3:45pm: Vasquez tells CSNBayArea.com's Andrew Baggarly the Giants made a three-year offer in the $40MM range on Friday, which was rejected out of hand. Vasquez will remain in Arizona through the Giants' season-opening series against the Diamondbacks and is open to continuing negotiations, but he doubted anything will happen before Opening Day. "I don’t think in 24 hours they’ll jump from three years to five or six," Vasquez said. "But I know for sure that after the All-Star break, if nothing happens, then it’s on to free agency."
2:36pm: Pablo Sandoval's agent, Gustavo Vasquez, told the Giants on Saturday his client wants at least five years and no less than the $90MM the club gave Hunter Pence in his extension last September, reports Henry Schulman of the San Francico Chronicle. As a result, the Giants do not expect to come to terms on an extension before Opening Day. Schulman writes Sandoval's camp is still formulating a strategy as how to approach talks from here: negotiate in-season or opt for free agency, if they can’t strike a deal before Opening Day.
"I don’t know anything about it," Sandoval said about the extension discussions. "I’m focused on baseball. I leave all that to my agent."
President and CEO Larry Baer has indicated in the past there's the entire season to work out a deal with Sandoval. GM Brian Sabean had said he would be open to a contract extension based on what the 27-year-old looked like in Spring Training because of all the work he did over the winter to get into shape. Sandoval, who has battled weight and conditioning issues throughout his career, spent time on the disabled list last year for a foot strain, but still managed his highest games played total (141) since 2010. Kung Fu Panda hit .278/.341/.417 with 14 home runs in 584 plate appearances in 2013, but with the lowest isolated power mark of his career.
Deserves it too. Lots of teams need third basemen, no need for Panda to settle for less before FA.
I agree. Third base is definitely a thin position right now IMHO and Pablo has the potential to be a really great player. I also really like the future of the giants with a core of Posey/Belt/Pablo/Pence.
What? Third base is loaded right now in the mlb
And potential?
We are talking about him signing an extension for his age 28 season….and he’s gonna need to move to first at some point.
I’m not saying 5/90 isn’t worth it here. But this isn’t a mobile, 23 year old third basemen at a weak position.
Posey is gonna need to move to 1st too. They can’t have 3 players playing the same position.
They could, but it would look pretty goofy. Kind of a fun image.
Posey has the possibility of moving to 3B, or maybe even 2B long-term, ala Biggio. He’d never be a GG-type at either of those positions, but he could probably play decently to let his bat look great (especially at 2B)
Sandoval has underperformed except for two years of his career. Yes, he has “potential,” but I would not overpay for that, I would pay for performance.
YES! Finally someone with common sense.
Evan Longoria, Adrian Beltre, David Wright, Manny Machado, Ryan Zimmerman, Josh Donaldson, Kyle Seager, Chase Headley, and Matt Carpenter beg to differ about third base being thin. Everybody except Seager on that list has at least one recent 6+ win season, including five of them hitting that plateau last season alone. In fact, third base was so deep that there were five third basemen in the AL last year that warranted All-Star selections in Donaldson, Machado, Beltre, Miggy, and Longo. Of course Miggy has now moved, but it’s still super deep. Chris Johnson, Aramis Ramirez, Todd Frazier, Juan Uribe, Nolan Arenado, and Pedro Alvarez are all probably average-or-better overall players, too.
I’m going to assume I’m the only person who read the headline and thought he wanted to be paid in British pence…
Hahahaha, that’s awesome. I’m going to guess yes
I was thinking more along the lines of 6 Pence myself….
Seriously.. Outside of many SFG Fan’s fondness for him, I see Jed Lowrie next off season, who also has the arm (and defensively better at 3b than SS) as worth at least as much as Sandoval, ditto JJ Hardy as a SS. Sandoval might have lost weight THIS spring, even have another good 2015, but no guarantees he will keep it off and no contractual stipulations will ever be iron clad enough and pass MLBPA scrutiny.
I can see SF trying a 3y at the longest deal during the season, or both getting together when the season is over and Sandoval sees his market is nowhere near 90m.
Sandoval could hit 90 million if he steps it up a notch, but there’s no reason for the Giants to meet those kinds of demands now.
Yeah, and the Giants want Pence like production from Sandoval….we don’t always get what we want.
Sandoval has produced as well as Pence. Over the last 3 seasons, Sandoval’s slash .346/.468/.815 OPS+ 132, while Pence’s slash was .342/.470/.812 OPS+ 125. Over the last 2 seasons, Sandoval was .341/.430/.771 OPS+ 121, while Pence was .329/.454/.783, OPS+ 119. Both are below average defenders, but Sandoval plays a premium position and Pence does not. Sandoval is also entering his age 27 season, while Pence is entering his age 31 season. Sandoval is well within reason to ask for a similar contract as Pence.
Panda has also been injury-prone while Pence has not
I agree. If not for injuries, I don’t even think this is a debate. Over the last 3 years, Pence has 10.6-11.2 WAR in 476 games, while Sandoval has 10.3-10.7 WAR in 366 games. When on the field, Sandoval has been the superior player, but even accounting for his time missed they have very similar value. Also, looking at Pablo’s injury history, the injuries in 2011 and 2012 were broken hamate bones in each wrist. Those aren’t weight related and since they remove the bone, won’t be broken again.
In terms of raw skills, he is clearly superior to Pence, I can’t argue with you there. But without the luxury of a consistent DH in the NL, the team is being hesitant. Most of his issues have not been weight-related yet, the problem I think the team sees is that you never know when they are going to start, so making a long-term commitment is riskier with him than a guy like Pence, who takes care of his body better. As a fan of the team, I don’t see how he has much of a future with the team with that asking price, unless he has the best year of his career
Pence has been consistently healthy & productive his entire career, with only 1 bad year (2012). You can’t really say that about Pablo.
so… 4yrs + 1 option for about 75-80 then?
