1:25pm: Alderson acknowledged the trade talks and said he doesn't expect them to accelerate during the GM Meetings according to Martino, who heard from other executives that talks are just preliminary (Twitter link). Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter) that the Mets seek outfield and catcher help in a deal. They still haven't ruled out an extension either.
11:51am: Andy Martino of The New York Daily News says there is still "healthy internal debate" about Dickey within the organization and that nothing is final (Twitter links). They could look to act quickly if progress towards a contract extension is made, however.
11:34am: The Mets are showing little interest in signing R.A. Dickey to an extension and are discussing the knuckleballer in trades, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Earlier this morning Joel Sherman of The New York Post reported that there is still a significant gap in contract talks, so the team started to gauge trade interest.
Dickey, 38, is a finalist for the Cy Young Award after pitching to a 2.73 ERA this season. He led the NL in starts (33), innings (233 2/3), and strikeouts (230) while winning 20 games. The Mets exercised Dickey's club option after the season, so he'll earn $5MM next season before qualifying for free agency. Zack Greinke is the only ace-caliber pitcher on the free agent market, so GM Sandy Alderson has some leverage in trade talks even though Dickey is only under contract for one more year.
My only concern about trading for Dickey would be trading the farm for someone who is 37-38 years old. I know knuckleballers pitch forever, but realistically how many good years can he have left?
Realistically, he could have 5 or more. Nobody knows. He throws differently and his arm is different than everyone else’s. His case really is a precedent, because in the history of knucklers, there’s never been anything like this.
terrible move by the mets…they need pitching and they are debating trading a great starting piece away?
they aren’t jumping the Nats, Braves, Phils, and Marlins to compete this year why not get good value for Dickey?
They aren’t jumping the Marlins period, as they already finished above them in 2012
Dickey is 38 years old. I don’t care that he throws a knuckleball. This is absolutely the right move for a rebuilding team.
“diehardmets” post is the right response to this. An ace is important, but when the rest of the roster is weak, then you are better off with the prospects.
Tell that to the two time world series champion Giants, with their All-Star ridden roster. Not.
i heard posey, cabrera, and sandoval were pretty good hitters but fangraphs is down so i can’t make sure
I also heard David Wright, Ike Davis, and Ruben Tejada are pretty good hitters too. The differences between the Giants and the Mets were Angel Pagan and a Bullpen. Ironically one of those players was traded from the Mets in order to full some holes we had, worked out brilliantly…for the Giants.
comparing Ike Davis and Tejada’s hitting ability to Cabrera and Sandoval is a big stretch. Mets and Giants are so different on many levels. Giants are better in basically every category. Point is, Mets are ways away from jumping over Nats, Braves, and maybe even the Phillies. You just can’t keep a 38 y/o around when you can make your organization better
wow. did you watch the season?
I heard Cabrera was juicing too…derf
They also need a better offense and a better bp.
Terrible move why? It’s probably a smarter move to sell high on a 37 year old with one great year and 2 good ones in his entire career. Yes his story is awesome but at the same time it’s a knuckle baller there is no guarantee that, that pitch will be just as effective next season. There is a reason knuckle ballers don’t have long great careers. The pitch is uncontrollable and there is to much that goes into having a kber on the staff( a specific catcher or special training for your every day catcher) sell high on him get 2-3 really good prospects and rebuild.
Seriously? The only place the system is really stocked is in the starting pitching department. Between Harvey, Neise, Gee, and Wheeler the Mets seem to have at least four useful starters already.
Ned Colletti “one last call to have my prospects laughed at”
Dickey for Porcello, straight up. Trollololol.
Though it will be painful to see him go, this would be the right move for sure. The rest of the team is atrocious, and they need the prospects to rebuild.
This just means he wants a big contract. I’m sure if he was looking for a 2yr/20m deal there wouldn’t be any trade talk.
or it means the Mets are low balling him with no intentions of signing him considering they probably won’t contend while RA Dickey is productive
If the Mets won’t contend in the next three years then sell the franchise.
Now this could be an idea that Duquette might support and I would be in total favor!
