Dusty Baker’s contract is up after the Nationals‘ postseason run is over, though his future as manager isn’t contingent on a first-round playoff victory, Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post writes as part of a reader mailbag piece (with fellow Post scribe Jorge Castillo). Nats ownership likes Baker and wants him to keep managing if he’s still willing and able, though an extension hasn’t been worked out since that just isn’t how the Lerner family handles business with managers. Baker told Janes and other reporters today that he was informed that “we’re gonna wait til after the season” to discuss a possible new deal.
Here’s more from around baseball as the Yankees are off to the ALDS…
- It is “increasingly likely” that Justin Upton will choose to opt out of the remaining four years and $88.5MM remaining on his contract, a source tells MLB.com’s Jon Paul Morosi. Upton’s outstanding 2017 season gives him a strong case to look for a larger deal in free agency this winter, though opting out doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll leave the Angels. Morosi notes that Upton could use the opt-out clause as a way to leverage an extension from the Halos, as C.C. Sabathia did with the Yankees six years ago.
- Power and outfield defense are both needs for the Giants this winter, though as team executives told reporters (including Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle and MLB.com’s Jonathan Hawthorne) today, the team won’t sacrifice the latter for the sake of the former. “We don’t want to get too far away from our game,” GM Bobby Evans said. “We’re a pitching and defense team. If we compromise too much in the area of power and give up to much defensively, that can hurt us as much as the benefit of adding the power.” A younger and more athletic outfield seems like a priority, and Schulman feels this might rule out a run at 31-year-old free agent Lorenzo Cain. In my view, Cain’s excellent glove would seem to make a good fit for the Giants, though his defensive metrics did decline (from great to “merely” quite good) in 2017.
- The Giants will look to add at all three outfield positions, as incumbent outfielders Denard Span and Hunter Pence could be in line for position changes. Span, according to manager Bruce Bochy, is “all in” about moving from center to left field. This wouldn’t seem to leave much room for Pence to move from right field, though Schulman suggests that Span and Pence could both share a position. That would be a very expensive solution considering that Span and Pence will combine to earn $30.5MM in 2018, though since both also have notable injury histories, a time-share could help keep both players healthy.
- Outgoing Royals pitching coach Dave Eiland looks like a candidate for the Mets‘ own pitching coach vacancy, Mike Puma of the New York Post tweets. Eiland has spent the last six years with the Royals and has some prior experience in the Big Apple, serving as the Yankees’ pitching coach from 2008-10.
The game is evolving.. this year set the record for most Hr’s. Every playoff time has at least one hitter with 30+ HR power… personally I’d prefer that over a defensive stud. Having a guy like Martinez or Upton would give us fans something to be excited about. we won multiple championships with guys like Ross, Huff and Burrell out there so I’m sure we can survive without gold glovers out there.
I am unconvinced that power will have as much of an effect on the Giants as it does on other teams, it is necessary to have some kind of upgrade to power but at&t is pretty much the only park that has been fairly unaffected by the jump in power that had gone on around the league, both home and away teams actually trended down when it came to home run balls @ at&t, granted maybe that means giants pitching did a better job at preventing homers while at the same time the offense struggled, but it is unlikely over the course of the season.
Definitely true. But half the games are spent on the road and I just watched JD Martinez destroy every park in the NL west which, besides coors, are pitchers ballparks.
While this is true, still I’m curious as to whether or not any upcoming free agents will choose to sign with the Giants.
I’m sure all the upcoming available power hitters are aware of the Giants pitching friendly confines…So, with that being said, might they possibly automatically shoot down signing with the Giants, solely because they believe playing half of their home games at AT&T park would negatively impact their power numbers??
It will definitely be an interesting story line to follow for the Giants, and if that trend continues, does anyone believe the Giants could possibly move in or shorten their fences in the future??
Then again, on the flipside, do flyball pitchers, strongly consider signing with the Giants, solely because it may help their ability to limit homeruns??
Like I said, it’s an interesting factor to consider and really think about…I’m curious what a player might have to say about the topic, both from a pitcher’s and a hitter’s viewpoint…
Arizona is definitely not a pitcher’s ballpark
Giants are trying to delay the rebuild which will put them even farther behind other teams in the NL west. They should skip spending any money this off season and go young even if it means trading some vets. There are to many holes on the team that needs fixing. They had a great run and should be proud of what they accomplished the last 6 years instead of grasping at competing with a very old team.
