We already rounded up some of the fallout yesterday regarding the complicated Adam LaRoche retirement situation — see here and here — but there’s continued intrigue surrounding the White Sox. Here’s the latest:
- Union chief Tony Clark has “indicated” that a grievance could be considered on LaRoche’s behalf, according to Andy McCullough, reporting for the Chicago Tribune. Clark says he hasn’t spoken with LaRoche and suggested that he is waiting for more facts to emerge before deciding on a course of action. “The question becomes when a player makes a decision to retire, that means one thing,” Clark said. “If there is a discipline involved, that means something different. We are 24 hours removed from everything that you are aware of. And I can suggest to you that we are likely aware of a little bit more, but aren’t in a position to suggest what tomorrow is going to look like, as a result of what happened yesterday.”
- Adam Eaton, the club’s union player rep, said he has been in contact with the MLBPA regarding a possible grievance, Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times reports (links to Twitter). Per Eaton, LaRoche told him that his son’s locker room presence was a part of his agreement upon joining the organiation. He added that players hope to meet with Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf in the coming days.
- There are reports suggesting that some White Sox players did complain to higher-ups about the presence of children in the locker room — see this tweet from CBSChicago.com’s Dan Bernstein — but third baseman Todd Frazier contests that fact in a comment to Bruce Levine of 670thescore.com (via Twitter).
- Ace Chris Sale, meanwhile, says that his concern is that president Kenny Williams has given the club varying stories about where complaints came from — players, coaches, or Reinsdorf — per Colleen Kane of the Chicago Tribune (Twitter link). The star lefty had very strong words for Williams, telling reporters that he and his teammates were “bold-faced lied to” by Williams, as Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports.
- As for Williams, he declined to comment on the matter further. He tells Levine that it’s “time for us to get to work.” (Twitter link.) Buster Olney of ESPN.com rounded up anonymous reactions from some of Williams’s peers, providing some interesting insight from other organizations.
Oh for cryin’ out loud, let’s get past this. The White Sox need to set the same rules for everyone and just move on. LaRoche needs to see past his own narcissism and do right by his kid, who is NOT being well served by hanging out in an adult environment for half the year. Grow up, Adam!
Doesn’t sound like Adam is the one who needs to grow up. It seems he decided family is more important than baseball, and he retired, and is ready to move on with his life. We haven’t heard him give any interviews complaining or calling out anyone.
Please. Grown-ups do what’s best for their kids, which is NOT the same as “having him around all the time for six months.” In fact, it’s the opposite. And that’s not even considering that putting a 14 year old in a quintessential adult environment like a locker room full time is borderline abuse.
There’s something going on here that goes WAY beyond this kid. LaRoche is an effed up dude who’s obsessive about his son (not his daughter or wife, by the way, who apparently are stuck at home). This is weird and not at all healthy.
Abuse???? Get real.
seam you need to get real. If having his kid in the clubhouse meant so much to him that he had it included in his contract, then violating that right should have been met with the exact consequence it did. Id wager he could have the contract voided and sign with a team that dont think having a kid (provided hes well behaved) around is a bad thing. its not like he joins them in the showers for cryin out loud.
He is a really bad baseball player now, and for that reason–not his kid–i hope he can void the contract and play for another team in the Al Central. Or stick with retirement.
Laroche was always in the clubhouse with his dad so he wanted his son to be able to experience it too.
Look up adam laroche e3 meats twitter page
How is it narcissism? They had a gentlemens agreement. Kids have always been in clubhouses, where do you think batboys hangout? The players liked the kid and all reports are that he assisted with cleaning and such which is what a lot of batboys do. The kid is also 14 years old and is probably (going by Adams comments) gearing up for some kind of career in baseball.
It’s narcissim because he quit on the team over some dumb misunderstanding. And gearing the kid up for a career in baseball? Since when is an organization and senior management responsible for that even if it is a gentleman’s agreement. No other workplace is set up like that, let a lone a multi-million dollar franchise. This whole thing is a farce and it was started by Laroche who quit over something so petty.
What “misunderstanding”? Telling a player that his kid can be in the clubhouse as a condition of his contract and then reneging on that clause halfway through the contract is not a “misunderstanding”.
