With just over a month left in the campaign, GM Brodie Van Wagenen took stock of his club in a conversation with Jon Heyman and Josh Lewin on the Big Time Baseball podcast. (Audio link.) We’ll cover a few highlights here.
Van Wagenen wasn’t ready to declare victory, as there’s work left to be done to get into the postseason. But he did call it “very exciting and rewarding” to see the club’s mid-season turnaround. “Most importantly,” he said, “we’re playing meaningful games here in August and hopefully September.”
There aren’t many avenues available to improving the club from the outside at this point, but Van Wagenen suggested he’s bullish on the potential for impact from within. Brandon Nimmo, Robinson Cano, and perhaps even Jed Lowrie could return late. As the Mets GM puts it, “we’re getting back guys that we envisioned being core members of our starting lineup.” Notably, Cano is said to have “already resumed baseball activities to a pretty high degree of workload.”
Asked about how the organization was able to revive itself after a long skid earlier this season, Van Wagenen pointed back. “A lot of it … is related to what we tried to do in the offseason,” he said. The rotation is finally firing on all cylinders, while the bullpen has improved and the club has received contributions from some recent acquisitions (he cited Wilson Ramos and J.D. Davis at points in the interview).
Rookie sensation Pete Alonso has, of course, been an immense part of the success. He was “a key part of our offseason” plan, says Van Wagenen, who explains that the club “gave him a clear runway” in hopes of just this sort of breakout.
Likewise, utilityman Jeff McNeil is now a core cog after an offseason of uncertainty. Van Wagenen says that “we really never wanted to lose or give up” McNeil, even after pushing him off of second base by acquiring Cano. The club “never said yes” to any packages involving McNeil in talks on Cano, says Van Wagenen. The GM added, with respect to some other high-profile trade pursuits (e.g., J.T. Realmuto): “Some of those reports are more about which teams liked our players, and which players were of high priority to them.”
The jury is still out on Brodie. The Cano move is a huge head scratcher, considering they already had a quality 2B on the roster in McNeil. Now they need to pretend Cano is playable for another 4 years. Yeesh.
IMO the only reason Cano is a head scratcher is Diaz. I think we could all agree if Diaz played as advertised we would have at least 5 more wins and a wildcard spot. He bombed and then Cano came under more light. We could accept Cano (a shade better than Bruce played for us) for a lights out Diaz!
Cano has vastly underperformed as well, though. We knew he had a good chance to regress a little due to age, but he’s having by far his worst season in a long time. The trade is a perfect storm of both players having disastrous seasons. I’d expect both to play better next year.
“We knew he had a good chance to regress a little due age” not to mention not being on performance enhancing substances.
He slugged .497 last year after coming back from his suspension. So, like I said, due to age.
???????
I will take a good second baseman over a closer anyway
Really? You’d take Edgardo Alfonzo over Mariano Rivera? I love Fonzy, but a dominant closer for a decade or more is an incredible thing to have. Diaz is 25. With the year he had last year, that was the trajectory he appeared to be on. He’s still young. If he can regain his control. He could still be a great reliever.
He said a good second baseman over a closer. Not ‘a good second baseman over the greatest reliever in the history of the game’.
Thank you. Mariano is/was a freek. Lights out closers come and go all the time, however.
5 wins? No. Diaz has blown as many saves as Chapman, Hand, and Osuna and actually LESS than Jansen and Hader.
Yes, the acquisition has cost the Mets some wins, but 5? That’s a bit too much. Diaz was never going to repeat 2018
Mets pen blew something like 23-25 leads in first half.
Diaz was awful.
Had they not blown even 10 of those leads, that’s 20 game swing. Mets would be 24 over right now.
It’s not just Diaz blown saves – it’s also 6 loses.
They could’ve been leading the division.
Exactly. 5 is generous.
