With extension talks still at a stalemate, the Cubs could still potentially deal top starter Jeff Samardzija before the start of the season, reports Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times. Two sources said that was a strong possibility, while another rejected the idea that trade talks were in progress.
It has been nearly a month since the 29-year-old's name has seen the pages of MLBTR in reference to trade chatter. While he avoided arbitration with Chicago in the interim, both player and club have given recent indication that the sides are somewhat entrenched in terms of a longer deal.
With only one premium starter (Ervin Santana) still on the market, the Rays seemingly likely to open the year with David Price in their rotation, and Homer Bailey now not even a theoretical trade candidate, an opportunity could conceivably arise to get solid value for Samardzija. Surely, the likelihood of a deal would rise if the team does not believe it can get him to sign a new deal at a palatable price, though a mid-season move might still be a preferable strategy. Fueling the sense that a trade could still be in the works, says Wittenmyer, is the fact that manager Rick Renteria has declined to name Samardzija the Opening Day starter, saying that "so many things can happen over the course of the spring that I'm not going to lock myself in[]."
The M’s Nick Franklin for the Cubbies’ Jeff Samardzija.
Felix/Iwakuma/Paxton/Samardzija/Walker
And the Cubs hang up right when they hear that offer
with Barney at 2b and no MLB ready options behind him? Franklin is a great start. Switch-hitting gamer with a lot of power and an unyielding dedication.
Key word there is start.
Baez will be up right when his service time gets him another year, Alcantara pretty much the same thing
Alcantara is probably going to be on the big club by July or August and he’s just as good if not better of a prospect than Franklin. If Alcantara doesn’t work out Baez could play there or Starlin could get moved there is Baez plays SS.
Alcantara hasn’t played AAA yet!
I don’t know if he’s going to be up this year or not, but there’s not much ahead of him… He improved a lot last year and I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave him a shot.
So. Neither did Jose Fernandez. I didn’t know it was a requirement…
Alcantara doesn’t even come close to approaching Franklin’s offensive potential. Franklin outhit him in AA while 2 years younger.
I don’t discount Franklin as a prospect, nor do I think the Cubs would necessarily refuse him as part of a return in a deal (and let’s not even mention possible third-party candidates), but you oughtta check your math, Professor Tolson: both Franklin and Alcantara did the bulk of their time at AA at age 21.
No offense, but if your conclusion on a player is based on one minor league season at a young age, you have no future in scouting/front office, etc. From seeing both of these guys personally play for multiple seasons, I can assure you that Alcantara is the prospect with the higher upside. For one, Alcantara has game changing speed, and probably a little more pop than Franklin. They are pretty even in the contact department but the havoc Alcantara can cause on the base paths is weapon that Franklin lacks. Defensively they are pretty even but I will say Alcantara has a little more upside due to his speed/range capabilities. You also can’t discount that last season at AA was Alcantara’s first full season of professional ball and his stats wouild have been higher had fatigue not set in during the latter portion of the season when his numbers fell off slightly.
Not a better prospect by Baseball America. And if we get Jack Z. to come off his prospects, then does it hurt to have more talent??? (As you mention if Alcantara doesn’t work out..so if Franklin comes with others, why not? Not gonna hurt 2014 Cubs chances of WS is it?)
Shark is the Cubs main trade chip that will bring in top pitching prospects first and foremost. You don’t target depth infield prospects with a guy like Samardzija especially when the Cubs are stacked with solid infield prospects. If they all don’t work out then you cross that bridge but as the Cubs player with the most value Shark won’t be given up for Franklin.
Barney won a gold glove.
The Cubs aren’t going anywhere soon, he’ll do.
The Cubs have Baez (SS is blocked at the MLB level)
The Cubs also have Alcantara who has been compared to a young Jose Reyes.
Unless the Mariners start the conversation with the words “Taijuan Walker is available, let’s talk.” Jed Hoyer will hang up the phone and take one of the 28 other teams that can put up a better offer than “Nick Franklin.”
