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Giants Acquire Pagan From Mets For Torres, Ramirez

By Luke Adams 2 | December 7, 2011 at 12:35pm CDT

The Giants and Mets have agreed on a deal that will send Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez to New York and Angel Pagan to San Francisco, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. The Giants will also receive a player to be named later or cash, according to a team release. The deal was announced by both clubs today.

All three players are arbitration eligible, and Torres in particular was a candidate to be non-tendered next week.  Both Torres and Pagan were valuable as regulars in 2010 but struggled in 2011, though the Mets were expected to tender Pagan a contract.  

Prior to the Giants' acquisition of Pagan, their outfield was expected to feature Aubrey Huff in left, Melky Cabrera in center, and Nate Schierholtz in right field.  Given the defensive inadequacies of Huff and Cabrera, Pagan might be a well-used fourth outfielder in San Francisco.  Pagan will be surely be motivated to earn regular playing time, as he's entering his contract year.  He projects to earn $4.7MM through arbitration for 2012.

The Mets can potentially control Torres for two years, and MLBTR estimates a salary of around $2.5MM in 2012.  He makes for a nice upside play for GM Sandy Alderson.  Alderson has also revamped his 2012 bullpen in the course of about an hour.  Ramirez is a useful, affordable addition, and the Mets also signed veteran relievers Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco (together again!)

GMs Alderson and Brian Sabean last matched up in late July, when the Mets traded Carlos Beltran and cash to the Giants for pitching prospect Zack Wheeler.

Tim Dierkes contributed to this post.

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New York Mets San Francisco Giants Transactions Andres Torres Angel Pagan Ramon Ramirez

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View Comments (279)
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279 Comments

  1. dc21892

    14 years ago

    Guess this spells the end of Beltran in SF.

    Reply
    • scott

      14 years ago

      The move saves them $2.5-3 Million, so maybe not. 

      Reply
      • Pepgrad

        14 years ago

        Are you sure about that? MLBTR projected arbitration #’s: Torres – 2.5m, Ramirez – 2.3m vs Pagan – 4.7m. Am I missing something?

        Reply
    • scott

      14 years ago

      The move saves them $2.5-3 Million, so maybe not. 

      Reply
    • Logjammer D"Baggagecling

      14 years ago

      That’s a good thing, that Beltran is not on the Giants, and personally i can’t stand it that a bunch of judy hitter won the WS. Guys like Cody Ross and Freddy Sanchez have never been good yet they won a WS. Not to mention Brian Wilson is a complete tool with that beard.

      Reply
      • Steve Layman

        14 years ago

        QQ

        Reply
  2. Lastings

    14 years ago

    Ramirez is a good piece, but really don’t want Torres instead of Pagan. I guess that’s the only way to have landed Ramirez.

    Reply
    • wholenewworld

      14 years ago

      Buy low. Sell lower.

      Reply
  3. Marky Mark

    14 years ago

    Niceee, solid move by alderson, pagan was such a frustrating player

    Reply
    • Grab some pine, meat.

      14 years ago

      Torres was as well.

      Reply
  4. dinoes

    14 years ago

    Good trade by Sabean.

    Reply
    • Michael J. Loera

      14 years ago

      NO, WRONG. Try again.

      Reply
      • dinoes

        14 years ago

        What’s wrong about the trade?

        Reply
        • wholenewworld

          14 years ago

          Well, for starters, the Giants are kinda collecting 4th OFers.

          (Not sure why)

          Reply
          • HowdIGetHere

            14 years ago

            Can’t afford to be shown up by the Dodgers’ quest to collect utility infielders.

            Reply
          • jza1218

            14 years ago

            Also the Giants made their bullpen weaker in the process.

            Reply
        • wholenewworld

          14 years ago

          Well, for starters, the Giants are kinda collecting 4th OFers.

          (Not sure why)

          Reply
  5. boogbite

    14 years ago

    I will miss you, Andres. Thanks for 2010. <3

    Reply
    • HowdIGetHere

      14 years ago

      I don’t care if it was only one outstanding year. Andres Torres was a good Giant.

      Reply
      • wholenewworld

        14 years ago

        I wish him well in NY. Hope he rebounds.

        Reply
      • wholenewworld

        14 years ago

        I wish him well in NY. Hope he rebounds.

        Reply
  6. Joveoak

    14 years ago

    Anything about Torres and Ramirez that we Mets fans should be worried about?

    Reply
    • Guest 5838

      14 years ago

      Well, Torres sucks, you should worry about that.

      Reply
      • Patrick Burke

        14 years ago

        if he’s a good defensive CF, fine with me.

        Reply
        • mmiller54

          14 years ago

          He is exceptional at defense.

          Reply
        • HowdIGetHere

          14 years ago

          Torres is a great defensive CF. No worries there.

          Reply
        • HowdIGetHere

          14 years ago

          Torres is a great defensive CF. No worries there.

          Reply
      • Sean Matrai

        14 years ago

        Ramirez doesnt though hes quite nice

        Reply
    • gmen_fever

      14 years ago

      He missed every breaking ball by about 2 feet last year.

      He also works out bear-footed in designer jeans during the offseason.

      I will forever be thankful for his 2010 that came out of absolute nowhere

      Reply
      • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

        14 years ago

        LMAO i remember that, doesnt he do it back in his home country puerto rico? Wears the designer jeans and lifts a concrete cinder block behind him and launches it?

        Reply
        • Tony DiQuattro

          14 years ago

          Yes… on DVD soon

          Reply
      • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

        14 years ago

        LMAO i remember that, doesnt he do it back in his home country puerto rico? Wears the designer jeans and lifts a concrete cinder block behind him and launches it?

        Reply
  7. 55saveslives

    14 years ago

    What the F for? Pagan is NOT a power bat or a SS which is what we need.  It doesn’t really free up any money either!

    Reply
    • dann

      14 years ago

      Just another player who cant hit for power to fill up the Giants roster.