The trade has been a disaster thus far, but not for this reason. People constantly question the “Cano trade,” but it was the Diaz trade. BVW trades for Edwin Diaz, because he was the best reliever in baseball as of the 2019 offseason. He’s been terrible this season, which may be due to an injury they aren’t being public about, but let’s be clear – the Mets took on about $70MM of Cano’s remaining salary ($14MM a year for 5 years), after the money they dumped from the Swarzak and Bruce contracts and the cash they got from Seattle, IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE DIAZ. They took on a bad contract so they could acquire Diaz without giving up more than they did.
spot on….its almost the same exact scenario when the Braves trades Kimbrel to the Padres but they had to take on BJ Upton contract as well. Us Braves fan in uproar about Kimbrel, yet happy to see Upton deal off books
Being a Braves fan, you should know it’s not the same deal. NYM gave up Kelenic and Dunn, top position/pitching prospects, took on $70M in contracts and added a great, although unproven, closer in Diaz. In so doing, they also took away the position of their best hitter (McNeil).
At the time of the trade Kimbrel earned 4 top-10 Cy Young finishes with almost 200 saves & a career ERA well under 2.00. He was locked up into a decent contract, ATL didn’t give away any prospects (but in fact added when SD traded the 41st overall pick (Austin Riley selection) & Matt Wisler (that didn’t pan out) plus Jordan Paroubeck (didn’t pan out)). ATL shed salary (including a pricey but affordable closer’s salary unnecessary in a rebuild, the worst contract in the sport (BJ Upton), added prospects including a 1st pick (Riley) and got some projects (Carlos Quentin, Cameron Maybin) in which Maybin played well and was able to get a few more prospects.
That’s turning chicken s— into chicken salad of a bad episode.
And the Mariners acquired two top 60 prospects for dumping a burdensome contract and a reliever who has imploded thus far.
Lets say thats the case. Do you put Cano back at second and Mcneil in the outfield pushing Lagares to the bench. Kiss the wildcard goodbye. Canes injury made the Mets better.
Pushing Lagares to the bench? He’s been a total disaster this year. Sorry, but Cano/McNeil is way better than Lagares/McNeil.
Absolutely, because all Lagares is good at is defense and running and unfortunately, you can’t steal first and what makes matters worse is that he’s a terrible on base guy.
@seanmc1983
Good post although Mets really owed Cano 62.5 or 63.5 mil over 5 seasons, not 70 when factoring Bruce, Swarzak and 20 mil from Seattle.
That money could have been pawned off on another team easily. Cano will not be taken by another team. So add it back to the total expense.
seanmc1983…the piece you are missing is the prospect value. Dunn is a #4/#5 type with a chance he’ll need to move to the BP bc of his stature. As for Kelenic….he was a rising minor league star and this season’s production is nothing but supportive of a top 10-15 prospect. So the deal was moving Bruce, Swarzak, Kelenic, AND Dunn….for a late-30 something coming off of a PEDs suspension and a top 3 reliever. If they removed Kelenic and Dunn, I could see taking on ~$100m in liability from Cano. As it stands, the Mets need Cano to turn around, Cano to bounce back for at least 2 of the next 3 years, AND Diaz to return to a top 3 closer for them not to lose this deal badly. Kelenic is going to be a top 5-10 prospect by the end of 2020. If Kelenic becomes a solid MLB’er or better (he is a 5 tool prospect that projects to be an all-star) the Mets got hosed. Imagine if they did include McNeil…yikes.
He bought high on both players was the problem. Generally not a good idea.
When you’re at the poker table for the first time, you make mistakes. Seattle’s GM took advantage. It was easy.
The Cano/Diaz trade was not a head scratcher, it was a great “win now” move at that time. No one foresaw Cano getting hurt & underperforming to the level that he has this season. Furthermore, NO ONE could have predicted that the best AL closer in 2018, who’s only 25 y/o, would pitch as poorly as he has.
It was a bold move and it showed all of baseball exactly the kind of GM Brodie Van Wagenen was going to be…….aggressive. I am one Mets fan that has been impressed by BVM. He has done an outstanding job getting quality players, it’s up to the players to play up to their potential.