That’s still way too much without a huge 2014 season from the panda
Are you joking. Even with his weight, Pablo will average around 3-4 WAR a year. $15 mil a year is a discount.
Really, dude? He’ll average that? A WAR number he has hit 2 times in 5 full seasons in the majors, neither of which being 2012 or 2013, where his health has been sub-optimal? The Giants want to keep him for a reasonable price. The fact they seem to have all but broken off talks for the time being should tell you how reasonable that insane offer he threw out is. And the comment I was replying to said 75-80 over 4 yrs, which comes out to a little under 19 mil per year average. The team’s offer was for 13 mil and change over 3 yrs, a pretty sizable difference…
He’s literally averaged 3.3 WAR/season in his career, and he’s 27. It’s not much of a stretch to think he’ll average 3-4/season over the next few years.
I think you also need to take into account the market for 3B in next year’s FA class (slim to none). And yes, it will require a solid, complete season from him to get around that.. I was merely suggesting what the compromising deal may be.
I probably should have mentioned this in the last post, but my stance on it is that with out a healthy, don’t-gain-a-bunch-of-weight season, Pablo may not be staying at 3B for much longer. It was only a few months ago that there were serious concerns about his ability to man the hot corner for longer than a season or two going forward. A strong (and slim) 2014 changes those feelings, but right now I just can’t see an NL team paying up like that for him without the fallback option of the DH.
$90m? Ha. That was my daily laugh.
First offer was a low ball offer and of course he rejected it. The 3 year deal would be easy to get from any team during FA. The giants should let him test because in the past they have over paid so let the other clubs set the price which I don’t see anyone going crazy for him unless he has a MVP year.
Their career numbers are pretty similar so it’s not hard to see where he’s coming from. Pence has been more consistent with the power and more durable, while Sandoval strikes out less. Neither one is a defensive standout.
I think the FO is more concerned over his inconsistency with weight and staying healthy.. If he rakes this first half, he’ll likely get close to what he’s asking
Honestly, I wouldn’t pay Sandoval. He’s been a player who peaked years ago and can’t stay on the field because he always fat and out of shape. Suddenly it’s a contract year and Sandoval shows up in the best shape of his career and demanding an extension? Please. As soon as he gets that money, he’ll gain 40 lbs. Buyer beware.
His injuries in 2011 and 2012 were broken hamate bones in each wrist. That’s not an injury caused by being fat and out of shape.
Let him walk. Giants don’t need him. They didn’t in 2010 when they won the WS. This is only his second time in his career with the Giants being in shape. He came to camp in 2011 in phenomenal shape but quickly put the weight back on and has since then, going on and off the disabled list, and inconsistent at the plate (batting). He’s not worth the risk and all the panda hat’s. Giants are already tied up in 127 million dollars for 12 players next season. Don’t need to add another 15-20mil on top of that just for Pablo. Let some other team deal with his problems and antics. If he can’t even keep himself in shape to help his team, then hes obviously showing no respect or regard for his team mates. All he cares about is money and food. He’ll be a DH at some point, so let the Yankee’s or Red Sox snatch him up. Give us the Draft Compensation Pick and let him walk into the abyss.
What is baseball coming to?
I think Sandoval is being a little unreasonable with these demands. He’s possibly not even top-10 at third base- Carp, Wright, Longoria, Machado, Beltre, Seager, Headley, Donaldson, Zimmerman, and Pedro Alvarez are all either currently better, more consistently better than Panda’s lows (Seager) or very possibly better going forward (K-Dro)
The 2014-15 third base class is an interesting one, with no
obvious super stars but with some sold middle-depth which can range anywhere
from “cheap” to “middle expensive”. Names such as Alberto Callaspo, Chase
Headley, Donnie Murphy, Aramis Ramirez, Kelly Johnson, and of course Sandoval
represent the best FA options. Honestly, of those I would rather have any of
the other options, other than maybe Callaspo. Just an idea to float around, but
the organization’s #1 position prospect is Joe Panik, a second baseman. Marco
Scutaro has logged almost 900 innings at 3B, or just under 100 games worth of
3B. If his arm is still strong enough, I would move him to 3B and give panic
the 2B job. This is, of course, in 2015, after letting Pablo Sandoval walk.
Decent idea? Especially if it’s a foregone conclusion that Both he and Posey
will need to be 1B eventually, with Brandon Belt maybe moving to LF. Like I
said, just a thought
You’d rather Kelly Johnson or Donnie Murphy than Panda? I could see A-Ram, and I agree with Headley, but I disagree with Murphy/Kelly.
I will admit that neither is as quality a player that Pablo Sandoval is when he is at his best, however I would rather have a more athletic, scrappy player with a slightly lower OBP than someone who has, for several years now, shown a lack of a strong work ethic and to me, that equates to a lack of passion to succeed. Kelly Johnson will be popular next winter after a full year of aiming at the Yankees short porch in right (yes I understand that AT&T is quite the opposite), and I feel that Donnie Murphy made some key adjustments with the Cubs which resulted in a much better player. I will openly agree that I am probably in the minority on this one and could totally end up being wrong.
He always looks out of shape and certaintly is not a good defensive third baseman. He has always been fat but comes in shape at camp asking for extension. Hmmm something tells me as soon as he gets four-five years, he will gain those pounds right back. All that weight while diving and jumping at third base cant definitely be good for you.
As a Dodger fan, having Panda leave Frisco seems like a very good idea.