The Giants and Mets have agreed on a deal that will send Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez to New York and Angel Pagan to San Francisco, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. The Giants will also receive a player to be named later or cash, according to a team release. The deal was announced by both clubs today.
All three players are arbitration eligible, and Torres in particular was a candidate to be non-tendered next week. Both Torres and Pagan were valuable as regulars in 2010 but struggled in 2011, though the Mets were expected to tender Pagan a contract.
Prior to the Giants' acquisition of Pagan, their outfield was expected to feature Aubrey Huff in left, Melky Cabrera in center, and Nate Schierholtz in right field. Given the defensive inadequacies of Huff and Cabrera, Pagan might be a well-used fourth outfielder in San Francisco. Pagan will be surely be motivated to earn regular playing time, as he's entering his contract year. He projects to earn $4.7MM through arbitration for 2012.
The Mets can potentially control Torres for two years, and MLBTR estimates a salary of around $2.5MM in 2012. He makes for a nice upside play for GM Sandy Alderson. Alderson has also revamped his 2012 bullpen in the course of about an hour. Ramirez is a useful, affordable addition, and the Mets also signed veteran relievers Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco (together again!)
GMs Alderson and Brian Sabean last matched up in late July, when the Mets traded Carlos Beltran and cash to the Giants for pitching prospect Zack Wheeler.
Tim Dierkes contributed to this post.
Guess this spells the end of Beltran in SF.
The move saves them $2.5-3 Million, so maybe not.
Are you sure about that? MLBTR projected arbitration #’s: Torres – 2.5m, Ramirez – 2.3m vs Pagan – 4.7m. Am I missing something?
The move saves them $2.5-3 Million, so maybe not.
That’s a good thing, that Beltran is not on the Giants, and personally i can’t stand it that a bunch of judy hitter won the WS. Guys like Cody Ross and Freddy Sanchez have never been good yet they won a WS. Not to mention Brian Wilson is a complete tool with that beard.
QQ
Ramirez is a good piece, but really don’t want Torres instead of Pagan. I guess that’s the only way to have landed Ramirez.
Buy low. Sell lower.
Niceee, solid move by alderson, pagan was such a frustrating player
Torres was as well.
Good trade by Sabean.
NO, WRONG. Try again.
What’s wrong about the trade?
Well, for starters, the Giants are kinda collecting 4th OFers.
(Not sure why)
Can’t afford to be shown up by the Dodgers’ quest to collect utility infielders.
Also the Giants made their bullpen weaker in the process.
Well, for starters, the Giants are kinda collecting 4th OFers.
(Not sure why)
I will miss you, Andres. Thanks for 2010. <3
I don’t care if it was only one outstanding year. Andres Torres was a good Giant.
I wish him well in NY. Hope he rebounds.
I wish him well in NY. Hope he rebounds.
Anything about Torres and Ramirez that we Mets fans should be worried about?
Well, Torres sucks, you should worry about that.
if he’s a good defensive CF, fine with me.
He is exceptional at defense.
Torres is a great defensive CF. No worries there.
Torres is a great defensive CF. No worries there.
Ramirez doesnt though hes quite nice
He missed every breaking ball by about 2 feet last year.
He also works out bear-footed in designer jeans during the offseason.
I will forever be thankful for his 2010 that came out of absolute nowhere
LMAO i remember that, doesnt he do it back in his home country puerto rico? Wears the designer jeans and lifts a concrete cinder block behind him and launches it?
Yes… on DVD soon
LMAO i remember that, doesnt he do it back in his home country puerto rico? Wears the designer jeans and lifts a concrete cinder block behind him and launches it?
What the F for? Pagan is NOT a power bat or a SS which is what we need. It doesn’t really free up any money either!
Just another player who cant hit for power to fill up the Giants roster.
But a slightly better one!
He’s an ok hitting CF with speed, sorry, but that’s an upgrade.
Plus it means there is an excuse to play Melky in a corner OF spot instead of CF, where the potential damage of his poor glove can be minimized
Well, he’s a leadoff hitter that can steal bases.. which is something the Giants didn’t have.
Not sure if you ever watched him lead off but he did not look comfortable. Pretty sure he said that he wasn’t comfortable doing it too. Very SSS though so shouldn’t be too worried about it.
You have one extra spot though.
You’re missing the point. Pagan is an offensive upgrade because he can get on base and steal, while Torres does a half-assed job at both. 19 steals last year… THAT’S IT. Pagan had 30 something.
Sure.
Pretty much a wash.
Hmmmmm. Initial reaction: Giants “win” this one
Ramon Ramirez
Mets win this one because Ramirez is really good. The other two are basically the same player/wash.
Gasp.
Wow.
Umm, who leads off on the Mets now?
Does it matter?
Yes, because there are 30 teams in baseball and every single one of those teams have games to play. Get off your high horse. Just because a club fields a mediocre team doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a fan base to play for. These “LOL METS DON’T MATTER CAUSE THEY SUCK” posts have been stale for the past 3 years.
I get it. The Mets currently suck. But I like to root for my teams, even if they aren’t winning.
Why do you hate vtadave?