Alas, though who would the Orioles trade?
ill ask an Os fan. I thought Greinke would be a good fit in Baltimore. Not a huge market. Baltimore has been willing to pay for guys before. would you want greinke on the Os?
Os have said they won’t sign an FA pitcher for more than 3 years. Possible they go four but not enough to get Greinke.
It be fair to start with schoop a guy who isnt a top 100 prospect but has talent. Maybe add Delmonico and an outfield prospect as well. I dont think they will get a top 100 pitching prospect for a 38 yr old with a one yr deal.
With Dickeys salary this year being so cheap (5 mil) there is not a team in baseball that would not give 3 players, who are all outiside the top 100 prospect rankings in exchange for Dickey. You have to give up something to get something. Given that Dickey will be with his new team (if traded) for the entire year, he should at least better the packahe the Brewers got in the Grienke deal. Not to mention if he is traded now, his new team can get a draft pick following the 2013 if Dickey chooses to sign elsewhere.
Really? This is the rationale that kept the Orioles in the AL East basement for a hundred years. Think about it! He is signed on a 1 year deal. A qualifying offer can be made by his new team and they will gain a draft pick if he leaves. Do you think THAT is worth something? How about 1 year of a Cy Young Award winner? How about BOTH?
“This is the rationale that kept the Orioles in the AL East basement for a hundred years.” No it isnt, the guys 38 and even if he was an ace the O’s dont even become the favorites in the division with him. Either one of their 2 top prospects will be more valuable than trading for one yr of dickey. That’s true even if you factor in the supplemental round pick. Dont you think the Giants regret trading for beltran?
They could get a young pitching prospect back, to go along with Wheeler and Harvey. I really think its a really good idea to explore and see what teams will offer.
ya, if they could get a blue chip pitching prospect in AA or higher, then they would have set themselves up nicely for the future.
for one year of Dickey? I doubt it.
We got one for half a season of Beltran…
true that but I thought that was a mistake on Giants part.
Smart move they need to rebuild around safer options, they’re a few years from competing.
If they are a few years away from competing then trade david wright.
Trade a one hit wonder 38 year old for some good prospects. Good job mets
It is unclear yet whether he will be a one hit wonder. There are reasons to think that his success is somewhat sustainable. It is not like diminishing velocity with age is a problem.
The fact that it took him until the age of 38 for people to know his name could be a problem
Or that could be when Dickey mastered the knuckleball….
Judging talent based on common fans’ knowledge of their name. Good theory.
one hit wonder or not he is still 38. By the time the Mets can turn things around and be competing for the playoffs he will be at least 40. May as well bite the bullet and deal him when his stock is at its highest.
just thinking out loud…what if Greinke signs somewhere else…what would the Angels give up for dickey?
look at his stats for 2010 and 2011, i dont think they qualify as “one hit wonder”
I agree. I think it’d be shrewd to move him at peak value, though. And am also hoping you made out alright in last week’s events. Tough time for the mile square. Thought I’d take the opportunity for a shout-out.
Hey Gregg, hope you made out alright as well. We just got power back on monday and was actually flooded in until late Weds night. Luckily no damage, but my block and the surrounding neighborhoods got slammed.
Same deal here to the day. Heat yesterday finally. Folks belongings still piled high in the street. I’m glad you’re okay. Nice to have the baseball distraction. I’m in town for 28 years now and it was heartbreaking to see the place and the people take such a punch.
I agree, its been a completely surreal week and a half. Glad to hear you’re doing alright as well and hopefully town gets put back together soon.
He isn’t a one year wonder. Do your homework before posting comments.
I said one hit wonder, not one year.
Alright even I have to admit you just made me laugh… don’t know if that was your intention. ONE HIT wonder as in his two one hitters. Cute, very well done sir, if intentional.
You get what I meant. His name was only really heard this season. Now that he is at his peak, it’s a great time to trade him.
Yes, if you meant he became a household name throughout all of MLB, then yes 2012 was technically his breakout year. 2010 and 2011 I would say that he was a household name to fans in the NL East.
