8:27pm: Ortiz said tonight that he hadn't heard about an increase to Boston's two-year offer, according to Rob Bradford of WEEI. Ortiz officially accepted arbitration, though the two sides could still work out a multiyear agreement.
7:22pm: With tonight's arbitration deadline looming, the Red Sox have boosted their two-year contract offer to David Ortiz, according to Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com. McAdam says the new offer increases the $18MM figure the Sox previously proposed, but still falls slightly short of $20MM, meaning Ortiz is unlikely to accept it.
With numerous reports indicating Ortiz has decided to accept Boston's offer of arbitration, the 36-year-old will be in line for a raise over last year's $12.5MM salary on a one-year deal. If Ortiz accepts arb, the Sox would be less likely to continue pursuing a multiyear deal, a source tells McAdam.
Other Red Sox notes:
- If the Sox are paying Ortiz upwards of $14-15MM next season, it's less likely they'll spend on a closer or outfielder, tweets ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.
- Boston is close to signing Jesse Carlson to a minor league deal with a Spring Training invite, tweets McAdam.
Red Sox were dumb to offer the arbitration.
how so?
Should have known the arbitration amount on a one year deal would be a tempting deal for Ortiz. Obviously they don’t really want to pay him 14 million next season.
I wouldn’t mind having the possibility of either signing DH coming off a .953 OPS season to short-term deal or 2 high draft picks for my club.
20 Mill not good enough for Ortiz? Greed at its finest.
Why take 20 for 2 years when you can get 14 for 1 year
Because you will be 37 years old going into 2013 and an increasing injury risk. Or because you don’t want the risk of getting stuck taking a $5M contract to be Houston’s first-ever DH in 2013 if the Red Sox have no interest in you after this season. Or maybe because the $84M you’ve made in your career gives you more flexibility not to sign somewhere solely for the money. There are lots of reasons.
And why would he? How is it greed? When someone offers you 18 mil (it was SHORT of 20 million) for 2 years or 16 mil for one, which would you take?
Need I remind you that he posted an OPS of .953? How well did Carl Crawford do and how much was he paid?
The Red Sox aren’t the Rays, and even if they were, why would any reasonable person take that much of a hit on salary? Look at Ortiz’s stats and then look at how much he’s been paid over the years. Tell me how much he should settle for — a guy who rarely posted an OPS under .800 in his career. Sure, his value takes a hit for not having a position but does that mean he should be completely complicit with regards to what salary he should take? No. (it’s not like the Red Sox are short on cash either)
they like to pretend though!
I don’t blame them. I like to pretend that I have these kind of offers too…
One mistake doesn’t mean you have to make another. If anything, it should have taught them not to do this.
They aren’t signing Ortiz to a 7 year contract here.
He was the best DH in 2011 and posted 4+ WAR. He was one of the few Red Sox players who did their part this season. Who is going to replace all that offense? Who else can fill in that .953 OPS?
He has produced in a Red Sox uniform for years. (unlike Crawford) His age is a concern but this is a short term contract we are talking about.
At any rate, the question is still whether the OP would take 2 years of 18 mil over a 1 year of around 16 mil. (He is definitely getting a raise)
Logically, this is not greed but just common sense.
You’re right, it is common sense to take the deal where you make more money.
But saying that they should over pay him by using the Carl Crawford example doesn’t make it right. You pay him what he’s worth on the market. They made a mistake with Crawford (and with Lackey, Renteria, Lugo, Drew, etc.). They made mistakes with Varitek (like ever giving him a “C” to begin with & keeping him way too long).
Point taken.
But again, I stress Crawford because the Red Sox have bigger problems than David Ortiz. I just don’t see why so many Sox fans are against him after he posted pretty great numbers. You’re right, the Sox should evaluate Ortiz’s worth carefully but what are the risks here?
The OP called him greedy as if he was asking for a 7 year contract. He is actually being short changed here because of the options he has.
I mean, if fans are against re-signing a guy who did so well (for basically his whole career with the Sox) on a reasonable short term contract, then they must not want to sign any other FA because Ortiz is probably the best FA in terms of reward over risk.
Point taken.
But again, I stress Crawford because the Red Sox have bigger problems than David Ortiz. I just don’t see why so many Sox fans are against him after he posted pretty great numbers. You’re right, the Sox should evaluate Ortiz’s worth carefully but what are the risks here?
The OP called him greedy as if he was asking for a 7 year contract. He is actually being short changed here because of the options he has.
I mean, if fans are against re-signing a guy who did so well (for basically his whole career with the Sox) on a reasonable short term contract, then they must not want to sign any other FA because Ortiz is probably the best FA in terms of reward over risk.
