The Mariners have been among MLB’s busiest teams this offseason, acquiring players like Jean Segura, Mitch Haniger, Drew Smyly, Jarrod Dyson, Yovani Gallardo, Danny Valencia, Carlos Ruiz and Shae Simmons in a long list of transactions. GM Jerry Dipoto stresses, perhaps unsurprisingly but in strongly worded language, that those moves have been made with a clear goal of winning in 2017, according to Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune.
“I’ll say it as plainly as I can,” says Dipoto. “When you have Robinson Cano, who arguably had the best year of his career last year and is playing in his mid-30s at an All Star level; when you have Nelson Cruz, who’s roughly led the league in homers for three years running; when you have Felix Hernandez at 31, a former Cy Young Award winner who last year failed to throw 200 innings for the first time in about a decade; when you have one of the preeminent third baseman (Kyle Seager) in the league who can do a lot of things offensively and defensively, and you’ve committed at roughly $75 million annually for those players, you are in a `win-now’ mode.”
Those players are among the few remaining on the Mariners’ 40-man roster that Dipoto inherited when he took the team’s GM job near the end of the 2015 season. By my count, the only other players on the Mariners’ 40-man who remain from that time are Hisashi Iwakuma (who Dipoto re-signed in the 2015-16 offseason), James Paxton, Tony Zych, Mike Zunino and Shawn O’Malley.
“It doesn’t shock me,” says Dipoto of the Mariners’ roster turnover. “It wasn’t necessarily by design but, again, we have not done this with pandemonium in mind.”
Dipoto’s trades have included a large number of young players and prospects, but Dipoto suggests that he hasn’t mortgaged the Mariners’ future. He’s kept top prospects like Kyle Lewis, Tyler O’Neill and Andrew Moore, as Dutton notes. And while many of Dipoto’s trades have privileged short-term assets rather than longer-term ones (like the trade that bought one year of control of Dyson for four of Nate Karns), Dipoto points out that he has also made trades that have featured players at similar points in their careers (including, perhaps, the one that sent former top prospect Alex Jackson and pitcher Tyler Pike to Atlanta for young starters Robert Whalen and Max Povse). Dipoto further notes that he has acquired several players with limited service time, including Haniger, Dan Vogelbach and Ben Gamel (the last two of whom the Mariners acquired during the 2016 season), who could make an impact in the big leagues in 2017.
I don’t know if win-now mode means adding a bunch of role players and a few average regulars.. but okay.
Well Segura led the NL in hits last year so I wouldn’t call him a role player. And we definitely did not have enough to get one of the top pitchers available by trade so you tell me what they should have done.
Win now??? Not a single of the new Mariners [except possibly Segura] is a top tier contributor. Smoke and Mirrors.
They already have Cruz, Cano Seager and they added Segura. They were 6th in MLB in runs scored and I don’t think it would have made a difference if they were number 3 or 4 last year becuse they still would have had the same terrible defense. The defense was the focus this off season and it has definitely gotten way better. Win now doesn’t mean trade away every prospect for a couple home run hitters it means to make the positions of weakness better. And scoring runs was not a weakness last year so why add Mcutchen or Bautista to improve something that’s already a strength and make the biggest weakness in our defense even worst? And there was no way we could have traded for Quintana, Sale or Archer becuse we don’t have nearly enough for that so you can’t say that if they were in win now mode they would have traded for them because it wasn’t possible in the first place.
Think about it.
Segura is a plus over Marte.
Dyson is better defensively and equal offensively to Aoki.
Haniger is better defensively and could be just as good offensively as the Smith and Guti platoon.
The bar set by Lind and Lee isn’t set very high; it will at least be met by Valencia and Vogelbach. Zunino and Ruiz are just as productive as last year, with so much more potential and way better defense.
Now to the Rotation.
Gallardo will, at worst, be the same as Miley Leblanc
Smyly can easily match Walker’s production from last year
With the outfield defense improved, it’ll only help the rotation.
One could argue that the rotation is weaker, but it could be really good. Every other position has improved from last year.