There’s one thing in common about all Mariner’s fans… They sure can dream with the best of ’em. How’s Tanaka looking in Mariner blue? lol.
Ok, then, Felix and Cano for Samardzija with the M’s picking up $400MM in salary difference. Dang you Cubbies strike a hard bargain. (Pleeeeze stay on the phone…)
Ironically that has just as much of a chance as happening as your first proposal. Not trying to hate on Franklin but the Cubs aren’t going to trade Shark for another middle infielder, it will be pitching or you aren’t getting him
We once did an M’s/Cubs Carlos “El Bufalo” Silva for Milton “Have-I-Beat-My-Wife-Today” Bradley. So let’s get jump the Shark with Jesus Montero going to the Windy City! It’s not like the Cubbies expect to break tradition and win this year or next…
I think it would take Franklin + Paxton and a couple lower level players for Smardzija. Cubs fans who are hating, remember that Paxton and Franklin are MLB ready players and Shark only has 2 years of control. Paxton and Franklin have 10-12 years of control. Franklin is instantly better than Barney too
The M’s aren’t giving up Paxton and the Cubs don’t want Franklin. Better than Barney, yes. Better than Alcantara or Baez, no
The Cubs have lots of infield holes: 3b, SS, 2b
SS Starlin Castro. 3b Kris Bryant or Mike Olt 2b Alcantara or Baez. Holes this year yes, in the future doubtful
Bryant will be a LF
Their farm system is loaded at those positions though… Kris Bryant, Javier Baez, Arismedy Alcantara… Cubs need pitching, young quality pitching
I.E. Paxton and one of the lower SP starters we have who are Org top 5 guys. Olt can’t be counted on to be a 3b and after last year I would imagine Castro is no sure bet either.
I don’t get why Paxton’s name comes up as a trade candidate. He is the only lefty pencilled into the rotation. Unless 37 year-old, rehab project Randy Wolf greatly exceeds expectations or the M’s shock us all and decide to stretch out Furbush, then southpaw Paxton isn’t going anywhere.
Probably because Walker is much more untouchable. If the Mariners want to get Shark (in a park friendly to his weakness HRs) then Paxton is at least one part of the deal. I’d add C Montero, LHP Hultzen, LHP Luis Gohara and Franklin and will kick them back Lake too. (He hits lefties well – and the Mariners have a slew of lefty hitters that can’t hit lefties…including Franklin, so far.)
Because people don’t realize that Paxton made adjustments to his mechanics and is about to destroy the league. He has probably the best stuff of any lefty starter in baseball. It wouldn’t surprise me if Paxton outperforms Samardazzdja this season.
Looking at his starts in September…good stuff…hit above 95MPH. Sure, I want to steal him before the Mariners know what hit them. Shark will be pretty good in Safeco..but a fireballer lefty. BET!
Jack is very high on Paxton, there’s little chance he goes anywhere without something major coming back in return.
So is Alcantara. Why on earth would they do that when they have more infield depth than any other team in the minor leagues? Baez Bryant Alcantata and Vogelbach is better than some MLB infields
Alcantara has been mentioned as a CF option at least until Almora gets on the scene. (Like a Eric Young Sr. type.) If you got Franklin at 2B (with power) with LHP 95MPH+ James Paxton, and C Montero (like Olt in the Garza trade) + Danny Hultzen (Vizcaino comp) I think you can be happy enough. Shark is valued at about 10 WAR – his 2-year production plus his undervalued arb contracts. So 2 guys that can put up 1.5 WAR per season min for 3 seasons is about the value back. get lucky, and we gain more if Montero or Hultzen bounce back… Shark teases as a #1 starter, but is at best a #2, but that $15-18M for 4-5 years? Past 30? And well… in Paxton – the Cubs don’t have a 95MPH lefty that can start and learn for 2 years. If Arrieta’s tease on potential turns, you then got 2 young arms that can pump gas, and might be your #2 and #3.
