Free agent righty Roy Oswalt, his wife Nicole, and his agent Bob Garber met with Rangers GM Jon Daniels and CEO and president Nolan Ryan for an exploratory lunch meeting in Arlington yesterday, reported Richard Durrett of ESPNDallas.com. The latest on Oswalt:
- Red Sox GM Ben Cherington won't rule out adding a starter before Spring Training, but he says it's unlikely at this point, Alex Speier of WEEI.com tweets. "I wouldn't expect any major changes between now and the report date," the GM said.
- The Red Sox are still talking to free agent pitchers, including Oswalt and Edwin Jackson, Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald reports.
- The Red Sox appear to be waiting for Jackson or Oswalt to say yes to the offers they've extended, ESPN.com's Buster Olney tweets.
- The Red Sox still have a great chance of signing Oswalt, a Major League source tells Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com. However, this is the same source that told Edes on Friday that Oswalt would sign with the Cardinals soon, and that did not materialize.
- The Cardinals have not made Oswalt a financial offer anywhere close to what he considers sufficient, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Rosenthal reiterates that Oswalt seeks a one-year, $10MM deal. Rosenthal questions Oswalt's leverage, if he remains adamant about pitching for two teams with full rotations in the Cardinals and Rangers.
1 year at 10 million is a pretty good deal for Oswalt. I’m surprised no one’s pulled the trigger on this one. He’s still a good pitcher with a few good seasons left in him I’d say.
This may be true, but he’s not worth $10MM for the Rangers or Cardinals because they don’t necessarily need him. If he wants to be that picky, he’s going to have to come down on his price. Otherwise he can go to Boston for $10MM.
There are plenty of teams who would certainly pull the trigger at 1 year/$10 million. Unfortunately, neither the Cardinals nor the Rangers are among them, and those are the only two teams he is apparently considering.
Oswalt has lost all the leverage he had when he eliminated everyone for Texas and Cards. They would just say here is 2M take it or leave it, because they have full rotations. Oswalt isn’t a pitcher that can demand anything with his back history and his 2011 season was mediocre at best. It should be interesting to see if he changes his mind about other teams. If not, he pays the price and not the teams, because he is dreaming if he will get 10M. lol.
I agree with most of your statement, but his 2011 season being “mediocre at best” is completly false.
His ERA+ was 105. Is that great? No, but it is better than average. Look at the stats – it is better than Edwin Jackson, and equal to Chris Carpenter.
He had a 1.7 WAR in a season in which he missed a significant amount of time due to injury. A full season, and he is 2+ WAR, which is worth 8-10 million on the open market in most years.
With the Rangers, he has no leverage, as their rotation is full of young, quality pitchers. With the Cardinals, he has some leverage, as he is a significant upgrade over Westbrook, but his leverage won’t force them up to his current demand.
I see 1 year, $5-7 million as reasonable for the Cardinals to offer him. The increased wins over throwing Westbrook every five days is worth that kind of money. $10 million? Less so, and no reason to offer it if he’s not seriously considering other teams.
Nice
although your right about what you said in this post, but to compare his stats to other pitchers who played a full season is over doing it alittle. oswalt only had 23 starts and 139 innings pitched last year, couple times where he came out during a game because of his back. he was out for like 3 weeks from like the 3rd week of april to the 2nd week to the beginning of the 3rd week of may. then from june 23rd to august 7th. so its alittle unfair to compare his stats to those of edwin jackson and chris carpenter when they played in more games then him. but i do agree he would be a better SP over westbrook.
That’s actually why his WAR was low. Had he continued that performance over a full season, he would have had a WAR near Carpenter’s 3.7 or Jackson’s 3.1 (according to BR).
My point was mainly that “mediocre at best” is false. If Oswalt had a mediocre season when healthy, Carpenter and Jackson’s seasons were mediocre as well.
I mostly agree with your point, but the beauty of WAR is that it can help to account for things like lack of starts, and honestly, if a player can only pitch 140 innings, even if they’re very effective, it’s somewhat of a fair assessment to say they had a mediocre year.
Of course it’s also fair to say they pitched an above average 140 innings.
Isn’t an ERA+ of 100 considered average?
Not saying that I agree with cyberboo, and I actually think Oswalt is a solid #2 at this point when healthy.
He already turned down that contract from Detroit.
It’s more than fair and he had plenty of suitors willing to give him the money… just not the ones he wanted.
Still no sign that the Rangers actually made an offer I guess. I wonder if it is a race between the Cards and Rangers to unload some salary and/or open up a roster spot before they take the plunge on Oswalt?