Lots of people foresaw that. It’s okay if you weren’t one of them. Elite seasons are seldom repeated, and Diaz existed before 2018, where he was consistently a decent reliever and nothing better. Also, Cano is 36. There are a billion articles and analyses about aging curves and how players dropoff in their late 30s. The whole trade was deeply flawed from the start. One doesn’t need hindsight, just… sight.
Could you be a little more pompous, please?
HOGWASH!
Please, dude. Show me any baseball writer, heck, show me tweets from randos, that predicted Diaz being this bad. Diaz was being hailed as the crown jewel of the trade by practically everyone.
As a Mariners fan, I certainly foresaw Cano’s decline… maybe not this extreme, but I’m certainly not the only one, as a lot of people expected his drop off to start. Acquiring two blue chip prospects was more than we could ask for.
exactly
r u uninteligent?
MetsFanaticDanny
Other than trading Kelenic, Brodie’s done well. Trading Kelenic was as stupid as it gets trading a 5 tool CF with superb heart, work ethic, drive and mental makeup. He’s already in AA, a little over a year out of high school.
Hey Danny—“no one foresaw Cano’s continued demise?” It was a limited group exclusively to people who SEE WITH THEIR EYES OPENED.
And anyone that knows baseball understands that relievers are too unpredictable until they have proven themselves for several seasons.
I agree that Brody plays aggressively. However when he was an agent he was good at bluffing. In this case he got fleeced by Seattle who made him keep upping my his ante when they knew he didn’t have the cards to win.
Oh, and there’s no substitute for a GM that studies his minor league depth charts to understand strengths and weaknesses.
If he had done more in that regard he would have never piled on two often injured and old 2B players to clog his two best players from coming back.
He was too busy throwing around his handsome smiles with his false bravado.
Almost everyone saw through it.
So far Brodie sucks.
I know Kelenic and Dunn have a ton of collective upside, and Cano and Diaz are underperforming…but I’ll take Cano’s output for another 4 years if he gets on base a little more, and this isn’t the Diaz the Mets will continue to have. He’s still striking people out, his walk numbers are respectable, it’s just a game of adjustments and he’ll make his. He’s still going to get 30 saves. I don’t think BVW is as smart as people give him credit for, but he’s not as dumb as they give him credit for either.
Cano is gonna be tough to have playing unless the NL gets the DH real soon.
Barely over .500. Recovery probably saved his job, but a losing streak will take them out of contention. Cano will be a boat anchor for a long time
He convinced ownership to spend for better players, and ownership did so. Whether its successful or not remains to be seen, and how he will shuffle the roster with Cespedes and Wheeler next year will tell a lot- will he have to cut payroll because Cespedes will be on the roster ( and no insurance $ offset)?
The Mets were an 85 win team before the emergence of Alonso and McNeil, and their performances have been offset by Diaz (and others). The “when they are winning” is the reason we are speaking about them…if they scuffled around .500 all year like they were designed, it wouldn’t be a conversation.
The Mets will calculate the full salary in part of the payroll at the beginning of each year, with or without insurance. The Mets get very small relief with Lagares, Frazier, Wheeler coming off the books. Problem is the raises of Stroman, Thor, Lugo, Conforto, deGrom (+$16M), and a combined $8M salary boost between Familia and Ramos. They need to find a way to get rid of Familia and Ramos contracts in order to fund some actual bullpen pieces. Otherwise, the Coupons won’t be spending with all the pay raises starting next year.
They didn’t spend more money though! That is a huge contributing factor. They wanted to stay payroll neutral, which if you factor in the massive insurance payments coming for Wright, Ces, and likely Lowrie…the Mets spent like a small to mid-market club. It’s truly pathetic when you pull the curtain back, but MLB has always been tight with the Wilpons, so they have shielded them constantly. Sandy Alderson…directly from MLB. When the Mets couldn’t cover payroll a few years ago…MLB gave them a loan. Hell…they had Wilpon Sr. on the freaking finance committee!! The best thing for the org is for them to sell the team, which obviously won’t happen. So now the Mets are stuck with an albatross contract that will make resigning their current home-grown talent near impossible.