Should have just worked out a deal, no arb. Too much money for one year.
Boston offers arbitration to most people even with a fringe chance of having interest on the market and being signed.. Look no further than Varitek 3 years ago when he refused at 10m figure.. One reason they continue to maintain a superb farm system and always have so many good picks.
Not so sure still that they figured Ortiz would accept, but someone out there would take him, even a 2nd round pick with a team and a protected pick made sense over someone like Toronto that was a pipe dream, but a 2nd tier team, O’s for example was a chance.
“One reason they continue to maintain a superb farm system”.
You sure are kidding, right? Red Sox were ranked 17th last season, and it doesn’t seem they are going to get much higher.
ahhh.. Why do some always choose to forget that ranking was ***AFTER*** they gave up Anthony Rhizzo, Ray Fuentes and of course… Casey Kelly in the Gonzalez deal??? Never mind they generally are top 10 and to begin 2012 will most likely move up 4-5 places AGAIN..
sox bashers never change.
“Red Sox were ranked 17th last season, and it doesn’t seem they are going to get much higher.”
First part true, second part false.
Just about every expert out there ranked the Sox as having a top five draft last year. A good draft can drastically alter a team’s farm ranking very quickly (Blue Jays have gone from bottom five to top five in a matter of a couple seasons). Additionally, as noted, they’d just raided their farm for Gonzalez, giving up two guys who ranked in that ranking’s top 100, leaving them without anyone in the top 50 (Since then, Ranaudo has moved to from 67 to 37) on top of an extremely strong draft.
The Sox should be at least top fifteen next year and they’re a long shot for just squeezing into the top ten. Multiple teams ahead of them have seen backslides in their farm and made big trades or promoted guys who will no longer qualify for farm system rankings.
lol who else wants Ortiz at that price? Ortiz better take it or hes not gonna have a team to play for.
He can not accept their offer and go to arbitration and get $15 million or more…
Once he heard comments from Duquette about not wanting a one dimensional player in his lineup, and Showalter saying that their DH spot will be used to give rest to an everyday player who actually CAN field, Ortíz went on to say to hispanoamerican media that he was considering accepting arbitration in case he and Bosox couldn’t reach an agreement.
Looks like this will be an uneventful offseason for the Sox.
Im so sick of this yearly “will david ortiz be back” discussion.. 14 milliion is way too much but they had to offer arb. so they would get a draft pick back if someone signed him
It was a big risk, since their own 2 year offer was laughable compared to the option of getting 14 mil by taking the Arb.
And this is exactly why I despise the Boston Red Sox. No loyalty towards their players. Boggs, Clemens, Damon, Papelbon, and now Ortiz. Staples of their organization. Leaders that filled the stadium and played big-time. And yet were all discarded. And you wonder why there are so many more “Yankee Fans” Because you have no Loyalty and deserve for your free agents to get every penny possible. Especially since your team never rewards them and discard them like yesterdays trash even thought they were a HUGE part of finally winning not one but TWO World Series Championships! How do you like those apples! smh in disgust!
“And you wonder why there are so many more “Yankee Fans” Because you have no Loyalty and deserve for your free agents to get every penny possible.”
Do Bernie Williams and Joe Torre ring any bells?
Oh you mean the same Bernie Williams who didn’t leave the team because they weren’t willing to offer him a contract, rather the one who didn’t want to play because he knew he didn’t have the skills to play everyday. The Yankees told him he wouldn’t play everyday and would be the #4/5 outfielder and they would pay him accordingly. Being loyal isn’t about overpaying, it’s about being respectful and not taking advantage of someone. They were willing to pay him FAIR MARKET VALUE, he chose to out price himself like Damon, who ultimately got what people expected when he signed with Detroit.
Now you mentioned Torre, same situation, personalities started to clash. And the Yankees already had made him the highest paid manager by several millions. They approached his negotiations as they had his previous contracts. But with a change in power coming with George Steinbrenner relinquishing power to his kids, he wanted more security. The Yankees offered him a fair contract he chose to not want to take it. Was i t a messy divorce yes, but they DIDN’T undervalue him. He actually worked for several Million less to manage the Dodgers when he realized he couldn’t get more.
The Yankees have always been know to take care of their players. And are loyal to them. Hank jumped the gun by giving in to A-Rod in re-signing him. But aside from over-paying Jeter this year as a sign of gratitude for his contributions for 5 Championships, no one can say that the Yankees are a team that tries to Re-Establish the market. Rather they’ll pay you fair market value. Diff. is yes they have deeper pockets and that allows them the opportunity to sign one more “star” player but look at their roster how many home grown talents compared to other championship teams? And of those players on their team, that they signed as FA, how many can you say that “oh the Yankees over-payed” In the past decade one player, Rafael Soriano! All the other players when signed were considered good, fair market signings Burnett included.