Well said
I agree that there was no way they could’ve traded for Sale, but I think they could make a Quintana deal if they REALLY wanted to. They’d have to give up a ton (relative to their system), but I’d be willing to bet a deal with Lewis, O’Neill, and an arm would interest the Sox. That being said, I don’t see it happening.
I’m only for trading top prospects “if” and on if you get someone like Sale back with multiple club control years. Sale had 3 controllable years, so he costed more than Seattle could even offer.
Plus you forgot to mention we added 63 SBs in our #1 and #2 slots with Dyson and Segura! All in front of Cano/Cruz/Seager. Lots more Runs and RBI this year!
You’ve hit all the main points. This season is really going to get down to Felix. The M’s defense has improved, the offense could be better even thought they were 6th in MLB last year and the bullpen is going to have a full year of Diaz. They really have some nice power arms in that BP.
Felix’s BAA wasn’t bad last year he had issues with walking guys. If he cuts his walks back down he’s good to go.. Kuma, Paxton, Smiley and Gallardo are a solid rotation with Miranda, Heston and Moore for depth.
It’s win now!
You and 24TheKid completely nailed it
You meaning bradenbaseball16
-Dyson is better on D but with all his speed he still rates as below league average on O because of weak contact, low avg/obp
-Gallardo at worst will be the same as Miley/Leblanc….yet Gallardo pitched considerably worse than both of them last year.
-The Lind/Lee platoon hit 34 HR and drove in 97
-The Smith/Guti platoon hit 30 HR and drove in 102
SEA had no issues with offense but had big issues with SP depth. They did next to nothing to address the issue other than hope their rotation stays healthy. Is a Felix/Kuma/Gallardo/Pax led rotation WS material? No. Dipoto is following his MO in ANA and loading up on O and hoping for the best.
Thanks!
Boom
Segura?????
The starting rotation and 1B is still a question mark. It will either make or break their season but everything else looks solid.
How?? Our 1-5 starters are all experienced and we have multiple choices to fill in if injuries occur. 1B is a question, but, Vogelbach has been consistent throughout the minors, we have Valencia, and a couple utility guys with DJ Peterson on the 40 man in case lots of stuff goes wrong. There is also some but low candidates on the market if needed.
I believe we’re really deep and only need a couple of the youngsters to pan out and we’ll be solid. Injuries will be key….if we’re healthy we’ll be competing for the division/wild card.
because experience doesn’t = talent?
They’re talented….and have a previous track record of being successful….oh and got them for good prices. If we stay healthy….I’m projecting a 92-95 win season. Felix has something to prove, the bear has been pretty consistent, this will be Paxton’s break out(hardest throwing lefty starter), Smyly and Gallardo are fly ball pitchers coming to Safeco with a perfectly put together super athletic OF with GG in infield and 2 great options at Catcher. So tell me again why this won’t work??? Or are you just another never satisfied part time fan who doesn’t pay attention to minor league talent?
Because I dont just hand wave all the concerns with those pitchers and project 92 to 95 wins. Having something to prove doesn’t magically give a pitcher his talent back.
Maybe not, but you’re surely not looking at all moves, including the facts that both pitchers we acquired played in the AL east and are now in the AL west with Safeco 82 times. They will have an opportunity to pitch better based on environment and better defense.
The reason the rotation is a question mark is because we don’t know what we’ll get from them. They all could potentially be good, or all potentially be bad. The fact of the matter though is that the rotation is set. They may sign a guy to a minor league deal, but they also have a whole AAA rotation of replacement level or better pitchers (Miranda, who’ll probably be in the bullpen, Whalen, Martin, Overton, Heston, Moore) who can fill in as needed.
Boom
Boom? I’m not sure why you think that proves your point at all. A rotation with a bunch of question marks and replacement level fill ins? That’s doesn’t really scream 95 win team.
Has nothing to do with proving my point but the post was correct
Something everyone is missing?