The Mets don’t suck they now have a much better established bullpen and they have an underated offense who led the NL in most runs scored.Grant it a lot of that was because of the prense of Jose Reyes who is now in Miami.But they have a lot of positives coming up
1.Zach Wheeler and Matt Harvey possibly Familla
2.Flores(much better than some people think)
3.Ike returning
4.Tejada is a good ss much better defensivley than Reyes
5.walls coming in,yes everyone forgets that
6.a low possible Santana rebound.
The Mets do not suck they are in a heavily competitve NL East I will say they are better than some of the other teams out there.
when did they lead the nl in runs scored?
Dude, I’m a Mets fan but don’t have the faith that you do. Reyes was a much better ss, hitter & stealer. Remember Tejada was sent back to the minors in 2010 b/c he was making errors left and right and couldn’t hit. Thankfully he did well coming back this year. So don’t get me wrong, I like Tejada and have high hopes for him! But I think he still needs some work.
Ike may be returning, but they are talking about trading him and maybe even trading Murph – unbelievable.
I don’t think we’ll see Zach Wheeler yet.
Santana? Ugh.
And let’s not forget Jason Bay. A great guy with a couple bad years. Hopefully things turn around for him in 2012.
Even as mgmt & ownership destroys this team, I’m sure I’ll keep following and putting money in their pockets. What a dummy.
Yes, because there are 30 teams in baseball and every single one of those teams have games to play. Get off your high horse. Just because a club fields a mediocre team doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a fan base to play for. These “LOL METS DON’T MATTER CAUSE THEY SUCK” posts have been stale for the past 3 years.
I get it. The Mets currently suck. But I like to root for my teams, even if they aren’t winning.
Andres Torres.
No thank you.
Oh, I completely agree, but that would have to be the plan, no? Maybe they’ll non-tender Torres and sign Crisp?
Ramon Ramirez
Ramon Ramirez.
Ramon Ramirez.
Jason Bay possibly.
they could easily sign a coco crisp to fix that or they could actually try and swap for B.J
i like this deal for both sides
Finally someone who understands baseball. Great trade for both sides. I am a die hard Giants fan and Torres is one of my favorites, however he sucked last year and I’m tired of him swinging at high and outside pitches. Pagan is better than Torres….that’s the 2010 version. 2011 Torres I would rather have Brett Pill play center field. Ramirez is a stud but always getting the deeper bullpen in trouble.
Finally someone who understands baseball. Great trade for both sides. I am a die hard Giants fan and Torres is one of my favorites, however he sucked last year and I’m tired of him swinging at high and outside pitches. Pagan is better than Torres….that’s the 2010 version. 2011 Torres I would rather have Brett Pill play center field. Ramirez is a stud but always getting the deeper bullpen in trouble.
As a met fan LOVE PAGAN, but this is the right move . Gives a chance to Fernando Martinez i think (he’s done btw) but Torres is Decent to me and i always liked Ramirez , no complaints. Id rather see changes ! I think pagan is SUPER injury prone , but im a big fan of his work. I dnt see why SF did this theyre OUTFIELD DEPTH is krazy! Especially after getting melky, but i like this deal .
dude, F-Mart is injury prone too, all he does is get hurt, they now need a center fielder in the worst way and they better sign someone else since I don’t believe that Ramirez is the answer at close.
Fernando Martinez was sent to the glue factory about 3-4 months ago. Where were you?
I would say it actually opens the door for Kirk Neiuwenhuis (sp?) if he recovers from injury and not Fernando Martinez who, frankly, I no longer consider a prospect.
Another hitter who will not improve the giants offense whatsoever. Typical Sabean. Say bye to Lincecum. Unless the Giants offer him an 8 year deal he will be gone in 2 years. What pitcher wants to play for a team that continues to not score runs. Lincecum should have had 20 wins last year. Sabean you are pathetic.
Hi, I’m the 2010 World Series trophy.
Hi your right you are the 2010 world series trophy. Im a giants fan and Sabean got lucky that year. He didnt even want Cody Ross and Patt Burrell was released by the rays and was a lucky signing. Wake up its 2011 now.
He got lucky? I am laughing too hard to respond to that.
How do you luck into a World Series? A lot of things have to go right.
You luck into a series when you make the same caliber of moves you had been making to mixed results for years, then suddenly they all work out magnificently. I’m a big Giants fan, and they had a lot of pieces needed for a title run (pitching and lots of it), but there was a good amount of luck in how 2010 played out for them
You luck into a series when you make the same caliber of moves you had been making to mixed results for years, then suddenly they all work out magnificently. I’m a big Giants fan, and they had a lot of pieces needed for a title run (pitching and lots of it), but there was a good amount of luck in how 2010 played out for them
How was Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Bumgarner, Posey, Sanchez, lucky? They were the core of the team. Ross and Burrell turned out better than anyone expected but it’s a stretch to say, over a 162 game schedule and 3 playoff rounds, that they lucked into a WS. Please.