Chase Field is one of the best hitters parks in baseball. Better than Coors for HR in fact.
espn.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor
AT&T was the worst.
Gaints need gap to gap hitters and speed
High contact bats
Big ball park
Were you saying every playoff team? If so, I don’t think the Red Sox have a 30+ hr hitter this year.
That’s why they’ll be home watching the ALCS…
That’s true Red Sox lifer, however they lead all of MLB in using Apple watches.
“Schulman feels this might rule out a run at 31-year-old free agent Lorenzo Cain.”
As does the fact that the Giants were the worst team in the NL and are carrying at least $150 million in payroll into next year already. A splashy (pun) free-agent signing is on their list of needs right after a hole in the head.
They have also stated that they’re willing to go into the CBT penalty zone a fourth year running if they think it will improve their chances next year, so one might argue they *already have* a hole in the head.
Giants are way more than a couple of slick fielding outfielders away from being contenders again. They need bounce back seasons from their whole team outside of Posey and Panik. Posey needs to remember how to hit homeruns as well. They don’t have the prospects to trade for help, so unless they decide to spend a ton and go way over the luxury tax for a whole new outfield, bullpen and perhaps rotation help, and a new third baseman (which is in no way going to guarantee success in that division) I don’t see them being much better next year.
Now, first let me preface this comment by saying, in no way am I trying to troll or bash any Giants’ fans. I am honestly just curious and ignorant to how they suddenly have fallen so far.
It doesn’t seem like they have made a bunch of bone-headed trades…Nor have they wasted a significant amount of money on free agents that have been busts…I know some of their main core has aged and suffered through some injuries.. But they have always had another guy to call up and do well, seemingly when someone went down..Has there been a couple of bad drafts in a row, or something to deplete the farm system further??
They never really had an amazing bullpen, but they had a group of quality arms, which has seemed to disappear…Again, their farm isn’t very highly thought of, according to rankings, and from my understanding they are relatively cash strapped as well…
In a nutshell, can someone sum up what exactly has happened to the Giants to make them fall so far?? Everyone jokes about the even year success thing, but always year in and year out the Giants were contenders for seemingly as long as I can remember..Now, several analysts, fans, and media outlets are acting like the Giants are basically done for..
It is a real bummer seeing such a quality franchise struggle, but is this the typical media overreacting to one bad season?? And, again, how exactly have they gotten to this point??
I disagree with “never having an amazing bullpen.” Giants had very elite bullpens in 2010 and 2012. 2014 not as much but they had bumgarner the complete game starter and reliever. On a side note, i think the yankees will ball out in the playoffs and their bullpen will carry the pitching staff. Giants need a collective of relievers as quality as prime Romo/Casilla/Wilson/Affeldt/Lopez to be elite again (they obviously need more than that but this is huge IMO). They have some quality relievers now but I don’t think they have anyone as good or Nasty as those guys unless Melancon can recoup, and possibly Dyson on a good day. (Will Smith maybe). Giants can be good next year but they need to do some cool sh*t
The Giants’ sentimentality has dug this hole for them, in my opinion. Keeping Span in CF all year, playing Pence every day over younger OF options, and bringing back Sandoval to play almost every day in September are a few examples of poor decisions made by Bochy and co. that were clouded by loyalty to “their guys.” An aging core, complete futility with the draft in the past few years (though we’ll see what guys like Shaw and Ramos turn into), and Bochy’s outdated management style have been detriments to the team, but even with all that there seemed to be quite a bit of plain bad luck for them this year as well. They might push closer to a .500 finish next year, but with the NL West as strong as it is right now they ought to recognize that it’s time to rebuild. Some fresh faces in the front office and a new skipper really would get things back on the right track for them, I think.
Sentimentality or loyalty? I think it’s plain to see that if you perform for Bruce Bochy one season, you’ll get the whole of the next (often plus a pay rise) to prove you can do it again. The Giants have signed a lot of guys to contracts they didn’t merit because they want to be seen as a club where players are given the benefit of the doubt. Guys like Gillaspie, for example. Three in five earned a lot of guys decent contracts which they didn’t merit – to take nothing away from their play-off successes.
There’s a reason almost no player (with the possible exception of Nate Schierholtz) has a bad word to say about Bruce Bochy, and also that you never hear the old cliche about clubhouse cancers pertaining to the Giants. But the cost of that loyalty is an expanding payroll.