2 good and 1 great year is not a good sign for a guy who is closer to 40 than 30
Chewie, it was 2 VERY good years and 1 great year. Again, please look at the stats and go beyond wins and losses. ::Shaking head::
Yes, knuckleballer or not, his age hurts in trade negotiations. The Mets will still probably get 2 very, very good prospects/cheap MLB talent in return. Possibly three depending on how many teams are interested (will probably be most teams in the league).
Um, historically for his type he probably can be effective through age 44-45.
I don’t know if there is really a fair historical comparison to Dickey. Yes, he’s a knuckleballer. He’s possibly the only knuckleballer ever for whom velocity is important though. Tough pitcher to project.
In theory, because the pitch is relatively easy on the arm, but with a knuckleballer even a crack in a fingernail is a disabling injury. It’s less about his age than the pitch he lives by. Reading Jim Bouton, I came away with the idea that this pitch is as maddening for the pitcher to control as it can be for batters to hit. It’s hard for the player to know why it works some days and not others.
How ridiculous would it be for Dickey to win the Cy Young and then end up traded?!
I don’t understand why they wouldn’t trade him. They’re not a piece or two a way, they still have some significant work to do on their roster.
Completely true. It’s not like Dickey is 28 years old…he’s 38. They have no business giving a 38 year old 4-5 years. Trade him off for a prospect near the majors or a package of lower level guys. Pitchers like him even at 38 will bring in some players.
Knuckleballers age differently. Even though he’s 38, his value is that of a 28.
R. A. Dickey is 38 but he is a knuckleball pitcher, They can last a long time (see Phil Niekro, Charlie Hough, etc.). Dickey may pitch until he is 45.
It’s about bringing fans to the games. We want to see this guy pitch. I’m on the side of trading him, being that you can get something incredible for him at this point.
Kansas City? A package that includes… I have no idea. Don’t think KC will give up Starling (who I assume the Mets would want) but perhaps they would buy low on a Mike Montgomery/Tim Collins package? Obviously they are looking for offensive players, but it also wouldn’t surprise me to see them get back pitching.
KC shouldn’t be acquiring 38 year olds right now
KC is looking for starting pitching and is loaded with young talent. After seeing what the Athletics and Orioles this year, there is no reason to think the Royals couldn’t do that next year with all the young talent they already have especially in that division. It also puts fans in the seats and you know, makes them a better team. Regardless of his age, they would be acquiring potentially the National League Cy Young Winner for the previous year.
I am on the fence with this. Not sure if Dickey solves all their problems and makes them a contender so I have to agree with Karkat but I see your point with the Athletics and Orioles. I think their interest should really depend on their plans in FA. If (and I know this is outrageous but I am being hyperbolic) KC suddenly decides they are going to sign Greinke and Anibal Sanchez then suddenly they look like they look like they could be serious contenders and Dickey makes 100% sense
Bingo. Even if KC doesn’t get Greinke, perhaps they take a chance on someone like Dan Haren (assuming he is healthy). A top of the rotation of Dickey/Haren/Santana is really not that bad at all. The Royals have the pieces to make a deal with the Mets for Dickey and still have plenty of chips left over to make other moves – and I am not even a Royals fan. If KC is willing to give up Starling (whom the Mets would want) and someone like Tim Collins, it probably could get done.
This’d be a really good trade for both sides if they can match up with a contender who has a good prospect or two to flip. I imagine any team with the space could meet him with an agreeable extension shortly after a trade, so it doesn’t seem like a huge risk, either.
It probably be best to trade him now, so the other tame would be assured a pick if he cant be extended.
Dickey & Murphy for Upton. AZ’s looking for SP and 3B help. Murphy’s natural position is 3B, it gives the Mets an excuse to slot Valdespin into 2B, and it gets them outfield help without spending significant money on a FA OF.
Alderson is doing his due diligence .. good for him, if he can get pieces to fill other holes on our team, do it .. especially since he’s “hot” right now. I’d personally trade him after the Cy Young is announced, if he has something
Absolutely. Floating the name to find out market value and to grease the wheels on the negotiation. Alderson improves his position regardless.
trading him wouldn’t be a bad idea you expect this 38 year old knuckleballer to keep pitching this way you people are nuts. Trade him now. the only one that should be a lock is David Wright at this point. I would try n trade him and Duda or Ike for Justin Upton.
