SATURDAY: Slusser reports that the cash considerations going to the Diamondbacks will be "a couple of hundred thousand dollars."
FRIDAY: As was rumored earlier today, the Diamondbacks have acquired pitchers Trevor Cahill and Craig Breslow from the Athletics for minor leaguers Jarrod Parker, Collin Cowgill and Ryan Cook, according to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle (Twitter links) and Steve Gilbert of MLB.com (Twitter). The Diamondbacks will also receive cash from Oakland, tweets Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic.
The centerpiece of the trade for Arizona is Cahill, a right-handed starter who has logged more than 175 innings in each of his three seasons as a Major Leaguer. The groundballer (53.3% career rate) is under team control at least through 2015 and perhaps through 2017, depending on two club options. He'll join Ian Kennedy and Daniel Hudson at the top of the D'Backs' rotation, with Josh Collmenter and perhaps (or not) Joe Saunders at the back end.
On a conference call with reporters on Friday night, D'Backs GM Kevin Towers said the timing was right to make a move of this nature:
“A lot of it is just the depth that we have in the system. Certainly, Jarrod Parker was a tough piece to give up, but with Trevor Bauer, Tyler Skaggs and Charles Brewer, we feel we’ve got depth in the starting rotation – also, Wade Miley. We see a window here, specifically in the NL West. We’re kind of in a go-for-it mode.”
Clearly, Cahill will be counted on as one of the mainstays of the D'Backs' rotation, but it wasn't long ago he seemed destined to remain in Oakland after inking a multiyear extension in April:
"I defintely thought I’d be with them a bit longer. But their history is, they usually keep guys when they don’t make too much, then trade them off for prospects. I thought I’d be there longer, but I'm glad to be part of a team that’s headed in the right direction."
Breslow, a lefty reliever, kicked around earlier in his career before latching on with the A's the past three seasons. He's posted a career 3.80 FIP, and with no significant lefty/righty splits, Towers said Breslow will likely be used as a swing lefty out of Kirk Gibson's bullpen in 2012. He is eligible for free agency after 2013.
In Parker, Cowgill and Cook, the A's get three prospects who all have far less than a full season of service time. Of them, Parker, a right-handed starter, is regarded by scouts as having the highest ceiling. Now 24, Parker pitched mostly in the minors in 2011 after missing all of 2010 due to Tommy John surgery. He was ranked No. 19 in Keith Law's top 50 minor league prospects in July.
Cowgill is a 25-year-old outfielder who made his Major League debut in 2011 after posting a .383 career on-base percentage in parts of four minor league seasons. Cook was a starter in the minors before being converted to relief work in 2011. He has a "strong arm, chance for a good slider," tweets Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus.
John Gambadoro of Sports 620 KTAR in Phoenix first tweeted the rumored trade, and Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com, Piecoro, Slusser and Gilbert all filled in with details.
I’ll give this one to oakland when parker wins the CY someday. but until then, dbacks improve.
Diamondbacks get a capable lefty in the pen and yet Cahill was overvalued (overrated) by the A’s. 2/3 seasons he could not find the strikezone 154 walks in those two seasons alone, Diamondbacks clearly lost on this one as Parker has much better potential than Cahill.
Why doesn’t anyone seem to understand that when trading with prospects, a higher value always has to be given up? The team giving up the prospects are paying for production now, and all prospect development is at least a little bit of a crapshoot. That being said, I think you are undervaluing Cahill and overvaluing Parker.
I agree, but I also think they wanted someone to pitch NOW, as they have 2 better SP prospects to pair with Kennedy and Hudson long-term in Bauer and Skaggs. This gives them possibly the best 5-man long-term in the NL, if not all of baseball.
Most teams would LOVE to call Trevor Cahill the worst pitcher in their long-term rotation.
You write as if a 23 year old is master of his craft. Calm down, Cahill will be very good for AZ.
the way i see it. they are the same age and cahill is currently the better pitcher. why, because cahill is a major leaguer, does he have to have hit his ceiling while parker still has potential just because he is a prospect?
You’re overrating Parker. The guy has had 1 MLB start. Cahill has a good track record in the majors, and is only 24.
You’re overrating Parker. The guy has had 1 MLB start. Cahill has a good track record in the majors, and is only 24.
That’s a pretty light package and I’m not even a Cahill fan.
Agreed, from an A’s fan perspective this deal is meh. Cahill will probably win the Cy Young next year, sigh.
Sorry, but this deal is worse than meh. Pretty disturbing that Beane has gotten this bad. I still haven’t watched Moneyball yet, and likely never will. (Although the book was great)
Sorry, but this deal is worse than meh. Pretty disturbing that Beane has gotten this bad. I still haven’t watched Moneyball yet, and likely never will. (Although the book was great)
I cannot believe the A’s sent money to AZ in this deal. Really bad move by the A’s here.
Is it me or are almost every trade scenario mentioned on mlbtr end up being EXTREMELY mediocre?
Haha…I mean A’s fans were demanding Montero + Betances + more.
PS to Cashman: We couldn’t beat this deal without giving up either Montero or Banuelos?
works pretty well for both sides. i like parker’s potential better than cahill’s, but the diamondbacks have two elite SP prospects behind him and are already contenders. cahill provides cost certainty for 4-6 years, upside, and plenty of groundballs in a homer-friendly ballpark
Thanks for summing up my thoughts!
Me too!! Saves me time typing.
parker’s easily the best prospect in oakland’s system
Dbacks get better now. AND they still have Skaggs and bauer in the system.
Kennedy-Hudson-Cahill for years to come sounds good.
