, such as Harper, Trout, Moore.. Rangers fans are really exaggerating their prospects. They have to realize recent studies shows that 1 out of 8 top 100 prospects live up to their hype. If they just want to offer low end guys then just forget about making trade and stick to their current rotation.
Ah, plus getting Darvish would be a hell of a job. He will easily cost 50m or more for posting and at least $80m to get his service for 6 yrs. So basically 22~23m per year for Darvish. Can Rangers really compete against desperate Yankees? Will they still have money to extend all of their guys expected to hit FA in a year or two?
They better not make any trades and just focus on their prospects. No dummies will trade their valuable proven asset for some garbage extra prospects. Plus, Olt is 24yrs old playing A+, hitting for .250 average while getting 200k in a full season pace. Maybe Rangers call it “untouchable” prospects but other farm systems generally don’t label that type of prospect “Untouchable.”
You don’t know what the Rangers offered the Cubs. Don’t assume it was a low offer. Knowing Jon Daniels it was a good offer, but he just isn’t going to get “beat” badly in a deal.
I don’t get how you can say that we’re overvalueing our prospects just because we’re saying some players are “untouchable” when it comes to Matt Garza…i’ll repeat…this is for Matt Garza. We’re not talking about an ace, whom ALL of the prospects would be on the table for.
Aside from that, prospects are all about the hype. According to your logic, prospects are so unlikely to be a hit, that teams should be giving up like 6-8 prospects per trade.
The balance of power in the AL West has changed!! And NOW so has the Rangers off season plans.
Now that the Angels have the best staff in the AL West (by far) and are the prohibitive favorites in the division, I can’t wait to see how JD ups his offer for prospects just to keep up.
AND now the rumor that the Angels are offering Trumbo to the A’s for Bailey. Well… you know how this is going to end and not well for the Rangers if they don’t bolster their staff.
Whether it’s for Garza or Gio, he now HAS to pay through the nose. There goes your top prospects.
Keep dreaming pal…the Rangers are still the best team in the AL West. It’ll take alot more than Pujols to make up the run differential between the Rangers and Angels.
You need to face the facts that Garza will not net y’all the ace haul you think he will. We are not going to up our offer for a guy that is not a clear improvement on our staff. Just because the Cubs were dumb and traded a big haul for him doesn’t make every other team in MLB dumb enough.
YOu shouldn’t talk so much about the Rangers when the Cubs still will not be able to make the playoffs despite the extra wild card.
You got it… “pal”. Whatever.
See.. I’m not worried and getting all defensive about it. I know you’re feeling jilted and stunned right now. That was a helluva blow dealt by the Angels that your Rangers took on the chin today. But being mean about it isn’t going to help. You guys are going to need to have a group hug. Well; buck up there fella.. Chin up.. Tomorrow is a new day. It will get better; someday.
Pay for Gio Gonzalez, I could care less. But no doubt, JD is going to give up top prospects now. There is no way the Rangers stay relevant with that pitching staff.
Garza would be THE ace if he were traded to the Rangers. Harrison?? Please..
If even Olt is untouchable, then the negotiation should not even start. That’s called a “low” offer. Angel Beltre and other prospects at similar levels are not impact prospects and there are tons of those in any other systems. I don’t think Theo is that dumb to accept mediocre prospects for their best trading asset. Unless the headline of package begins with either Profar or Perez, Cubs will just hang up the phone. If not ready to offer leigt prospect for proven MLB player, then don’t waste time and try luck on landing Darvish, spending minimum of 120m for 6 years of his service, while he could be another Japanese bust pitcher just like his buddies, Igawa and/or Dice-K.
lol so it’s “give us your best prospects for Matt Garza, because that Yu Darvish is going to be a bust.”
Yu Darvish has no bearing on this trade. The Rangers will have done their homework on Darvish. If that front office is confident in him then Rangers fans have reason to be confident in him. This front office, led by Jon Daniels, has earned that respect. They know what they’re doing.
Jon Daniels doesn’t lowball teams in trades. He always makes fair deals. You’re assuming that just because we’re unwilling to get clearly beaten in a trade that we’re making low offers….
Garza is NOT the kind of guy you put your best prospects on the table for. He is not Felix Hernandez no matter how much you want to think he is.
Well, Napoli worth much more than one year average reliever that’s for sure. What Daniels thinking fair value sounds million years away from what Theo is thinking a fair value. So the deal is unlikely. What I am questioning, is that does Rangers have 130m ready to get Darvish, competing against Yankees while having most of their core players hitting FA in a year or two? So it’d be smart to stick to what you already have, Felitz, Holland, Lewis, Feldman, Ogando, Harrison.
Why are you bringing up the Napoli trade? Neither side knew Napoli would have that kind of year…the Jays obviously didn’t think much of him…
And the Rangers have more than enough money to get Darvish if they choose too.