Staying incredibly injury-free almost all year, being forced to take Cody Ross (who easily could have been left off the post-season roster if MLB hadn’t come in and basically forced the Giants to leave Jose Guillen off), getting roughly half a seasons worth of the 30 homer Pat Burrell and not the one that showed up in 2011, letting your manager have your lefty specialist (Lopez) face way too many RHBs and not get burned by it… yeah, I think that all those had at least a little luck factor. Like I said, they had a lot of the necessary pieces to make a run, but it takes more than a handful of players to win a title, and 2010 was a perfect storm
Every single World Series championship ever has had some degree of luck involved. You are obviously an intelligent poster, which is why I know you can’t really think that the Giants made it to (thats 162 games) and won a World Series based on luck.
Well, then I guess in 2011 they were extremely unlucky.
not a lot of teams repeat after winning in facty a lot of teams tend to be bad.
2006 Cards
2005 White Sox
1986 Mets(for a little bit)
2003 Marlins
2004 Red Sox(for a little bit)
Staying incredibly injury-free almost all year, being forced to take Cody Ross (who easily could have been left off the post-season roster if MLB hadn’t come in and basically forced the Giants to leave Jose Guillen off), getting roughly half a seasons worth of the 30 homer Pat Burrell and not the one that showed up in 2011, letting your manager have your lefty specialist (Lopez) face way too many RHBs and not get burned by it… yeah, I think that all those had at least a little luck factor. Like I said, they had a lot of the necessary pieces to make a run, but it takes more than a handful of players to win a title, and 2010 was a perfect storm
How was Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Bumgarner, Posey, Sanchez, lucky? They were the core of the team. Ross and Burrell turned out better than anyone expected but it’s a stretch to say, over a 162 game schedule and 3 playoff rounds, that they lucked into a WS. Please.
Its the Giants fans way. Everything that Sabean does that works out is luck. He obviously could never make a good deal
A lot of fans do feel this way, the way I see it he took some chances and they all worked out in 2010. He’s not completely incapable of doing a good job, but he’s not a top GM like a lot of people wanted to say he was at this point last year. He’s still a guy who’s ok, not great, at his job
not so fast. our offense next year will definitely be better. will it be great? no, but in a pitcher’s park it should suffice. we only lost the west this year by 3 games without Posey for much of the year or Freddy for the last part. Giants also have Belt and Gary Brown to look forward to over the next few years.
I know what the giants are capable of but when you start trading away pitchers like Ramirez then the Offense needs to get better, not stagnant. Just another typical Sabean offseason. High hopes and belittled dreams
And the Dbacks have room to improve with Parker being in the rotation and potentially picking up Kuroda.
Why do people hate on Sabes so much? dude put a team together that brought a world series to SF! He also put together one of the best if not the best pitching staff in the league. Do you thinks he chooses to not sign Pujols or Fielder? C’mon bro chill out and be thankful we have such a fun team to root for!
Go Gigantes!
Its because he doesnt fully subscribe to sabermetrics (a fact that I like). People will never give him any credit for that sole reason.
His teams never look great on paper (which is what people come to these types of sites for) but they usually win which is all I care about personally.
yeah i tend to agree, pagan isnt what the lineup truly needs, he will help though. but then again the offseason isnt close to being over. I think we should wait and see till its offically over. Their budget is tied up cause of zito and rowand, it hurts thinking about that.
Congrats Sabean you got ripped off again, Pagan is nothing more than a upgrade of a bench player.Grant it in 2010 he did have a good season offensivley but in 2011 he was pathetic although he was injured.Btw defensivley hes terrible
The Mets got a nice reliever
+ a good bench player who is a good defensive outfielder
Agreed. The strategy matters less than being able to pull the ring out, and let’s face it – he did assemble the best homegrown pitching staff in baseball. It’s not like he was Omar Minaya-ing his way through the free agent list to make wins happen.
agreed but in this year hes fallen under a rock for two terrible trades, have to give him credit for assembling a team that knocked out the favorite Phillies out of the playoffs
He spent years getting credit for the Giants being good, when in reality he had the best player of his generation and did frustratingly little to build around him. He used to have such an anti-draft stance that he would do things like sign Michael Tucker before he could be offered arbitration (when he probably would have been non-tendered) specifically to lose his first round pick. And now that he has an exceptional core due to strong drafting, he’s given it no offensive support, instead making silly signings like Rowand, DeRosa, etc. And then he does things like sign Aubrey Huff, who was extremely likely to regress, blocking an excellent prospect like Brandon Belt.
if dont they get traded too lmafo
I agree with you 10000%, word for word. I had a little ray of hope that it would be David Wright, but then i realized that it was Brian Sabean. I think Torres had more upside than Pagan. It should have been Pagan for Torres straight-up.
look at the numbers again
I did before i posted the comment. i don’t need to look at the numbers to identify that torres is worth pagan. I know what he’s capable of and the numbers he can put up, along with the leadership he brings. You can’t look at numbers when you’re talking about heart. They dont teach you that on any team.