Haven’t you been so against this trade on the other thread??
Yeah I changed my mind. haha
I was okay with the trade when it was Parker/Cowgill/Miley. Now I absolutely love it with -Miley & + cook.
I changed my mind too, mostly because I saw they were planning on getting rid of Saunders.
“Another player”…if its Bauer A’s fans needn’t bother with Dec 25.
It’s Ryan Cook.
That means Bailey’s time in Oakland is done.
Its not as good as I’d hoped, I’d have hung onto to Cahill for another year but its not a terrible haul.
Means nothing and even if the A’s trade Bailey, it better be for a position player that can actually hit.
wow unbelievable A’s what is this?
It’s Billy Beane raising a middle finger to the Giants.
I’m hoping it means a new f’n stadium. Oakland or SJ i dont even care anymore.
Haha. Did Beane give them a small “Screw over the Giants” discount?
Haha. Did Beane give them a small “Screw over the Giants” discount?
Not Ryan Cook!
Oh man, its Cook….its bye bye Andrew Bailey then.
Man if the A’s are on there Cali kush right now Angels should jump on board and offer them Brad Mills for Bailey so the pen can get stronger
that would have to be some deadly kush
Very
Well, you know they have it up in Oakland.
I cant say i love it as a Dback fan. I guess i overvalue prospects.. sigh.. I like Parker.
I cant say i love it as a A’s fan. I guess i dont overvalue prospects.. sigh.. I like Cahill.
hehe – what does it mean if neither team’s fans like the deal? Fair deal?? haha.
Kinda light package for Cahill alone, not to mention also throwing in Breslow
I really don’t think this is a great deal, if Bauer got added then yes but now its kind of meh without him.
Isn’t Parker a top 25 prospect?
Maybe, after TJ who knows? Cahill was BA’s #11 best prospect in 08 then A’s rushed him to the bigs in 09 after a mere 6 games at AA, but now people here say he sucks and lacks a high ceiling because of that, so….meh.
Maybe, after TJ who knows? Cahill was BA’s #11 best prospect in 08 then A’s rushed him to the bigs in 09 after a mere 6 games at AA, but now people here say he sucks and lacks a high ceiling because of that, so….meh.
Can Cowgill play CF? How is he defensively?
He will very most likely be the A’s CF until Grant Green is ready.
I guess that’s good. Geez, by ST we’ll have a dozen minor leaguers vying for the 4 OF spots.
Pretty darn good on defense. I think he will be an ok offensive player as well. He is just a guy. I wouldnt expect too much, although i dont think he is as bad an offensive player as he showed in AZ. (Inconsistent playing time a factor??)
I think he’s a little more than “just a guy”, Cook would take that honor in this deal, Beane’s been after Cowgill since he drafted him and he’s been trying to trade for him ever since. Beane’s targets sometimes pan out, sometimes they don’t.
We watched him get worked over pretty good last year… I know it wasnt consistent ABs at all, but there were some ugly moments… I will root for him, because i like how he plays, but im pretty certain he is just a guy.
Cowgill is not “just a guy”. He was stuck as the 4th OF with inconsistent ABs in a Dbacks uniform.
Cowgill is not “just a guy”. He was stuck as the 4th OF with inconsistent ABs in a Dbacks uniform.
I’d be with you on that if Beane hadn’t tried to get him multiple times. I still trust his judgement on younger players.
I also think he had no future in that OF and was treated as such, I always say if players don’t get at least 3 months of everyday playing time, after being everyday players in the minors, it often screws with their psyche.
I’d be with you on that if Beane hadn’t tried to get him multiple times. I still trust his judgement on younger players.
I also think he had no future in that OF and was treated as such, I always say if players don’t get at least 3 months of everyday playing time, after being everyday players in the minors, it often screws with their psyche.
Cowgill starts in most OFs
Nah. Probably not.
Probably not, but I saw him plenty when he played in Reno and he’s a very good defender with a good batting eye. Stats were horribly inflated by the environment, but he could still be an average starting OF.
Thought you said Cowgirl at first….maybe I need glasses
Cool. Think I like this deal for both teams. D’backs get a pretty good groundball (super important) SP and a serviceable lefty reliever. A’s get super pitching prospect, a meh OF prospect, and relief prospect which is usually kind of a crapshoot.
woop woop
the i think the dbacks paid to much for breslow, but the A´S lost whit ryan cook, he´s realy, realy bad pitcher
Cook is NASTY when he is throwing strikes.
I hope so, he’s probably going to be the A’s closer next year.
I think De Los Santos will be the A’s closer.
or balfour, if they keep him this offseason.
I think its a battle between those two and maybe Devine if he’s still around, that will be won in ST.
I think its a battle between those two and maybe Devine if he’s still around, that will be won in ST.
I think De Los Santos will be the A’s closer.
The closer for the A’s AAA team.
I hope so, he’s probably going to be the A’s closer next year.
Cook got absolutely lit up the two very short stints he was witht he bigs this last year. That being said, until then he absolutely dominated and will probably be just fine on a team that has the time to let him grow a bit. The Dbacks paid out just about right most likely. Parker will be solid for the A’s and be even friendlier contract-wise than Cahill. A starting OFer (likely CF) in Cowgill makes it a pretty decent haul both directions.
Breslow has a decent gb% so I can get on board with him. We needed another lefty, but he’s a soft-tosser in a hitter’s park. Ugh.