Gee, maybe if he hadn’t narrowed down his list of worthy teams to 2 teams that don’t necessarily need pitching, he might have more leverage for the contract he wants.
File this one under “How not to negotiate”
People are scared of the back problem and honestly I think he’s worth the risk. He’s a proven pitcher and when he’s on he’s got Ace type stuff. It’s a good investment if you want to win now. I think the rangers nab him and move Matt Harrison to the pen
Yeah he wants 90 games against the soft nl central, put up numbers that look good, and then trick a team into giving him big money
Oswalt trying to “Trick Someone”? Ha!
How is Roy going to trick someone? The same way Boras tricked Ilitch? Or Guthrie is trying to get over 10 million from arbitration? Or when the Orioles put out propaganda stating they are well aware of the fact that Boras uses other teams for leverage and the Orioles “WILL NOT” be used!
Spare Me
Actually, considering he’s pitched most his career in Houston and the Astros and Cardinals had a very good (and very respectable) rivalry. It’s not shocking that the Astros players that are still active from their good years would prefer to play for a team they had a healthy respect (and probably dislike as well) for, since the Cardinals still have a roster that can win.
And the Rangers are closer to home and have a roster that can win as well, even though it’ll be in the tougher and less familiar AL.My guess is he’s more likely to sign another one-year deal or retire after this year, should be sign a one-year deal with either Texas or St. Louis.
The soft NL Central???? Ummmm . . . NLCS . . . Milwaukee vs. eventual champ St. Louis??? Last I checked, both of those teams were from the “soft” NL Central.
Really wish he would be open to coming to the Red Sox. Oswalt is still a solid pitcher when healthy. He may not be ace like anymore but he’s certainly an above average starter.
He wants to use this one year as leverage for next contract…prove he’s healthy….he doesn’t want to go to the AL EAST and potentially get lit up when pursuing another deal…
It’s more than that. He wants to prove he’s healthy and set himself up well next offseason, but he also wants to do it while being close to home. Detroit apparently offered him the contract terms he wanted, and they should easily win that division and contend for the World Series, but he turned them down. He wants to have his cake and eat it too.
I honestly think Oswalt is one of those pitchers who isn’t in the least bit worried about potentially getting lit up. Either he is healthy or he isn’t. IF (and that is a very big if) he can stay healthy enough to get in 25-30 starts, he’ll be worth every penny of $10MM no matter where he plays because he really is that good.
I was surprised he turned down 1yr/$10MM from Detroit. Once he turned that down though, I began suspecting he would retire. I think one of the biggest reasons he has such a short list of teams he is willing to play for is because of the “enjoy playing” factor. He’s been around a long time. It’s not unreasonable for him to decide to play on his own terms now or not at all.
Yeah, everything everyone on here has said is completely right. People are scared of the back problem, and the two teams he seems to be considering aren’t in desperate need of pitching. I think it’s just who can get the funds/spot to sign him first. I’m willing to bet that if he isn’t picked up by the Cards or Rangers within the week, he goes to Boston for one at $10.
I’ve lost interest in the guy. The Red Sox don’t really need another fragile starting pitcher… especially not for $10 million.
I feel like im in the minority but I would much rather have Jackson on a 1 yr 8-10mil contract over oswalt. Sox need someone who is durable and can give us 200 innings!
I don’t think Jackson will come as cheap as Oswalt. And Oswalt started 30+ games for 7 seasons in a row prior to 2011.
Well at least you had interest. The Orioles have done nothing to garner my interest. I really think Oriole management as well as ownership has done more to put Fannies in their front office than they have for their own stadium at OPACY. I just don’t see why the Rangers need Oswalt. Old’ Roy should go to a team that really needs him; it would be good for baseball!
PS Matt Wieters should declare “Mutiny” and get the rest of the team to join him!
PPS If Duquette did the same thing for the Red Sox as he has for the Orioles, Red Sox fans would have him tried for Treason!
I guess Texas is closer to his home in St. Louis than Boston. Whether it’s 500 miles or 1700 miles, he’s not going to be able to step off his front porch in St. Louis and drive half an hour to the ballpark. This close to home crap is just that.
He’s from Mississippi?
His home isn’t in St. Louis. His home is in Mississippi. Both St. Louis and Dallas are near Mississippi. Boston is not. Detroit is closer to Mississippi than Boston is and he turned that down.
To be completely fair, he has a farm in Missouri, which is significantly closer to St. Louis than to Texas.
