A few notes from Buster Olney's latest Insider-only blog entry at ESPN.com:
- Olney discusses the Ryan Braun bombshell, noting players across the league "are much more vigilant about PED use than they used to be." While players often treated PED users with indifference in the past, many now view users as a threat to their livelihood. The Brewers released a statement on Braun late last night.
- At least four teams have talked to the Marlins about a Hanley Ramirez trade, but none of the discussions seem to have progressed at all.
- Within the industry, the Rangers are viewed as the frontrunner for Yu Darvish, given the extensive scouting they've done.
- The fact that Albert Pujols agreed to sign with the Angels without a single face-to-face visit with the Angels' brass or to Anaheim is a strong indicator that Pujols was unhappy with the Cardinals' negotiations, says Olney.
- Having dealt Trevor Cahill and Craig Breslow, the Athletics will continue making moves and will "probably" trade Andrew Bailey and Gio Gonzalez in the coming weeks.
Jays NEEEEEEED Darvish IMO
EDIT
They neeeeeed a TOP SP
The Jays don’t need Darvish specifically, they need a top starter. I’d rather they target Gio Gonzalez than go all in for Darvish.
That being said, Darvish is phenomenal to watch. I’m just curious how his transition to the MLB will go.
Gio Gonzalez isn’t a top starter. He’s a #4 playing half his games at Roger’s Centre.
#4 at best
Ya you guys are both way off but ok….# 4 at best? FIP’s of 3.78 and 3.64 the last two seasons. Yes he walks a bit too many, but he balances this out with the k’s, groundballs and lack of hits.
in the AL West..
Edwin Jackson has been worth more than him the last 2 seasons.
is E Jacks a top of the line starter now as well?
Ok guy…don’t try to switch the focus on the division he plays i
Ok guy…don’t try to switch the focus to what division he plays in. He’s a major league pitcher, facing major league teams. The AL West may not contain the offensive prowess of the AL East, but the Rangers and Angels aren’t exactly slouch teams. As far as his numbers against the AL East, he’s been pitching for 3 seasons. Something tells me things will average out and stabalize as far as those “cherry picked numbers” go. I hate arguments pointing out a players numbers against a certain team and/or division.
The fact of the matter is you called him a #4, which is untrue. You also compared him to Rzep, which is way off-base. You can’t take a guysnumbers over his last partial season, ignore his past reults in the bigs, and try to claim they stand against a guy that’s coming off 2 consecutive very strong seasons. Thats not how it works my friend.
didn’t even read
I agree he;s not a number 4, I would say a #3 or borderline 4. He loves that cavern in Oakland and his home/away splits show that.
haha r u serious hed be #1 or 2 on the jays staff MAYBE behind romero
hahaha okkkkayyy there champ.
In terms of stuff and potential. Romero, Morrow, Alvarez, Mcgowan have him all beat
Gonzalez is a clear upgrade over Brett Cecil.. but why would the jays trade high end prospects to improve their 4/5th pitcher.
sorry pass, I’ll take Garza any day of the week and twice on sunday
dude im pretty sure u havent seen gio pitch
I have when he faces the east
5.79 ERA vs Sox
7.27 ERA vs Yanks
4.86 ERA vs TB
3.26 ERA vs Baltimore
3.31 ERA vs Toronto
oh ya, lets definitely send prospects for him.
Send him to the NL he’ll do fine there
look up ur guyss pitchers against the al east as well
That’s regardless of the point.. We don’t have to give up prospects to see Ricky Romero pitch poorly against the Red Sox.
alright all im sayin is gio is not a number 4 starting pitcher and no way is he in your rotation
Lol he’s clearly biased , i dont think you’ll change his mind about his love for Gio.