But as was said you mentioned two players which their situations had diff. circumstances that led to their split, but the difference is these players that they split with, from Clemens, Boggs, Damen, Pappelbon, Ortiz, Derek Lowe, Pedro Martinez, Curt Shilling who still wanted to pitch, Mo Vaughn, I won’t include Manny to the list he did it to himself. And what did all those I mentioned have in common? They were all productive players after the Red Sox literally called them “washed out”. And then let’s not forget how they literally threw Francona under the bus. Just accept it, your teams not loyal and if and when the time comes their players deserve to ask for top dollar and not give a “home town discount” History speaks for itself. They’ll discard like yesterdays trash. I like Big Papi and he helps the Red Sox, but all team alliances aside, he should try to get every penny he can, because that’s all the teams doing when they’re telling you to take less money. It’s so they can line their own pockets. As the would say, “It’s business, Nothing Personal!”
stupid…Sox should have walked away from this guy…there is no way he will be worth it
unless he hits like he has every year of his boston career other than 2009
He wasn’t great in ’08, ’09, or ’10. He was either okay, terrible or mediocre. All three years he had a very hard time against left handed pitching.
good thing it’s gonna be 2012 and gonzalez remedied the lefty problem in 2011
out of curiosity, would you say alex gordon “wasn’t great” offensively last year? alex avila? paul konerko? justin upton? carlos gonzalez? that’s what a ~.380 wOBA looks like and that’s what david ortiz posted in 2010. in 2011, he matched adrian gonzalez
fret less. i didn’t want ortiz back, but he is an asset
“fret less. i didn’t want ortiz back, but he is an asse”
Now to just find a starter or 2 from amongst the “heap” to begin 2012.
Wouldn’t it be really nice if Doubront showed up at camp in tremendous shape and would be able to break ST as a 5-6 IP starter?
Edit:
The closer/more it looks like Wilson will head to Miami, the more it looks like Volstad just could get non tendered or flat out dumped off to somebody for like nothing.
I think Volstad would have about as much success in the AL as a Wandy Rodriquez, IOW, a 5th starter type and as a Fish Fan would like to see Cherrington throw a pile of non prospects Beinfests way for him and pay whatever kind of raise Chris would get over around 500k.
He throws around 90-91, has a pretty good curve that is what gets him in trouble when he can’t locate it and a changeup IMO not the best, but 2 of his pitches when they are “on” he is pretty good.
Sounds like a righty version of Andrew Miller huh?
And Vladimir Guerrero hit .300/.345/.496 with 29 home runs & 119 RBI in 2010. He then proceeded to hit .290/.317/.416 with 13 home runs & 63 RBI the next year.
I don’t think this is this the end of the world as long as it’s only for one year. I also don’t believe Ortiz will hit lefties next year like he did this year. I’m just tried of being told how Ortiz is “the best DH ever”, “the best clutch hitter ever”, “a legend”, “a leader” and the like while people act like this team can’t survive without him. He hasn’t been clutch in years. Most of the better hitters can actually play a position. Everyone from that 2004 team is part of history. He’s obviously not a leader or else he wouldn’t have interrupted a press conference to whine about an RBI. He wouldn’t continually whine to the media when he doesn’t get exactly what he wants. He’d leg out ground balls & fly balls. I like Ortiz, I’m just ready to move on from him.
vladimir guerrero is 107 years old, but i know what you’re saying. this was not my plan A (or B) either
“vladimir guerrero is 107 years old”
LOL. He have some Satchell Paige issues with him regarding age? (kidding)
vladimir guerrero is 107 years old, but i know what you’re saying. this was not my plan A (or B) either
And Vladimir Guerrero hit .300/.345/.496 with 29 home runs & 119 RBI in 2010. He then proceeded to hit .290/.317/.416 with 13 home runs & 63 RBI the next year.
I don’t think this is this the end of the world as long as it’s only for one year. I also don’t believe Ortiz will hit lefties next year like he did this year. I’m just tried of being told how Ortiz is “the best DH ever”, “the best clutch hitter ever”, “a legend”, “a leader” and the like while people act like this team can’t survive without him. He hasn’t been clutch in years. Most of the better hitters can actually play a position. Everyone from that 2004 team is part of history. He’s obviously not a leader or else he wouldn’t have interrupted a press conference to whine about an RBI. He wouldn’t continually whine to the media when he doesn’t get exactly what he wants. He’d leg out ground balls & fly balls. I like Ortiz, I’m just ready to move on from him.