      Reply
      • Guest 5837

        14 years ago

        But a slightly better one!

        Reply
      • bblh

        14 years ago

        He’s an ok hitting CF with speed, sorry, but that’s an upgrade.

        Reply
        • Reaper87

          14 years ago

          Plus it means there is an excuse to play Melky in a corner OF spot instead of CF, where the potential damage of his poor glove can be minimized

          Reply
    • dlineback

      14 years ago

      Well, he’s a leadoff hitter that can steal bases.. which is something the Giants didn’t have.

      Reply
      • guydavis

        14 years ago

        Not sure if you ever watched him lead off but he did not look comfortable. Pretty sure he said that he wasn’t comfortable doing it too. Very SSS though so shouldn’t be too worried about it.

        Reply
    • Dynasty22

      14 years ago

      You have one extra spot though.

      Reply
    • Grab some pine, meat.

      14 years ago

      You’re missing the point. Pagan is an offensive upgrade because he can get on base and steal, while Torres does a half-assed job at both. 19 steals last year… THAT’S IT. Pagan had 30 something.

      Reply
  8. CitizenSnips

    14 years ago

    Sure.

    Reply
  9. manoman12

    14 years ago

    Pretty much a wash.

    Reply
  10. Raymond Schwabacher

    14 years ago

    Hmmmmm. Initial reaction: Giants “win” this one

    Reply
    • Lunchbox45

      14 years ago

      Ramon Ramirez

      Reply
  11. Marky

    14 years ago

    Mets win this one because Ramirez is really good. The other two are basically the same player/wash.

    Reply
  12. Daniel Bimke

    14 years ago

    Gasp.

    Reply
  13. Guest 5839

    14 years ago

    Wow.

    Reply
  14. tacko

    14 years ago

    Umm, who leads off on the Mets now?

    Reply
    • vtadave

      14 years ago

      Does it matter?

      Reply
      • tacko

        14 years ago

        Yes, because there are 30 teams in baseball and every single one of those teams have games to play. Get off your high horse. Just because a club fields a mediocre team doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a fan base to play for. These “LOL METS DON’T MATTER CAUSE THEY SUCK” posts have been stale for the past 3 years.

        I get it. The Mets currently suck. But I like to root for my teams, even if they aren’t winning.

        Reply
        • Rabbitov

          14 years ago

          Why do you hate vtadave?

          Reply
        • Sean Matrai

          14 years ago

          The Mets don’t suck they now have a much better established bullpen and they have an underated offense who led the NL in most runs scored.Grant it a lot of that was because of the prense of Jose Reyes who is now in Miami.But they have a lot of positives coming up

          1.Zach Wheeler and Matt Harvey possibly Familla
          2.Flores(much better than some people think)
          3.Ike returning
          4.Tejada is a good ss much better defensivley than Reyes
          5.walls coming in,yes everyone forgets that
          6.a low possible Santana rebound.

          The Mets do not suck they are in a heavily competitve NL East I  will say they are better than some of the other teams out there.
           

          Reply
          • ApMatechak

            14 years ago

            when did they lead the nl in runs scored?

            Reply
          • Dan Hansen

            14 years ago

            Dude, I’m a Mets fan but don’t have the faith that you do. Reyes was a much better ss, hitter & stealer. Remember Tejada was sent back to the minors in 2010 b/c he was making errors left and right and couldn’t hit. Thankfully he did well coming back this year. So don’t get me wrong, I like Tejada and have high hopes for him! But I think he still needs some work.

            Ike may be returning, but they are talking about trading him and maybe even trading Murph – unbelievable.

            I don’t think we’ll see Zach Wheeler yet.
            Santana? Ugh.
            And let’s not forget Jason Bay. A great guy with a couple bad years. Hopefully things turn around for him in 2012.

            Even as mgmt & ownership destroys this team, I’m sure I’ll keep following and putting money in their pockets. What a dummy.

            Reply
      • tacko

        14 years ago

        Yes, because there are 30 teams in baseball and every single one of those teams have games to play. Get off your high horse. Just because a club fields a mediocre team doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a fan base to play for. These “LOL METS DON’T MATTER CAUSE THEY SUCK” posts have been stale for the past 3 years.

        I get it. The Mets currently suck. But I like to root for my teams, even if they aren’t winning.

        Reply
    • mistermonkey

      14 years ago

      Andres Torres.

      Reply
      • guydavis

        14 years ago

        No thank you.

        Reply
        • mistermonkey

          14 years ago

          Oh, I completely agree, but that would have to be the plan, no? Maybe they’ll non-tender Torres and sign Crisp?

          Reply
    • GriffeyandSizemore

      14 years ago

      Ramon Ramirez 

      Reply
    • Guest 5836

      14 years ago

      Ramon Ramirez.

      Reply
    • Rabbitov

      14 years ago

      Ramon Ramirez. 

      Reply
    • guydavis

      14 years ago

      Jason Bay possibly.

      Reply
    • Sean Matrai

      14 years ago

      they could easily sign a coco crisp to fix that or they could actually try and swap for B.J

      Reply
  15. WrigleyTerror37

    14 years ago

    i like this deal for both sides

    Reply
    • Greg Morse

      14 years ago

      Finally someone who understands baseball.  Great trade for both sides.  I am a die hard Giants fan and Torres is one of my favorites, however he sucked last year and I’m tired of him swinging at high and outside pitches.  Pagan is better than Torres….that’s the 2010 version.  2011 Torres I would rather have Brett Pill play center field.  Ramirez is a stud but always getting the deeper bullpen in trouble. 

      Reply
    • Greg Morse

      14 years ago

      Finally someone who understands baseball.  Great trade for both sides.  I am a die hard Giants fan and Torres is one of my favorites, however he sucked last year and I’m tired of him swinging at high and outside pitches.  Pagan is better than Torres….that’s the 2010 version.  2011 Torres I would rather have Brett Pill play center field.  Ramirez is a stud but always getting the deeper bullpen in trouble. 