Which is why, *ahem* we’re saying the Jays need pitching? They just don’t need any of Oaklands overrated and average pitchers.
dude look at his stats from last year that says it all who cares this yu darvish character hasnt proven s*** he aint overrted
UMAD?
i’d take anderson if he was healthy . lol
I love the pick and choose stat people that try to prove a point by nit picking stats. So how many games did Gio pitch against the redsox and yanks last year in their stadium? That’s right 1 game so you are saying if a pitcher pitches 1 game against a team it will be the same out come everytime. See how facts can burn you…
Buh buh but….if you cant use small sample scales I can’t make my totally invalid point!
sigh
5 starts vs Red Sox, 28 IP
5 starts vs yanks, 26 IP
4 starts vs TB, 16.2 IP
anything else?
i actually didn’t specify it had to be in red sox or yankees park, it was any start verses them, so yah. really burnt
Those stats are small samples, not all that valid. Gio is a good young pitcher but not a #2 in the AL East, but neither was Lackey.
Gio is arguably as good as Romero and that’s the bottom line. There are definitely not 4 better pitchers than him in Toronto. He’s an ace, as is Romero.
Romero is in no way an ace.
and Romero was drafted, we didn’t give up prospects for him.
So why would the jays give up an ace haul for someone who ISNT an ace.
I have. He’s brutal against the AL East. The only opponent he doesn’t have an OBP above .350 is, go figure, the Blue Jays.
You could not be more wrong.
I guess Kuroda, Jackson and Danks are all
“Front of the rotation starters” as well?
No one is saying he’s a bad pitcher, he just doesn’t improve the top 3 of the jays by any means, so its pointless giving up prospects for him
I love how everyone who claims Gio is a top of the rotation starter “conveniently” overlooks this post which shows
Kuroda, Jackson, Danks, Floyd, have all been similar or better than him the last 2 years..
find me someone who is calling kuroda or jackson front line starters.
Kuroda and Jackson are absolutely frontline starters
…for any minor league team…absolutely.
xFIP of 3.51 @ home, 3.99 on the road last season. Help from the home ballpark sure, but hardly as drastic as your trying to make it seem. He’s a damn fine pitcher regardless of where he’s at.
I have never seen anyone say Gio Gonzalez is not a front line starter until this thread.
Jays homers might be the worst thing about MLBTR threads….but its fun watching them post things that make not sense whatsoever like 1 game sample scales.
calling people homers while being a homer, classic
calling people homers while being a homer, classic
creative
Don’t care about being creative, just pointing out the irony of your post.
other than the fact that I’m able to put my team allegiance aside while stating my opinion.. but great addition to the conversation.
Yep, Thats what I meant, So I’ll repharse myself.
Jays NEEEED a #1-2 SP
Seems ridiculous to say any team is a front runner on Darvish since the posting process is done through sealed bids. Whoever posts the most money is the front runner.
I agree, I don’t think the Sox, Yanks, or Jays are going to just let the Rangers post him. Right now the Angels and Rangers are the best teams in the AL.
Gio has a 3.12 ERA. And his ERA has gone down every year. The kid has no-hit stuff.
“BUT HE GOT LIT UP ONE TIME AS A ROOKIE BY THE YANKEES AT YANKEE STADIUM! EVERY SINGLE JAYS PITCHER IS BETTER THAN HIM!” – every delusional Jays homer in this thread.
no one is saying that.. I never realized how insecure A’s fans have become..
No one is saying that Gio isn’t a fine pitcher, he just doesn’t provide enough of an upgrade to justify giving up prospects for him..
Stop being so defensive. Its a sound argument that no one has been able to rebuttle with out personally attacking a fan base.
you want to be intelligent and smart, talk in concretes and show us why giving up top prospects for gonzalez would be a good decision…
Hello, just look at the aritcles on this site, there have been many organizations trying to trade for Gio in the last three weeks. That is what the A’s are asking for and why teams like the Yanks and Sox declined. The way the Jays trade they won’t have a chance at Gio.
the thing about oakland pitchers is that they get ragged out rather quickly……look at anderson, i really believe something was wrong with cahill and look at mulder zito hudson….hudson got out in time and zito just imploded and mulder was never the same….oh and what about my man harden…i call him “dice game” because dude could get hurt in a dice gime….im just saying i would be leery about obtaining any pitching from oakland….why would oakland trade a decent pitcher with a very friendly team contract??? to get some kind of prospect haul? and we all know how unreasonable when beane was trying to trade harden to the sox…his medical report had a skull and crossbones on it and they were still trying to screw the sox…just an opinion
Front runners is a non existant thing to start with! In a sealed bid it’s got to be the dumbest thing I’ve heard!