Why the hell would you trade Ike for Upton. Because a GG calibur first basemen thats under cheap control is definitely more valuable than a question marked outfielder who is earning more money at the same age. The Mets have no idea if Uptons power would even play in Citi. Ike put up some real good numbers considering he was recovering from Valley Fever, I expect an even bigger year from him next year.
Well I would rather trade duda but considering he just fractured his wrist I don’t think that’s possible anymore. Justin Upton is young fast and has power and he good friends with David wright since highschool. who would you put in Center next year. I really like Ike too but with the circumstances at hand..I would try n package Duda with Dickey first of course even Dickey and Ruben Tejada and Duda for Upton. Arizona is looking for a SS and MLB ready players so who knows
David is close with BJ not Justin. I wouldn’t even call them close, they just played on the same team together when they were younger.
The Dbacks have Goldschmidt at 1B and likely will have him there for many years to come. He’s just as slick with the glove and has light-tower power. Don’t get me wrong, I like Ike a lot, but the Dbacks already have a better option in house.
I could see Towers getting the Dbacks in the mix here.
KT will almost certainly at least place a call. However, knuckleballers have a very poor track-record at Chase Field, likely because many Knuckleballers tend to be “fly ball pitchers”. In Chase Field, a strong breeze (if the panels are open) can help carry a routine flyball to the wall and beyond. Although Dickey would be interesting, it’s unlikely tyhe Dbacks pay the price the Mets are going to be looking for.
Don’t disagree at all. I am curious to see how much a 38 year old with a one year deal brings back though. Would something like Parra/Holmberg or Pollack/Corbin with another lower level piece be enough?
Didn’t seem to bother Dickey pitching there this year.
Sign Wright, trade Dickey (as much as I like the guy). He’s not a pivitol piece to the Mets winning a World Series. His value is the highest it’s been, and will ever be. They could probably get a very decent return for him. Lord knows they need the help.
I think the Rangers have to be in on this one, and could offer Alexi Ogando, a solid major leaguer and a prospect.
Will they offer Olt and Martin?
Depends if they get an extension. One or the other would probably in the deal, yes.
I hope not… Not for Ogando. Lets not forget that Dickey started throwing that knuckleball here in TEX. Just gave up 6 HR’s in 1 start at the luanching pad before being released. — Granted the knuckler was not mastered at that point of Dickeys career. But if the knuckler doesnt knuckle the Ballpark In Arlington is not the place to be.
Charlie Hough was the best pitcher the Rangers had when I was growing up, I think Dickey’s proven his Knuckler works 20 games last year. With any pitcher its about location.
Knuckleballers get killed in arlington. I remember the fans booing Dickey off the field in that 6 HR game. Tim Wakefield has pitched 21 games in Arlington he is 5-13 with a 6.23 ERA. Rangers are idiots if they want anything to do with Dickey after dumping him in 03
Tried finding some data to see how Dickey fairs in generally hr prone parks. Sample size for this year involves pretty much 1 start in Great American Ballpark where he gave up 3 HRs, 5ERs. and a start in CBP 1 run in 7 innings. The rest were either fair parks or larger than normal parks.
Hough pitched in a entirely different ballpark. He missed the launching pad and jet stream in the current ball yard.
The Rangers had him before his knuckleball days and let him go. Not sure they’ll revisit acquiring him again.
No. They need to keep him. Knuckleballers don’t age and he is the ONLY bright spot on this team. Give him what he wants, he will produce for as long as they need him. Why would you trade him for prospects when no other team would take a 38 year old? 2014 will bring us ALOT of money to get prospects or veterans with Bay and Santana’s contracts over.
If a team is willing to throw a stud MLB ready OF/C plus prospects you have to jump on that deal. Plus if you believe the reports that multiple teams would like to acquire him, Sandy wouldn’t be doing his job if he did not at least kick the tires on a possible deal.
R.A. is not a convectional soft tossing Knuckleballer, who’s to say he will produce the control, speed, or his command for the remainder of his new contract much less next season.
Tigers would jump at this instead of re-signing Sanchez.. but the price would have to be reasonable… Rick Porcello for him sound fair?