      Reply
  16. LeoAcevedo

    14 years ago

    As a met fan LOVE PAGAN, but this is the right move . Gives a chance to Fernando Martinez i think (he’s done btw) but Torres is Decent to me and i always liked Ramirez , no complaints. Id rather see changes ! I think pagan is SUPER injury prone , but im a big fan of his work. I dnt see why SF did this theyre OUTFIELD DEPTH is krazy! Especially after getting melky, but i like this deal .

    Reply
    • mord13

      14 years ago

      dude, F-Mart is injury prone too, all he does is get hurt, they now need a center fielder in the worst way and they better sign someone else since I don’t believe that Ramirez is the answer at close.

      Reply
    • oleosmirf 2

      14 years ago

      Fernando Martinez was sent to the glue factory about 3-4 months ago. Where were you?

      Reply
    • mookie_and_doc

      14 years ago

      I would say it actually opens the door for Kirk Neiuwenhuis (sp?) if he recovers from injury and not Fernando Martinez who, frankly, I no longer consider a prospect.

      Reply
  17. dann

    14 years ago

    Another hitter who will not improve the giants offense whatsoever. Typical Sabean. Say bye to Lincecum. Unless the Giants offer him an 8 year deal he will be gone in 2 years. What pitcher wants to play for a team that continues to not score runs. Lincecum should have had 20 wins last year. Sabean you are pathetic.

    Reply
    • vtadave

      14 years ago

      Hi, I’m the 2010 World Series trophy.

      Reply
      • dann

        14 years ago

        Hi your right you are the 2010 world series trophy. Im a giants fan and Sabean got lucky that year. He didnt even want Cody Ross and Patt Burrell was released by the rays and was a lucky signing. Wake up its 2011 now.

        Reply
        • Rabbitov

          14 years ago

          He got lucky? I am laughing too hard to respond to that. 

          Reply
        • radicalpro

          14 years ago

          How do you luck into a World Series?  A lot of things have to go right.

          Reply
          • Reaper87

            14 years ago

            You luck into a series when you make the same caliber of moves you had been making to mixed results for years, then suddenly they all work out magnificently. I’m a big Giants fan, and they had a lot of pieces needed for a title run (pitching and lots of it), but there was a good amount of luck in how 2010 played out for them

            Reply
          • Reaper87

            14 years ago

            You luck into a series when you make the same caliber of moves you had been making to mixed results for years, then suddenly they all work out magnificently. I’m a big Giants fan, and they had a lot of pieces needed for a title run (pitching and lots of it), but there was a good amount of luck in how 2010 played out for them

            Reply
            • radicalpro

              14 years ago

              How was Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Bumgarner, Posey, Sanchez, lucky?  They were the core of the team.  Ross and Burrell turned out better than anyone expected but it’s a stretch to say, over a 162 game schedule and 3 playoff rounds, that they lucked into a WS.  Please.

              Reply
              • Reaper87

                14 years ago

                Staying incredibly injury-free almost all year, being forced to take Cody Ross (who easily could have been left off the post-season roster if MLB hadn’t come in and basically forced the Giants to leave Jose Guillen off), getting roughly half a seasons worth of the 30 homer Pat Burrell and not the one that showed up in 2011, letting your manager have your lefty specialist (Lopez) face way too many RHBs and not get burned by it… yeah, I think that all those had at least a little luck factor. Like I said, they had a lot of the necessary pieces to make a run, but it takes more than a handful of players to win a title, and 2010 was a perfect storm

                Reply
                • Rabbitov

                  14 years ago

                  Every single World Series championship ever has had some degree of luck involved.  You are obviously an intelligent poster, which is why I know you can’t really think that the Giants made it to (thats 162 games) and won a World Series based on luck.   

                  Reply
                • radicalpro

                  14 years ago

                  Well, then I guess in 2011 they were extremely unlucky.

                  Reply
                  • Sean Matrai

                    14 years ago

                    not a lot of teams repeat after winning in facty a lot of teams tend to be bad.

                    2006 Cards
                    2005 White Sox
                    1986 Mets(for a little bit)
                    2003 Marlins
                    2004 Red Sox(for a little bit)

                    Reply
              • Reaper87

                14 years ago

                Staying incredibly injury-free almost all year, being forced to take Cody Ross (who easily could have been left off the post-season roster if MLB hadn’t come in and basically forced the Giants to leave Jose Guillen off), getting roughly half a seasons worth of the 30 homer Pat Burrell and not the one that showed up in 2011, letting your manager have your lefty specialist (Lopez) face way too many RHBs and not get burned by it… yeah, I think that all those had at least a little luck factor. Like I said, they had a lot of the necessary pieces to make a run, but it takes more than a handful of players to win a title, and 2010 was a perfect storm

                Reply
            • radicalpro

              14 years ago

              How was Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Bumgarner, Posey, Sanchez, lucky?  They were the core of the team.  Ross and Burrell turned out better than anyone expected but it’s a stretch to say, over a 162 game schedule and 3 playoff rounds, that they lucked into a WS.  Please.

              Reply
          • gmen_fever

            14 years ago

            Its the Giants fans way. Everything that Sabean does that works out is luck. He obviously could never make a good deal

            Reply
            • Reaper87

              14 years ago

              A lot of fans do feel this way, the way I see it he took some chances and they all worked out in 2010. He’s not completely incapable of doing a good job, but he’s not a top GM like a lot of people wanted to say he was at this point last year. He’s still a guy who’s ok, not great, at his job

              Reply
    • boogbite

      14 years ago

      not so fast. our offense next year will definitely be better. will it be great? no, but in a pitcher’s park it should suffice. we only lost the west this year by 3 games without Posey for much of the year or Freddy for the last part. Giants also have Belt and Gary Brown to look forward to over the next few years. 

