Here are a few odd items of note as Tuesday becomes Wednesday …
- Executives from three teams believe Johnny Damon has altered his patient plate approach in his quest to collect 3,000 career hits, writes Joel Sherman of the New York Post. Damon is believed to be intent on reaching 3K to increase his odds of reaching the Hall of Fame, which is turning off potential suitors, according to Sherman. The outfielder/DH denies this.
- Outfielder Jose Guillen, who did not play last season, wants to return in 2012, according to Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportesLosAngeles.com (Spanish link). Guillen, 35, last appeared in the Majors in 2010 with the Giants.
- The one-year, $11MM contract the Nationals gave to Edwin Jackson seems more advantageous under the new CBA than it did at first glance, writes Amanda Comak of the Washington Times.
- If the Mets are not in better financial shape by next offseason, Commissioner Bud Selig must take action, opines Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com. Doing so would be difficult for Selig, writes Rosenthal, as Wilpon is a long-tenured and well-respected owner.
- For a look at how each first-year GM fared this offseason, check out this writeup by John Schlegel of MLB.com.
I respect everyone’s choice, but even if Damon gets to 3000 hits, I still don’t think he should be a HOFer.
I always considered certain numbers automatic into the hall of fame.
3000 hits
500 home runs
300 wins
As long as you’re clean and reach those numbers then you’re a hall of fame. If you don’t, then your other numbers must be hall of fame worthy.
“Damon, historically a disciplined hitter, swung at 31.3 percent of pitches out of the strike zone. That was, by far, his worst mark for the 10 years Fangraphs has tracked the stat and marked the third straight year he incurred a significant increase. There is a belief he is trying to raise his hit totals to draw closer to 3,000 and it is coming at the expense of those tough, patient at-bats.”
Or maybe he’s just getting older? The same could be said about Albert Pujols and I don’t think he’s anywhere near close to 3k hits.
Damon is an interesting case, as he was more an accumulator of stats than a truly GREAT player. He never even eclipsed 5 WAR in a season for his career. If I had a vote, I wouldn’t give Damon the nod. You have to pass over the very good players to get to the great ones.
I agree…Damon is definitely not even close to HOF in my eyes. I would never even think to debate whether he’s a HOF or not, unless someone brought it up, because I just don’t even consider him in that category.
He’s a very consistent player however, and was able to stay healthy throughout his career. So overall, he’s had a very good and productive career, but he was never really dominant at any time.
I think the cats out the bag. There are enough HOF’s in that don’t have the same distinctions as the “all-time greats and iconic” types.
If Damon hits 3,000 then what separates him from Yount or Biggio?
Also, from 1996 (his first full season) to present he’s …
3rd in hits and runs scored behind Arod and Jeter.
4th in SB behind Pierre, Ichiro and Crawford.
I know counting stats are more a factor of longevity but longevity + production + key milestones should probably = HOF.
Something I didn’t notice is that the article is from the NY Post. I don’t mind the Post, Boston Herald or TMZ. Just sayin’.
So let me ask you this, if he finished with 2999 hits exactly, he is not a HOFer, but if he finished with 3000 hits exactly, he is a HOFer?
He’s not a HOF’er either way.
I’ve said that from my very first post
You may not but their are only 28 players in the history of baseball that have been able to do it. In my opionion that puts anyone who hits 3000 in. Have we come so far sabermetrically that hitting is no longer a top stat.
Well there’s more to it than just total hits. There are only 5 players in the history of baseball that have 800 stolen bases and 1 of them is not in the HOF and might never make it (Tim Raines).
Why should Damon be in the hall but not Tim Raines? Raines might not have the greatest resume, but I believe he’s had a much better career than Damon.
Raines SHOULD be in the HOF but just because he isn’t doesn’t have anything to do with Damon. That’s like saying Lee Smith isn’t in the HOF so why should player “x”.
There’s only 36 players in the history of baseball that have been able to get 2885 hits. By your logic doesn’t that mean he should be in if he gets there?
Using arbitrary milestones as the deciding factor of whether or not a player gets in is ridiculous.
Agreed, borderline at best.
Rosenthal’s article has an interesting bit at the end, where he says it would be hard on Selig to take over day to day ops of the Mets, like MLB did with the Dodgers. But by getting Sandy Alderson in there as GM, Selig already has day to day operations of the Mets….. thought Ken would catch that one.
Call me crazy but would a contending team really want to sign a player who’s sole goal is the HOF? Someone who’s willing to reach statistical goals at the risk of the team reaching the playoffs.
Just saying the goals might be mutually exclusive.
but if his goal is to get more hits, isn’t that a good thing?
The team would rather have 140 hits and 70 walks. Damon would rather have 150 hits and 50 walks. At least that’s the argument. I dunno, looking at his stats they just seem to be representative of someone winding down their career.
yah I agree with that.
That example is pretty bad. You have to take into account the situation. Are there RISP? Are these hits singles or extra bases? Also, it depends on your line up. If you already have players with high OBP in your 1st and 2nd spot, having a better hitter on your 3rd spot would be much better than another OBP guy. It also gives you flexibility in where to put slot him.
Eh, I guess my point is that when he played for the Sox he whined that he sacrificed getting hits because he was batting leadoff and needed to make sure the team saw more pitches. Just saying… would you want a good hitter who wants to make history or an above average hitter who wants his team to win no matter the personal cost.
I’d prefer the good hitter who wants his team to win no matter the personal cost, but there doesn’t seem to be too many of those guys left.
Heck the Rays retired Bogg’s jersey!
” would a contending team really want to sign a player who’s sole goal is the HOF?”