What other workplaces outside of MLB, NFL, NBA, etc pay people millions of dollars to play a game? Baseball is such an outlier for this and many other reason that you can’t compare it with ‘office jobs’.
This is such a weak argument and I hate when people bring it up in this LaRoche case.
There is significant disagreement about whether the kid was part of contract negotiations. LaRoche had no other major suitors when he was signed. He didn’t have any leverage. There may have been a vague verbal agreement to “let the kid be in the locker room” that has been abused by LaRoche by making it into a full-time babysitting arrangement. Management is quite clear on this point.
If Adam Laroche had on leverage then how did he get two years 25 mllion? Do you know how stupid that sounds? Abuse? Do you know what abuse is? It’s clear you have never been around a professional
It is not petty at all if he has been doing it for five years and it was agreed upon when they sign. Also you are just basing your views off nothing. All the reports beside from Williams have Laroche being a great guy and father and his son great too. What other jobs do you make 10-15 million a year and you are not your own boss? Not very many. He literally makes more then the guys above him beside the owner. Baseball is a gentlemens game, and a handshake matters.
Agreed! It literally makes no sense. I mean look at how much Laroche makes compared to his ‘bosses’.
No its the same thing, your employer pays you a large sum of money for your services. If your employer feels that a distraction is causing your bad performance than employer has right to address it. The kid was not banned, the kid was not bad mouthed. Williams just asked laroche to dial it back. I agree laroche has every right to retire. But for every one to be bashing the sox organization is wrong. They didnt force him to retire. The rest of the team needs to focus on the season or my family is going to boycott them. Ill end my season tickets, it ridiculous.
Do you really think the contract strictly stated the amount of dates (162 ballgames, dates, etc) that the kid could be there? Obviously he didn’t state that he’d be there EVERY SINGLE DAY, which is excessive. Thus grey area for a misunderstanding between management and the player. If he did state it then the club still has a right to ask him to “dial it back” not completely restrict the kid but ask him to limit a kid being in a grown man workplace.
I believe Williams has every right to ask laroche to dial it back. This team for better or worse is trying to be competitive this year. If he tought that laroche having his kid there less would help him focus and improve on his horrible season last year then im all for it. The white sox were set to pay him 13 million, them wanting improvements on their return is only natural.
I respectfully disagree. Laroche made the issue of a his son staying in the clubhouse a big deal when he signed. The white sox agreed.
I’m genuinely curious how his baseball career is going if he’s with the team in Chicago all summer. Where does he play?
No idea if the kid plays ball. Meant it more in the way of maybe scouting or front office or all the other tons of jobs in baseball. Probably doesn’t care too much because he know’s Drake and his family are all set.
I meant that more towards the reports that even KW mentioned about Drake being a possible player in the future.
We’re missing some info here….something isn’t being said yet. Be interesting to hear why some complained to KW, but so many are vocally supporting LaRoche. Just a media circus at this point, and I’m not sure it was even mishandled yet by KW. It’s LaRoches retirement response that is garnering the attention. Reports are that KW asked him to cut it back…I don’t know how it was put…but it could be logical to ask that..even after a possible gentleman’s agreement. LaRoche went all or nothing here. He chose his family, props to him.
While it’s true that kids have “always been in the clubhouse,” it has NEVER been to this extent as far as I know. He’s there literally every single game (and practices too as far as I know). That’s absolutely ridiculous.
Listen to the people being interviewed that talk about “growing up in the clubhouse” and things like that. Every single one of them says that they were in the clubhouse WHEN THEY WERE OUT OF SCHOOL, whether it be for spring break/spring training, home games during the summer, or weekend games on the road. Not one person has said that they’ve seen (or been) a kid in the clubhouse EVERY SINGLE DAY. It’s amazing that people miss this fact and compare the situation to other organizations. Other organizations don’t have to deal with this crap because they don’t have players as ridiculous as LaRoche.
The white sox shouldn’t have agreed to it then. Maybe if they wanted to change it they should have done it in a better way and during the off season. I can see both sides of this, but if my employer agreed to a stipulation in my contract and then suddenly changed it I guess I may have a issue with it as well.