Hopefully the Giants fanbase will be patient enough to see that next season will be something of a write-off. Play Sandoval (who has actually looked okay and in relatively good shape) for free at third and spend whatever money you have on a young center fielder. Play Parker in right. Let the Span and Pence (who has been an all time great Giant) run out or trade them for minor semi-prospects to contenders.
I reckon 2019 could see the Giants challenging for the World Series again without too many insane trades, or blowing up the system.
Bruce Bochy, to me, remains the best manager in baseball. One crappy season doesn’t mean he’s finished or outdated.
There are a few reasons, but the main one is that because of the winning, the Giants never had great draft picks. And their drafting/scouting and player development has been abysmal. So they were left with an old roster, an old core, that was producing just enough to keep winning, although the red flags were massive. The bullpen was a good unit, no elite arm but many very good ones. Few teams keep a bullpen together as long as the Giants did, and we all know that relievers can be pretty unpredictable, from year to year and especially as they get old. The Giants were hamstrung here and there by bad contracts (Zito, Cain, Lincecum) but they hung in with Bumgarner and enough other starters to gdt to the ‘pen. Bochy is a terrific manager of bullpens.
If Cueto and Moore and Samardzija had just pitched reasonably well, they might have offset the loss of Bumgarner, but they all pitched poorly in 2017. Cueto and Samardzija should bounce back, but I have no idea what Moore is anymore.
While the pitching was in decline, the offense was stagnating. Denard Span has never been a great hitter, but until this year he was at least adequate. He’s not anymore, and his defense is unacceptable for center. Hunter Pence has long been a candidate for collapse, considering his extensive history of injury, and it’s caught up to him. Belt, the team’s best hitter outside of Posey, has had his career sidetracked by serious concussion issues. The Giants fell in love with Joe Panik, a very good defender who doesn’t contribute much with the bat; he’s a modern Jody Reed. Brandon Crawford finally showed some signs of aging. The team doesn’t have a third baseman.
So yeah, they got old fast, and didn’t have any young talent in the pipeline to replace the old guys. Plus, some teams feel an obligatiion to play their old, expensive players. Sunk costs are sunk costs; look at what the Dodgers did with guys like Crawford and Ethier and AGon, etc.- guys well past their usefulness who were making scads of money. They recognized them as sunk costs and treated them accordingly. Or even what Boston did with Sandoval…the Giants don’t do that. They kept trotting Zito out there for 7 years, although he was literally never good as a Giant. It’s an organizational thing, and a Bochy thing, and the Giants probably don’t have anyone better, but the slavish devotion to past-their-prime veterans is a hallmark of the franchise.
Well, Panik batter like .290 so… that’s not contributing with the bat?
Yea, Panik had a good bounce back season, in terms of average, and on base. Crawford was never a fantastic hitter, but consistent, and durable. He has great defense, and is a guy who will hit 250-260, with 10+ homers each year.
I agree with wiggysf. Panik batted very well in the second half slashing .308/.364/.447.
Panik is, in his career, exactly a league average hitter. That would be okay if the Giants got above average production from some other places on the diamond, but their outfielders don’t hit, their first baseman isn’t on the field enough and they don’t have a third baseman. An offense needs more than one great hitter.
Upton should have enough money by now but he will opt out in a few weeks and become a free agent.
He should? You know this for sure?
Upton opting out (I like that, “Upton opting out” could be a rational gamble by him. He just turned 30. The chances of him getting a second big contract at 34 are probably pretty small. Now is the time to add years (and guaranteed dollars). I don’t think he’s going to languish on the market, or, even in a slow one, not be able to recoup at least most of his guarantee.
He’ll almost certainly get more on the open market and he’ll get to pick his team again, which seems like an important factor considering his next contract will probably be his last major one. I also think Anaheim sort of would like him to opt out. They’re still stuck with the Pujols contract, Mike Trout will eventually need to be extended (his current deal ends in 2020) and that’s going to be record-setting (Trout will only be 28 then). And the Angels need some pitching, obviously. So it’s probably win-win for both sides if Upton leaves.
The Angels also need a legitimate run producer in the middle of the lineup. Trout is on base almost every game either with a hit or a walk. Trout hit over 30 homers. With a small RBI total for him. Why teams walked him with runners in scoring position and less than two outs. The Angels also had only one hitter finish the season with more than 80 RBI’s and that was Pujols. A lineup with Trout and Pujols finished dead last in the AL in slugging percentage. But despite Nolasco and Chavez in their starting rotation finished in the top 10 in pitching. But by all means the Angels should only add pitching and no hitters lol.