The Sox are the front runners because Valentine has insiders who are going to tell the Sox the highest bid.
iIs getting interesting now folks! I knew Braun wasn’t this stupid.
Source: Braun tested positive for a prohibited substance, not a performance-enhancing drug. Rosenthal Tweets.
Looks like he may be cleared in some sense, but it still nice that testing can catch people. So besides for manny roids are being kept in check
I don’t fear the Rangers offense ever. They always hit and their numbers are inflated by their ballpark. Look at the difference in home and road stats for them.
Even if they signed Fielder, I would not consider them a steamroller to a championship this year, maybe down the road if things changed.
I do respect the better defense they have and especially the infield. And that makes mediocre pitchers good enough for their vaunted offense to really be a force. And they have back to back WS appearances to show for it instead of a vaunted offense and last place like a decade ago.
But if they get Darvish, I may be afraid, very afraid. They may indeed build a dynasty around a true #1 starter. And any or all upgrade additions after that will add to that snowball that could roll over the competition.
If the Marlins can sign Fielder, it opens up the absolute perfect way for them to trade Hanley, but still keep the fan base excited. My idea-Trade Hanley (16MM), Gaby Sanchez (min salary), and LoMo (min salary) for James Shields (7MM) and BJ Upton (arbitration estimate 8-9MM).
Rays land 2 PROVEN 20HR hitters with great walk rates that they can use at 1b, DH/LF with very low salaries for at least the next 1-2 seasons and Hanley at near exactly what Shields and Upton combined will cost in 2012, but way less than what they both will cost in 2013 and 2014.. They can easily shift Desmond Jennings to CF and can find plenty of affordable options for LF. Their offense becomes one of the best in the league in 2012 and the pitching remains by far the best in the AL East. The defense will be weakened at SS, but the overall offensive boost by far exceeds that negative. If/When LoMo and Sanchez hit better or even replicate last season (which is expectable given their talent), they should also both have significant trade value if/when they become too expensive for the Rays in 2-3 seasons. The two of them combined could land a similar package to what Upton would land if he were traded now or midseason. And if Hanley rebounds (again likely), he could also very easily be dealt for a great prospect package similar to what Shields would have landed if they decide that they really can’t afford him 2013 and/or 2014 and can no longer try to contend.
The Marlins land a top pitcher with a great contract for the next 3 seasons and a top-notch CF and offensive replacement for Hanley in Upton for at least one season, but probably would have room to extend him if they wanted to. They can then decide between Bonifacio, Dominguez, Dobbs, and Coughlin for the 3b and LF spots. Their defense and pitching are undoubtedly improved, and the offense is still probably the best in the NL.
The players would also like this move. Hanley gets to again be the highest paid player on the team and play SS, which wwould no doubt help with his ego problems. And if any manager is capable of handling Hanley, it’s Joe Maddon. Gaby Sanchez, originally from Miami, gets to stay in Florida and on the same team with close friend LoMo. Shields, already dominant in the AL East, would likely be even more dominating in the NL, facing easier lineups and have a much better chance at a Cy Young when he doesn’t have to face the Yankees and Red Sox regularly.
That’s a large over payment for James Shields & BJ Upton.
The Rays are giving up two players that are top-5 producers at two of the hardest positions in the league to fill for one player that is among the best at his position, but has injury concerns, character issues, and has regressed the past 2 seasons. The money is even for year one. But after year one, the Marlins can definitely afford Shields for the next 3 seasons and are guaranteed to have him and most likely be able to afford Upton too if they want to extend him. If they were willing to offer Pujols 27MM and Wilson 18MM a season, one would think that they can afford Fielder at around 22MM a season (estimate), Shields at (7MM, 9MM, 12MM), and Upton (9MM) this season. Even if the extension after 2012 guaranteed Upton around 12MM per season, that would only make the three contracts equal to what the Marlins offered both Pujols and Wilson. The Marlins also offered these contracts to Pujols and Wilson with the intention of keeping Hanley Ramirez as well, so they may have even more money to spend. The Rays, with all their giant arbitration cases and diminishing payroll, are much less likely to even be able to afford Hanley after year one. To make up for all of their risk, the Rays receive two players that are slightly above average at two of the easiest positions to fill in the league. They know they can afford them for the next 2-3 years but beyond that, there’s no way to tell. One of the players, (Sanchez), is useless to the Marlins if they sign Prince Fielder. The The other (LoMo), already a defensive liability in LF, has even less value to the Marlins if they sign Prince Fielder, a better LH power bat. The Marlins have an abundance of cheap alternatives for LF that can replace his offense with much better defense.