Every veteran player gets to have rules all his own. Some get charter flights for their families, some get suites on the road, some like Jack Morris don’t even have to attend games they are not playing in. That has been a given in baseball pretty much forever.
If the team agreed to allow Drake in the clubhouse when they signed LaRoche and its pretty obvious they did, whether verbal or written, they need to abide by their agreement. Period.
It’s obvious from the players reactions to this that they back LaRoche 100% and feel that Williams has wronged LaRoche and broken his agreement with him.
If Williams wanted to sabotage the White Sox season before it even began, I don’t think he could do it much more effectively than undermining the players confidence in the teams promises to them.
If an organization signs a contract saying they agree to something, they should be expected to follow their agreement or receive the consequences.
As I said yesterday, if the White Sox told Laroche when he signed that he could have his kid around whenever he wanted (as some have reported) then it’s complete BS that they backed out of that part of the deal. If that’s true, I’d sue if I we’re Laroche.
I wonder if it’s possible that irreparable damage occurred to the relationship of Kenny Williams and Chris Sale? As fall out from this situation IMO it’s possible that the White Sox will have to move Chris Sale to improve team chemistry. If they do trade him my Sox will be one of the leading contenders to acquire him considering all of the young talent we have in the organization.
Regardless of all of that though, I’d like to wish Adam Laroche a great time in retirement!
I highly doubt this would force them to trade Sale. It seems most of the major players agree mostly Laroache. So far I’ve heard Eaton, Frazer, Sale have all spoken in Drake/Adams defense and reports are that Hahn and Ventruea also disagrees with Williams.
You’re probably correct. Just trying to analyze the situation from a variety of different perspectives and possible outcomes.
No you are not. You are trying to see it from the Red Sox perspective like you do every single story. So obnoxious. Please go away.
I’m not going to say anything bad, I know you’re young and possibly can’t grasp adult working relationships. Please don’t take that as a slight. It’s just not WWE where one thing always leads to a major roster shuffle and good guys and bad guys. Professionals get the job done. The A’s of the early 70s were hardly on speaking terms and won 3 world series titles.
Fact is….every team will face internal strife of some kind..or most will….just that Williams showed an amazing ability to let it hit the media. His lack of control is the real issue.
No doubt, the amount of raw talent in the Red Sox organization was first and foremost in Sale’s mind when he made the complaint. Perhaps he thought he could induce a trade to the Promised Land?
I don’t understand your post, why would Chris Sale be thinking about the Red Sox when he is sticking up for his teammate?
I think he’s mocking you with sarcasm.
Haha i love good sarcasm
Nothing like drumming up something that doesn’t result in on field results. Sure it could cause some issues in team chemistry but whether his kid was allowed in the clubhouse every day or not, it’s not going to help out the team. LaRoche had a craptastic year last year, so maybe having his kid not come to work with him every day will do him some good. You know, concentrate on work?
Once again, no reason at all to include your Red Sox in this. I understand you would like him to be on your team, I’d like him on mine too. But for one the White Sox aren’t trading Sale and if they did, there are other teams with WAY more talent in their farm system than the Red Sox. Saying the Sox would be a leading contender to land him is just incorrect.
Not that I agree with the Red Sox homerism in the original post that started this. however the Red Sox do have one of the best farm systems and could easily be a leading contender, if they were to offer their top prospects ( and let’s be honest now that Dombrowski is in charge anything is possible)
Now if they trade Sale it won’t happen this year, he’s signed ultimately through ’19 (2 club options) giving the management time to try and repair the relationship with Sale, if it seems like there is no way he re signs with Chicago and they are still bottom dwellers in the Central then it is plausible they entertain the thought of trading him in 2019.
That is the sure way to get least possible return for him, by waiting out his contract and selling him as a rental. If the White Sox conclude that they won’t contend soon, trading Sale early on would net a much better package in return.
Just to play the speculation game, I think the Red Sox would need to offer something like Swihart, Owens & Devers just to get Sale at this moment. But if Sale had 1 year left on his contract I’d imagine the Sox would have to think long and hard about giving up a single one of them.