Quite honestly, I’m surprised that four pitching coaches have yet to figure out “the fix” for Diaz. He’s still throwing hard and his breaking stuff is moving, but he rarely hits the glove and all his misses are away with benders and in (relative to right handed hitters) with the heater. Hitters only have to look for a fastball in and tee off – which is what they have done all season.
Is it over striding? Arm slot? Shoulder flying open? Is it lack of identification by the coaching staff, refusal to change or the inability to adjust? Whatever it is, it’s been going on since April and nothing has been righted.
It could also be the ball. Numerous pitchers who utilize a slider have struggled this year….when they started using a new ball….and many have said as much. Hopefully Diaz can adjust. I trust Regan, despite his advanced age, as the pitching staff seems to really like the guy. I think it is part ball and also part mental…aka the 6″ between his ears that have caused him to lose his dominance. Hopefully Dias can get this sorted during the off-season. I really can’t expect him to bounce back during the biggest games of the season.
ill keep on saying you cant declare the Diaz-Cano deal a loss for the Mets yet. as bad as both have been, the pen being terrible overall and Lowrie’s absence has made both players better options then the alternatives. while you’d like to have had more immediate value out of Dunn and Kelenic, neither has reached the majors yet, and Diaz and Cano could still turn things around yet. the book is far from closed on this deal.
It’s a loss, the only question now is how much of a loss.
I would say best case scenario (and this is truly best case) is that Diaz returns to something just a little below last year for the next three years that he’s under control. Cano let’s say averages 140 games, isn’t a complete disaster defensively, and let’s say averages a 3 WAR offensively. (And I stress that I consider this the upper end of remotely feasible, if I were betting I’d guess it’s a lot more likely that Cano is a net negative for the rest of his contract).
The payroll number for Cano plus Diaz (which, in the above scenario, will be higher as a successful Diaz moves through arbitration) is more than their contribution is worth.
And that’s assuming Dunn and Kelenic end up being nothing.
It’s a bad trade. It was bad at the time (I won’t pretend I thought Diaz would be this awful, but I still hated the trade) and it looks worse now.
Brodie will be judged by what he does next year. If he brings back the same players, which the Wilpons do all the time, he will go down as another puppet.
Cano was hit on the wrist two different times early on. He came out of spring training in a good hitting groove. His wrists enable him to stay back on pitches and drive the ball. Swollen wrists don’t help. Then he suffered a leg injury which sidelined him for a while. Finally just as it seemed he was getting his groove Back the latest leg injury.
I believe if Diaz pitched anywhere close to last years performance there would not be a conversation about the trade.
In 2017 the Cubs gave the Yankees Glauber Torres for Chapmen. Then in the off season Chapmen resigned with the Yankees and Torres is now a fantastic all star caliber player. My question, was Epstein stupid in making that trade or did winning the World Series with Chapmen justify it.
At the time the Cubs knew Torres was close to a can’t miss with 6 years they controlled.
I believe all trades have to be made based on your objectives at the time of the trade.
Brodie knew they needed a top closer.
There were multiple solid RPs on the FA market, but instead he payed a kings ransom in Kelenic+ to get Diaz. Fail by Brodie. The Mets NEEDED starting pitching, so they trade away their closest SP who probably wouldn’t get shelled like the rest of the AAAA fodder the Mets have in the upper minors?
Hey Parker’s-were you one of those Mets fans who criticized the Yankees for keeping Gary Sanchez after last season? You know the ones who said that his shoulder injury was not a factor?
Well guess what? In December during an interview he responded to a question about the impact of his injury on last year’s results. He gave the right answer–“I don’t use injuries as an excuse”.
That’s a Yankee in the mold of the Jeters of the world. So I guess that since Cano is a Met it’s ok for you to use little injuries as his excuse.
Injuries are a part of the game. Get with the program.