Plus (the average human) would take a 7 figure salary and Not give Two Bleeps where he worked!
Well he’s not the average person is he? He has options.
Apparently he doesn’t.
Well he’s not the average person is he? He has options.
Nolan Ryan was his boyhood idol. That’s where Texas comes in.
I thought Ryan loved Robin Ventura…
Like when Roger Clemens left Boston to be closer to his home in Texas, and signed with Toronto?
Cards should try their hardest to meet his price because Oswalt is a serious upgrade over Westbrook.
Rangers have no need for Oswalt as he is not a sure fire upgrade over anything they have and they already have to send a good starter to the bullpen. “Exploratory lunch” sounds like Oswalt and Ryan were just having a friendly get together. I’m guess Ryan said, “Nice to see you Roy, would you like to play for free? Otherwise we don’t have a place for you.”
He IS an upgrade over Westbrook, however we are prob talking a WAR of +2 over Westbrook. NOT worth 10MM in my book.
Actually, that’s fair market value, considering 1 WAR was worth roughly 5 MM last year.
anyone think it’s a bizarre coincidence that the 2 teams he wants to go to were the 2 teams that fought it out in the World Series?
In this case, it probably is coincidence.
The last couple of years, we’ve heard that he wanted to play for St. Louis, even before they made the World Series. The part of Mississippi that he’s from contains lots of Cardinals fans, and he owns a farm in southern Missouri.
When he originally came up into the majors, he talked about his idol Nolan Ryan, who wasn’t the principle owner of the Rangers then, but is now.
I think this is more the case of hometown team versus boyhood idol (St. Louis and Nolan Ryan), and those being his favored locations. World Series last year likely has nothing to do with it.
oh ok, thanks, I knew about the Missouri thing, I didn’t know that Nolan Ryan was his idol (rightfully so though)
There’s another team in Missouri (said the Red Sox fan)
a 7-16 won’t get him the contract he wants next year.
There’s another team in Missouri (said the Red Sox fan)
Nolan Ryan was my boyhood idol too for what its worth…lol
I saw him pitch for the Winter Haven mets a few times.. He had -0- clue where the ball was going then either, like he did when with early years with the Angels but was throwing very hard as a teenager.
nolan ryan was my boyhood idol even had his number in high school and college, can i sign with the rangers? all im asking is 3 years for 5 million lol.
nolan ryan was my boyhood idol even had his number in high school and college, can i sign with the rangers? all im asking is 3 years for 5 million lol.
He clearly thinks he’s both better and worth more than is proving to be the case. And unless he changes his demands, he may just end up riding the tractor all the way back to Mississippi.
After seeing the Phils are looking to deal Blanton, I’m still hopeful that they’re lurking in the background.
Good luck with that. (Being Ben Cherington) “Hmm Roy wants 1/10.. “Hey Scott.. it’s Ben. Did you hear Roy wants $7? I think we can increase our offer to Edwin from 1/5 to 1/7 to match that figure. You like? Great.”
and i can see scott going hey ben what your smoking is some good stuff, how about you send some my way and we can talk more lol. Fact is Jackson is saying he will take a 1 year deal, BUT he is going to want around 12 to 15 million. if the sox want him their gonna have to suck it up and give him what he wants.
I’m a fan of Oswalt, but if it’s going to take moving McClellan for next to nothing like a lot of talks have indicated, I’d have to let this one pass. If you remove McClellan from the pen, our most experienced piece becomes Romero…As talented as our young pen is, I just don’t know about that.
Kyle McClellan: 4 years service time
J.C. Romero: 11 years service time.
Only after McClellan leaves is Romero the most experienced?
Either of Lohse or Westbrook (or Oswalt for that matter) would also be more experienced than McClellan, though not in relief (not that McClellan wants to be a reliever either).
In the end, I’d rather have talent anyway. The Cardinals are a better team with Oswalt in the starting rotation than with McClellan in the pen.
I knew that Romero had more service time, I just meant that it would leave quite a gap between our one seasoned vet and the rest of our pen. I could’ve worded that a little better, I suppose.
Obviously, I was referring to those in actual relief roles. The difference between McClellan, Lohse, and Westbrook is that he has been labeled a reliever with starting potential and not a starter who may have to be pushed to the pen because of a NTC…and to my knowledge, he has never openly protested being placed in the pen.
That’s where the whole risk/reward principle comes in. With a healthy Oswalt, yes, the Cardinals are better. If Oswalt’s back flares up though, then we are out a key piece to our pen. I just don’t know how comfortable I’d be with pulling the trigger.