Even if he puts up a superb season, the sox played it backwards compared to what they did with Beltré, which was to present him an offer and say to him “take it or leave it”, once he refused, the Bosox acquired Adrián for next to nothing (the players they gave up where nowhere ready to play in the majors in 2-3 years, sure, Rizzo played with the Padres and stunk).
IF they had not offered arbitration, then he would be pressed to sign for whatever the sox offered him or to risk walking away and see how the sox acquire a one year solution, either a ‘rental’ player via trade (somebody soon to be free agent), or sign a player who can play third to a one year deal (Aramis for one year? Vlad just to fill a spot?) and move Youkilis to DH to give him rest for 2012, or even fill the spot with anybody, knowing that Fenway pads stats anywhere from 0.030 to 0.050 average points (even up to 0.070 in some cases like in Ortíz whom outside Fenway since signing with the sox bats 0.260 and 0.310 at Fenway).
very dumb to offer arbitration..now with hgh testing his stats will go down..there is no other team in market for big papi..bosox should not be upset if ortiz takes arbitration which he should..bosox are the idiots for offering to him
Guy tested for an un-named substance on a list from the earlier part of the decade. Their is still no absolute truth he tested for anything imparticular, if anything Ortiz’s trimmed more flexible look speaks less of HGH.
2/22 + incentives?
Totally. If Magglio Ordonez got $10M in 2011, Ortiz definitely deserves more than $20M for 2 years. But given his age and positional concerns, I wouldn’t go more than $25/2. But the lowball offer is probably due to the Red Sox wanting him to take arbitration — and it might be smart to go year-to-year at this stage of his career, especially with a new GM and manager. And whatever he gets in arbitration this year, he deserves…
Here’s my major concern with giving Ortiz a 2 year deal…
In 2013, the Astros move to the AL triggering more interleague play. Ortiz and the Red Sox had a multitude of problems over those couple weeks about having to sit Ortiz at NL parks. If they give him that 2nd year, the problems are only going to worsen as they will have no place to play Ortiz in even MORE games. It’s why I’ve been hammering the point home to trade for Prado to play as a 3B/DH which allows the Red Sox to swing Youk, Gonzo and Prado at the 1B/3B/DH positions. Come 2013, the AL teams with better position flexibility are going to be the ones who can transition easier into this scheduling change.
If Ortiz does in fact come back to Boston I hope it is through him accepting arbitration allowing the Sox to better situate themselves for the 2013 season.
I have no problem with Boston spending mainly on Ortiz rather than a closer or outfielder. I wouldn’t mind seeing them explore the trade route for a closer like Bailey, as long as the price isn’t prohibitive, and with Ortiz’s bat still there, they just need someone, right handed, who can field RF adequately. And besides I would rather see Boston simply fill out the bullpen with a few cheaper arms, and let Jenks/Bard fight it out for the closer role. As long as they can also find room to get another starter, that sounds fine with me. I never expected this to be a mindblowing offseason, it was clear after spending last year that that wasn’t in the cards. Besides, they have all the ingredients for a World Series at the tips of their fingers. Just a few alterations, some team spirit, and they should be very much in the hunt.
If the Sox are indeed going to be in the market for a closer or another OF I think that might blow the lid on this below luxury tax theory. Time will tell though.
And this is exactly why I despise the Boston Red Sox. All you nay sayers have NO LOYALTY
towards their players. Boggs, Clemens, Damon, Papelbon, and now Ortiz.
Staples of their organization. Leaders that filled the stadium and
played big-time. And yet were all discarded. And you wonder why there
are so many more “Yankee Fans” Because you have no Loyalty and deserve
for your free agents to get every penny possible. Especially since your
team never rewards them and discard them like yesterdays trash even
thought they were a HUGE part of finally winning not one but TWO World
Series Championships! How do you like those apples! smh in disgust!
Clemens was let go for all the right reasons in retrospect. Duquette felt he was hitting his decline years, which it turns out was probably true based on his steroid use prolonging his career.
Damon left over peanuts. Damon’s representation told them five years or he goes elsewhere, they said no to a fifth year and he went to the Yanks…for four years.
The Sox never said they had no interest in Papelbon, they said it was way too early in the offseason for them to make a major commitment like the one he was seeking. Either way, the Phillies drastically overpaid for him.
Ortiz is being guaranteed at least $14 million in a market where his position averages about $5-6 million. Huge disrespect, right.
Boggs, well, I was like eight when that went down, so I haven’t the foggiest what happened with that one, so hey, maybe they lowballed him.
That all said, any competent GM will play hardball with a player nearing the end. For your talk of the Yanks, is your memory so short that you don’t remember the Yankees’ negotiations with Jeter just last year?
Damon was replaced by Coco and then Ellsbury …. major mistake , eh , genius