Vogelbach and Haniger Both have 4 straight years of 400+ OBP in the minors. If we get anything above 325 OBP combined and I’ll be happy with all the other changes Dipoto has done! Lind last year was like 289 OBP lol. Lee was 316 OBP. I truly believe the Valencia/Vogelbach platoon will produce 34 HRs like the Lee/Lind platoon did, but in 2017 we are going to see a lot better OBP from 1B.
The only question mark I have is Vogelbach’s defense, but he made public last August that coaches were working hard with him on his 1B Defense, so We’ll see how that goes.
Yeah, good point
Agree
So why not go after Weiters now that his price tag has dropped? They have the cap room and a switch hitting offensive catcher would fit perfectly. Weiters is very much a good line drive hitter, perfect for Safeco. Zunino can be a late inning defensive replacement and take over in June when a Weiters goes on the 30 day DL.
Because Weiters isn’t really an upgrade over Zunino/Ruiz offensively and is a huge defensive downgrade from either of the two. There’s enough offense elsewhere on that team to compensate for any lack of it from the Zunino/Ruiz tandem.
We have Ruiz who is outstanding at Defense, and a great platoon/backup catcher for Zunino. We don’t need to spend on Weiters. We are set at Catcher for the year!
Cap room? Is there a cap I don’t know about?
I really disagree. Our farm system does lack people with a certain something, but what it does have are solid pieces that will fill in the bottom of the order and rotation. I think Dipoto’s keen sense for acquisitions will bridge the gap you all are dreaming about
Mariners should trade for CJ cron as a starter for 1b. then trade for starting pitching depth. maybe kazmir or McCarthy from the dodgers. the bullpen is fine, but need to shore up those positions
I think somebody just wants to Dealin’ Dipoto to add to his trade count
No and no. Why would we give up Monty to not give Vogelbach a go?? We have plenty of successful players to let our young guys play. We don’t need any more starters…we have 5 that are experienced and have had success plus 2-3 to fill in if injuries occur. Dipoto smartly filled our needs as well as added depth. No need for any more unless we’re decimated. You sound like the person who complains that we made the playoffs but wasn’t the #1 seed…something is never enough.
Their rotation really isn’t strong. They are counting on Paxton to continue his development and stay healthy enough to toss a season of innings, Iwakuma to continue being a slightly above average starter, and then they need Felix to stop falling off a cliff. What’s after that, gallardo? Yikes!
Ignore their 2016 seasons and this rotation looks extremely good. The potential is there, just no amount of debating will determine whether this rotation is good or bad until the season is in full swing.
Yes, because ignoring a full season is a great way to judge players, especially when it’s the most recent season…
I know. But you also can’t ignore two, three, five good full seasons either.
But, yea, ur right. This past season doesn’t make them look that good, which is why I’ll be paying close attention to them during Spring Training
Why would you look at 5 seasons ago’s data to give any sort of reliable projection for that rotation? A lot can change with a pitcher in 5 years (any number of years). like felix losing velo and becoming a less effective pitcher.
I really meant five straight seasons before this last bad one. Because to me, that represents consistency and that the last one could just as easily be an anomaly as it is a sign of things to come. Thanks for pointing that out so I could clarify.
unless that anomaly somehow caused him to lose like 3 mph off his pitches, I think it’s far more likely that his skills are just eroding as he ages. Felix is gonna be 31 and he has A LOT of miles on that arm. I’m not sure what you are expecting from him, he might be better than he was last year, but I don’t think you’re going to see 5+ win felix anymore. I could be wrong, but his diminishing velocity is probably not gonna help things.
I’m not expecting 5 win Felix, but I’d expect the 3 win Felix we saw in 2015 is plausible
So did Cano have a bad year last year?? NOPE, he had an off year the year before…guess what his consistency from the previous years came back
How much of an upgrade is McCarthy over Gallardo? I would rather have Gallardo.
Gallardo is healthy and tosses up a era of high 5. McCarthy is a cheaper expiring contract and when healthy, racks up kkks and if not, he would dominate in bullpen
does Tyler O’Niel make an impact this year …not sure having Dyson as a full time leftfielder is a good idea!