Why are you bringing up the Napoli trade? Neither side knew Napoli would have that kind of year…the Jays obviously didn’t think much of him…
And the Rangers have more than enough money to get Darvish if they choose too.
Well, Napoli worth much more than one year average reliever that’s for sure. What Daniels thinking fair value sounds million years away from what Theo is thinking a fair value. So the deal is unlikely. What I am questioning, is that does Rangers have 130m ready to get Darvish, competing against Yankees while having most of their core players hitting FA in a year or two? So it’d be smart to stick to what you already have, Felitz, Holland, Lewis, Feldman, Ogando, Harrison.
Ranger Fans:
When dealing with something that is a proven commodity like Garza, you have to give up high quality unproven talent. Low balling them with offers of Grimm, Engel Beltre, Robbie Ross, Tanner Scheppers, etc as the headliner is going to get us nowhere,
Offer them Moreland, Olt, Ross, and Beltre OR Harrison Ross and Beltre and see where that gets us. If it works, great. If not, just role with what we got because that is a lot better than most teams are working with.
Maybe even sign Darvish and get a nice return on Colby Lewis (who at 3 million and that nice road ERA should get nice piece).
Darvish
Garza
Holland
Ogando
Feliz
That is a VERY talented rotation, albeit one with a LOT of variabilty. But who on that staff doesn’t have the potential to be a top of the rotation guy next year? I think all of them could. With that, we could rival the Phillies and Angels as having the best roto in baseball. Plus we have that sick offense.
Just my thoughts.
The Harrison trade is the best I’ve seen on here, and I may be willing to include Harrison and Moreland in the same deal with a Ross or E.Beltre if we knew we could get prince. And that rotation has extreme amounts of potential, could use another lefty though. Trade colby to the reds for a prospect, mark Lowe to the red sox for Jed Lowrie.
Texas fans severely over valuing their prospects here. Garza is by no means an ace pitcher, but in what world is Olt an untouchable prospect?
I am not really behind the idea of trading Garza however if youre going to move him you have to get at least 3 ML prospects in return. I think that if Texas is going to get him the 2 guys that have to be in the discussion are Martin Perez and Mike Olt. Without those 2 Theo and Jed should just hang up the cell and move on. The other pieces are relatively interchangeable. Whether its Ross, Scheppers, Buckel, Mendez, Grimm, Lamb or possibly Barret Loux. All have different pros and cons and i think that one out of the Ross, Scheppers, or Grimm group along with the other 2 guys would be enough for Garzy. But like i said at the beginning. Garza doesnt have to be traded. He is still young. Has very good mechanics. Injury risk is always there with a pitcher but seemingly less so with his mechanics. And he is under team control for more than just this year.
Garza isn’t near good enough to get that return. He is not Ubaldo Jiminez so don’t try to compare that trade to this one.
Did i say one word about Ubaldo in my post? No. I also said that i dont believe that they HAVE to trade Garza. Theo and Co. have said that they want an overwhelming offer for Garza. Texas has got to be a little panicked with what has happened out in Anaheim. Texas has the lineup to compete with anyone. But their rotation is iffy. Who knows what Feliz is going to give you as a starter. They have been linked to Darvish but who knows what he will give you in year 1 if they can even sign him. Garza right now represents the best on the trade market and he also represents a known quantity. You know what youre going to get from him.
If you add up everything, known quantity, affordable, under team control for 2 years, best available pitcher on the market, no real need to move him. Chicago has all the leverage. Thats why it would take the type of package i brought up in order to get him.
Yeah looking from the outside about Garza to the Rangers, I would say the Cubs could easily ask what the Rockies did for Jiminez. I would ask for
Moreland/Olt
Perez
Schepper
Another pitching prospect
Garza would fit nicely with Texas. I wish they didn’t admit they aren’t confident. It wouldn’t take much the Cubs are in a rebuilding process all they need is at least one player who is ready for the ML level and a couple top 20 prospects.
why’s Theo looking to deal him ????
I think Theo is on the fence with Garza. There is no doubt that you want to keep and build around him. But because of Hendry and the previous ownership, the Cubs have a weak system at the upper levels.
So, if there is an offer that blows Theo away, I don’t see any reason not to at least consider it.
If you ask some of the Rangers fans on this board, they are trying to minimize Garza by calling him at number 2 pitcher at best and claim that JD won’t give up the farm for a number 2 pitcher. The stats speak otherwise.
baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1056…
If you look at his PVORP (Pitcher – Value Over Replacement), Garza is 9th in all of baseball from last season. Harrison is 21st. If the Rangers want Gio Gonzalez, he is 55th. Look at the other stats as well (FRA & FIP) and see how Garza matches up with Gio. Better to check a pitchers FRA over ERA. It tells more about the pitcher.
If JD would rather overpay to get Gio instead of Garza, fine by me. I would rather keep Garza anyway. I hope JD makes a trade within the division.