Cook got absolutely lit up the two very short stints he was witht he bigs this last year. That being said, until then he absolutely dominated and will probably be just fine on a team that has the time to let him grow a bit. The Dbacks paid out just about right most likely. Parker will be solid for the A’s and be even friendlier contract-wise than Cahill. A starting OFer (likely CF) in Cowgill makes it a pretty decent haul both directions.
Breslow has a decent gb% so I can get on board with him. We needed another lefty, but he’s a soft-tosser in a hitter’s park. Ugh.
Excellent deal for the A’s. Cahill is extremely ovverated. He’s a #3 pitcher at best. No K’s, too many BB’s, a lot of HR. Even his ERA is mediocre aside from 2010. Parker has ace upside. The other two aren’t great but still, very good job Beane.
So what Ive gathered from posts like this is: if you are rushed to the majors when you should be at AAA all year, no matter what happens good or bad, people will use that against you.
Stop saying a 23 year old who actually starts 30+ games a year is overrated. Cahill will be great in AZ. Groundball pitcher, filthy sinker, only 23 years old and still learning at the big league level but will be dominant for long periods of time. As an A’s fan, we’ve heard this Parker story before, only the name was Dan Meyer last time.
I hope the league switch helps him as well – away from the DH. Park change will NOT help him, but his GB tendencies may make park less a factor than other pitchers coming to AZ.
AZ’s got an OF made of gold glovers and solid defense all around the diamond, good chance Cahill’s ERA drops under 3.00 next year.
Possible if only because he’ll be facing the offenses of the Dodgers, Giants and Padres around a dozen times…
I hope the league switch helps him as well – away from the DH. Park change will NOT help him, but his GB tendencies may make park less a factor than other pitchers coming to AZ.
So what Ive gathered from posts like this is: if you are rushed to the majors when you should be at AAA all year, no matter what happens good or bad, people will use that against you.
Stop saying a 23 year old who actually starts 30+ games a year is overrated. Cahill will be great in AZ. Groundball pitcher, filthy sinker, only 23 years old and still learning at the big league level but will be dominant for long periods of time. As an A’s fan, we’ve heard this Parker story before, only the name was Dan Meyer last time.
At age 23, Cahill has time to develop into a true #2.
I really don’t get Beane though. Cahill was signed to a team friendly deal and could’ve been kept for a modest 3/$16.7 mil. He had 3 full seasons before he had to worry about him being expensive. At what point do you attempt to compete?
he’s been open about waiting for the new ballpark for quite awhile
A true #2 that pitches in the 80s? Meh….not sure there.
does that really matter that much? What sinkerballers do you know that throw mid 90s…hell even low 90s. Brandon Webb won a Cy Young throwing 80s sinkers.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Webb was an ace and never averaged a fastball velocity over 89, it’s sad he’s fallen so far due to injuries.
Landing Cowgill means Sweeney is out of the lineup, hallelujah!
How do u not want sweeney in the lineup he is way better then cowgill!
How do u not want sweeney in the lineup he is way better then cowgill!
Not sure how Cahill is viewed as any better than Jarrod Parker, but good for the A’s to get him.
A’s get a close or ready for majors closer, a pitching prospect with good upside, and a decent piece in the outfielder for Cahill, who has pitched like an ace at times. I think it’s a pretty fair deal.
cook’s control is lacking.
cook’s control is lacking.
Youre probably the most right. No team got hosed here, but both sides feel underwhelmed.
I feel underwhelmed, but I think only because of all the previously bandied about names that eventually became Cook.
A lot of people seem to think Parker is a big question mark and underrate Cowgill.
Parker has more upside than Cahill but needs to play up to it. He’ll still make the rotation though. And Cowgill is a solid big league OFer. Cowgill for Breslow and Cook/Parker for Cahill seems just about right. If Parker and Cook both play up to potential, the A’s are sitting nice. If they both play to something a bit under, then I think the Dbacks are probably the winners here.
Solid trade though.
I agree Breslow/Cowgill is a good trade, but Parker/Cook for Cahill is a terrible trade for the A’s. AZ needed to add a piece here for me to like this deal for Oakland.
I think both sides feel underwhelmed because as baseball fans we are all hoping for the Haren trade every time. Its like winning a car on the price is right and the curtain opens to be a Ford Fiesta and you saw corvettes handed out on previous shows. Still nice but you want more.
People have a propensity to value something they have at a higher value than they would actually pay for the very same item.
Youre probably the most right. No team got hosed here, but both sides feel underwhelmed.
If any young pitcher replaces Bailey, its De Los Santos.
Cahill has never pitched like an ace UNLESS you only look at ERA. His peripherals have been bad in ever year he has pitched.
he’s never been advertised as an ace. few even think of him as having ace potential anymore. he’s going to be a #3 this year in AZ and his upside is a good #2 with a team-friendly contract
gotta give up talent to get it. dbacks fans can take solace in bauer and skaggs — two guys most organizations would kill to have even one of — while watching their big league club make the playoffs again in 2012
These AZ fans are being mighty greedy, huh? Imagine if you were an A’s fan right now—-no wait, take that noose off from around your neck!
These AZ fans are being mighty greedy, huh? Imagine if you were an A’s fan right now—-no wait, take that noose off from around your neck!
Exactly this considering the park he plays in too.
He does not strike out a lot of guys at all and he walks way too many to be that kind of pitcher.
Both him and Gio are way overrated. Gio will get mashed if he plays in the AL east, just look at that terrible BB rate. None of these guys have done anything special, I don’t understand why Beane is asking so much for them.
“I don’t understand why Beane is asking so much for them.”
… because he might get what he’s asking?
They’re different situations. Cahill’s sinker isn’t totally reliable and may get mashed, but Gio has a wonderful fastball-curve combination and won’t. Gio’s issue is whether he can reduce his walks.
