Dec. 17: The Pirates have announced Marin’s hiring, adding that Justin Meccage has been named the team’s new bullpen coach. The 39-year-old Meccage was a Yankees draftee back in 2002 and has been with the Pirates organization in various capacities since 2011. He spent the 2018-19 seasons as Pittsburgh’s assistant pitching coach, so he’ll bring some continuity to a largely restructured big league staff.
Dec. 16: The Pirates will hire Oscar Marin as pitching coach, Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports. Marin will take over for the much-ballyhooed Ray Searage, whom the Pirates parted with after last season, and will clearly be a key hire for rookie manager Derek Shelton.
Still just 37 years old, Marin only has one season of major league coaching experience under his belt. That came in 2019, when he served as the Rangers’ bullpen coach. Before that, Marin was the Mariners’ minor league pitching coordinator for two years (2017-18) and a longtime assistant in the minors for the Rangers, with whom he initially worked from 2010-16.
Now in his first stint as a big league pitching coach, Marin will oversee a staff which struggled in 2019. Unfortunately for Marin, the Pirates’ group of pitchers doesn’t look to be in great shape heading into 2020. That could be all the more true if the team – led by new general manager Ben Cherington – elects to trade right-hander Chris Archer.
The Pirates just need pitchers to coach now.
Son of Cheech.
Heh
The pitching staff might actually be better without Archer.
We don’t have any pitchers absent Musgrove.
Mitch Keller?
Musgrove, Archer, Williams, Keller, brault/Kuhl is a bad rotation. Im wondering what it would take to land Happ again and what kind of prospect we could get as well in such a trade. He might not be terrific anymore but he would help stabilize the middle of this rotation.
Happ is no better than Musgrove or even Williams. You seem to want to spend, just to spend. That sounds like my wife
I don’t see the reason to add Happ. It’s not like we’re a player or two away from contending. Blow this whole thing up and start over. We’re a good 5-6 years away from contention, in my opinion, and that’s only if all goes perfectly. New management can only do so much without being given the funds to use. Until we can get payroll up to 100 million and bring in actual talent instead of retreads, we’re looking at 65-70 wins tops. Also, don’t increase payroll with contracts like the Cervelli and Harrison deals, those were atrocious.
If it returns prospects only
I just don’t see a way to land Happ.
A ton of teams would be interested in Happ for 10Mil if that’s the case.
The case is likely taking on around 15+Mil in order to receive a prospect likely Frazier.
Really would love to land Frazier, but Pirates won’t eat enough of Happs salary.
Also, are we writing off Trevor Williams after one bad season coming off 2 solid ones?
He’s a decent back end of the rotation guy. But I don’t see him as someone you can expect more out of.
I wouldn’t write him off. I’d trade him.
We’re coming off a coaching staff that made Gerrit Cole look like a decent, middle of the rotation starter. It’s hard to really know what talent we have on our staff right now
Exactly. The new coaching staff deserves a chance to see if they can get more out of these pitchers. Every single one of them has shown they are better than they were in 2019. Well, maybe not Musgrove. I still think he should be moved to the bullpen, but the Pirates don’t have enough starting arms to do that.
Only issue with Williams is he actually was a reflection of Searage.
Pitch to contact will never make you elite. in fact, pitch-to-contact is the exact definition of the role of a #4 or #5.
So yes, Williams is a solid bottom half guy.
I’ve never liked Musgrove.. was an obvious <5 inning guy before we traded for him,
…And hes only developed into an injury prone version of that same guy.
Terrible that hes easily our best rotation piece rn.
Greg Maddux pitched for contact was he not elite ????
Greg Maddux possessed otherworldly control. He could have hit a fly on top of a coke bottle with the ball and not touched the bottle. Can this dude do that?
Greg maddux had plenty of high k games
Chris Archer is a waste, bad pitcher, bad character. Stay away from that punk.
He is not a bad character. But of course an astute baseball professional like you knows everything
Archer is many things, but definitely not “bad character”.. He’s been very involved with the community since coming to Pittsburgh.
Funny how only black and latino players get this verbal barrage.
No, plenty of non black and latino players get this verbal barrage. Brice Harper has gotten this kind of barrage since he was in the minors. Just one , high profile example.
Another helpless race card being played. This is why we don’t take these comments seriously anymore and laugh at them. If you want pity so much because you honestly believe that whites have it easier, call up mommy and tell her your problems. She will throw a (•) in your mouth and cuddle you.
lol you want to call him a thug so bad dont you
He’s clearly trolling. You fell for it.
Myles Smollet
So underfunded. There should be a ceiling and there should be a floor.
If there were a ceiling and a floor, the Pittsburgh Pirates would place at right about underground bunker level…..and probably even lower than that.
And they would still see a payroll increase of about $40mil just to get to the floor.
I don’t think that would change much. They’d be right at the floor and say the cotton candy guy cost too much.
Bouncer Meccage, whose main job is to keep Crick and Kela separated.
It was crick and He who shall not be named.. not kela.
Kela just fights coaches, get it right 🙂
I don’t see next season as some doomsday kinda record. People are basing their 2020 assumptions on the old NH/Hurdle/Searage models with continued under-performance.
Everyone thought the hitting was going to be trash in 2019, but Eckstein & Co did a really solid job with the hitters. What’s to say Marin can’t do the same with the pitching staff? I mean, we all saw the progress made when pitchers started to ditch Searage’s advice.