      Reply
      • Michael J. Loera

        14 years ago

        I know what the giants are capable of but when you start trading away pitchers like Ramirez then the Offense needs to get better, not stagnant.  Just another typical Sabean offseason.  High hopes and belittled dreams

        Reply
        • mmiller54

          14 years ago

          And the Dbacks have room to improve with Parker being in the rotation and potentially picking up Kuroda.

          Reply
        • Joanna Cabral

          14 years ago

          Why do people hate on Sabes so much? dude put a team together that brought a world series to SF!  He also put together one of the best if not the best pitching staff in the league. Do you thinks he chooses to not sign Pujols or Fielder? C’mon bro chill out and be thankful we have such a fun team to root for!
          Go Gigantes!

          Reply
          • gmen_fever

            14 years ago

            Its because he doesnt fully subscribe to sabermetrics (a fact that I like). People will never give him any credit for that sole reason.

            His teams never look great on paper (which is what people come to these types of sites for) but they usually win which is all I care about personally.

            Reply
            • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

              14 years ago

              yeah i tend to agree, pagan isnt what the lineup truly needs, he will help though.  but then again the offseason isnt close to being over. I think we should wait and see till its offically over. Their budget is tied up cause of zito and rowand, it hurts thinking about that.

              Reply
              • Sean Matrai

                14 years ago

                Congrats Sabean you got ripped off again, Pagan is nothing more than a upgrade of a bench player.Grant it in 2010 he did have a good season offensivley but in 2011 he was pathetic although he was injured.Btw defensivley hes terrible

                The Mets got a  nice reliever
                + a good bench player who is a good defensive outfielder

                Reply
            • H. Arshad

              14 years ago

              Agreed. The strategy matters less than being able to pull the ring out, and let’s face it – he did assemble the best homegrown pitching staff in baseball. It’s not like he was Omar Minaya-ing his way through the free agent list to make wins happen.

              Reply
              • Sean Matrai

                14 years ago

                agreed but in this year hes fallen under a rock for two terrible trades, have to give him credit for assembling a team that knocked out the favorite Phillies out of the playoffs

                Reply
          • michael

            14 years ago

            He spent years getting credit for the Giants being good, when in reality he had the best player of his generation and did frustratingly little to build around him. He used to have such an anti-draft stance that he would do things like sign Michael Tucker before he could be offered arbitration (when he probably would have been non-tendered) specifically to lose his first round pick. And now that he has an exceptional core due to strong drafting, he’s given it no offensive support, instead making silly signings like Rowand, DeRosa, etc. And then he does things like sign Aubrey Huff, who was extremely likely to regress, blocking an excellent prospect like Brandon Belt.

            Reply
      • Sean Matrai

        14 years ago

        if dont they get traded too lmafo

        Reply
    • Michael J. Loera

      14 years ago

      I agree with you 10000%, word for word.  I had a little ray of hope that it would be David Wright, but then i realized that it was Brian Sabean.  I think Torres had more upside than Pagan.  It should have been Pagan for Torres straight-up.

      Reply
      • Angel Becerra

        14 years ago

        look at the numbers again 

        Reply
        • Michael J. Loera

          14 years ago

          I did before i posted the comment.  i don’t need to look at the numbers to identify that torres is worth pagan.  I know what he’s capable of and the numbers he can put up, along with the leadership he brings.  You can’t look at numbers when you’re talking about heart.  They dont teach you that on any team.
           

          Reply
        • Michael J. Loera

          14 years ago

          I did before i posted the comment.  i don’t need to look at the numbers to identify that torres is worth pagan.  I know what he’s capable of and the numbers he can put up, along with the leadership he brings.  You can’t look at numbers when you’re talking about heart.  They dont teach you that on any team.
           

          Reply
      • Angel Becerra

        14 years ago

        look at the numbers again 

        Reply
      • dann

        14 years ago

        Yeah Sabean likes trading and signing players who hit less than 12 homeruns a year. Pagan hit 7 homeruns last year. How is 7 homeruns suppose to help the giants.

        Reply
        • Angel Becerra

          14 years ago

          you really thought torres was going to be any good again? i mean pagan had a few good years followed by a bad one last year did you see his 2010 season?

          Reply
          • Angel Becerra

            14 years ago

            seems to me like we found our leadoff hitter

            Reply
            • chemteck29

              14 years ago

              Might wanna rethink that,…Pagan hates hitting leadoff! lol

              Reply
        • modizzle

          14 years ago

          thats more home runs than Torres and Ramirez hit

          Reply
      • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

        14 years ago

        david wright? So you wanna gut the farm system even more? Pagan is younger and stole 30+ bases these last two years. More than andres ever could. Andres is gonna be 34? How does he have more upside with one “flash in the pan” season in 2010?

        Reply
        • Michael J. Loera

          14 years ago

          So you’re saying that you would want pagan because he steals 10 more bases than torres?  Is that 10 extra bases really worth Ramon Ramirez?  I didnt say i was hoping they “gut the farm system” i was hoping that we could get wright for torres and ramirez, WHILST eating a majority of their salaries.  

          Reply
          • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

            14 years ago

            hes better than torres thats a fact, some good OBP’s in his career. Im not happy with ramirez gone, that hurts obviously. Seems like they could have got something better with ramirez in the package i agree. 
            Yeah ramirez and torres for david wright, while eating salary. Give the mets about 8 beers, than propose that again. Why would they not want future talent for david wright thus “gutting the farm system”? Wheeler for beltran? but just salary relief and torres and ramirez for wright?  One of the mets franchise players whos in his prime. No sweat.

            Reply
          • modizzle

            14 years ago

            Hembree!

            Reply
          • H. Arshad

            14 years ago

            That would never happen – Wright for Torres and Ramirez. Wright’s trade value is at an all-time low because he played a big part of last year with a broken back. He’d require something like Andres Torres, Sergio Romo, and Gary Brown to come over, and no less. Not saying the Giants would make that trade but that’s more around what the Mets would ask for Wright. Mets fans also know Wright’s past his prime but he’s still one of the better offensive 3Bs in baseball when healthy.