Exactly this considering the park he plays in too.
He does not strike out a lot of guys at all and he walks way too many to be that kind of pitcher.
Both him and Gio are way overrated. Gio will get mashed if he plays in the AL east, just look at that terrible BB rate. None of these guys have done anything special, I don’t understand why Beane is asking so much for them.
Wow, I think the A’s got ripped off on this one.
I have no idea why.
“dude proven stud that almost won a Cy Young for some worthless prospects” – My best talk radio impression.
Parker will be in your rotation next year. Cook might or might not be an option as a Closer, and a starting OF in Cowgill with doubles power, good speed and an accurate arm. Exactly where is the lack of value?
Cahill is signed until 2017 and will probably be flipped for more than this in 2 years after putting up good numbers on a contending team. The A’s needed Bauer or Skaggs to make them feel good about this deal.
I can see your point on Skaggs but Bauer was 100% not going to happen
apparently the dbax originally asked for cahill and gio, but the a’s insisted on skaggs and az said no. if thats true holy crap the dbax made a booboo.
I thought it was Gio instead of Cahill, then after Beane asked for Skaggs, the talks turned to Cahill.
I think Johnson was joking.
“dude proven stud that almost won a Cy Young for some worthless prospects” – My best talk radio impression.
Because Cahill is only 1 year older than Parker, and an established MLBer. That’s why.
Cahill is 5 months older-not even a full year older. Sorry 9 months older
They are same age.
I have no idea why.
YEP.
Arizona has one hell of a rotation now.
Both of the players are overrated by each team’s fans. AZ fans are taking as reference the 5 2/3 vs LA, and the A’s fans take the 2010 season.
As a DBack fan, I will miss Parker because we waited 3 seasons to him to debut, and was the AZ farm reference for o couple of years.
I’m not an A’s fan, but I’m disappointed in Beane’s return. My initial reaction was, “wow, they got Parker!”
Yea…..but they gave up Cahill doing it. And Breslow is about equivalent to Cook’s potential. So really, it was like a swap of Cahill for Parker and Cowgill, which, if you look at it that way, is a terrible return for the great talent that Cahill is.
Ryan Cook. lol Thunder Thighs!!
Ryan Cook. lol Thunder Thighs!!
I’ve watched or listened to every A’s game for the past decade, and I can tell you that Cahill is a fantastic pitcher. One of the best we’ve had. I’m sorry to see him go and think that when everything’s settled, the A’s will have come out on the short end of this deal.
He does put Todd Van Poppel to shame.
All kidding aside the A’s have had some great pitchers throughout the history of the franchise.
I’ve watched or listened to every A’s game for the past decade, and I can tell you that Cahill is a fantastic pitcher. One of the best we’ve had. I’m sorry to see him go and think that when everything’s settled, the A’s will have come out on the short end of this deal.
question to a Dback fan does cowgill have potential?
yes he does. He has tons of speed and good Defense. I like this trade for both sides, makes sense.
Very little. Cowgill profiles as a bench player, but may have the chance to stick around awhile in that role.
Cowgill will be a pleasant addition to the A’s. He’s WAY better than a 4th OF. But the Dbacks have one of the most solid OFs in the game defensively, so he simply was never going to break through.
It was painful to watch Cowgill hit last year.
Cowgill will be a pleasant addition to the A’s. He’s WAY better than a 4th OF. But the Dbacks have one of the most solid OFs in the game defensively, so he simply was never going to break through.
question to a Dback fan does cowgill have potential?
Wow.. Kennedy, Cahill, Hudson, then Bauer, Skaggs, and even Corbin coming up soon….
Wow.. Kennedy, Cahill, Hudson, then Bauer, Skaggs, and even Corbin coming up soon….
The A’s have a knack for developing pitching, so as long as Parker doesn’t get injured, this trade should benefit the A’s in the long run.
And even if Cowgill flops, he’s at least one more player to block Carter from ever stepping foot in the outfield again.
How will it “benefit the A’s in the long run”?
Cahill is only 24. They gave him up for only slightly younger talent, yet unestablished talent.
Thank god Colin Cowherd was traded
Anything to get him off ESPN is a win in my book
ok?
you pissed?
Thank god Colin Cowherd was traded
Anything to get him off ESPN is a win in my book
Wow, the DBacks got rooked on this one. I don’t know if Billy Beane is so smart, or other GM’s are just stupid, but this is going to look really godawful in 2-3 years when Parker’s an ace and Cahill/Breslow are what they are…mediocre!
If Parker becomes an Ace, then he’ll have played up to and a bit beyond his potential. In that case, good for Oakland. Chances are however he will play up to or just below his full potential as most prospects do. In that case, he’s a 2/3 starter, just what Cahill is TODAY. Dbacks paid high to get proven talent.
You’ve got it wrong. See my above comments.
We’ll see, but Cahill is a middle of the road starter and Parker can be much more. DBacks already have a Joe Saunders, now they have two while the A’s have Parker.
Cahill’s only 23 and he’s filthy. You are going to eat those words.
Goddamn it the A’s are sending money to AZ. This deal officially sucks. Cahill should have been moved next year.
Wow…uhm…and I thought Beane was the cash conscious one. Money coming back makes this deal a win-win for the Dbacks. Even if all three players going to Oakland max out their potential, the Dbacks are a better contender today than they were when they won the NL West and have financial wiggle room to get even better still.
Wow. Makes me wonder what Beane knows that KT doesn’t. Otherwise Beane got swindeled. (And I’m a Dbacks fan.)
ya this does suck i expected a lot more from the dbacks
Yep Kevin Towers is that good.