Fixing Diaz is probably the Mets #1 institutional need right now. With him as a lockdown closer, and McNeil and Nimmo back to normal, they are a solid lineup, top 5 rotation and strong back-end.
If Smith and Lowrie and Canó are contributing by mid September, they have a deep bench, too.
Don’t hold your breath exile. Better chance running in the N.Y. Marathon which will have a special starting location for special baseball fans:
Chavez Revine
PS Exile. They need starters as well. Maybe you’re not watching their 5th straight loss tonight, however Thor looked Por tonight.
Cano (with the $56 mil remaining the next 4 years), Dominic Smith, Matthew Allan, Harol Gonzalez and Jake Magnum to Toronto for Randal Grichuk, Brandon Drury, Ken Giles, Ryan Tepera and Luke Maile.
i guess my question is why? I see no significant benefit for either team to really do this. If anything its a bigger detriment to the mets with the way roster counts come into play next year. I cant even really see monetarily it being worth it.
Mets:
Cons:
Losing a valuable bat in Smith (yes primary is blocked)
Losing roster spots for redundent / injured players
Losing upper end of 19 draft
Pros:
2b opens
Shaky Upgrade in BP (Giles prior year / tepera injury)
Mets:
Blue Jays::
Block potential prospect at 2b
Pros:
Open up roster spots
possible Improved 2b
possible improve minor league
In the end, it what are the roster spaces worth and would you trade Dom smith for Ken Giles.
Or the Jay’s can just have him DH
Well Guests believes that Cano will just DH after 2020. Does he realize that the NL has hardcore owners who don’t want to change into the AL format.
Also Bud Seelig is not the commissioner who kisses up to Fred. Rob Manfred knows that the best thing for MLB is to squeeze Wilpon out.
Cano would DH/1B after 2020. Biggio plays RF with Alford playing against lefties.
Option 2 is Cano goes straight to DH/1B, Jays look to deal Tellez and play Smith at 1B. Blue Jays made a huge mistake with Grichuk and now with that deal involving Fisher they need to move some OFs.
Mets receive bullpen help, Drury takes Frazier’s spot (not necessarily starting) and Grichuk takes Lagares’s spot. No more Cano, 2B becomes open again. Cano would make more sense in the AL where they have the DH. Cano can’t move to 1B.
Nobody wants Cano. Seattle GM had a hard time watching Brody with a straight face. He actually asked for a 15 minute recess so he could wash his face with cold water.
When the meeting resumed Brody thought the deal might not close so he threw in Kelenic.
You deal Cano for a bad contract in-return. It can be done. GMs don’t have the guts to do it because they will lose their job if they lose the bad contract for bad contract swap. Anyone can be traded. History has proven that.
Sure. If the Mets eat half the contract AND include their two best prospects. Oh, they traded them to Seattle last year. Too bad. Robby is staying. No DH relief.
Have fun watching the second coming of Miguel Cabrera, or Ryan Howard.
I would echo Exileinla and not only for the playoff push but as a starting base for next year.
This group is still young at their core.
If they are able to add a healthy Cespedes and Lowrie to the mix, it will be a strong group, bench included.
They only stand to lose Frazier, Lagares, Panik and Wheeler to free agency
I believe cano and Diaz will be better next year I mean they couldnt be any worse. The mets have a history of trading players or acquiring players and they seem to lay an egg on the 1st year.
See Granderson’s 1st year in ny subpar.
Jason bay all 4 years subpar.
Michael cuddyer 1st and only year subpar.
And the list goes on with the exception of Mike piazza who came in and out performed everyone the mets havent had much luck. So on hoping year 2 they turn it around.
Cano can certainly be worse next year.
Cano will continue on the downward trajectory as he’s been on. Have you ever seen a good 2B after age 36 season?
There won’t be a playoff push. The Mets to their credit did really well during their soft schedule.
Now they aren’t so lucky. Swept at home by the young Braves. Now they are being embarrassed at home by the Cubs.
To fits65
I am not using it as a excuse, I am just pointing out that the fall back MAY BE more injury related than natural retrogression.