You’re kidding right? Do you know how to look at defensive stats??
I’m surprised they haven’t gone to the Mets to ask about Jay Bruce. Feel like they could match up on a trade.
Why? Bruce isn’t very good
Because the Ms are valuing an outfield with sure plus defense and potentially solid offense over an outfield with solid offense and a middling defense
Bruce does not fit at all. We do not need a power hitting lefty, and we do not need a liability in the outfield because we all know where big power bats that can play defense have taken us the last 16 years.
It’s kinda funny because jay bruce is almost exactly the type of player you would have expected the previous front office to go after.
Awww, come on he’s not that bad.
You must be a Mets fan trying to get rid of him…
Agree with both replies, No and hell no. We have a great defensive outfield put together to stop runs with the fly ball pitchers we acquired.
I don’t see any reason for us to want Bruce.
I still dont see how there any better than the Texas teams. Im sure there better than the angels and A’s. 3rd place i see
Texas has lost a lot and haven’t replaced what they lost. They won all of their 1-run games last year, so some could say that was pretty lucky, when Seattle lost many 1-run games.
Seattle shored up OF & SS defense, and currently has the top #1 ranked defensive OF in MLB. I truly think Seattle and Houston will be fighting neck/neck for the division spot, and the one that misses out will be a wild card.
Rangers needed Trumbo for 1B, but they still have a chance to land Napoli. That would push them neck/neck/neck with Houston and Seattle. But Angels lost Weaver/Wilson in their rotation and haven’t replaced them, Angels are old injury prone, and has no farm system to replace any type of injuries. A few injuries early in the season and Angels will be out of it again in 2017. Oakland let everyone walk without replacing anyone and I’m sure will hit 100 losses this year.
Texas lost a lot? Who? They also have a chance for a full season of darvish and and lucroy which is an improvement.
Ian Desmond
Mitch Moreland and ofc Prince Fielder not really an offseason loss but a huge loss to the 2017 season
And Beltre is a year older xD but when is that not the case dude is ageless
And we’re betting on Carlos Gomez returning to his returning to form -_-
Texas lost:
Carlos Beltran, Ian Desmond, Colby Lewis, Mitch Moreland, Holland
Texas Added:
Carlos Gomez, Tyson Ross, Cashner (All with issues)
Ian Desmond won SO MANY games for Texas last year. Desmond was the player that killed Seattle and prevent us from the playoffs in my mind. Beltran had an amazing 2nd half after being traded to Texas and they lost their 1B Moreland and his power.
Texas was very lucky last year and the only team that won like 100% of their 1-Run games. Seattle improved drastically 2016 on 1-Run games, but the improvements in having the #1 OF Defense in MLB, add top Defense at SS, and adding Segura/Dyson’s 63 SBs is gonna help Seattle pull off a lot more of those 1-Run games in my mind.
“Beltran had an amazing 2nd half after being traded to Texas”
lol don’t know what baseball your watching… Beltran left his bat in NY.
Why does everyone assume that the Rangers are going to be great, they’ve gotten worse this offseason while the Mariners have gotten better. They also won an insane amount of one run games last year and things like that usually even out. I see the division as Houston,
Seattle,
Texas,
Los Angeles,
Oakland.
Not to argue about the Rangers, Daniels has a knack of finding people late, like Ian Desmond… Just sayin it aint over till it’s over
Anyway keep in mind the Rangers had half a season of a recovering Yu Darvish last year this year I think will be return to form 🙂 the Rangers also had just half a season of Jonathon Lucroy, this season they will reap the benefits of trading the farm for him (much like Hamels 2015 v 2016). The Rangers called up Mini Trout… I mean Mazara late last year I don’t see him disapointing this year. And we’ve hired Chin Soo Choo’s wife to be on his case 24×7 so maybe he won’t slump the first half xD that last one is a joke HAHA!
Thats how I rank the AL West too. I think the division will be a toss up between Houston/Seattle with Houston as slight Favs if Houstons #1 & #2 SPs come back, but Keuchel is still rehabbing and hasn’t started throwing yet…so we’ll see.