I’d be concerned about the mileage on Cahill’s arm as a dbacks fan.
The ability to absorb mileage is one of the big selling points. Dbacks needed a 200+IP guy to replace Saunders. If Cahill can’t pitch those kind of innings then this trade got a lot less palatable. As it is, witht he A’s throwing in cash, the Dbacks got a steal.
Why are you concerned about the mileage on the arm of a 23 year old entering his 4th season?
I can see how this makes sense either way – like most trades should.
For Arizona, they saw themselves with four top pitching prospects with front-line potential (Bauer, Skaggs, Archie, Parker) but just two starters in the big-leagues who are long-term fixtures (Kennedy, Hudson). Any one of the four top pitching prospects has a chance to be better than Cahill, but they’re all riskier than Cahill (sans Bauer, probably, who is going to be an absolute beast). With so much upside and risk on their hands, it’s totally understandable to want a bit more certainty. Cahill provides that, with three years of 3.91 ERA work in his career. He’s at least a sure-fire #3 starter, locked up for a relatively cheap contract, is moving to the NL West (so he should see his peripherals and productivity improve), and is just 23 (so, again, he should see his peripherals and productivity improve). Even if he doesn’t excel and become a top-of-the-rotation starter, I could see a 3.7-3.8 ERA over 800 innings from him over the next four years, and that has a ton of value. Less upside that Parker, sure, but less risky.
For Oakland, their current ballpark limbo state has them pushing off their years of contention yet again. They’re trying to line themselves up for 2014-2015, and Parker will be cheap and at his prime then. Cahill would be in the latter years of his current contract and getting fairly expensive, particularly for Oakland’s tastes. It makes sense to dump him now for someone who lines up well with their peak years, capitalizing on Cahill’s value while it’s arguably at its highest. You could argue that Oakland could have gotten more for Cahill, but you could also argue that they really like Parker and value him higher than the packages they could have received from other teams. It’s also no secret that the A’s have been after Cowgill for a while – they wanted him in the Ziegler deal instead of Allen/Norberto.
It made way more sense before the A’s threw in cash as well. I think both sides were underwhelmed as fans when it was announced, but I think that was mostly because neither side was getting a whole lot better so much as just different. Money being tossed in by Oakland gives the Dbacks some continued flexibility this off season and makes this a big win for AZ.
I doubt the money is really significant enough to matter. Might just cover part of Breslow’s salary or something like that.
I do agree with the “neither side was getting a whole lot better so much as just different” statement. Really good way of putting it.
Here’s the thing, when you are contending “probably”s and “upside” doesn’t matter at all, what you need is on field results. The A’s pretty much sold low on Cahill and it has to do with his service time, so they weren’t looking to raid anyone’s cabinet. Parker’s got promise but is a risk, Cahill is definitely no risk, youre going to get 200 innings of either decent to excellent work. No matter what though, AZ won this deal because Beane wasn’t trying to pull anything flash on them. Bauer would have had to be involved here if this was true Beane deal.
I’m not sure what a “true Beane deal” is supposed to be, but even slightly insinuating that Bauer could have been involved is crazy. He’s every bit as good as Cahill right now.
Ok I’m crazy for saying a guy who has never stood on a MLB field is not as good as someone who has 90+ career starts and is under 24.
Ohhh kayyyyyyy
/backs away slowly
you said a lot of good things except the part about “capitalizing on Cahill’s value while it is at its highest”…..Cahill’s value is currently at its lowest….At the end of the 2010 season he was 18-8 with a 2.97 E.R.A….right now, he is coming off a 12-14 season with a 4.16 E.R.A….A’s lost tons of value by not trading him last offseason
Now the A’s need to trade Parker for a top hitting prospect.
Is RepOak ok with this trade?
Billy Beane usually makes great deals when he trades his players, but he clearly lost on this one. He traded a 23 year old cost controlled starter, who has proven he can pitch in the bigs, for a 4th outfielder a pitcher who has yet prove himself and a decent reliever. A lot of people are hating on Cahill, but I think he is a guy that is a #2 work horse on any team, and given his age he could be more. D-Backs win this one big time.
I wouldn’t have minded trading Cahill at some point, but this is essentially selling low on him, he had more value after 2010, and will probably have had a better year in 2012. I just wish the A’s got Skaggs instead of Parker, whos a hard thrower whos already had TJ…not good.
Any projections of what type of numbers we will see from Cahill in AZ next season Oakland fans?
14-9 with a 3.10 era
25-5 with a 1.90 ERA
18-9 2.55ERA. he is pitching vs the dodgers, giants, padres.. with the rockies being the only good hitting team. also he is going from AL to NL
Yeah because Haren was just awesome going from Oakland to AZ. Look at such bums like Blanton and Zito once they left to go the NL. The AL West has the worst offense in baseball. Outside of Texas, the AL West had zero offense last year.
18-9 2.55ERA. he is pitching vs the dodgers, giants, padres.. with the rockies being the only good hitting team. also he is going from AL to NL
16-11 3.82 ERA 4.15 FIP
The D Backs with a steal of a trade
Took the words out of my mouth, just wow.
When will we get a steal
I wouldn’t expect a Mets fan to understand that it was quite the opposite.
The only player being more overrated here than Cahill is Parker.
I don’t think anyone is overrating Cahill. The A’s got what a middle of the rotation starter should be able to haul in.
Its funny that Cahill was actually rated as a better prospect than Parker, for the short time he was in the minors. I still cant believe he only had 6 starts at AA before being promoted.