I think they need to sign 2 outfielders, and try and move Pence, or Span.
If he does opt-out what kind of contract do you think he’ll get?
6 years $132 mill is going to be my estimate based on nothing. Gets 2 extra years and an extra $44 mill.
Which kind of is based off something because thats his same contract 2 years at the aav. I would say thats a good estimate
Angels would need a left fielder and a second baseman as well as a third baseman. As far as pitchers, whoever doesn’t show up on the DL.
Maybe they should look into CarGo if they want to go the free-agent route. Giants could be interested in making a trade involving either Span, or Pence. At 3rd, I wouldn’t be surprised if I heard if they were interested in Todd Frazier.
I wouldn’t touch CarGo; do not want. His home/road splits are not good. On the road his BA -71 points, and his OPS is -242 points from what he hits at home. Denard Span hits better at AT&T than CarGo does on the road.
Again, the Angels better pray he opts out, and run away from him as fast as they can if he does.
They desperately need a 2B, 3B and up to 4 SP, plus almost a full Bullpen. If he stays they will have merely about 40 Million to fill them all.
The 22 he would save them + the 40 available would leave 50-55 available to better be spent on Pitching and Infield, as there are always productive OFs to be had on cheap, short-term deals – the same can’t be said for their other holes
The team knows full well how difficult it was for them to field a full club while having more than 60 million tied up in Mike, Albert and Josh …finally getting Hamilton off the books merely to replace him with another similar contract for the OF is straight insanity – especially since the team now has much less depth to pull from internally
I tend to agree. To keep Upton it’s probably going to have to be a 6 year deal. Which means (with Trout) you’ve got 2 of 3 OF positions blocking the one strong area of the farm system. The Angels prospect pool is finally beginning to turn the corner, and there’s suddenly a halfway decent pool of OF prospects (Jordon Adell, Jahmai Jones, Brandon Marsh, Jacob Pearson).
Meanwhile there is absolutely no plausible major league 2B or 3B potential talent in the Angels system.
So if you’re handing out long term, high dollar contacts, at least shore up the massive holes in depth chart.
Even if they keep Upton, the Angels have about $60 million coming off the books at the end of the season. They can afford to bring in a couple of other good infielders and restock their pen.
They have so many players returning from injuries that there is no real way to tell how many starters they will need. Richards, Shoemaker, Bridwell, and Skaggs should be back. Will Heaney be healthy? Will Ramirez be ready to go? Sounds more like they have 4 starting pitchers and have to pick up some depth to me, but then I’m not an Angels fan.
If they let Upton walk, then they have a huge hole in LF. Probably easier to fill holes at 2B and 3B than to replace Upton’s production.
The Angels will not have an opening day salary much, if at all, about 160 (and honestly, can not unless they are willing to go over the threshold)
Trout, Pujols, Upton, Simmons, Calhoun, Valbuena and Richards is going to cost around 120
That leaves around 40 to at max 50 to spend on everyone else – a total of 18 guys needed
Now the pitchers you listed as the possible rotation have 1 full season among them, and that full season was a 160 inning showing from the oldest of the group, Showmaker, in ’16. This year the 3 had FIPs of 4.84 (Brid), 4.56 (Skag) and 5.13 (Shoe)
…if you are serious about winning, that is not your rotation – but keeping Upton ensures it would pretty much have to be
Corner OF are a dine a dozen. Sure Upton is towards the top, but it is much easier to get WAR out of lesser OF on the market than it is finding cheap 2B, 3B, SP or RP that will outperform what you spent. 22 Mil can get Moose and a good OFer
One problem I see on both the Giants and the Angels in the area of rebuilding as some propose is you have to have a market for your players that will maximize your return. I don’t see a lot of market out there. Sorry
I think Todd Frasier would be a great fit in Anaheim. Is he going to leave the Yankees? I wouldn’t bet on it. Angels also need a second baseman. The pitching will be questionable at best. Angels bullpen was decent but they need to get rid of Jesse Chavez.
Eiland denied rumors of him talking to the Mets. “Why would i work for such a disfunctional organization? They have cheap owners and lackluster management. Look what they did to Willie Randolph. He’s one of the nicest guys in the sport and they ran him through the wringer. I’ve been spoiled working for classy organizations with owners who wanted to compete. Id rather retire than go over there.”