            Edited to add: Why would you want Wright when you have Pablo Sandoval playing 3B?

            Reply
      • modizzle

        14 years ago

        The Giants have a third baseman and wright isn’t mobile enough to play SS.

        Pagan is 30 years old with a career 279/331/418  Torres is 32 years old with a career 244/318/403Plus moving Ramirez is quickly replaced with Hembree.where is the upside?

        Reply
    • dinoes

      14 years ago

      Get over it, you actually thought the Giants were gonna get a power bat like  Pujols or Fielder? Pagan has the speed we lacked. 

      Reply
    • Rabbitov

      14 years ago

      Except that its only December. . . When did Giants fans start hitting the panic button for no reason? 

      Reply
      • jordan4giants

        14 years ago

        We panic, its kind of our thing. 

        Reply
        • modizzle

          14 years ago

          we have Panik.. which is going to be our thing 

          Reply
      • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

        14 years ago

        some of us think if you can be a good GM on MLB 2k11 or MLB the show then why cant you do it in real life.

        Reply
        • Joanna Cabral

          14 years ago

          Sure sound like it.

          Reply
      • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

        14 years ago

        some of us think if you can be a good GM on MLB 2k11 or MLB the show then why cant you do it in real life.

        Reply
      • radicalpro

        14 years ago

        You think this is the panic button, you should read the Giants blog forums.  They will rant about Sabean’s bad contracts day after day after day……

        Reply
        • Rabbitov

          14 years ago

          From a completely neutral observer, I really think Sabean is doing a pretty good job.  

          Reply
  18. GOTIGERS24

    14 years ago

    I hope this still means the Tigers can get Daniel Murphy by trading Dirks or possible Raburn

    Reply
    • BluEandOrange

      14 years ago

      Daniel Murphy is a proven .300 hitter that would do wonders in the American League as DH. However, Murphy is a solid corner infielder who could see an increase in value if he can find time at second.

      Andy Dirks and Ryan Raburn are not going to land the Tigers Daniel Murphy.

      If anything, with the loss of Reyes, Daniel Murphy is the starting second baseman for the Mets to make up the loss of Reyes’ offense. 

      Reply
      • GOTIGERS24

        14 years ago

        Andy Oliver and Andy Dirks I think that could get a deal done

        Reply
      • GOTIGERS24

        14 years ago

        Andy Oliver and Andy Dirks I think that could get a deal done

        Reply
  19. wholenewworld

    14 years ago

    Well….uhhh….ok

    Reply
  20. moses0507

    14 years ago

    Great Trade for mets.

    Reply
  21. Triple Hawpes Brewed

    14 years ago

    Yawn…what a boring trade that further solidifies the Mets as the 4th/5th place team in the NL East.

    Reply
    • JaySchu

      14 years ago

      Uhhh, duh? It’s a pretty open secret they’re in rebuilding mode. Good job stating the obvious by calling them a 4th/5th place team.

      Reply
      • Rabbitov

        14 years ago

        Obviously they weren’t a 4th or 5th place team until this trade happened.  Next offseason everyone will be talking about the trade that killed the Mets season. 

        Reply
  22. diehardmets

    14 years ago

    WTF is this? Pagan could have been turned into something useful had he rebounded, and now we have two worthless pieces instead. Wonderful. 

    Reply
    • alxn

      14 years ago

      How exactly are they worthless? Torres was one of the best players in all of baseball in 2010 and Ramirez is a very capable relief pitcher. Even if you concede that Pagan is more likely to turn it around than Torres, Ramirez pushes the deal into the Mets’ favor.

      Reply
      • BluEandOrange

        14 years ago

        Relying on bullpen guys to be consistent is like trying to throw a strike with a tornado between home plate and the mound. 

        Angel Pagan had a terrific 2010 and was injured for most of 2011. He is worth more than both Ramon Ramirez and Andres Torres. Starting caliber position players over bullpen pitchers every day of the week. 

        Reply
        • jordan4giants

          14 years ago

          If there is a tornado between me and home plate, I don’t care about throwing a strike, I’m getting the heck outta there!! 

          Reply
        • H. Arshad

          14 years ago

          The Mets did a terrible job of shutting down games in 2011. A solid bullpen is an underrated way of winning. The 2010 Padres, 2010 Giants, and 2011 Braves are good examples. By bringing in Ramon Ramirez, Frank Francisco, and Jon Rauch, the Mets won’t be great but they’ll be decidedly better than the Ryota Igarashi/Pedro Beato/etc. Mets of 2010.

          It’s pretty much a wash between Pagán and Torres though I think Pagán is the slightly better player. Once you include Ramon Ramirez in the trade, though, it’s pretty clear the Mets got the better end of this deal. That said, I’m sure the Giants have some minor league pitcher that will be able to step in and take Ramirez’ role.

          Reply
      • Rabbitov

        14 years ago

        I’d take the Mets side any day, but honestly, for me its pretty close.  If Pagan regains form he is dangerous, and I think the chances are way better for Pagan than Torres. 

        Reply
      • Rabbitov

        14 years ago

        I’d take the Mets side any day, but honestly, for me its pretty close.  If Pagan regains form he is dangerous, and I think the chances are way better for Pagan than Torres. 

        Reply
      • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

        14 years ago

        torres is gonna be 34 and had a career year in 2010

        Reply
  23. manoman12

    14 years ago

    Wow, a win-win for both sides.

    Reply
    • Guest 5835

      14 years ago

      or a who-cares for both sides.

      Reply
      • Martin Piña Ordiales

        14 years ago

        “The San Francisco Giants advanced to the National League Championship Series after a 3-2 victory over the Atlanta Braves at Turner Field Monday evening.” 2010

        Reply
        • Guest 5834

          14 years ago

          This is an event that happened… Yes.