I guess all isn’t lost if the A’s are throwing this rotation out there in the second half of 2012: Anderson-McCarthy-Braden-Parker-Gray. That has potential, I can’t see them losing 100 games with that, especially if they end up with LoMo or a decent hitter who doesn’t have much service time for Gio and Bailey.
Odds of that happening though: 25-1.
I think both teams filled needs based on where they are right now. The D’Backs get an upgrade at SP without losing any players expected to contribute a lot right away. The A’s get future value that is probably greater than the present value of the players traded. I don’t know anything about Cowgill other than his stats, but he’s run a high OBP throughout the minors which is a good sign, to me, that he has good plate discipline and pitch recognition. He’s a base stealer, not a home run hitter. If he can play D, then he’s a potential starter. Parker looks like a good prospect on paper assuming his recovery from Tommy John continues to go well.
Good deal for both teams, but I think the A’s came out a bit ahead. Cahill’s peripherals are not impressive. He looks to me like a middle rotation guy on a good team.
I think both teams filled needs based on where they are right now. The D’Backs get an upgrade at SP without losing any players expected to contribute a lot right away. The A’s get future value that is probably greater than the present value of the players traded. I don’t know anything about Cowgill other than his stats, but he’s run a high OBP throughout the minors which is a good sign, to me, that he has good plate discipline and pitch recognition. He’s a base stealer, not a home run hitter. If he can play D, then he’s a potential starter. Parker looks like a good prospect on paper assuming his recovery from Tommy John continues to go well.
Good deal for both teams, but I think the A’s came out a bit ahead. Cahill’s peripherals are not impressive. He looks to me like a middle rotation guy on a good team.
What the heck..Are the A’s just ?? what is A’s plan? They should have got Skaggs for both of these guys?? What are they trying to do?
Skaggs, a #1 LHP prospect that will likely see big league time next season and has loads of years left under team control for Cahill? Not a chance. Cahill is already on a big league contract and has #2 stuff on a good day and is usually a #3. Trades are supposed to be about being somewhat equal. In this deal, they pretty much are.
Skaggs is a number 1 PROSPECT..And Cahill already has a BIG LEAGUE CONTRACT..Exactly why Skaggs should have been moved instead..But w/e this argument is pointless since it happened already..it is what it is
You don’t think Parker will see big league time next year too? Even in AZ? He did last year and probably will in 2012.
gotta love Beane and his man crushes (Cowgill). Maybe he can bring Erubiel Durazo back. Yay!
At this point, Ruby has more power than half the people in the A’s lineup.
Some of you saying that too many prospects were given up and the DBacks ‘lost’ the trade, well, you’re missing something on the word prospect. PROSPECT = POTENTIAL = RAW = MINOR LEAGUE = PROSPECT = PROSPECT = PROSPECT, not major league ready material.
Except that Parker and Cowgill are not prospects. They are in fact major league ready. Cowgill will be your starting CF. Parker will be in your rotation. He would have been in AZ’s rotation last year, but we had no openings and still don’t. Cook is the one piece of raw potential. High ceiling for him is as a stud Closer. Average ceiling for him he winds up a set-up man.
Neither team really “won” in this deal, but the Dbacks paid a high price for talent that is likely already at its peak.
Okay, without saying my opinion on the trade I see a BIG problem with the way some people are looking at a certain player. To try and prove a point I’m going to post the career numbers of two pitchers without giving their names.
Pitcher A – K/9: 5.48 BB/9: 3.35 GB%: 53.3% HR/FB: 12.1%
Pitcher B – K/9: 5.94 BB/9: 3.91 GB%: 52.6% HR/FB: 10.2%
And for those who are interested…
Pitcher A – FIP: 4.51 xFIP: 4.23
Pitcher B – FIP: 4.39 xFIP: 4.35
These two pitchers have very similar career lines wouldn’t you say? For the old school people out there, what if I told one recently took a large step forward in ERA and one recently took a large step back? One of these pitchers is being called an ace and one is Charlie Morton.
Cahill is pitcher A. Charlie Morton is pitcher B. Cahill has had an average career in the major leagues so far and is showing no signs of improving, he is not an ace. In fact, it could be argued that Charlie Morton would be the better get of the two for the Diamond backs due to Cahill’s ridiculous HR/FB rate that he’s posted despite being in one of most HR suppressing parks in the league. Moving to Chase field from Oakland will see the amount of HRs he gives up SKYROCKET. Some people seem to think that just because he’s a ground ball pitcher he does not also give up a ton of homers but that’s incorrect making him a horrible fit for the Dbacks.
Did you factor in Cahill is 24 and Charlie Morton is 28?
Did you factor in that Cahill had exactly 6 starts at AA before being rushed into the rotation in 2009, hence having crappy numbers for that season that you really shouldn’t be using to make arguments with?
If you’re still not convinced…
Cahill – Home ERA 2011: 3.20 Home ERA career: 3.24 Away ERA 2011: 5.23 Away ERA career: 4.71
6 starts at AA. 23 years old….if you are trying to make a concrete argument against a pitcher with those factors in his favor, you are never going to make any kind of a valid point. Its really not wise to write off pitchers before they are 30 who have 90 starts in 3 years, and you are doing this to a guy who is under 24….christ.
I’m afraid you don’t understand. I’m not “writing him off” I’m saying that based on the information that we have now from the over 500 major league innings Cahill has pitched there is no reason to believe that he will be successful in AZ. I’m not saying it’s not possible but it’s not likely based on the evidence.