I would sign Fielder if I’m the Marlins and keep Hanley until Ozzie fed up with him.
I wonder what the Marlins will want for Hanley?
Any other time that would have been one of the easiest answers in baseball.
Prospects!!!!!
But now they may at least want MLB ready prospects. If they want a proven player back to try to win this year that will be interesting.
Hanley could bounce back, he is still young, and was a superstar who could contribute across the board offensively.
But if I was a GM I would pass. He may never return to his old stats. And his total value comes from the fact he plays SS. Move him and he is not as valuable.
I would love to see him come to St. Louis. Wonder if the cards could even come close to a deal? GM John Mozaliak needs to have the discussion with the marlins before we sign beltran.
Hanley is a tough call for a GM. He has the talent to be a superstar, but he does have an attitiude and doesn’t play hard all the time. The Marlins would be smart to see what they could get for him.
Who cares if Albert is upset at the way the Cardinals handled negotiations, everyone should be. Its amazing that Pujols wanted a 10 year deal, and despite the fact that the last 10-year deal, signed to a player 4 years younger (who was juicing) is becoming an increasingly epic failure, several teams rushed to give him one. I honestly believed that Pujols would remain a Cardinal, just because no GM in their right mind would ever offer another contract like A. Rod’s. Yet it happened.
The Cardinals should have offered him a 5-6 year deal worth 25~ million a year, but undoubtedly they felt the enormous pressure of the Cardinal nation to lock him up. That of course meant giving (or trying to give) him what he wanted: A cripplingly long contract that nets him around $5000 dollars per pitch for the next ten years, a paycheck that alot of Americans wouldn’t mind seeing on a monthly basis.
Perhaps other GMs saw it as their only chance to have a true superstar, to maybe rub off a little Cardinal magic on their franchises. But that doesn’t excuse the insanity, and they will undoubtedly eat this contract sooner or later, and there’s plenty of time for “later”.
No doubt Pu Bear will be remembered as one of the greatest Cardinals of all time. Im sure he will even get a statue outside of Busch Stadium. Bronze however? I’m not so sure. I think silver might be a better choice. That way we can watch as his statue becomes tarnished, just like his damned legacy in St. Louis.
“Pu Bear”? Really?
“Within the industry, the Rangers are viewed as the frontrunner for Yu Darvish, given the extensive scouting they’ve done.” Yet it will come down to money. Unless you are correlating the interest with a huge offer, the Rangers are in no better shape to land Darvish than any team. A $50 million offer should do it. I doubt the Red Sox or Cubs do it because of Theo’s past with Dice K.
I think the Rangers’ bid for Darvish should max at around $40M and offer him a 4yr/$70M contract ($17.5M/yr) with team options on the 5th and 6th year.
As for Fielder is concerned, Shields, Darvish, Garza, Gonzalez, Oswalt, Jurrjens should all be ahead of Fielder as far as Rangers needs are concerned. If they are going to get only one above average player it better be a pitcher. Any pitcher/Fielder combination would be perfect.
The only player I would give my top prospects for would be David Price, James Shields or Kershaw. Give them Martin Perez, Engel Beltre, Scott Feldman and Tanner Scheppers. If we are getting Fielder…sub Mitch Moreland for Scheppers.
Just imagine if we win the Darvish sweepstakes…we’re still going to have money AND prospects to make another major acquisition, be it in the offseason or in the summer.
not gonzalez.. if you look at his splits, he’s basically Rzepcynski…. unless you get him for not top 5 prospects, he wont be worth it..
but adding Fielder and Garza would make this team really competitive.