I’m much lower on McClellan. I think the biggest two pieces to the bullpen are Motte and Rzepcinski (yeah, I probably spelled it wrong – don’t care), and after that Lynn with the way he pitched in the playoffs.
Beyond those, Salas, Sanchez, McClellan, Boggs… all replaceable parts who look nearly identical. Which one is having a good day is the one being thrown out there. Given the Cards bullpen, I just don’t see McClellan as all that important, experienced or not.
If you want the truest measure of McClellan – look at last season when it mattered most (the post season). McClellan was left off the roster for two of the three rounds, and only pitched once in the NCLS.
There’s no doubt that Motte and Scrabble are two of the biggest pieces, but with that being said, I would hardly call Salas and Sanchez replaceable. Especially with Sanchez only being 22-years-old this past season and posting 35 Ks in only 30 innings of work. He has real potential. You could definitely tell a difference in our bullpen when he had his DL stint. Lynn has definitely been a pleasant surprise though.
It was also pretty evident towards the end of last season that McClellan’s arm wasn’t used to the wear it was subjected to. Prior to last season, the most innings he had touched was a hair over 75.
By replaceable parts, I mean that Salas = Sanchez = Boggs = McClellan. Are they better than some kid off the bench? Yes. But I don’t see one as better than the other on any given day. If instead of having five of the same pitcher, they had four (throwing Lynn into the mix), the Cardinals are not much worse. If instead of having Westbrook start every fifth day, they have Oswalt, they are significantly better.
If Oswalt’s injury flares up again, you still have Westbrook to put back in the rotation.
If the issue was Oswalt or Sanchez, or Salas, I may think differently. Let’s face it though, McClellan is gone after next year. He wants to be a starter, and the Cardinals have no room in the rotation for him. He is worth his salary now, but once team control ends, he’ll want more than the Cardinals can or should pay him.
Getting Oswalt in place of McClellan improves the present, even after injury risk is factored in, and McClellan is not part of the future. Flags fly forever – Oswalt increases the chance of winning this year. If the price of getting him is losing McClellan, oh well.
Go for it.
I still would have a hard time putting Boggs on the same level as McClellan, though. However, I completely get where you’re coming from. Like I said, I’m just a little apprehensive about Oswalt’s injury. I’m probably being somewhat sentimental with McClellan, too.
Completely agree with everything you said besides about Sanchez. He is not like any of the other guys. He has the best arm in the bullpen, now it’s a matter of putting it together.
It’s funny that those two “most experienced” relievers you mentioned are the two worst pitchers in our bullpen. Who cares about who is most experienced? They’ve all been pitching their whole lives (except Motte). They know how to do it. Being experienced but not good provides ZERO value.
If you’re trying to argue that Kyle McClellan has “ZERO value” then that’s absurd.
It’s funny that those two “most experienced” relievers you mentioned are the two worst pitchers in our bullpen. Who cares about who is most experienced? They’ve all been pitching their whole lives (except Motte). They know how to do it. Being experienced but not good provides ZERO value.
Sometimes, with the unsigned guys, you wonder if you are watching a game of musical chairs, and a few may end up without seats. Most of them are replaceable talents (like the aging DH contingent). But it seems to be moving upstream this year to better players. Even putting aside Kuroda’s one year deal with the Yankees, Jackson not seeing the numbers he wants, and obviously, neither is Oswalt. If Oswalt is serious and wants to pitch only for St. L and Texas, and only at his price, he may end up retired. The Red Sox might be a competitive fall back, but only if he’s willing and they still have an open slot and open dollars (we still don’t know what Bud is going to do, among other factors). As far as I’m concerned, he’s earned the right to be a picky as he wants, and if that results in spending a lot of time at home, then so be it.
It’s looking like Oswalt is wanting a one year shot at a ring. The speculation behind the money is largely speculation. Sometimes reports are taken for fact. It’ll be interesting to see if money is truly the deciding factor. Take money off the table, and that would also bring quite a few more teams into play that are also close to home. But what is “close to home” when you can charter a private jet? I’m guessing for the right price, the Astros, Royals, and even the White Sox are in play.
He wants to do what Beltre did a few years back, and get a one year deal, and do good and get a fat contract next season. Difference is he is gonna be 35 and he wants a soft landing. Beltre went into the fire of the AL East and proved he could play in a pressure cooker. If he wants to prove he can bring veteran leadership, and solid production he should sign with the Red Sox or even the Orioles. Image his demand with teams if he led the Orioles to a winning season or Playoffs with teams with young staffs that are on the cusp. Dont laugh or sleep on the Orioles, the pitching was horrible, but the Offense was decent. It was a perfect storm of why the pitching was bad, and a more realistic ERA of 4.00 and the Orioles would win 80-85 games. The Blue Jays won 81 games with a 4.32 ERA and similar offensive production.