Also 6 starts at AA is irrelevant as is his age when he debuted.If he shouldn’t be judged based on what he’s actually done, what should he be judged on? If you say his minor league performance then he’s no more a sure thing than Jarrod Parker.
Also try not to make ad homenim arguments in your posts, it’s annoying and does not work in your favor.
Well you have not chosen a good comparison player. You should choose a player with around 500-600 innings pitched and at age 24. Baseball reference lists Alex Fernandez.
Age and future success has been proving critically important more than once. I don’t consider Charlie Morton a good comparison because of the age difference of 4 years. I think 4 years is a significant enough gap to say this is a bad comp. A player within 1-2 years of age would have been much better.
If Charlie Morton was 24 or 25 now and that data was for his age 20-24 season I would consider that a much better comparison. However, 4 years difference (in a sport where 12 years is a long career) weakens your argument.
I understand your point but I’m not comparing their value or saying that I think they’ll produce the same results from this point forward.
My Morton comparison is a response to the people saying that Cahill is a prove MLB talent or a proven ace. I used Charlie Morton to demonstrate that so far in his career he has not demonstrated that he is a great pitcher and that his career numbers are almost identical to a player most would not consider to have demonstrated that he is an ace.
Its more annoying when people judge numbers at absolute face value and don’t take in the context in which they occurred. I really have no idea what you are even on about, first you say “Im not writing him off” then you say “based on my cherrypicked raw data with no other thought put into it, there is no reason to believe he will be successful in AZ”.
It absolutely is likely Cahill will be a beast in AZ, even with his past numbers. He’s so young and you dont care about that, thats infuriating to have to read.
His big league numbers have been good but always getting better, I’m an A’s fan and have watched tons of his starts, he’s a great groundball pitcher right now, maybe the best one in baseball.
Im just going to stop after this because its clear you don’t understand how players develop in the bigs and are essentially trolling at this point. Bye.
I’m sorry to have offended you by trying to reasonably discuss a players true talent even if I don’t understand how that is possible. You are entitled to your opinion just as I’m entitled to mine all this emotion is unnecessary. Though, I’m a little disappointed by the level of discourse that is obviously the standard of the internet. But what do I know, obviously I’m just “trolling”.
Look what the A’s are doing. Every move, every word, says “We’re trading everything and won’t try to contend until we get to San Jose. We don’t care if we draw less people in Oakland than the old Montreal Expos.” Twenty-eight other teams and 90 percent of the agents know this now, they say it on MLB Network, even casual fans of Eastern teams say it. They’ve burned all bridges with Oakland. They’ve built up a sense of inevitability to get the votes to crush the Giants’opposition to them moving to San Jose. Hell, they’re even giving pieces to the team the Giants has to fear the most.
The A’s may not have gotten better with tonight’s deal, but they certainly got deeper. Instead of a #3 RHP already on a big league contract, they got a starting OFer and a high ceiling starter that will be in next year’s rotation that still has years of low salary time ahead of him. They certainly haven’t really gotten any worse. The biggest thing they MIGHT be losing is innings. Cahill has pitched quite a few the last 2 years.
That’s true but Cahill is more valuable than the package he was moved for and really needed to bring in another quality prospect, considering AZ has like 40 of those, Beane failed here.
i dont disagree they shouldve got an additional prospect but i dont think it was a failure either
Dislike. Hardcore dislike. Not cool. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TRADE YOUR PIECES JUST BECAUSE A DIVISION RIVAL GOT BETTER.
If Cahill can return to 2010 form, this is a steal by AZ. Jarrod Parker hasn’t proved anything yet. Yes, his potential “high” is front of the line ace, but realistic expectations put him at a solid 2 or very good 3.
his 2010 was result of the lowest BABIP in baseball
Yes because he had a phenomenal INF defense behind him, and is a groundball pitcher. He was also 22 which is a great result.
If this has anything to do with screwing over the Giants because of their blocking San Jose, than this doesn’t have anything to do with the A’s getting younger, cheaper or deeper. The story that AZ asked for Gio+Cahill but balked at including Skaggs and Parker really shows that what Beane is trying to do is to strengthen the Giants #1 competitor.
The plot be thickening….
doubt it. its more about probably dumping cahill’s contract which they jumped the gun on. he’s solid but not that great. They get a pitcher who might have as much upside + an OF who theyve liked for awhile. Add in the revenues of rangers/angels is so high and oakland is basically sending a message to selig/mlb they need a new stadium resolution soon. Though towers and beane are good friend i wouldnt doubt an FU to the giants might be somewhat part of it. Plus maybe more freed up $$ to put a bid on darvish, who knows.
Again, the negativity on Cahill here is entirely unsubstantiated because everyone adds in his rookie season numbers where he was supposed to be at AAA anyway. Cahill was the 11th best prospect in baseball prior to the 09 season, has an all-star appearance and has had some remarkably dominant stretches for a guy who isnt 24 yet.
Its like, how can anyone see Cahill’s excellent slider and obscene groundball rates, then add in the worst A’s INF defense seen in years and equate it with Cahill stinking in 2011? Its hurting my brain how short sighted people are in underrating Cahill, I’d honestly rather have him right now than Ian Kennedy, because he’s 23 and already done so much and improved every year in one aspect of his game.
gio, mccarthy, moscoso managed to have nice seasons with that terrible defense. A’s problem isnt pitching, they’ll be fine with or without cahill in that area. Hopefully health pending braden/anderson will be back. Outman another yr off tj surgery. They seem to love Ross, but we’ll see. Plus they’ll have parker/gray who IMO can be those next great starters for A’s. Plus i’m sure if they make more trade they’ll add another starter or two that way. IMO it wasnt a rip off trade or a terrible one. I will expect them to go after impaxct hitting prospects in gio/bailey trades
The A’s aren’t screwing Giants with the trade, they are screwing the few A’s that are left, with losing teams for the next 5 years.