Not if Houston still can’t figure out how to beat the Rangers.
So, basically the Mariners have been in “win now” mode for the past couple of seasons and haven’t managed to be on anyone’s radar so the rest of the league shouldn’t worry about them going forward. Thanks for the heads up.
If the Mariners were truly in win now mode, I’d have expected them to sign on more top tier major league contributors. At this juncture the only new player even approximating top tier would be Jean Segura.
Why does a team have to spend a lot on free agents?? This years free agents was terrible past a couple guys. We got better, that’s what counts, not having to spend a whole lot to do it either
I really wanted Edwin Encarcion. Cleveland is going to be deadly this year!
But Valencia crushes LHP, and Vogelbach’s OBP in the minors for the past 4 years is 400+ OBP. So that platoon should be hands down better than the Lind/Lee platoon.
don’t like the dyson move, we’ll see how everything gels together
Don’t see how the Mariners IMPROVED though, you don’t get something for nothing and imo all these trades have done nothing but cut away at team chemistry- if there is such a thing.
They gave up Walker for Segura (may be a bit overrated now BUT he was underrated previously…. and the Dbacks are dumb) and Haniger. They gave up Gohara (in the Mallex trade) and Yarbrough to get Smyly. As I’ll point out Dyson is just a replacement for Smith who they used to get Gallardo (a good arm but nothing but) and the others I don’t even know if they’re any good….
So basically it’s just been a typical offseason just one with a bunch of hullabaloo up in Seattle. Did I miss any? I’m just a rival fan not a mariner fan but those two (Yarbrough and Gohara) stand out to me as top prospects that they’ll miss. what they lost in Seth Smith they’ll get back in Dyson. and oh yeah Paul Blackburn… WHAT?? I REALLY like that dude. I mean I love Valencia but coming off a career year doesn’t scare me, but PAUL FRIGGEN BLACKBURN falls into your lap and you waste it on a flame player of the moment like Valencia?? Again I love Danny Valencia but he’s just blocking/ patroling with Vogelbach cuz he’s no Seager even the lesser brother.
I’m a Ranger fan (wish Paul Blackburn fell into OUR lap) so take this with a grain of salt but… I aint scared of the Seattle Mariners.
Well guess what, I “aint” scared of the Texas Rangers because all they are is a team that got lucky in a bunch of 1 run games last year.
oh you don’t have to be scared of the Texas Rangers lol you just have to take what they give you and like it xD
I suppose what came out of all this is Dipo traded two pitching prospects for one HE!! of a position prospect that’s closer to the bigs. eh nice… cute.
well Sodo Mojo basically thinks they traded their 6 (Gohara) and 10 (Yarbrough) for a 4 (Haniger)… maybe but everything else seems even steven to me! Let me go over this again v just MAJOR LEAGUE players (debatable in Gallardo’s case…)
The Mariners LOST Taijuan Walker they GOT Drew Smyly- even steven?
The Mariners LOST Seth Smith they GOT Jarrod Dyson- even steven?
The Mariners LOST Vidal Nuno they GOT Shae Smith- even steven
The Mariners LOST Nate Karns they GOT Yovani Gallardo even steven
who does that leave? Paul Blackburn (traded away) and Carlos Ruiz, Danny Valencia/ Vogelbach traded FOR. eh- just doesn’t scare me.
Even my Rangers I see losing Derek Holland and Colby Lewis like gettting Tyson Ross and Andrew Cashner. WTF? nothing going on here heheheh
Why are you so obsessed with Paul Blackburn????
him and his brother (not sure of relation… but I guess they’re both in the bay area now!) dance through my dreams. Paul is just avg I guess, but Clayton is so underappreciated
Ur missing the point. Dyson does not replace Smith. He replaces Aoki. An upgrade.
Segura an upgrade over Marte
Haniger, not Dyson, is the replacement for Smith, and he has much better defense and upside
Vogelbach/Valencia an upgrade over Lee/Lind
Even if as you said Gallardo and Smyly are even Steven to Walker and Karns (which I think could be argued either way) you are still looking at a better team than last year.