          Reply
          • candlestick22

            14 years ago

            Here’s another event that happened:

            9/29/2011:
            Braves Complete Colossal Collapse, Lose To Phillies In Extra Innings

            Really? A Braves fan and you’re going to come in here and troll??? Just stop.

            Reply
        • Guest 5834

          14 years ago

          This is an event that happened… Yes.

          Reply
      • bubba91

        14 years ago

        or a who cares because your teams not involved? 

        Reply
      • rundmc1981

        14 years ago

        As a Braves fan, it’s a win-win for both sides. I’m glad NYM finally made a trade that could benefit them in multiple ways and they could have even found a closer in Ramon Ramirez. 

        Pagan has looked great and it’ll be nice to see him given a fresh start to see what he can really do. Glad to see the man that represents good and evil in one name is taking his talents to the Bay.

        Reply
    • wholenewworld

      14 years ago

      If both sides win twice…then SOMEone has to account for the 4 loses…

      Oakland, c’mere!

      Reply
    • wholenewworld

      14 years ago

      If both sides win twice…then SOMEone has to account for the 4 loses…

      Oakland, c’mere!

      Reply
  24. Michael J. Loera

    14 years ago

    Hogwash

    Reply
  25. PSUphilsfan25

    14 years ago

    was this the trade that would “change their core”?

    Reply
  26. drumzalicious

    14 years ago

    huh?

    Reply
  27. Frank

    14 years ago

    Nice Trade for the Mets… Hell, its a start…

    Reply
    • Tko11

      14 years ago

      Start to what?

      Reply
  28. bubba91

    14 years ago

    Why trade one of your better arms in the pen and torres for pagan? weres he going to start!?!?! stupid move and could of done better. smh -_-

    Reply
    • dinoes

      14 years ago

      Im glad they traded ramirez, him blowing leads was so frustrating. 

      Reply
    • rainyperez

      14 years ago

      Ramirez is expendable as a right handed thrower. The Giants have arms to replace him in the bullpen with. Now if it was Lopez or Romo I would be steamed.

      Reply
      • BeisbolJunkie

        14 years ago

        Or Affeldt… That would be tragic.

        Reply
    • Robert Emerich

      14 years ago

      2 words Heath Hembree

      Reply
    • Robert Emerich

      14 years ago

      2 words Heath Hembree

      Reply
  29. Dave 32

    14 years ago

    Haha, yet another confusing and/or horrible trade in SF.  I have absolutely no idea why you would swap outfielders that are both mediocre AND throw in a pitcher to make the deal happen.  

    Reply
  30. dylanp5030

    14 years ago

    Ramirez is a very nice pick up for the Mets. If they can get KRod they’re BP will atleast be in good shape. That line-up, on the other hand, not so much.

    Hopefully Johan and Wright have big first halves and they can trade them for a bunch of young AA+ prospects and turn their franchise around.

    Reply
    • H. Arshad

      14 years ago

      Wright maybe, Johan less likely. Remember that he has a huge contract and hasn’t pitched successfully in over a year. It may take more than a successful half to sway a GM. And we’ll have to eat a shit-ton of salary, anyway.

      Reply
  31. oaklandfan22

    14 years ago

    Mets win this one ramirez is solid in the pen

    Reply
  32. Conebone69

    14 years ago

    In reality, it’s Ramirez for Pagan..which is fine

    Torres should be considered minor league fodder

    Reply
  33. JaySchu

    14 years ago

    The trade was for Ramirez. Torres is not the long term CF (neither would Pagan have been). Good trade by Alderson.

    Reply
  34. slogar1

    14 years ago

    Goodbye Cody Ross.

    Reply
    • Frank

      14 years ago

      Yeah, Ross aint coming back…

      Reply
  35. dahnthemahn90

    14 years ago

    Although Pagan had a miserable obp last year, he would be a better leadoff hitter than Melky. With that being said, maybe the Giants trade flip Melky for some cheap prospects and clear enough salary to resign Beltran. I’m sure Beltran would like to play in the of with Pagan again… let’s hope this is what happens because otherwise our offense is really going to struggle.

    Reply
    • BeisbolJunkie

      14 years ago

      I felt the same way, but I’ve been keeping an eye on Brandon Belt’s winter ball progress. He’s playing in the DR to get more time in LF. His stats are really good.

      Reply
  36. PaganIdolCow

    14 years ago

    Decent little trade for the Mets, though it is funny that someone with a screen name like mine would be commenting on a Pagan trade.

    Reply
  37. pb111

    14 years ago

    Pagan hits leadoff and plays CF and Melky plays a corner spot.  I think the SF wins this move big time.

    Reply
  38. Angel Becerra

    14 years ago

    belt’s playing time just went down the drain

    Reply
    • dlineback

      14 years ago

      Belt plays 1st

      Reply
      • giantsfan4life

        14 years ago

        Not with Bochy’s buddy Huff and his .225 BA at 1B everyday.

        Reply
        • dlineback

          14 years ago

          Bochy already came out and said Huff will play mostly LF next year, which I’m sure will leave Belt at 1B. Schierholtz is the one who gets shafted from the outfield if Pagan plays CF.

          Reply
          • giantsfan4life

            14 years ago

            Huff in left is FAR worse than Huff at 1B….

            Reply
            • dlineback

              14 years ago

              Oh, believe me, I completely agree.. but I’m just repeating what I’ve heard. I’d rather see Huff ride the pine, let Belt play LF and give Pill a shot at 1B.

              Reply
          • giantsfan4life

            14 years ago

            Huff in left is FAR worse than Huff at 1B….

            Reply
          • BeisbolJunkie

            14 years ago

            They sent him to play winter ball in DR so they could move him to LF. Depth Charts now Belt @ LF

            Reply
          • pitnick

            14 years ago

            What Bochy said is that Huff “could” get a lot of playing time in LF next year. 