Did you think the A’s were going to beat the Angels and Rangers over the next 5 years? Really?
Wow surprise surprise, Oakland trades another good player for prospects. I am so sick of everyone calling Billy Beane a genius when all he does is trade good players TO SAVE MONEY. HOW CAN YOU WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP W/ALL YOUNG PLAYERS? you need the vets to guide the young guys and keep them in line. All this team does is trade talent for prospects, never make the playoffs (or they don’t go far) and the guy gets a gddam movie made about him with Brad Pitt? WTF? And he wanted to trade GIO??? I am so glad I’m not a dumb Oakland fan because I’m not into the whole mediocre thing. G-d, I wish other people would see what I do and that is a GM who refuses to build a winner.
Parker is number 25 on the top 100 prospects of 2011.
It probably means they will move him and Bailey and have a top 5 farm system when all is said and done.
cowgill is a bench player for the D-backs and they have plenty of minor league outfielders to do the same thing. Parker is a high-end pitching prospect but the d-backs have some of those too…better ones I’d say.
Not clearly.
Nelson, are you crazy. How did the A’s win this trade? Even if they didn’t give up Breslow, they still lost it. They didn’t get a fair return for Cahill
they’d need a couple more huge hauls to break the top 5, but they’ll certainly have tons of talent. and a very high draft position, by the looks of it. now for a new stadium
I hope they make an offer to Darvish to cover the loss of Cahill, Beane has never once fielded a team on opening day that didn’t look like it could compete, but this time it looks like he’s throwing in the towel completely on 2012-2014. It sure sucks to be an A’s fan…
i guess i’m in the minority, but i’ve always thought that if i knew my team wasn’t going to contend, i wouldn’t want them to really compete at all. trade the older talent for prospects, fill the roster with short-term tradeable pieces, and reel in the high draft position
might not be fun for most fans to watch, but it would mean a faster turnaround. i’ll take 2-3 seasons of last place over 4-5 of third place
I would rather spend 100 million on scouts than on Darvish.
You heard? Look at stats to support your theory because his k/9 went up but he was very inconsistent this year.
His strikeout rate has gone up every year of his career.
Strikeouts went slightly up, walks went slightly up, HR rate slightly down, FIP slightly down. It was actually a clone of the previous year, not including the ERA and wins.
Strikeouts went slightly up, walks went slightly up, HR rate slightly down, FIP slightly down. It was actually a clone of the previous year, not including the ERA and wins.
You are HORRIBLY overrating Cahill. He is a decent pitcher, not great at all and CERTAINLY not excellent. He’s much worse than Brett Anderson and probably Gio too. And I’d much rather have Parker on my team.
You are HORRIBLY overrating Cahill. He is a decent pitcher, not great at all and CERTAINLY not excellent. He’s much worse than Brett Anderson and probably Gio too. And I’d much rather have Parker on my team.
What do you see in Cowgil?
What do you see in Cowgil?
lol. I think he’s overrated
lol. I think he’s overrated
+1
+1
He’s got speed, an accurate slightly above average throwing arm, plays all three fields, and has a little bit of pop. He’s a quality player. He’s no superstar, but then he wouldn’t be getting swapped for Breslw if he was. A lot of folks in AZ underrate him because they get to watch an OF of Parra/Young/Upton every night. Well, there a plenty of OFers starting everyday that don’t crack that OF.
He’s got speed, an accurate slightly above average throwing arm, plays all three fields, and has a little bit of pop. He’s a quality player. He’s no superstar, but then he wouldn’t be getting swapped for Breslw if he was. A lot of folks in AZ underrate him because they get to watch an OF of Parra/Young/Upton every night. Well, there a plenty of OFers starting everyday that don’t crack that OF.
You’d rather have Parker in your rotation right now than Cahill? Parker has health issues, Cahill doesnt.
Well seeing as the only knock on Darvish is that he might bomb in MLB, he kind of is a short-term tradeable piece. Buying a player like that could be high-risk/high-reward in terms of a flip.
i’ve turned that into my mindset as a mets fan in the post reyes era. sign anyone who will take a 1 year deal and could be traded at the deadline regardless of whether it makes sense for the club (ie- oswalt, kuroda, marquis, vazquez, a bunch of 2nd tier closers….even throw beltran in center a couple days a week…sure you get awful defense for a couple months but id take that for another wheeler at the deadline)
I agree with the positive things you said about him. The main problem with what we saw from him was a total inability to recognize pitches, and knowlege of the strike zone. i hope for his sake it changes. I will be rooting for him. He needs to lay off high pitches.
There’s quite a few starting LF that would supplant Gerardo Parra.
His eye will almost certainly get better once he starts seeing pitches on a daily basis and not one game every 4-7 days.
Well, it cant get much worse. He Kd 28 times out of 100 PAs. Most of his minor league success came in crazy hitters parks.
There is a point of diminishing returns on the value you receive from scouts, I mean that many scouts is several hundred, they’ll have differing opinions, lobbying for different players, providing so much information that much of it will just get ignored, and even if they can go around scouting every player the As can only draft and sign a handful of them.
That is a valid point and scouts do lobby against each other.
Maybe a few scouts, some good development people (personal coach for everybody!), better resources and scouting in Latin America?
Didn’t appear to me that Parker had health issues last year.