No different than Boras’s (and maybe another agency or 2) sole goal to get the last nickel he can, even if involves lying through his teeth to get it and any other means, ethical or not.
So is it really different? Or even different that Pudge Rodriquez when he was with the Tigers calling for FB so he could throw better vs base stealers and pad his stats, thereby pro long his career??
Not really.
What about Wade Boggs?
That example is kind of odd. Isn’t it a mutually beneficial situation if Irod thwarts would be SB attempts? Doesn’t that help his team?
I think their off base with this one, Damon is a team player. He just has to find a team that just wants a DH, which may be hard to do. Johnny is still a productive hitter, so I would hope he gets his chance at 3000. I still think he was a perfect fit for the Rays.
Check out Verlander’s interview on the MLB website on 2/07/02. He actually says his only goal is the HOF.
I think there’s a few contending teams that would like to sign him.
Wilpon is a well-respected owner? This is news to me.
Wilpon thinks his own team stinks. Is he respected around the league? Maybe but I don’t think too many players enjoyed his SI article.
Sorry, to you. Android is bad today.
It is such a shame that Wilpon is allowed to keep the team. The Mets are a New YOrk team for goodness sakes, how can they field a minor league team. I know it wont happen but all Mets fans should turn their backs on the team, stay home, and wait for Selig to do his job and sell the team. A minority owner just isnt going to cut it. If the Wilpons had a managable debt, a good team would make them money and help them out of the hole. Dont talk payroll either, these contracts were signed before Madoff and are so bad they cant be shed. Such a joke
ooh just because they’re a new York team means that they’re better than everyone else
Did he say they should be better than everyone else? That was far from his point.
I heard Alderson putting a positive spin on the Mets yesterday, that’s his job. None of their players had career years last year and many injured lik Ike, Wright, Johan, and Bay. They need those 4 to have good years to be respectable. I don’t see that happening.
Win- This is to the thread not specifically ( my phone is being difficult,sorry) but Damon is a case like Barry Larkin. He is not the best player by a long shot but has been consistent for a long time. I am naturally a Red Sox fan but really hoped the Reds would sign him to show Drew Stubbs how to hit lead off.
Trust me that I’m not trying to lead the Damon for the HOF committee. However, I do buy some of your arguments.
Biggio is in the HOF the same reason why Damon probably should be….because of cumulative stats.
Biggio in 19 1/2 seasons/12,500 + PA
.281/.363/.433 w/ 291 hrs and 414 SB.
He absolutely should get credit doing that mostly as a C/2B.
Defensively, his GG mean as much as Jeter’s. The years he won (1994-1997) he had an average UZR of +3 which is completely thrown out of whack by 1 spectacular year with a UZR of +19. The other 3 years he won the GG with a UZR of -7, -2 and +2. Not exactly Ozzie Smith-ish.
When you compare him vs other 2b in that 4 year span he was far from the best in terms of average UZR as his average of +3 UZR was far and away nothing compared to Lemke (+12.5), Lansing (+7), Kent (+6.5), Alfonszo (+6.5) and Sandberg (+6).
As for Yount…..so what he has two MVP’s? What does that really mean overall? There are a couple of players with multiple MVP’s that haven’t sniffed the HOF (Newhouser, JuanGon, Dale Murphy)..However, Yount is in the HOF because of his STATS, which on average, are not that impressive but viewed in total made him HOF worthy.
If we were to view Robin Yount and Biggio in terms of their averages then what makes them more deserving than Damon other than the fact that they reached those 3,000 milestones?
Yount-285/.342/.430 w/ 251/271 HR/SB
Biggio-281/.363/.433 w/ 291/414 HR/SB
Damon-286/.353/.435 w/ 231/404 HR/SB
Also, the fact that Damon has “only” had 10,563 PA compared to Biggio’s 12,503 PA and Yount’s 12,249 means his total stats should be similar to there’s if not better if he can stay healthy and at least be the hitter he was last year.
Right or wrong, HOF candidacy has been set on precedent. I don’t see how you let 10 guys in with similar situations and not let him in if he reaches 3,000 hits regardless of how he got there.
Biggio, Speaker, Bonds, Collins, Cobb and Henderson. Those are the ONLY players in history with 3,000+ hits, 400+ SB and 1,800 + runs. Damon needs 277 hits and 157 runs to join a very exclusive club.
Larkin and Damon should not be compared at all. Larkin did it at a more premium position. He was a 12 time all star and 9 time silver slugger, and also on multiple MVP ballots including 1 MVP award in 1995.
I’m just listing the possible scenarios that could happen and why always assuming getting a BB is better than a hit is flawed thinking.
As for your last statement, I don’t consider Damon to be a bad player but there are definitely better players than him. So I’ll worry if he’s your everyday lead-off. I would consider him to be a 7th-8th guy at this point.
Read what I said. I didn’t compare Larkin and Damon, I pointed out something they have in common. Example:
Me and you= men=something in common
Baseball and football= Both sports but vastly differ=comparison
But Larkin is one of the best SS of all time. Damon is Not one of the best OF of all time. Larkin should have been in first ballot. The only SS who I can think of off the top of my head who was better than Larkin in the early part of his career was Ripken.
What was Yount great at again? Starting his career at age 18 and playing 20 years.
As for Biggio, he had a 8 total years of an .800 or better OPS. Damon had 7 years w/ an OPS over .800 and one year w/ a .799.
Bottom line is, it’s based off of precedent and regardless of how you feel it’s not going to change. If he makes 3,000 hits, he’s in. That was my point.