I did before i posted the comment. i don’t need to look at the numbers to identify that torres is worth pagan. I know what he’s capable of and the numbers he can put up, along with the leadership he brings. You can’t look at numbers when you’re talking about heart. They dont teach you that on any team.
look at the numbers again
Yeah Sabean likes trading and signing players who hit less than 12 homeruns a year. Pagan hit 7 homeruns last year. How is 7 homeruns suppose to help the giants.
you really thought torres was going to be any good again? i mean pagan had a few good years followed by a bad one last year did you see his 2010 season?
seems to me like we found our leadoff hitter
Might wanna rethink that,…Pagan hates hitting leadoff! lol
thats more home runs than Torres and Ramirez hit
david wright? So you wanna gut the farm system even more? Pagan is younger and stole 30+ bases these last two years. More than andres ever could. Andres is gonna be 34? How does he have more upside with one “flash in the pan” season in 2010?
So you’re saying that you would want pagan because he steals 10 more bases than torres? Is that 10 extra bases really worth Ramon Ramirez? I didnt say i was hoping they “gut the farm system” i was hoping that we could get wright for torres and ramirez, WHILST eating a majority of their salaries.
hes better than torres thats a fact, some good OBP’s in his career. Im not happy with ramirez gone, that hurts obviously. Seems like they could have got something better with ramirez in the package i agree.
Yeah ramirez and torres for david wright, while eating salary. Give the mets about 8 beers, than propose that again. Why would they not want future talent for david wright thus “gutting the farm system”? Wheeler for beltran? but just salary relief and torres and ramirez for wright? One of the mets franchise players whos in his prime. No sweat.
Hembree!
That would never happen – Wright for Torres and Ramirez. Wright’s trade value is at an all-time low because he played a big part of last year with a broken back. He’d require something like Andres Torres, Sergio Romo, and Gary Brown to come over, and no less. Not saying the Giants would make that trade but that’s more around what the Mets would ask for Wright. Mets fans also know Wright’s past his prime but he’s still one of the better offensive 3Bs in baseball when healthy.
Edited to add: Why would you want Wright when you have Pablo Sandoval playing 3B?
The Giants have a third baseman and wright isn’t mobile enough to play SS.
Pagan is 30 years old with a career 279/331/418 Torres is 32 years old with a career 244/318/403Plus moving Ramirez is quickly replaced with Hembree.where is the upside?
Get over it, you actually thought the Giants were gonna get a power bat like Pujols or Fielder? Pagan has the speed we lacked.
Except that its only December. . . When did Giants fans start hitting the panic button for no reason?
We panic, its kind of our thing.
we have Panik.. which is going to be our thing
some of us think if you can be a good GM on MLB 2k11 or MLB the show then why cant you do it in real life.
Sure sound like it.
some of us think if you can be a good GM on MLB 2k11 or MLB the show then why cant you do it in real life.
You think this is the panic button, you should read the Giants blog forums. They will rant about Sabean’s bad contracts day after day after day……
From a completely neutral observer, I really think Sabean is doing a pretty good job.
I hope this still means the Tigers can get Daniel Murphy by trading Dirks or possible Raburn
Daniel Murphy is a proven .300 hitter that would do wonders in the American League as DH. However, Murphy is a solid corner infielder who could see an increase in value if he can find time at second.
Andy Dirks and Ryan Raburn are not going to land the Tigers Daniel Murphy.
If anything, with the loss of Reyes, Daniel Murphy is the starting second baseman for the Mets to make up the loss of Reyes’ offense.
Andy Oliver and Andy Dirks I think that could get a deal done
Andy Oliver and Andy Dirks I think that could get a deal done
Well….uhhh….ok
Great Trade for mets.
Yawn…what a boring trade that further solidifies the Mets as the 4th/5th place team in the NL East.
Uhhh, duh? It’s a pretty open secret they’re in rebuilding mode. Good job stating the obvious by calling them a 4th/5th place team.
Obviously they weren’t a 4th or 5th place team until this trade happened. Next offseason everyone will be talking about the trade that killed the Mets season.
WTF is this? Pagan could have been turned into something useful had he rebounded, and now we have two worthless pieces instead. Wonderful.
How exactly are they worthless? Torres was one of the best players in all of baseball in 2010 and Ramirez is a very capable relief pitcher. Even if you concede that Pagan is more likely to turn it around than Torres, Ramirez pushes the deal into the Mets’ favor.
Relying on bullpen guys to be consistent is like trying to throw a strike with a tornado between home plate and the mound.
Angel Pagan had a terrific 2010 and was injured for most of 2011. He is worth more than both Ramon Ramirez and Andres Torres. Starting caliber position players over bullpen pitchers every day of the week.
If there is a tornado between me and home plate, I don’t care about throwing a strike, I’m getting the heck outta there!!
The Mets did a terrible job of shutting down games in 2011. A solid bullpen is an underrated way of winning. The 2010 Padres, 2010 Giants, and 2011 Braves are good examples. By bringing in Ramon Ramirez, Frank Francisco, and Jon Rauch, the Mets won’t be great but they’ll be decidedly better than the Ryota Igarashi/Pedro Beato/etc. Mets of 2010.
It’s pretty much a wash between Pagán and Torres though I think Pagán is the slightly better player. Once you include Ramon Ramirez in the trade, though, it’s pretty clear the Mets got the better end of this deal. That said, I’m sure the Giants have some minor league pitcher that will be able to step in and take Ramirez’ role.
I’d take the Mets side any day, but honestly, for me its pretty close. If Pagan regains form he is dangerous, and I think the chances are way better for Pagan than Torres.
