TODAY: Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com provides a list of the other clubs who sent representatives to watch Santana: the Phillies, Blue Jays, Pirates, and Rangers. Scouts in attendance told Heyman that Santana still needs to build his arm strength back up, but looked to be in great shape and threw as expected given his point on the recovery curve.
YESTERDAY, 5:40pm: The Orioles were among the teams to see Santana, tweets Eduardo Encina of the Baltimore Sun. The club could be interested in bringing him in on a minor league deal, says Encina.
3:26pm: Throwing in Fort Myers today, rehabbing starter Johan Santana showed his current form to seven teams, reports George A. King III of the New York Post. Santana mostly threw in the high-70s, topping out at just 81 mph, though he did flash his usually phenomenal change.
Though those numbers sound less than promising, the workout comes very early on in the process for Santana to regain strength on the mound following a second shoulder surgery, reports Mike Berardino of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. Indeed, a mid-season return has always been the early target for Santana. Agent Peter Greenberg said there is no "firm date," with Santana committed to "tak[ing] it conservatively this time" and "not rushing things."
Per the above two reports, both the Yankees and Twins were among the teams with scouts in attendance.
If his FB tops out at 81 MPH now, is his change really phenomenal anymore? When he was good his FB sat at 90 MPH, and his Change sat around 81 MPH. Its going to be hard to get that type of differential throwing a FB in the low 80s.
He’s a ways away from where he needs to be to return. What still concerns me though is if he still does regain at least 90 on his fastball, is it enough to avoid the HR ball? That’s actually the one thing that was setting him back when he first returned in 2012. League average WHIP but a 4.85 ERA. Because HR rate jumped and had one more than 2011 in 82 fewer IP. He still may be the bargain of the season. We’ll see.
In 2012 Johan’s ERA was 4.85 but his FIP was 4.09 (league average was 4.01) and his HR/9 was 1.31 (league average was 1.02) so I would say he was more of league average pitcher that was a victim of poor defense more than the HR ball.
It was both. I wasn’t ignoring his FIP. Just starting the conversation. But looking further, he still had good years with HR rates that were right about the same as 2011. So yeah, FIP paints a clearer picture with Johann.
He was a different pitcher after he injured his leg in 2012. He was fine beforehand, he had to nibble more but otherwise was very good, it was really only his last few start before being shut down that he was a bad pitcher.
FB tops out at 81. Ruben Amaro offers him a 6 year deal.
Yup
81? 70’s to 81. I was hitting that at age 15. Of course, this just tells us how far he has yet to go. Don’t judge him on this workout necessarily. He’s not due back until June. When that time comes, the team that signs him may or may not have a low risk incentive; bargain of the season. I hope the Angels are there to see if they can replace the Mulder incident. I can see the Rangers being there, as well as the Indians. Perhaps the Royals and Yankees. Braves? Nationals? Dodgers again! Probably teams that can use one more starter for depth, plus the Dodgers.
Didn’t see that the Yankees and Twins were there at first.
I can see the Rangers in on him. He scares me with his Consistency from year to year. But he does have upside….and we need 2+ starters IMO.
Johan Santana for 4/50….. please do it Texas- Angels Fan
lmao i somehow got him confused with Santana Ervin
Ha!! Somehow i got him confused with Ervin
I was thinking…Erv can’t break into the mid 80’s???No wonder he hasn’t been signed yet.
brilliant!
On the Mulder deal….do most teams do agility drills for the pitching staff? I threw in College and don’t see where a starter would benefit much from that…i understand a position player though.
“Don’t judge him on this workout necessarily.” True. But it makes me wonder why he worked if this was the result. Might he have waited? What do teams have to go on? Faith that he may crank up the speed on the fast ball?
Doc Halladay retired with better stuff.
Not much better, but better.
Even if he was throwing ‘free and easy’, Johan has lost all his power.
He is NOT EVEN CLOSE to ready yet!! Wait until June or July and then make your judgements
Santana hasn’t pitched since August of 2012 and Halladay missed most of 2013. What are you using to gauge the idea that Halladay’s stuff was not much better?
I wonder which Santana will sign first….. probably Johan at this point.
If Ervin is still asking for $100mm over 5 seasons… It would have to be Johan
That phenomenal change better be around 68 mph if he doesn’t want to get lighted up
that better be a 81mph changeup
To be fair, he is still just starting up into recovering his strength fully.