Not really
Porcello is 23 and has a career WAR of almost 10.
Dickey is 38 and has a career WAR of 12.
I am thinking that in the next 15 years, Porcello will get to 12.
You are right, Porcello is way to too much to give up for Dickey.
For anyone wanting to learn how to not properly use WAR here it is.
It is not proper use to know that a 23 year old already has a career WAR of 10?
Most 23 year old major leaguers are still years away from their peak. Porcello is clearly undervalued.
Comparing Dickey at 23 and Dickey at 38 is a bad application of WAR. Which is how you compared Porcello and Dickey. Furthermore, who is to say you will control Porcello for 15 years?
That is a reasonable argument.
Porcello is very likely to have a much better overall career than Dickey… but that’s not the point for their next contract.
Who do you think will have a better NEXT 4 years and can WAR be used to analyze that?
My answer:
Porcello will likely be better because he has an impressive career WAR at a very young age of 23. You would think there is a reasonable chance he will get better when he is 24-27.
Dickey’s career WAR was based largely on this past one year. It would be risky to assume that he would be able stay at 2012 level for the next 4 years when he is 39-42.
Dickey’s 2012 might be better than Porcello will ever achieve, but who do you think will do better in the next 4 years?
NOTE: We should also factor in that Porcello will likely cost about 40-50% less than Dickey over this time period (average of $7-8M/year v. $13-14M+/year?)
No brainer Dickey. If I was the Tigers, and all the Mets wanted for Dickey was Porcello. I’d have Dave Dombrowski drive Porcello over to NY in a wheel barrel.
Thank you. As much as I and most mets fans love Dickey, signing him is not the right move
I would definitely move Dickey while his value is at its highest.
Fits for Dickey off the top of my head I see could be Kansas City, Arizona, and Pittsburgh. Cincinnati matches up nicely with the Mets as well, but they might be hesitate to bring a knuckleballer into that ballpark.
well if the Mets do end up trading Dickey that means they will also have to trade Thole to catch him.
If they trade Dickey away this year who is making his starts? This would kill their already struggling revenue.
Rangers and Rays are the best fits for Dickey. Met fans may say that trading Dickey is a terrible move, but the fact of the matter is, not only is it a smart move (his value won’t be any higher than it is now), trading him would give us the flexibility to filling a lot of holes that are on the team. Same should apply to Wright.
why would the Rays need RA Dickey when they already have a wealth of pitching? They need hitting more than anything.
“They need hitting more than anything”
Isn’t that the reason why they’re trying to shop Price, Shields & Hellickson right now? If they go, who will be their ace? The Mets would probably attempt to get one of those “wealth of pitchers” Tampa possesses plus an OF (Jennings?). I’ve read before that Tampa loves Lucas Duda so something bigger than this can come from this that doesn’t just involve pitching.
They are merely gauging interest in the league, Friedman has come out before and said they can afford to keep Price and Shields. Remember if they trade a top pitcher they must get something even better in return, since top tier pitching is a rarity. Their OF is already shallow so I don’t think they will trade Jennings unless they are overwhelmed. Duda won’t be traded due to his injury.
if dickey gets traded that means Thole get traded with him cause who else can catch him?
Been a loyal fan since their inception after rooting for yes, the Brooklyn Dodgers. This move ranks right there with losing Seaver to a trade. May need a new team to root for.
We’re always looking for fans in Toronto…
Here’s the problem. If we are balking at signing a 38 year old knuckler who will win the Cy Young, every other team will too. You think some team is going to give up their top talent (MULTIPLE top prospects?) to pick up a 38 year old knuckler that they will immediately have to sign to a long-term extension? Because of the good PR, fan favorite, etc, he has more value to the Mets than any other team. Teams are going to trade for a guy like James Shields 10 times over before they trade for Dickey. And I love the guy.
I have no problem seeing what they can get, but people are acting like we have this rock solid rotation. Santana – 1 more year and big question mark. Niese – nice year but still far from a proven frontline pitcher. Harvey – literally a rookie…looked good but far from a sure bet. Gee – we don’t know how healthy he will be. Rest of our “depth” is at or below replacement level. Wheeler “might” be ready sometime this season, but he might not.