The White Sox should trade Chris Sale to the worst team in the league to set an example.
P. S. Go Phils!
Sale screamed at Williams to his face in front of reporters and other players and told him to stay out of the clubhouse then publicly called him a bold faced liar. I think that is pretty irreparable damage to the relationship.
Us White Sox fans don’t give a s**t about this at all, we just want to watch baseball.
I actually do care because LaRoche retiring is a huge improvement for the team—i am following this closely hoping the retirement stands and he doesnt come back to the team.
That is one of the purest White Sox fan statements I’ve heard. People…behold the White Sox fan. There’s always this “oh, now what the f**k!” soul to the best of em.
Im ready too, i have my flight booked for opener in oakland. And i have my season tickets in hand. But one thing i will say is. If this team starts slow, lets tear the mf down!!! These players talking about boycott? We should boycott them for creating this circus. We never get this much attention, and its all bad.
Circus and we don’t even get to see the lion tamers…only clowns shoveling elephant crap.
Wow. You’re flying to Oakland? 50 bucks you get to your hotel and when you tell them you’re from Chicago or wherever…they find out your in town for baseball..they’ll say, “that’s nice, are the Cubs playing the Giants?” You just give them the White Sox Southside stare.
LaRoche’s kid sure would look good in a Red Sox uniform, but my Sox would have to sign him to a minor league deal because Hanley Ramirez is a future hall of famer and perennial gold glover at first base.
I love this comment.
I suspect there will be radio silence after the team meets privately with Reinsdorf. “Put this behind us” and “focus on the team/season” talk from the players after an adult speaks with them. I will say, this is wildly entertaining in a prurient way. When you shine a little light inside that clubhouse, I think one can see one of the reasons why they have underachieved recently. Leadership vacuum. After this, I don’ know how anybody could expect much from the White Sox this season.
Bigpapi4ever is Drake LaRoche and this is all a ploy for his dad to play in Boston
Adam already played in boston. If I remember correctly it was about a 25 maybe 30 minute Red Sox Career.. Great times, gets a huge applause when’s hes in beantown, truly an American hero here.
My impression of Kenny Williams is that he has been on par with Ruben Amaro Jr. A couple big moves but generally disliked. Just my outsider viewpoint.
People's Republic of Chicago
That comment isn’t fair to people who are generally disliked.
Disliked because the organization cant scout or draft any good positional players at all. They sign free agents who end up being disappointments. Saying all that, as far as this issue goes. I believe the players are wrong. Laroche chose retirement, his kid was not the only factor in my opinion. Would he had retired if he was 32, had batted .300 and hit 30 hrs? I dont think so. Hes 36 with back spasms and hit .207 with his playing time about to be drastically cut. If the Williams felt that laroche needed to focus more on baseball to help the team win than he is doing his job.
I don’t think that verbal agreements are binding (Jeff?), but even if they are, it doesn’t seem that the union has any cause to file a grievance, for the simple fact that LaRoche himself chose retirement, which was not his only option if he truly felt aggrieved.
I’ll chime in here and answer your question. Please note that I have not seen the contract or read its provisions, but I do have a law degree and I am a practicing attorney.
Verbal agreements are binding. But when there is a written contract concerning the matter (laroche signing with chi) the written contract is considered to be a complete and final rendering of the terms of the agreement. Usually there is a clause in the contract stating just that. In this matter, we have a written contract and an alleged verbal agreement between the parties that was not included in the final written contract. This brings up the dreaded parole evidence rule and merger clause provisions for contract interpretation. ( here is a pretty decent and short explaination: http://www.lonnielaw.com/Contracts/bin/Chapter05A.html )
When I analyze this issue I look at several factors:
-Is this verbal agreement the type that I would expect to see included in the contract? It’s not unheard of that players include special provisions in their contract regarding their family.
– does it contradict any agreed upon terms of the written contract? No, it probably doesn’t.
-is the verbal agreement something that was important and discussed seriously between the parties during negotiation? I’m unsure.
– is the subsequent verbal agreement necessary to either parties principal performance of the contract? No – the principle purpose of the contract was for laroche to play 1b for 2 years and be paid 25 mil.