So the M’s trade their best chip and Paxton, making another hole in the rotation, so they can fill one with a guy who has less upside than Paxton and 4 fewer years of control? Get out of here. Trading one of their starting pitchers for another doesn’t make sense unless it was for a major improvement, not some generic #3/4.
I agree it sounds like too much but cubs seem completely content with keeping him if they don’t receive the right package. They just gotta find a team dumb enough to overpay for him!
Like the Cubs need another SS
Last season I’m almost certain Nick Franklin was a Second Baseman, unless of course I was watching TV through the mirror. And, of course, the Cubbies would never think of parting with 2B Darwin Barney and his .628 OPS.
The Cubs have Starlin Castro, Javier Baez and Arismendy Alcantara who can all play SS & 2B…an MLB ready guy like Franklin would last maybe 1 year then be displaced by Baez or Alcantara. It makes no sense. Cubs want young pitching in return for Shark.
The M’s need a Centerfielder as well as a #3 starter (who may well turn out to be a recovered Scott Baker). Now wouldn’t that make the game’s most longsuffering fan base happy to see Baker succeed with the game’s second most longsuffering fan base??
Yeah these two clubs just don’t really match up on a trade. They are both deep in young cost controlled middle infield types. The Mariners have young pitching and the Cubs have the Shark. I can’t think of a trade that will work in the real world.
Will take Paxton…too.
Doesn’t make sense for the M’s to give up pitching to get pitching. That would just create another soft spot in the rotation. Samasrasfja isn’t even that much better than Erasmo Ramirez.
Ya gotta give to get, I think people are being to aggressive in their trade proposals, but Jeff in your rotation helps make a playoff push for the next 2 years. The cubs would pull the trigger for Paxton plus Hultzen and Franklin, I can see not wanting to give up your prospects but as I said at the top, ya gotta give to get.
Mr. Zduriencik walks away from those talks politely. Hultzen is recovering from surgery and won’t pass any physical. Paxton is a part of the rotation. Franklin isn’t going to the Cubs. I think the Marlins are a better fit.
The Cubs could still take on Hultzen if they agreed to the potential injury baggage. They did this 2 years ago with Arodys Vizcanio. That being said, I think the M’s would walk away from that.
I don’t think Ricky’s blanket statement of not wanting to name a starter before the ST games even begin is reason enough for speculation. If this was his 4th season at the helm, maybe. But the guy hasn’t seen ANYONE pitch yet…give him a couple runs thru the rotation.
That said, since club and player are so far away in terms of figures I am in favor of a trade. I just think we roll the dice closer to the deadline. You’re more apt to land some good young arms when a contending team is more desperate. IMHO.
I agree, and wouldn’t have run this with just that to go on. But Wittenmyer cited sources, and really added that as a side point, so I mentioned it at the end.
Not knocking your piece, it’s ol’ Gordon Wittenmyer that I shake my head at constantly.
The Cubs are asking for a kings ransom but where else are teams going to get a solid starter from right now. The Cubs will settle for less than what they are asking for and Shark is gone by July
Doubt it, they were able to get Olt, Edwards and Ramirez for 2 months of garza why can’t get more for 2 of shark, who has no injury history like garza does. Don’t underestimate Thoyer. Also rougned odor was supposed to be in the deal instead of Ramirez before elbow issues came up in talks
Cubs would get 2 top 50 prospects plus 2-3 other players for Shark
HAHA!!!!! Zack Greinke didn’t get that and he is 100x better. They will get one tops.
Zack Greinke pulled in alot. I don’t know what trade you were looking at.
Ever hear of Jean Segura? I think he was an all-star his first year as a starter. ( Zack Greinke has been an All-Star once in 10 years…)
Well first of all I’m talking about the original Greinke trade when he had 2 years left.