Gio , meh. Garza , yes , but will cost a ton. Fielder , not happening. Darvish seems to be the only big money risk that COULD happen this offseason for the Jays IMO.
Wow….this is great. Rzepcynski? Seriously?? All this talk of his home ballpark being the only thing that makes him a good pitcher, and his BB rate making him Oliver Perez has reached the point of ridiculousness.
but I don’t get that.. why 100 million for an unknown commodity rather than 150 million for a known commodity?
I would take Gio ahead of the head case Garza. Why do you suppose such a “talent” moves around as much as Jesse Orosco did. Garza is always available no matter where he plays? There’s a reason.
I didn’t mean the comparison in a bad way. Rzep is a fine pitcher and will be a good middle rotation starter one day.
Which is exactly what Gio is.
why don’t you look at their splits, pitches, etc before your disagree with someone.
You guys overrate gio gonzalez, realistically Cahill is on par with Gio and A’s got a meh deal for him, yet everyone wants a Halladay type haul for Gonzalez
homers/
Comments like this really show that certain people look at stats too much instead of watching any games. It really is a shame.
Either Gio or Garza would be an upgrade for the Jays pitching staff. Neither one makes them a contender, if you get Fielder and Garza your in contention.
lol the ‘watch the games!!111’ argument gets me every time
I concede, Gio gonzalez is amazing and will totally be the best pitcher on the Jays, his stats against the yankees, red sox are irrelevant, because I didn’t in fact watch those games.
Someone get AA on the phone, tell Lawrie to pack his bags ASAP!
that’s why pretty much every GM relies heavily on stats
I agree. Everyone knows that a casual observation of a game (especially if one has a bias in any way) is a much better barometer of performance than advanced statistics.
You’re on fire today dude.
CC sabathia was traded a bunch of times.. So has Cliff Lee. You’re reading way too much in to that
Cubs didnt even say Garza was available… calm down. We’re just speculating.
Edit – posted wrong reply by accident lol
depends on how the jays look at it. about half of that 100 mil will not count against the payroll. that was a big deal for boston and it may be significant to toronto too
in my mind, it really shouldn’t be fielder or a top pitcher. it’s either both or neither
Awwww.. now they’re attacking the posters as everything they’ve been spoonfed by Billy Beane has come crashing down. Cute.
Go watch Moneyball. It’s the only thing the Athletics have going for them at this point.
people who use = instead of spelling “equals” lack the intelligence to spell…
For what it’s worth, “meh” is recognized as a word by DictionaryDOTcom and Urban Dictionary now.
good one dude!
especially considering you haven’t been able to form a rebuttal that even comes close to matching my argument, so instead try to attack me personally.. What exactly does that say about you?
it’s going to be pretty funny when the jays acquire gonzalez tomorrow
in a deal for jeff mathis
But Gio is a top of the rotation pitcher. You’re hurting the feelings of Oaklands fans. All 5 of them.
If Oakland and the Marlins contracted, their fanbase would still be outdone by the Rays’.
With CC it was about money every time not attitude. Comapring CC to Garza is moronic. Garza comes unglued too easily to be a #1 or 2 on a contender.
People who have expos in their usename are obviously obsolete losers…..
that’s the thing.. if the A’s said hey, we’ll take eric thames and fringe prospect for gonzalez, then fine sure pull the trigger..
but if we are talking top 5 prospects here, just sign E Jacks. its just not worth it.
I agree with this.
Thats why AA can’t make a big trade. Thames would not even start on half the teams in baseball.
obsolete haha that’s funny coming from the guy that looks like John Wayne’s grandfather.
yes thats what I did, I compared Garza to CC…
Yes Garza keeps getting traded so he’s a terrible person. you win.
Actually I was planning on netflixing the movie that was made about the Jays and how they revolutionized the game…. or even won anything relevant in the past 15 years. I guess not…have fun staying in the basement in the AL East for forever because you clowns thinks guys like Lawrie are the godsend because he hits a few bombs his rookie year. It will take something different than you have done before to get past the big guys in your division but just keep your heads in the stat books. Its really working out for you.