– how important was this issue to one or both of the parties? The more important the issue is to one or both of the parties, the more likely it should have been included in the written contract. It seems important enough to Adam that he was willing to leave 13 mil on the table which indicates that it was important to him and thus should have been included in the final written contract.
I am not adept on intricate provisions the players union grievance policy and procedure. But if I had to take a shot in the dark, base on the info that has been made available, I doubt that this would be a matter that the players union was confident in pursuing.
And meanwhile there was a presidential election and supreme court nomination facing the nation.
Obama is a Sox fan. He will understand.
“Time to go to work,” coming from Williams is pretty solid gloss over what he should recognize as at minimum a major personnel mistake on his part. Reminds me of Frank Drebin creating a crash scene in Naked Gun and waving to the aroused public, “nothing to see here!”
Ken Williams, you are the Frank Drebin of baseball. I anxiously anticipate your mangling of the National anthem and pat down of Dave Spiwack while the Angels are in town.
I wish I could upvote just for the naked gun reference.
Hey, it’s Enrico Palazzo !
Kenny Williams must kill the queen!
People's Republic of Chicago
Thank you for your service. Enjoy your retirement. Let’s play ball!
Sorry but if Adam was such a stand up guy his son would not be the center of this story. You don’t make a 14 year old or any kid for that matter the center of a controversy.
What could he do to change this? He simply retired? He hasn’t called for the MLBPA publicly. It’s not like he is parading Drake on Tv and saying he got screwed. Do you even know what Drake looks like?. because I don’t.
I agree 100%. Hes 36 had possibly the worst season of his career, was battling back spasms, was set to lose significant playing time. Yet no one is mentioning that as other possible factors. If he had batted .300 with 30 plus homers and was 30. Would he still retire? No
He didn’t. Never even mentioned it himself. Williams and his teammates did.
We know how players and their tweets go. His family first tweet didnt have any message. Or how about you look up his meat companys twitter page. Its bashing the sox left and right about the issue
There isn’t a tweet from E3 Chophouse since early January…
Retweets* basically promoting all the bashing. Politically correct bashing. In my opinion.
I stand corrected. There are two different Twitter pages. One for E3 Meats, one for E3 Chophouse.
And those retweets are about kids in clubhouse, family first, blah blah blah. Basically saying the kid is the main reason for retiring. They could just not retweet. Just stay quiet. In my opinion its just stiring the pot.
I have stood with LaRoche on this issue for most of it (but also see and respect where Kenny Williams is coming from).
That said, it’s pretty obvious LaRoche, or someone in his company, is using the E3 Meats Twitter page to be the “voice” in this. LaRoche’s personal Twitter has been quiet, but his company keeps retweeting and tweeting things that I wouldn’t consider helpful in any of this.
If he’s using a secondary account as his means to complain about this, I take issue with that.
Thats the way i see it too. Like i said laroche has every right to retire. The white sox have every right to ask for more focus out of their 13 million dollar investment, especially after last years results. But for it to turn so ugly is just ridiculous. Especially hearing about the sox players boycotting? Chris Sale attacking williams verbally? This has turned way uglier than it should have been. I invest my money, time , and for better or worse emotions into the white sox, and to be hearing all this just angers me. Especially when the team was set to have higher expectations. Laroche could have just walked away. I sincerely believe that if laroche was not coming off his worst season, was not set to lose significant playing time, was not battling back spasms, was 30 and not 36, he would not be retiring. I could be wrong, but i doubt it
You need to establish rules. If you change them without consulting the bargaining group, well you can see what happens, but Kenny should have known better. So that’s why I’m thinking Jerry is behind all of this.
Out of place Met fan
Not going to criticize another parent on how to raise their children where abuse or neglect is not evident. Nor am I in the know, as to what was previously agreed upon between player and management.
But this type of distraction is the last thing any team needs right before the season. And creating a rancorous environment in the clubhouse will not help attract nor keep FA in the future.
Yes this is definitely not what i was looking for. And hearing about them player thinking of a boycott only angers me. Chris Sale going off on Williams angers me more. Williams might have started this, but the players have made it the circus it is.