Prospects are just that – prospects. Far from a sure bet. Dickey – he’s the genuine article. I’d hate to see the Mets trade him for prospects that “might” turn out in 2-3 years (because that’s all we’ll get is A and AA level guys who project to be big leaguers – no one is giving up MLB-ready top-level prospects for a 38 year old knuckler)
No, every other team will NOT balk at signing him. The difference is timing. The Mets are not built to win now. It makes no sense for them to commit money to him when his window is right now. However, for a team built to win right now, he would make perfect sense. Any team would be lucky to have this guy as he is everything that is advertised and more. He just doesn’t make sense for the Mets right now because they stink right now and by the time they get good, he probably won’t be.
My point is this – The Mets need him regardless of timing. We have 2 1/2 other MLB worthy starters right now that we know are healthy (counting Santana as 1/2). You can still trade him if you sign him to an extension if you need to. While you are correct, another team “might” be willing to sign him longterm, but is there a team that has the money, the need, and the prospects and are willing to give them up for Dickey vs. a guy like Shields? I’m just saying that these deals aren’t made in a vacuum and just because you get prospects doesn’t mean they do anything for you. I have no problem with exploring it, but just trading him “because his value is high” is not the only reason to consider. Dickey is the best pitcher we have by a mile right now.
This would be a great/smart/shrewd move by the Mets to trade Dickey. I have always wondered why sports teams never SELL HIGH? When you have a player who has just had a career year at AGE 38! YOU MOVE HIM NOW! Especially after he garners the Cy Young award. Excellent move by Sandy Alderson. He is definitely a thinking man’s GM. To all the GM’s out there it never makes sense to sign or re-sign to an extension a player who has a career year at an older age. This should have been done when Carlos Delgado hit 40+ HR’s at the age of 36 and when REYES was having the half-season of his life and when Pelfrey ended the season last year with a few solid wins. The team’s must learn to SELL HIGH! Not re-sign to extensions after career years.
The Mets need a real solid/smart young Catcher who can work/control the pitching staff for the next 5-6 years…
The Mets need revenue this comes in two forms. Players and Teams that fans want to see (Whether visiting or their own) and Winning teams. Dickey provided the NYM with a revenue stream that they wouldn’t have had without him. Sandy Alderson and Co. are constantly talking about stemming the bleeding money from the team and creating an organization thats profitable. Dickey when viewed under this lens is a solution to the Mets struggling revenues. Without him and with no replacement the NYM fan base will be even further disheartened and ticket sales will plummet even further. Losing Reyes is one thing Dickey would be too much.
Go get em, AA.
Why not keep Dickey, try and make some upgrades and see how the season plays out?
If the Mets are not in it by July, then they can trade him to a contender.
If they are still in it, then he can stay put.
I hate this. R.A Dickey is such an awesome Met. We have other pieces to trade.
Wouldn’t the interest in Dickey be severely limited? He’s 38, and a knuckleballer has two huge pieces of baggage….few catchers can handle them, and they allow a whopping number of homers. Not to mention the inconsistency (I doubt he will duplicate 2012, and will more than likely go Wakefieldesque in the near future).
They should have traded him before the deadline last season. Cy Young or not, Mets would have gotten heck of a lot more than now
Why do I see Dickey in a Red Sox uniform next year?
I know everyone’s looking for prospects but how about a Dickey and Duda trade to Arizona for Upton and Parra? Would that be too much? I know Upton is owed 9 million next season but 2 young outfielders for Dickey and a hopeful Duda who would thrive in Arizona. Although, I don’t know if Arizona is in a win now kinda mode like would they trade Upton for prospects or a proven pitcher like Dickey….Idk just a thought
20 game winners are the rarest of all commodities in baseball, and one that can do that on a way sub .500 team is rarer still.
Alderson has lied about his intentions over and over and over again. Dickey can pitch for at least 4 more years as he has little wear and tear on his arm and is a knuckleballer who can easily pitch into his mid-fourties. He would be a bargain as the money we threw away on Oliver Perez. In addition, fans buy more tickets when he pitches. I see no players or players that the Mets can afford that would be worth trading for. Let’s keep our CY Young award winner and move on.