•Odorrizi was I think somewhere around #75 on top 100 lists.
•Escobar was ranked pretty high the year prior to the deal at #20ish, but had a pretty awful rookie season…so after that he probably had the value of a fringe Top #50.
•Lorenzo Cain was a sell high type throw in. Really only rated as a 3-4 outfielder
•Jeremy Jeffress was a thrown in after the Brewers were tired of him and his substance abuse.
The Royals didn’t get a true Top 50 prospect for a guy a year removed from one of the best seasons we have seen in the last decade. While the Cubs might get a Top 50 prospect that’s about it….he isn’t that good. To expect 2 is just crazy, if I was a Cubs fan I’d be thrilled with one.
Cubs = pathetic.
As a cubs fan this regime is hard to watch operate. They preach that they are trying to build a young nucleus of players. You have the shark here who is young and a great 2 or 3 type pitcher with very few quality pitching prospects in the organization and now they are trying to deal him. Sad, sad state.
Except the fact that he wants ace money and he isn’t an ace. Trade him and get something of value or keep him for two years in which the team will be bad and let him walk for nothing? Obvious choice
Also he is not that young. If he was 26 or younger then that would be one thing, but he’s not. Its a no brainer that you trade him if you get 2 top prospects for him
Innings-wise is he very young considering he’s only been a starter for 3 years. I don’t count age for pitchers based on actual age until they get up to around 35. It’s all about innings and Shark hasn’t thrown as many as his age suggests.
Ok, but you still trade him if he’s still asking for Ace money.
any GM that trades 2 top prospects for him should be fired.
And he’s not “young”…
I agree it would be a bad move to trade him. Their minors lack pitching badly and they won’t get any rotation worthy prospect in a deal for Samar….
I really think they should at least hold on to him.
Really? They got C.J. Edwards for 2 months of Garza and Edwards as 1-2 SP abilities. They should even get a better deal for Samardzija
Texas was desperate so totally different situation…Aldo Garza is much better and a bigger impact.
You also have to realize a team may give you one good pitching prospect in a deal and that’s it. They are too valuable and you need that depth…or else you look like the Cubs.
These days the value of 2 years and a half a year isn’t very much. A lot of teams are ending up with very similar value. I think a trade right now isn’t very wise.
Also if C.J. Edwards had #1 stuff I’m pretty sure he would at least be a Top 100 prospect only 2 years away from the MLB…I think you are a little too hopeful
CJ Edwards is 28th in Baseball America’s Top 100…
C.J. Edwards is number 28 on BA’s Top 100
Yup. we would be trading Samardzija for guys we HOPE TO BE SAMARDZIJA (somewhat) some day. we have him now, just keep him at least until his current deal’s done. or just extend him. (I do not want him getting paid #1 money obviously though)
That’s what he wants though, number 1 money. Why just let him go to free agency? That’s dumb, You get prospects for him
Actively downvoted.
If the Cubs get the offer they are looking for, they will be trading him. If some team out there has a big time injury in their rotation, the first guy they are going to be looking at on the trade market most likely would be Jeff Samardzija. So I wouldn’t totally say there’s no chance it will happen.
Mariners could be strong possibility as could Blue Jays. not saying those teams would give them up, but they do have James Paxton, Marcus Stroman, and Aaron Sanchez. Jays get desperate enough midseason with Samardzija doing well, maybe they cough up one of the two. if so, Cubs better do it. Samardzija is s good #3 starter and that’s it. (not that a team doesnt need that)
I really, really hope that Shark is extended, they need more pitchers like him, not less. They would most likely trade him for pitching prospects which in my mind does not make much sense when you have Shark who is a young 29. I just hope they pay him and give him an extension.
This is just my opinion but I feel like Shark’s potential far outweighs his production. If we can trade him for a future number 1 and another starter then you have to make that deal.