I’d take the Mets side any day, but honestly, for me its pretty close. If Pagan regains form he is dangerous, and I think the chances are way better for Pagan than Torres.
torres is gonna be 34 and had a career year in 2010
Wow, a win-win for both sides.
or a who-cares for both sides.
“The San Francisco Giants advanced to the National League Championship Series after a 3-2 victory over the Atlanta Braves at Turner Field Monday evening.” 2010
This is an event that happened… Yes.
Here’s another event that happened:
9/29/2011:
Braves Complete Colossal Collapse, Lose To Phillies In Extra Innings
Really? A Braves fan and you’re going to come in here and troll??? Just stop.
This is an event that happened… Yes.
or a who cares because your teams not involved?
As a Braves fan, it’s a win-win for both sides. I’m glad NYM finally made a trade that could benefit them in multiple ways and they could have even found a closer in Ramon Ramirez.
Pagan has looked great and it’ll be nice to see him given a fresh start to see what he can really do. Glad to see the man that represents good and evil in one name is taking his talents to the Bay.
If both sides win twice…then SOMEone has to account for the 4 loses…
Oakland, c’mere!
If both sides win twice…then SOMEone has to account for the 4 loses…
Oakland, c’mere!
Hogwash
was this the trade that would “change their core”?
huh?
Nice Trade for the Mets… Hell, its a start…
Start to what?
Why trade one of your better arms in the pen and torres for pagan? weres he going to start!?!?! stupid move and could of done better. smh -_-
Im glad they traded ramirez, him blowing leads was so frustrating.
Ramirez is expendable as a right handed thrower. The Giants have arms to replace him in the bullpen with. Now if it was Lopez or Romo I would be steamed.
Or Affeldt… That would be tragic.
2 words Heath Hembree
2 words Heath Hembree
Haha, yet another confusing and/or horrible trade in SF. I have absolutely no idea why you would swap outfielders that are both mediocre AND throw in a pitcher to make the deal happen.
Ramirez is a very nice pick up for the Mets. If they can get KRod they’re BP will atleast be in good shape. That line-up, on the other hand, not so much.
Hopefully Johan and Wright have big first halves and they can trade them for a bunch of young AA+ prospects and turn their franchise around.
Wright maybe, Johan less likely. Remember that he has a huge contract and hasn’t pitched successfully in over a year. It may take more than a successful half to sway a GM. And we’ll have to eat a shit-ton of salary, anyway.
Mets win this one ramirez is solid in the pen
In reality, it’s Ramirez for Pagan..which is fine
Torres should be considered minor league fodder
The trade was for Ramirez. Torres is not the long term CF (neither would Pagan have been). Good trade by Alderson.
Goodbye Cody Ross.
Yeah, Ross aint coming back…
Although Pagan had a miserable obp last year, he would be a better leadoff hitter than Melky. With that being said, maybe the Giants trade flip Melky for some cheap prospects and clear enough salary to resign Beltran. I’m sure Beltran would like to play in the of with Pagan again… let’s hope this is what happens because otherwise our offense is really going to struggle.
I felt the same way, but I’ve been keeping an eye on Brandon Belt’s winter ball progress. He’s playing in the DR to get more time in LF. His stats are really good.
Decent little trade for the Mets, though it is funny that someone with a screen name like mine would be commenting on a Pagan trade.
Pagan hits leadoff and plays CF and Melky plays a corner spot. I think the SF wins this move big time.
belt’s playing time just went down the drain
Belt plays 1st
Not with Bochy’s buddy Huff and his .225 BA at 1B everyday.
Bochy already came out and said Huff will play mostly LF next year, which I’m sure will leave Belt at 1B. Schierholtz is the one who gets shafted from the outfield if Pagan plays CF.
Huff in left is FAR worse than Huff at 1B….
Oh, believe me, I completely agree.. but I’m just repeating what I’ve heard. I’d rather see Huff ride the pine, let Belt play LF and give Pill a shot at 1B.
Huff in left is FAR worse than Huff at 1B….
They sent him to play winter ball in DR so they could move him to LF. Depth Charts now Belt @ LF
What Bochy said is that Huff “could” get a lot of playing time in LF next year.
Bochy already came out and said Huff will play mostly LF next year, which I’m sure will leave Belt at 1B. Schierholtz is the one who gets shafted from the outfield if Pagan plays CF.
he was going to play lf
he was going to play lf
Try again (for this year anyway). Bochy won’t even consider Belt at 1st with Huff there, especially since Posey is going to have to play some there to let up on his legs from catching.
Bochy has already come out and said Huff will be playing mostly LF next year.
I must have missed that, but unless Huff drastically improves, him in LF is a huge mistake. The brief period he was there last year was a complete disaster, so I hope that’s more of a “we’ll give him a chance, but he only stays there if he earns it”.
That was before the trade for Pagan. Melkly now moves to LF and Huff mostly at 1B. The bad part is Belt get benched…
exactly what i was getting to unless belt lights it up in st and beats out nate which i wouldnt want that
Try again (for this year anyway). Bochy won’t even consider Belt at 1st with Huff there, especially since Posey is going to have to play some there to let up on his legs from catching.