            Reply
        • dlineback

          14 years ago

          Bochy already came out and said Huff will play mostly LF next year, which I’m sure will leave Belt at 1B. Schierholtz is the one who gets shafted from the outfield if Pagan plays CF.

          Reply
      • Angel Becerra

        14 years ago

        he was going to play lf

        Reply
      • Angel Becerra

        14 years ago

        he was going to play lf

        Reply
      • Reaper87

        14 years ago

        Try again (for this year anyway). Bochy won’t even consider Belt at 1st with Huff there, especially since Posey is going to have to play some there to let up on his legs from catching.

        Reply
        • dlineback

          14 years ago

          Bochy has already come out and said Huff will be playing mostly LF next year.

          Reply
          • Reaper87

            14 years ago

            I must have missed that, but unless Huff drastically improves, him in LF is a huge mistake. The brief period he was there last year was a complete disaster, so I hope that’s more of a “we’ll give him a chance, but he only stays there if he earns it”.

            Reply
          • williemaysfield

            14 years ago

            That was before the trade for Pagan.  Melkly now moves to LF and Huff mostly at 1B.  The bad part is Belt get benched…

            Reply
        • Angel Becerra

          14 years ago

          exactly what i was getting to unless belt lights it up in st and beats out nate which i wouldnt want that

          Reply
      • Reaper87

        14 years ago

        Try again (for this year anyway). Bochy won’t even consider Belt at 1st with Huff there, especially since Posey is going to have to play some there to let up on his legs from catching.

        Reply
  39. roberty

    14 years ago

    Solid move for the Mets.  Pagan and Torres have similar skill sets, and Ramirez is pretty nasty. 

    Reply
    • Tko11

      14 years ago

      Nasty in what sense???

      Reply
  40. dahnthemahn90

    14 years ago

    I also thought the only reason the Giants wanted to trade Ramirez was for salary relief. But Pagan is going to make as much as Ramirez and Torres combined.

    Reply
  41. radicalpro

    14 years ago

    Torres was going to be non-tendered most likely anyway; they weren’t going to pay him the estimated $2.2M.  So it’s Ramirez for Pagan which should help both sides.

    Reply
  42. Dynasty22

    14 years ago

    Kind of like the AZ/TOR deal last year. Nice move.

    Reply
  43. Michael J. Loera

    14 years ago

    I WILL FIGHT BRIAN SABEAN

    Reply
  44. Darmintak

    14 years ago

    More light hitting outfielders!

    Reply
  45. Darmintak

    14 years ago

    More light hitting outfielders!

    Reply
  46. radicalpro

    14 years ago

    Can someone give me a report on Pagan outside the numbers? 

    Just to share my perspective:  Torres pretty much came out of nowhere to have a career year in 2010 and very disappointing year in 2011.  Was a sparkplug at the top of the lineup and showed some good pop, but didn’t walk as much as you’d like for a lead-off guy (although not a complete free swinger) and was criticized by some for swinging for the fences too much (he does use a very heavy bat).  Good locker room guy, excellent defense in CF, average arm.  Very good speed but not a huge SB guy.  Switch hitter but was seen as much weaker from the right side. 

    From what I’ve read Pagan seems similar to Torres except has a bit more speed whereas Torres had a bit more pop.

    Ramirez was very good last year.  He was initially acquired b/c he was good at getting righties out but turned into a very good reliever, maybe one of the best 7th inning guys out there.

    Reply
  47. wrestlingcritic

    14 years ago

    Great pickup by the Mets

    Reply
  48. wrestlingcritic

    14 years ago

    Great pickup by the Mets

    Reply
  49. bigbird24

    14 years ago

    Ramirez is old enough now that he is due to break down.  Relievers like him are a dime a dozen after 4-5 years in the bigs so I’m fine with getting something for him before he loses that last couple MPH on his fastball and becomes hittable. 

    The Sox had him when he threw mid 90’s, now he’s down to 90-91.  When you drop below that as the kind of pitcher he is, good luck.

    Reply
  50. scott

    14 years ago

    This moves will save the giants around 2.5-3 Million and helps move Cabrera out of CF, so that is a plus for the Giants. Ramirez could hurt a bit as he was pretty productive for the giants. With another trade on the horizon, hopefully the Giants can get enough money to get a power bat. For the Mets, adding Ramirez is a plus, but Torres isn’t much other than a 4th outfielder with really good D, oh and you added salary. 

    Reply
    • rainyperez

      14 years ago

      Angel Pagan had 10 errors last season. Yikes. Also listening to KNBR they had reports that Angel Pagan and the Mets couldn’t wait to get away from each other. Something about his attitude. Eric Byrnes host of KNBR apparently got a text from a Major Leaguer who said the same thing about Pagan.

      Hopefully Pagan just needs a change of scenery. 

      Reply
      • sports33

        14 years ago

        The more “Yikes!” part of that is that you still use errors as a stat of value

        Reply
      • sports33

        14 years ago

        The more “Yikes!” part of that is that you still use errors as a stat of value

        Reply
      • newsman13

        14 years ago

        here in new york, pagan was considered a cancer in the clubhouse.  i thought the giants got rid of one of those at short.

        this trade is typical sabean.  now no wheeler…no beltran and a five million dollar pagan contract as an excuse.

        Reply
    • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

      14 years ago

      yeah i agree 100%. good analysis. I think they plan on getting some type of power bat eventually in december or janurary

      Reply
  51. Bye Bye Baby Bonanza

    14 years ago

    Now trade Keppinger.

    Reply
  52. Charles Frank Omnislash

    14 years ago

    I love this move for the Giants. Our money is locked up in our rotation, and despite what people think, we don’t NEED power… We need defense and some people to get on and hit in at the top of the line up… Pagan, Sanchez, Sandoval, Posey, Huff, Cabrera, Schierholtz (and whomever is playing SS)… How do you NOT like this line up for what the Giants have given up? 