I would much rather take a guaranteed 2/3 than a hopeful 1. Samardzija is a safer bet than a prospect. Plus keep in mind he is somewhat of a hometown guy so fans love him. So if he was traded fans would be very upset.
Real, Smart fans who actually care about the team and don’t get emotional for individual players will understand that a trade helps the overall team.
I agree, but that does not stop fans from getting more upset at the front office than they already are. I would just rather have Samardzija over another package of prospects, even if is a bigger haul then the Garza deal.
I have no clue why fans are upset with this front office. They are doing exactly what they said they would do and by keep players like Samardzija and letting them walk is why Cubs have been the Cubs in past years
The fans that are upset are the ones that think this organization hasn’t gained anything since 2011. Which we have tremendously
Couldn’t agree more. As a jays fan, watching the club sign no one other than Dioner Navarro this offseason, I feel it’s the beginning of a great time to be a Cubs fan.
This. We’d be trading Samardzija for guys we HOPE to be like him someday. We need to start improving MLB team. Not diminishing it further
A top flight starter on a contender goes down with injury between now and opening day, and the likelihood he’s traded goes up dramatically IMO. It seems to happen a lot these days.
And that one team that it could happen to thinks they can win the World Series this year will way over pay most likely for Samardzija also. Everyone is acting like the Cubs are just trying to get rid of him. They aren’t, but if a team blows them away with a deal, they will trade him then for that. Not just trying to dump him
I agree with everything you said. I love the way Theo & Company are running the organization. It’s amazing how some fans still complain about being inept when the franchise hasn’t won a World Series in over 100 years.
And that one team that it could happen to thinks they can win the World Series this year will way over pay most likely for Samardzija also. Everyone is acting like the Cubs are just trying to get rid of him. They aren’t, but if a team blows them away with a deal, they will trade him then for that.
Exactly.
They won’t get blown away with a deal from any smart team. Now i could see the Ray’s getting blown away from a Price offer….but we’re talking a clear Ace vs. a #3.
It’s odd that the Cubs value him like an ace in trade talks but are unwilling to extend him like they think he’s an ace.
Exactly!
I think teams tend to pay for past performance while they may be more willing to trade for future potential. I like Samardzija, but he hasn’t earned ace money yet. Personally, I think waiting on the extension is a good idea for both sides. I’m sure Samardzija expects to have a good first half, which should translate into a bigger payday. I think Theo & Co. would be happy to pay him for that performance, but if he struggles, they can cut bait and move on.
I think it makes perfect sense. It’s like your car. It’s a cheap small car, but it gets you around, so you don’t really want to sell it. If someone offers you the cost of a Ferrari, you’d damn well take it. But you also wouldn’t drop thousands into your beat up car to rebuild the engine just to have to deal with the other junk failing over the next 10 years.
Shark isn’t going anywhere unless it’s for two top pitching prospects. The Cubs are open to signing him, but he wants to be paid like a number #1, and still hasn’t shown it. Cubs would like to lock him up now, Shark would like to see what he can bring. No reason to be mad at either party. Cubs are going to listen and do their due diligence and they are waiting for a team that believes they are one piece away. Could be now, could be in July, probably doesn’t matter much to Theo and Jed.
1. New York Mets – Syndergaard (no way), Montero(way), Matz(way), Plawecki(way) – if the Mets could work if a 3-way deal gives them Franklin and the Cubs land Montero, Paxton and 2 once-hurt prospects from the Mariners. But this is totally a DREAM for the Cubs. Not likely at all the Mets want to give too much for Franklin. Mets stand pat…
2. Toronto – Sanchez, Stroman – they have too much else to worry about to think of giving up their best prospects for 3rd place (at best) finish
3. Baltimore – Gausman and Bundy (TJ). They will wait until July…
4. Seattle – ripe for the picking solo. Hisashi Iwakuma is hurt for a bit…need too a RH OF. Cubs don’t need Shark to lose 85-95 games. Mariners will be on the block (sale) by 2015, I bet. Need to WIN in 2014 to improve the valuation of the franchise…
5.Pittsburgh – inter-division. Nope. They want to succeed.