Yeah, if Sale is going to go off on someone let’s lay waste to the Royals batting order. It’s brotastic!
Kenny Williams is so foolish. Wait to see how LaRoche is playing at trade deadline. Dump him then, or release him and eat the 6 million. The problem goes away.
Yes, because laroche is gonna have suitors linning up to play a 36 year old who batted .207 with his kid by his side all season. All teams including the white sox would rather play internal options.
Last year the White Sox finished 19 games out of 1st place with the 15th ranked payroll in all of MLB. They messed up so much on the field that I stopped watching their games in May. Their 4 announcers – all ex-MB players – got tired of players not scoring on plays that the other team had given up on and thrown to their cutoff man, making countless mental and physical errors on defense, and not moving runners along at all. However, the players did choreograph a number of cute routines to use on the field. The end result to the above was perhaps the most disappointing and under-performing team in MLB in 2015 along with the finishing 26th in attendance while playing in the 3rd largest city in America,
Yet while 2015’s performance did not upset the players, they are outraged that one of their brethren was asked to cut back on his childs run of the clubhouse. It seems to me as a fan that these are pampered celebrities that put having fun and getting their perks far ahead of being prepared to perform in their job. The fans spoke loudly in 2015 as to how they felt in both attendance and TV ratings. They are about to speak even louder in 2016. The Cubs will own the Chicago market for the next 5-7 years. The Sox cannot play with the Royals, Twins or Tigers over the next 2-3 years at least. It’s time to break that team up and establish a professional culture – Chicago’s version of chicken-and-beer in the clubhouse.
The cubs have always own this town, with the exception of 06 after their world series. Honestly if this team starts slow im all for a complete tear down. They have some guys with great value that if they trade all of them, the farm system could change drastically. The white sox have always been a step behinf the league when it comes to scouting and drafting. Not to mention international signings. They need to invest in that instead of washed up players. Laroche in my opinion is their worst free agent signing ever. And this controversy is the main reason.
They started to tear it down in 2014, then reversed course in the off-season. I do not know why. A team without a core has never been built to win via free agency. They can get at least dozen quality prospects if they dump those players at this years trading deadline, the 2016-17 off-season, and the 2017 trading deadline. That would leave them with a great young core and a low payroll, at which time they could fill in holes with a few strategic free agents.
I agree 100% this team has always complained about attendance. If you built through the draft, and stop signing bad free agents you wont need to worry about attendance. Hopefully if they scout right and win in a few years, fans will actually go to games. I think sale, quintana and abreu have great value. Especially with the money and contract length they have. Im a season ticket holder who has always appreciated the sox half hearted attempt at competing. Its obvious its not working.
Well, be the second team in major city on the wrong side of town with a stadium that faces the wrong direction…with fans that are intense and demand a winner…and 26th in attendance happens.
They booted the ball with the new park. The only real hope they have is to rebuild a newer more intimate version of the Old Comiskey and undercut whatever they can from the Cubs as Chicagos real team.
There are lost tourists dollars. They own the city 81 days a year as the only team in town. Some people….dumb people…Won’t hop the red line to Sox 35th out of sheer bad pr for the area. Not that tv revenue doesn’t trump ticket revenue now.
Also Harrelson is bad juju…the reverse of Harry Caray when he went to the northside. They need a salesman…and people get the Hawk.
Love the Sox, but they need some marketing nuance. They need to be the Sinatra to that frat party they sell up on Addison
This reminds me of the fielders that catch a fly ball and rush to hand it to a cute kid they picked out in the stands. I love it when I watch their surprise as in panic they try to get the ball back from the kid after they see the opposing teams baserunners scampering around the bases and scoring because the nice guy player didn’t know that the ball he caught was not the 3rd out.
WELCOME TO THE CHICAGO BROWNS!!!
Whatever the case, KW wouldn’t have said dial it back just for the fun of causing an excrement-storm.
Where I work we can bring kids in, but it’s not supposed to be a regular occurrence and for some situations it’s prohibited completely.
Why? We have work to do. It can be unprofessional and in some instances wasteful. Nobody’s asking employees to stop loving or parenting their kids. I don’t get it.