Sorry but I have to reply to your analogy. Here is what Seattle has this year vs 2016:
1. We will have 4 of the top CF defenders in our OF. Seattle will rank #1 in OF Defense in MLB.
2. Seattle was weak on the base paths in SBs. Seattle added 63 SBs just from Segura & Dyson alone. Seattle has lost more 1-Run games over the past 6 years than any other team in MLB. You add Segura/Dyson in the #1 & #2 hole in front of Cano/Cruz/Seager and majority of those 1-Run games will be in Seattle’s favor, especially with have a top Defender at SS now vs 2016 and top OF Defense.
3. Dipoto replaced SS Marte (1 HR, horrible Defense, though Marte ‘has’ potential) with Segura (20 HRs, 33 SBs, Top SS Defense). This was one of our biggest holes at SS.
4. Smith/Gutz defense dropped like a rock in 2016 and they were the worse corner OFers in MLB. Aoki wasn’t great and was below avg in 2016 too. Seattle replaces our Defense with Dyson/Martin/Haniger with Gamel as our 4th. WOW. Nothing is getting down in the OF!
5. The Smith/Gutz HR total was approx 30. Haniger was the sleeper in the Segura deal, and Haniger has averaged (like Vogelbach) a 400+ OBP for the past 4 years in the minors. Haniger has a FanGraph HR projection of 20 HRs, but that is always a ‘conservative’ number and tends to be low. Plus Dyson has a little power and is projected at 8 HRs. So Seattle didn’t lose any HRs by replacing Smith/Gutz with Haniger/Dyson. Yet Seattle did Gain the #1 rated OF Defense in MLB on these offseason moves.
6. Yes the Lind/Lee platoon provided 34 HRs, but Lind had a 289 OBP while Lee had a 312 OBP…not impressive. AND our 1B Defense and UZR was well below avg in 2016. We replaced with Valencia/Vogelbach. Valencia is a LHP killer, and VOgelbach also has major power & he also has a 400+ OBP over the past 4 years in the minors. So the power at 1B is pretty much a wash in 2017, but our OBP is gonna be outstanding from our 1B. The ONLY concern I have is Vogelbach’s defense at 1B, but since Aug 2016 coaches have been working hard with him on that I hear.
7. We have major power arms in our BP from both sides of the mound.
8. Our rotation is stronger than last year, there are some concerns, our pitchers will do well with improved OF defense & SS defense. Felix may not be Cy Young but still will produce no higher than a 3.6 era. Paxton is our breakout pitcher who’s our next ace. Gallardo/Smyly will produce a min of 2-WAR. So our rotation won’t be the best in MLB, but it will be strong.
The first 15 games in 2017 will be interesting since we are playing 7 games against Houston, and a series with Texas. The 1st 15 games will tell us a lot with regards to Seattle Defense, power, pitching!
I see Houston/Seattle fighting for the Division with Rangers coming in 3rd, then Angels, and A’s. Seattle has at least the WC in 2017.
Break up team chemistry?? It just got better….Segura was working out with Cano last off season before his breakout. Both starters we acquired are fly ball pitchers coming to Safeco…There’s buzz in Mariner world, no break in chem.
He’s been working out with Cano in the DR for the past 3 years.
With Dipsnot as a GM, a team has to be in win now mode. He will deplete a farm system in less than two years. Just look at the Angels.
As a fan of the game. I would be happy if my hometown team got some new players to improve the team. Calls for excitement in the AL West since a couple teams are hoping for upgrades and or injured players to better their teams. As some team will also do it to ameliorate there needs for the team.
Better? No question. Win-now? Let’s not go nuts. Starting pitching is still going to be a huge question mark.
How much of a question mark is Seattle’s rotation when compared to the other teams in the division. Who, besides Gallardo, are you worried about. Even if Gallardo was horrible, you’ve got Miranda who was awesome last year and even if he doesn’t work, you have Heston, Whalen, Povse, Moore, and Overton, one of which should work