Solid move for the Mets. Pagan and Torres have similar skill sets, and Ramirez is pretty nasty.
Nasty in what sense???
I also thought the only reason the Giants wanted to trade Ramirez was for salary relief. But Pagan is going to make as much as Ramirez and Torres combined.
Torres was going to be non-tendered most likely anyway; they weren’t going to pay him the estimated $2.2M. So it’s Ramirez for Pagan which should help both sides.
Kind of like the AZ/TOR deal last year. Nice move.
I WILL FIGHT BRIAN SABEAN
More light hitting outfielders!
More light hitting outfielders!
Can someone give me a report on Pagan outside the numbers?
Just to share my perspective: Torres pretty much came out of nowhere to have a career year in 2010 and very disappointing year in 2011. Was a sparkplug at the top of the lineup and showed some good pop, but didn’t walk as much as you’d like for a lead-off guy (although not a complete free swinger) and was criticized by some for swinging for the fences too much (he does use a very heavy bat). Good locker room guy, excellent defense in CF, average arm. Very good speed but not a huge SB guy. Switch hitter but was seen as much weaker from the right side.
From what I’ve read Pagan seems similar to Torres except has a bit more speed whereas Torres had a bit more pop.
Ramirez was very good last year. He was initially acquired b/c he was good at getting righties out but turned into a very good reliever, maybe one of the best 7th inning guys out there.
Great pickup by the Mets
Great pickup by the Mets
Ramirez is old enough now that he is due to break down. Relievers like him are a dime a dozen after 4-5 years in the bigs so I’m fine with getting something for him before he loses that last couple MPH on his fastball and becomes hittable.
The Sox had him when he threw mid 90’s, now he’s down to 90-91. When you drop below that as the kind of pitcher he is, good luck.
This moves will save the giants around 2.5-3 Million and helps move Cabrera out of CF, so that is a plus for the Giants. Ramirez could hurt a bit as he was pretty productive for the giants. With another trade on the horizon, hopefully the Giants can get enough money to get a power bat. For the Mets, adding Ramirez is a plus, but Torres isn’t much other than a 4th outfielder with really good D, oh and you added salary.
Angel Pagan had 10 errors last season. Yikes. Also listening to KNBR they had reports that Angel Pagan and the Mets couldn’t wait to get away from each other. Something about his attitude. Eric Byrnes host of KNBR apparently got a text from a Major Leaguer who said the same thing about Pagan.
Hopefully Pagan just needs a change of scenery.
The more “Yikes!” part of that is that you still use errors as a stat of value
The more “Yikes!” part of that is that you still use errors as a stat of value
here in new york, pagan was considered a cancer in the clubhouse. i thought the giants got rid of one of those at short.
this trade is typical sabean. now no wheeler…no beltran and a five million dollar pagan contract as an excuse.
yeah i agree 100%. good analysis. I think they plan on getting some type of power bat eventually in december or janurary
Now trade Keppinger.
I love this move for the Giants. Our money is locked up in our rotation, and despite what people think, we don’t NEED power… We need defense and some people to get on and hit in at the top of the line up… Pagan, Sanchez, Sandoval, Posey, Huff, Cabrera, Schierholtz (and whomever is playing SS)… How do you NOT like this line up for what the Giants have given up?
I love this move for the Giants. Our money is locked up in our rotation, and despite what people think, we don’t NEED power… We need defense and some people to get on and hit in at the top of the line up… Pagan, Sanchez, Sandoval, Posey, Huff, Cabrera, Schierholtz (and whomever is playing SS)… How do you NOT like this line up for what the Giants have given up?
(in reply to FourFeathers above ^^^) Yeah, a 300 lb dwarf at 3rd. I bet no other team would want him. All credibility lost on that one.
(in reply to FourFeathers above ^^^) Yeah, a 300 lb dwarf at 3rd. I bet no other team would want him. All credibility lost on that one.
LOL yeah i know, its a troll post
“the Mets also signed veteran relievers Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco (together again!)”
This line made me think of “Ebony & Ivory”
“the Mets also signed veteran relievers Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco (together again!)”
This line made me think of “Ebony & Ivory”
Gotta say, if this is what the Giants’ offseason is shaping up to be, it’s been pretty disappointing–unless, of course, they really ARE clearing up cap space to make a move on somebody noteworthy. With as much revenue as they grossed in 2010 with memorabilia and ticket sales (and the fact that the stadium’s paid off), it’s hard to believe that they’re on as tight a budget as Sabean claims. It’s too bad to see the G-Men move one of the key bridges in that bullpen, especially if it is just to save a few bucks.
Pagan is 30 years old with a career 279/331/418
Torres is 32 years old with a career 244/318/403
Plus moving Ramirez is quickly replaced with Hembree.
Giants win!
Hector Sanchez is killing it in winter ball. I bet he becomes Posey’s backup or better yet, a platoon
ok fellow giants fan lets show some respect our Giants were really bad for a number of years and we stuck by our team dont disrepect mets fans bc they stick by there team win or lose. I dont really see how either team improved with this trade, but met fans will love to watch Torres in center field. He is a great defensive player. and he was a great lead off man in 2010.