Blue Jays also need a 2B so maybe Barney is deal and Romero coming back.
I hope the Mariners checked in on Samardzija.
I hope they didn’t after all I’ve been hearing about how much it will take to get him.
Dang skippy. Who would trade a potential #1 for a guy that has a career 4.19 ERA???
If thats the case, we should pass. Just wish we had more available starter options with exp.
give these guys a year….you saw what the Cardinals did with their top pitching prospects this past season….The dudes threw great. I got a feeling Seattle will have a stout rotation this year! The offense might be the issue.
I don’t think the Cubs and Mariners match up well as trade partners because the Cubs will surely ask for a deal including something along the lines of Walker (whether he’s worth it or not) and if the mariners were going to deal him they could package to get Price (Younger, better, lefty)
Wherever Samardzija goes, the deal is going to be for pitching prospects and more pitching prospects. A position player will probably be in the deal somewhere, but won’t be the center of it
For Walker????If they trade a high ceiling controllable for 5+ years Walker for a guy that would be a #3-4 on most teams….and controllable for what, 2 years? No thanks.
Samardzija for Package lead by walker is a bad deal for mariners.
Mariners will walk when cubs ask for it, and if they say no to it cubs will walk. That’s why i’m saying they’re bad trade partners when talking Samardzija
No i agree, i just can’t believe people think he’s worth a top prospect. But someone will be desperate enough i’m sure.
“A position player won’t be the center of it” I think i was wrong haha
Have to believe the difference between the 2 sides is too much to resolve. Samardzija’s a goner.
Cubs stocked at minors at position players. They need pitching. Trading pitching for a 2b other than the next jackie Robinson makes no sense. Cubs may even draft trae turner out of nc state so multiple pitchers for shark is only option for theo/Jed
You can count on Texas being out….The last 2 studs we got from the Cubs have looked like #5’s.
This guy has not put up numbers that warrant the kind of money and extension he wants. He wants everyone to just have faith in his upside. Ummmm no. Put up some numbers for a full season. If your team drinks the Kool-Aid, then make an offer the Cubs cannot refuse. The guy is a number 4 starter at best. Knock yourself out.
Samardzjia was 45th in WAR among starters last year, right between Greinke and Sabathia. Calling him a #4 at best is just as ridiculous an exaggeration as calling him an ace.
He is a solid number 3 starter on a playoff team
Shark could be dealt before opening day if the Cubs asking price comes down to a reasonable level. Shark has a career FIP of 3.94, playing exclusively in the NL, and most of his stats (FIP, ERA, LOB%, HR/9, HR/FB) have not improved over the last 3 years. He is not worth 2+ solid pitching prospects.
I would think that one team that might be a possible trade partner, if it comes to that, would be the Rangers. They have a good relationship with the Cubs and definitely have the chips that could be good trade bait.
Neftali Feliz, Jorge Alfaro, Luke Jackson
If you’re contemplating giving up a draft pick for Santana, Samardzija makes sense since he’s under control for 2 seasons at very reasonable rates relatively. He’s not worth any team’s top prospect, but a package of a few players should get it done.
If Garza got C.J. Edwards and Mike Olt, of course the Cubs are going to get a better deal. Samardzija has no injury history, 2 years of control, and he’s better then Garza
3.81 and 4.34 ERAs in his 2 full seasons… he’s a 3 SP with upside. Garza is like a solid 2-3. I think they’re both worth around the same. Olt had fallen slightly out of favor, he wasn’t their top prospect, but he wasn’t garbage that’s for sure. Like I said a package… I mean I remember what the Phillies gave up for Cliff Lee & that seemed like a good package at the time, and I believe they’re all in the Minors for life. It’s a crapshoot.