To be fair, he is still just starting up into recovering his strength fully.
If Johan can get his fastball back up to 87-90, Theo/Jed should take a look. If their willing to give Hammel 6 mil for a possible B/C prospect return at the deadline.. why not sign Johan in May for 2 years/10 mil. Worst case scenario, he has similar numbers to E-jax and best return is a B/C prospect.. food for thought..
Thats a bit much. There is no way his worst case is E-Jax. He had a major injury.
Jackson’s contract is a major injury 🙂
2 yr/$10 mil? This is a joke, right?
Worst case under that is that he gets DFA’d and they lose 10 million. Which shouldn’t be a problem since the chances of him getting a multiyear deal are zero.
Worst case he’s 2011/2013 Johan and doesn’t throw a single pitch. That’s a lot worse than E-Jax.
2/10 is too much, I would expect he signs a minor league deal.
Detroit is looking for a #6 starter, he sounds like he is nothing more at this point.
Detroit ought to be looking for another solid reliever to offset Joba if he continues to be as bad as he has been
Detroit ought to be looking for another solid reliever to offset Joba if he continues to be as bad as he has been
If the velocity doesn’t get up to at least the high-80’s, it’s time for Johan to call it a day.
He should get close to that. It sounds as if he’s at the same pace of recovery this time as he was the last. At the end of the 2011 season he rehabbing and in the upper 70’s, low 80’s so this report sounds about right. If his rehab goes well he’ll probably end up in the 86-88 range as he did before.
At that speed, might as well learn to start throwing a knuckleball.
Knowing him, he probably could!
81 mph yeah that’s bad. I mean 88 you can do with but 81 no chance hitters would love hitting against him.
I agree, it is a very long shot but it is early in the process. He has to get up to high 80’s in the next month or two to get a contract. He certainly knows how to pitch and can probably be of some value to a team making a playoff run as a #5 starter if he can throw 88MPH and get movement on the ball.
I know this is an overplayed issue this year but…… come on, Johan will never pass the O’s physical
for a minor league deal he would certainly
maybe but his arm has to be in terrible shape if he can’t top 81 MPH.
If they just want a minor league SP to stash at AAA with ANY upside, why not Dontrelle Willis, Bazooka Joe, Bonderman.. The 1st 2 have a chance to help at least and bonderman can even eat innings, plus none are injured.
Santana sounds like he is working in Jamie Moyer territory, with no proof that he will ever get any increase in velocity. He was really a 2 pitch pitcher before when he was healthy, because both were so good.
I’d be wary of getting into any bidding war over this guy with regards to a 40 man roster spot, even guaranteed money beyond half a million.
Come on people… it’s early on in his rehab process. He has no arm strength. I’m sure he doesn’t expect to throw int he 70s in MLB… durrr.. drool
Plenty of pitchers have tried. Barry Zito did it for 7 years, Jamie Moyer did it for 5 years (in the PITCHf/x era).
I would think his big concerns are throwing “free and easy” (as they say), not having the discomfort he had in January, and feeling good in the next few days and weeks. If those criteria are met, he can build up arm strength and look to pitch mid-season. He is less than 11 months from surgery that has an uncertain timetable. If he feels 100% and is full strength in July but can only hit 81 or still doesn’t feel right at that point, then we can talk about him being done.
Shoulder issues are never a good thing. He may be done.
maybe the cards will take a look, with Garcia hurting and maybe missing 4 a while.
I can throw 85mph. Can I get 1 million?
Sorry but Tracy McGrady throws 88.
With downward plane.
a major league club will be lucky to get him.
I’m pretty sure Johan was just showing teams he can throw without pain at this point. it was a showcase. He wasn’t going 100% and giving his all and the article even said he’s not “rushing things” at the moment. If he can keep getting his velocity up, he’d been a nice addition to a team later on. Heck, he could go back to being a lefty out of the pen if his change-up is still nasty.
Pedro Feliciano averaged 83.5 MPH on his fastball last year and he got some people out. If Santana can get it into the 87-88 range, he could be a #5 somewhere.
Johan was one of the best pitchers in baseball. It sucks that he’s been injured the last couple of years.
implying that santana could pass the toughest physical in the majors
Barely Zito
Please johan sign with the rangers please
C’mon Johan become the Tigers second lefty reliever.