If the Giants need lead-off help, they should call the Mariners.
Pretty sure that Chone Figgins can easily be had.
Nice, good pickup for the Giants!
I’m all up for trading a disgruntled player for a good middle-relief pitcher and an outfield who can easily replace a disgruntled player. Pagan definitely did his thing for NYM, so i wish him in the best in SF. As for Torres, I honestly see him as a contributor to this team; leadoff batter at CF.
I like all the moves Sandy has made so far. Not expecting a playoff run but the season will be interesting to watch.
I always thought of Pegan and Torres as the same player
I don’t see anything wrong with this trade – we get a decent leadoff hitter who has motivation to perform (FA after this year, I believe). Huff can play if he has motivation too, or drop him like a bad habit and play a kid at first. We were going to toss away Torres, and had plenty of arms to drop in the bullpen. It’s a win-win for both teams.
Its a good move all the way around. Torres wasnt getting the job done from the lead off spot. Great defensive player but thats the last thing we need in a weak offense already. Pagan will be some ne fire plus what people forget is that pagan and beltran are really good friends. So it may look 2 times better now to beltran having pagan there.
If they re-sign Beltran this is the OF. LF-Cabrera CF-Pagan RF-Beltran. And Schierholtz will get spot starts and Belt will play 1B cause Huff isnt projecting anything better than what he did last year.
That’s sarcasm, right? Daniel Murphy, is, bear in mind, the Mets’ projected starting 2nd baseman for 2012 now that Reyes is in Florida. If you switch out Andy Oliver for Drew Smyly, it sounds more likely. That said, the Mets have more outfield depth, especially lefty, than they have solid 2B options.
great job by sabes. buy low/sell high. we got ramirez for nothing from the sox. put him in a bullpen thats dominant. he looked good. but c’mon he’s not going to repeat it and he’s not going to come close in a met uni. plus torres wouldnt have made the team this year.
watching in NY angel pagan is a good guy who sometimes doesnt have his head in the game..when he does he’s very good like in ’10..collins didnt like him for some reason..now melky is a better fielder with a great arm and hits in the clutch..both angel and melky will hit about 285/15hrs/75rbi..they are both fast and will steal bases but pagan is not a typical leadoff hitter..he likes swinging the bat..i hope angel and the melkman deliver for the giants
Is this Brian Sabean?
The Giants will also recieve a PTBNL or cash.
no better bats thanks to an inept general manager means more games where if you give up a run you have a 50 50 chance of losing.
Ugh…more mediocre players….just what we need.
wow ====== yard sale
those comments are so stupid. Just stop.
Hey he changed things up. He wrote in ALL CAPS. And he used TWO periods. It’s TWO sentences. That is originality in its purest form right there.
SUPER. BOWL.
SUPER. BOWL.
I’m pretty sure that if Alderson could dump Jason Bay or Johan Santana for a bag of peanuts he would.
Exactly, these people can’t seem to understand that. Trade Wright or someone worth half a damn and rebuild.
Wow. In 2011, the Mets got rid of Oliver Perez, Luis Castillo, Francisco Rodriguez, Carlos Beltrán, and now Angel Pagán. Johan Santana is earning >$20 million but hasn’t pitched since 2010 and Jason Bay is earning a shit-ton and playing like crap too. And Pelfrey is not part of the long-term plans, either. It’s not like teams are actually looking to acquire these guys. Reyes is gone and Wright will either be traded or extended in the 2012 off-season right after the Mets pick up his option.
So actually the Mets are rebuilding and have been since Alderson took over. It’d be easier for him though if his ownership group were to stop lying about how much money he will have to spend. He took over expecting a $140 million payroll which was cut to the point where he’ll likely enter 2012 with a ~$95 million team.
I’d say he’d just replace Schierholtz, putting Pagan in CF and pushing Melky to RF
I’d say he’d just replace Schierholtz, putting Pagan in CF and pushing Melky to RF
This is a not a win/lose trade…..all of them are basically scrubs.
Melky would probably end up at one of the corners, probably right.
Because Melky Cabrera is a terrible defensive CF and the Giants play 81 games at AT&T Park.
Also, Torres had a better 2010 than Pagan did. Higher WAR, slightly higher OBP, higher wOBA, higher wRC+, and he hit for power. The argument lies in deciding which of the two is more likely to recreate their 2010. The biggest knock on Torres is that he broke out so late in his career.
Because Melky Cabrera is a terrible defensive CF and the Giants play 81 games at AT&T Park.
Also, Torres had a better 2010 than Pagan did. Higher WAR, slightly higher OBP, higher wOBA, higher wRC+, and he hit for power. The argument lies in deciding which of the two is more likely to recreate their 2010. The biggest knock on Torres is that he broke out so late in his career.
Mets want Torres because they’re rebuilding and he’s cheaper. And when you factor in defense, Torres is just as good. Plus they get a reliever.
Giants want Pagan because Melky’s reputation in CF is not great. Moving him to a corner would be a defensive upgrade. Unless they’re thinking of Pagan as a 4th outfielder with a Belt/Cabrera/Schierholtz alignment.