Do you really REALLY think Roy Oswalt will make the Orioles into a contender in the AL East? They should be rebuilding, not aspiring for one in a million chances for success.
People, people. There will be a mystery team, and that team will sign him.
Man, I hope the Cardinals don’t cave in and give Oswalt anywhere near $10M. If we could get him in the $5M range, I’d say we should make a move to open room for him. Otherwise, the rotation and bullpen are solid enough to stand on their own merits.
Oswalt > Westbrook
Pretty simple. If Mo can clear the room in the payroll, I’d love to have Oswalt at $10M. He’d be making less than Kyle Lohse.
Oswalt might be better keeping himself in shape and waiting until one of the contenders has an injury run on their starting rotation. Then he can almost name his price.
“However, this is the same source that told Edes on Friday that Oswalt would sign with the Cardinals soon, and that did not materialize.”
I find this line amusing.
The only way Oswalt would ever sign with the Sox if they’re the only ones left at the dance.
Cardinals and Rangers have full rotations and don’t appear willing to pay the $10 million he wants, and he’s already told Cleveland and Toronto that he isn’t interested. He turned down Detroit’s earlier offer, and they spent that money elsewhere.
Give it a week or so. The Sox may be the only option he has left.
The “will the Red Sox sign someone” story is becoming as derivative as the “what will be the compensation for Epstein” story.
Can pitchers and catcher report now… please.
But what happens if Oswalt does decide to sign in Boston and he gets a bee stingy-poo and he cries? He’ll be so far from home then. Why are the Sox waiting for him? He sounds like exactly the kind of pitcher who can’t handle pitching in Boston… He’s willing to take on less responsibility to be closer to home!? Sounds like a guy born to win, huh? NL batters hit .280 off of him last year and he’s going to come and pitch to the Yankees and Angels lineups? He’s turning 35 this season AND he wants less responsibility AND he wants 10 million?
Oswalt’s not going to sink under pressure in the AL East. He’s a veteran — been in the majors for 11 years. And using a crappy stat like batting average against to judge his value? His xFIP and SIERA were around 4, but that could have been due to him playing injured. Bill James, RotoChamp, and Fangraph Fans project an ERA in the mid-3s.
How is limiting himself to only 2 teams wanting less responsibility?
I used to find the “where will Prince Fielder sign” soap opera to be painful, then I was introduced to Roy Oswalt.
dont forget edwin jackson. both of them are producing more drama then fielder or close to it.
So when does the “where will Ross Gload sign” soap opera begin?
When he becomes relevant.
No kidding. This is getting old very quickly.
Well to me it sounds like the Red Sox, Cards and Rangers have all bowed out.
It would be interesting if the Orioles management woke up from their Angelos induced fog and decided to do whatever it took to sign: Oswalt, Jackson, and Harden (convince him to be a closer). It surely would be interesting! Now, am I holding my breathe no!
As an Astros fan, I’ve watched Oswalt pitch many years. He had some fantastic years from 2001-2008. After watching him pitch last year, he’s about 70% of what he used to be, but is still an above average starter. If I were the Cards, I’d give him the same contract they gave Berkman, 1 year $8million. He’ll jump on it. His affinity for the Cards is the same as what Berkman had……the Astros and Cards had some great competion from the mid 90s to mid 2000s and there was a lot of mutual respect. Plus, StLouis is not far from his home in Mississippi. He’s also considering the Rangers as he pitched so long in Texas with the Astros and is very familiar with the “commute” to his Mississippi home. But, frankly this is a player who is on the downside of his career…..has maybe 2 good years left in the tank, so no team should over-do it in signing him. Good luck to Roy, but glad I don’t have to watch him on the downside.
I wonder how much it is worth to get on a team that should have a better then average shot at the playoffs? Thats one thing that is hard to put a price!!!! Go Cards!!!! 12 in 12
I wonder how much it is worth to get on a team that should have a better then average shot at the playoffs? Thats one thing that is hard to put a price!!!! Go Cards!!!! 12 in 12
Makes no sense….Why would you sign Kyle McClellan to a 1 yr/$2.5M and let a pitcher like Oswalt slide through the crack…They have to money by not doing something foolish signing Pujols !!!