    Reply
  53. Charles Frank Omnislash

    14 years ago

    I love this move for the Giants. Our money is locked up in our rotation, and despite what people think, we don’t NEED power… We need defense and some people to get on and hit in at the top of the line up… Pagan, Sanchez, Sandoval, Posey, Huff, Cabrera, Schierholtz (and whomever is playing SS)… How do you NOT like this line up for what the Giants have given up? 

    Reply
  54. candlestick22

    14 years ago

    (in reply to FourFeathers above ^^^) Yeah, a 300 lb dwarf at 3rd. I bet no other team would want him. All credibility lost on that one.

    Reply
  55. candlestick22

    14 years ago

    (in reply to FourFeathers above ^^^) Yeah, a 300 lb dwarf at 3rd. I bet no other team would want him. All credibility lost on that one.

    Reply
    • genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

      14 years ago

      LOL yeah i know, its a troll post

      Reply
  56. icedrake523

    14 years ago

    “the Mets also signed veteran relievers Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco (together again!)”

    This line made me think of “Ebony & Ivory”

    Reply
  57. icedrake523

    14 years ago

    “the Mets also signed veteran relievers Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco (together again!)”

    This line made me think of “Ebony & Ivory”

    Reply
  58. ThoughtsFromTheCove

    14 years ago

    Gotta say, if this is what the Giants’ offseason is shaping up to be, it’s been pretty disappointing–unless, of course, they really ARE clearing up cap space to make a move on somebody noteworthy. With as much revenue as they grossed in 2010 with memorabilia and ticket sales (and the fact that the stadium’s paid off), it’s hard to believe that they’re on as tight a budget as Sabean claims. It’s too bad to see the G-Men move one of the key bridges in that bullpen, especially if it is just to save a few bucks.

    Reply
  59. modizzle

    14 years ago

    Pagan is 30 years old with a career 279/331/418  
    Torres is 32 years old with a career 244/318/403

    Plus moving Ramirez is quickly replaced with Hembree.

    Giants win!

    Reply
  60. BeisbolJunkie

    14 years ago

    Hector Sanchez is killing it in winter ball. I bet he becomes Posey’s backup or better yet, a platoon

    Reply
  61. CBR1000Rider

    14 years ago

    ok fellow giants fan lets show some respect our Giants were really bad for a number of years and we stuck by our team dont disrepect mets fans bc they stick by there team win or lose. I dont really see how either team improved with this trade, but met fans will love to watch Torres in center field. He is a great defensive player. and he was a great lead off man in 2010.

    Reply
  62. Patrick the Pragmatist

    14 years ago

    If the Giants need lead-off help,  they should call the Mariners.

    Pretty sure that Chone Figgins can easily be had.

    Reply
  63. Wilsonl

    14 years ago

    Nice, good pickup for the Giants!

    Reply
  64. Barrettman84

    14 years ago

    I’m all up for trading a disgruntled player for a good middle-relief pitcher and an outfield who can easily replace a disgruntled player. Pagan definitely did his thing for NYM, so i wish him in the best in SF. As for Torres, I honestly see him as a contributor to this team; leadoff batter at CF.

    Reply
  65. Rick Garcia

    14 years ago

    I like all the moves Sandy has made so far. Not expecting a playoff run but the season will be interesting to watch.

    Reply
  66. hgr900

    14 years ago

    I always thought of Pegan and Torres as the same player

    Reply
  67. davcamp

    14 years ago

    I don’t see anything wrong with this trade – we get a decent leadoff hitter who has motivation to perform (FA after this year, I believe).  Huff can play if he has motivation too, or drop him like a bad habit and play a kid at first.  We were going to toss away Torres, and had plenty of arms to drop in the bullpen.  It’s a win-win for both teams. 

    Reply
  68. RealGiantsFan

    14 years ago

    Its a good move all the way around. Torres wasnt getting the job done from the lead off spot. Great defensive player but thats the last thing we need in a weak offense already. Pagan will be some ne fire plus what people forget is that pagan and beltran are really good friends. So it may look 2 times better now to beltran having pagan there.

    If they re-sign Beltran this is the OF. LF-Cabrera CF-Pagan RF-Beltran. And Schierholtz will get spot starts and Belt will play 1B cause Huff isnt projecting anything better than what he did last year.

    Reply
  69. H. Arshad

    14 years ago

    That’s sarcasm, right? Daniel Murphy, is, bear in mind, the Mets’ projected starting 2nd baseman for 2012 now that Reyes is in Florida. If you switch out Andy Oliver for Drew Smyly, it sounds more likely. That said, the Mets have more outfield depth, especially lefty, than they have solid 2B options.

    Reply
  70. Brian Olson

    14 years ago

    great job by sabes. buy low/sell high. we got ramirez for nothing from the sox. put him in a bullpen thats dominant. he looked good. but c’mon he’s not going to repeat it and he’s not going to come close in a met uni. plus torres wouldnt have made the team this year.

    Reply
  71. menschg

    14 years ago

    watching in NY  angel pagan is a good guy who sometimes doesnt have his head in the game..when he does he’s very good like in ’10..collins didnt like him for some reason..now melky is a better fielder with a great arm and hits in the clutch..both angel and melky will hit about 285/15hrs/75rbi..they are both fast and will steal bases but pagan is not a typical leadoff hitter..he likes swinging the bat..i hope angel and the melkman deliver for the giants

    Reply
    • Patricio

      14 years ago

      Is this Brian Sabean?

      Reply
  72. theguy17

    14 years ago

    The Giants will also recieve a PTBNL or cash.

    Reply
  73. newsman13

    14 years ago

    no better bats thanks to an inept general manager means more games where if you give up a run you have a 50 50 chance of losing.

    Reply
  74. h3gt

    14 years ago

     Ugh…more mediocre players….just what we need.

    Reply
  75. chee1rs

    14 years ago

    wow ====== yard sale

    Reply

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