Pagan is younger, gets on base more, and steals more bases when he gets there. By doing this, the giants have solidified their 1 and 2 hitters. This opens the door to signing Beltran as a 3 or just standing pat with Posey and Sandoval.
Pagan can cover more ground and is younger. Melky should be a LF/corner OF, especially now that Angel Pagan is in the fold.
Because they get a nice bullpen piece as well. Pagan and Torres both have pretty similar expected outputs/upside IMO. Getting Ramirez makes it a decent deal for NY.
This has to take them out of the running for Beltran.
This has to take them out of the running for Beltran.
the real losers here are Pill and Belt. Melky goes to LF. Huff comes into first.
the real losers here are Pill and Belt. Melky goes to LF. Huff comes into first.
Melky will go to LF. Nate will stay in RF. Melky can barely play cf defense. No way he could play RF in ATT park.
Haters gonna hate
Haters gonna hate
Why are you trashing Pablo? Defensive metrics ranked him above pretty much every 3B in the NL except for maybe Polanco in 2011. Plus the dude had a .900+ OPS and hit 23 HR while missing a quarter of the season. Pablo is in the upper tier of 3rd basemen in the NL, and is still young. If he can sustain his defensive performance of 2011 (and I see no reason why he shouldn’t) you can put him in an elite tier of 3B.
His talent is wasted behind the plate? Tell that to Johnny Bench and Mike Piazza. And Sandoval might be the best 3rd baseman in the NL. If the Giants get Posey and Belt in the line up with that pitching, they are making the playoffs, one way or another.
They are in rebuild mode…They are bringing in the walls this season therefore the potential for Wright to rebound is huge. Wright is still under team control for the next two seasons so come next offseason they will hopefully be trading him. Bay has no value and neither does Santana. Who else do you want them to trade? Thats pretty much all the big pieces they have.
Wright isn’t an overpaid vet, he’s earned surplus value over the life of his career so there’s no rush. Rebuilding isn’t a button you push that makes everything better.
Thank Jeebus you’re not the GM. The basic premise in trades, stocks, etc is to buy low, sell high. Wright is at a low right now since he played a big chunk of last year with a broken back. I’m sure that broken back hampered his offense, defense, and running. The Mets don’t expect him to be vintage-Wright ever again but it’s more likely than not that he has a better 2012 than 2011. Additionally, if he gets traded, his team option for 2013 becomes a player option. This means that right now, the Mets have two years of team control but a team acquiring him in a trade would only have 1 year.
It makes sense for the Mets to have him play in 2012 and then pick up his 2013 option. Then they could either extend him, trade him, or stand pat. But that’s the only sound decision at the moment.
Hell yeah, dodgers already do SUCK
Agreed, Nate is the only player on the roster I would feel safe playing in right at home. He’s at worst an average offensive player, not terribly fast in the outfield but a terrific arm and knows how to play the wall.
I don’t think so Brock, if anything Sabean was just shutting up the fans by saying “maaaaybe we’ll get Beltran back, if we can fit him into the budget.” He just traded for two outfielders with Belt, Schierholtz and now possibly Christian and Huff back in the mix.
and what was Pagans averge, and his defense
You have obviously never seen Torres play centerfield
The fact that you think you’re being humerous is pathetic and weird. Just leave. These comments are meant to be for intelligent baseball conversations discussed with and by intelligent people. You fit neither.
WORLD. BOWL.
SUPER. SERIES.
FU TROLL U TRADED FOR A STUPID DUM PLAYER!!!
BIG. AFRO.
See: Astros.
Pagan has an 8 year cumulative .983 fielding percentage.
Torres has a 7 year .993, a slight difference in Torres’ favor but not a deal breaker by any means.
In the last 3 years Pagan has hit (2009) .306, (2010) .290, (2011) .262
Torres has hit: .270, .268, .221, clearly the advantage here is to Pagan, reliability at the plate was a huge problem for the Giants.
Using the same 3 year period, on average Pagan has played in 12 more games a year, which may not seem like much but its enough to call Pagan more of an “everyday player.”
Really tough, its the fact that he can switch hit effectively, and steal. It’s going to be a valuable asset to one of the slower, if not the slowest team in the Majors.
I truly don’t believe Huff will be in the outfield, after last year, I think it’s safe to say his days in the outfield are over. Maybe in an emergency or something but not when we have more competent players.
I try not to look into any of Sabean’s hints or red herrings. Beltran is still on the table. Why? He shared the outfield with Pagan for 4 years, you think it’s just coincidence that the Giants pick up the guy that Beltran used to bat in front of? Beltran wasn’t complaining that the Giants have no hitters, he was complaining about the lack of offense, which for some reason, some people instantly think to mean Power Hitter.
The fact is, the Giants hit into with 97 double plays last year, which was not the most in the NL, but considering our at bats, it gives us an average of about 23% of our outs coming from hitting into double plays, which was second only to the Cardinals. Since Pagan has stolen almost 40 bases in each of the past two years, something Andres Torres led the Giants with last year at 19… it seems obvious that he upgrades the offense.
I hope Huff doesn’t end up in the outfield, and wouldn’t you know… no Beltran and the payroll is already “maxed out”.
all thanks to Reyes, so that won’t happen next year.