For all we know, Eckstein has more time to get more out of Bell, Polanco, and Moran.
Marin may be able to get consistency out of Musgrove and Williams, get Keller to reach his potential, and Archer to gain solid value.
Playoff team? Not likely at all.
Better team? Quite possible.
Doomsday, bottom 5? Also possible, but I don’t view it as the absolute that many are making it out to be.
@swartnp7
I don’t disagree with you, but the question here is what does the gm think of the team? Like you said this team is not a playoff team…unless EVERYTHING falls in their favor.
So does Cherington sell off some major pieces? Marte, Archer, does he even go as far as trading Bell? I think they likely trade Marte, but how far do they go?
Bell NEEDS to be traded this offseason. He is a Boras client so there’s no chance of locking him up. And what if 2020 Bell reverts back to 2018 Bell? This is the time to make the move. Moran and Osuna can platoon at 1B, see what you have there and there’s Will Craig in AAA. The Pirates won’t contend with Bell’s remaining time in Pittsburgh.
I agree! And actually I didn’t think Osuna looked too overmatched at 3rd. Would I want him there every day, probably not. I’d probably look at signing Franco (if possible) and split time accordingly between several players and see what cream rises to the top.
Why sign Franco when Hayes is coming
Is he not close to being ready ???
If that’s the case keep Moran at 3rd and sign a rebound 1B while trading Bell
I’m all about bringing in affordable talent. If you can get him at the right price then what do you have to lose.
I’m fairly certain we know what we have in Moran. I’m more than pretty sure he isn’t a starting 3b (at least a full time starter). Competition is good and even though Franco has had his ups and downs IMO it’s worth (if the price is right) to see if a change in scenery helps him out.
Worst case scenario is dfa’ing him in ST best case scenario you end up with a steal. It’s the old “hope for the best, expect the worst…it will fall somewhere in the middle” adage.
Again this is also about being cost conscious as well. And also character. If there is some sort of character issue then it may be a no go.
Also I’m not worried about him blocking Hayes. Give Hayes a few more months in AAA and see where we are at. Again, and this is purely speculation for argument sake. What if the bucs did sign Franco and he blossomed? That’s a hellva good situation to have. IMO FWIW.
Other than Marte and Bell, the only other Pirates that have decent trade value are Kela, Frazier, and Archer if he can get off to a good start in 2020.
The only player I would trade right now is Marte. For future starting pitching, a catcher if possible, or a young OF.
I would keep all others FOR NOW, including Archer, Musgrove, Kela, etc. just to see what the new coaching staff can get out of them during the 1st half in order to either establish higher trade value, or even to keep them. Otherwise, I feel like they’d be selling low on all of them.
After all, new coaches did wonders for the hitting and the offense was pretty decent. And I’d like to give the new coaches time to see what they actually have on the roster.
Add Frazier to that list. He improved his defense enough to be a solid 2WAR player moving forward, making just a few million dollars next year. At age 28 and controllable for 3 more years, he has good value. He’d fit well with many teams as a solid regular or high-end utility piece.
Poor man’s Merrifield possibly
I agree with this. He won’t bring a ton back by himself but I’d take a lotto ticket or 2 for him.
Then again he can sweeten the pot in a deal. Think for a general example Brock Holt. General example folks.
Big issue is neither Marte nor Archer would acquire some type of franchise altering return right now.
Both may fetch better returns at the deadline if they have good first halfs.
I’m pretty much against trading Bell. The lineup has no chance without him anchoring the middle and his stock is too low with the defense and bad second half.
Pretty much Bell is more crucial to the Buccos than any other team.
Not trying to knock anyone here. But wth? The idea that our team is going to contend is fool hardy, first off. Secondly, neither Marte or Bell will be around when we actually have a window. (Well maybe Bell in his final year before FA). As we sit right now, each has surplus value due to control. Period, full stop.
Now in Bell’s case there is probably skepticism, which makes a mid season trade a “better idea”. But if my internal evaluation doesn’t lead to that conclusion “he will be super” I’m trading ASAP. “Great kid, but I gotta build this team” would be my thought
Theory…
Keller dominates
Taillon is relatively healthy and solid ..
Archer gets back in form…
Hayes comes up and can be relied on at 3B..
If you dump Marte and Bell, and those 4 things happen, then you regret trading them both immediately.
The pirates stink, but this division is terrible as well.
Trade either for a true top prospect.. but neither will fetch that right now.
Id keep kela.hes a proven closer. Maybe with a new manager and pitching coach, they can straighten him out. Same with archer. Trade marte a d bell. There is a good young nucleus on this team.
If the bucs don’t get a good offer now for Kela than you keep him and swing him at the deadline. If they get one now or it’s some sort of package deal that gets a better return, move him.
Kela is a nice chip to have. I’d take Oneil Cruz part dos for him. Having a high end proven closer on this team is like having tatas on a bull…just doesn’t make sense.
PIT should contact TOR about a trade for Archer. Blue Jays have depth at catcher and OF that Pirates could use for 2020 especially if they trade Marte.
Obviously Archer would give Blue Jays a veteran starting option that they are looking for and at a cheaper rate than say Ryu. Shouldn’t cost much to acquire him and perhaps a bounce back candidate as Archer would be returning to pitch in the AL east where we pitched well with the Rays
I’m not a fan of trading Archer just yet. He’s lost a lot of luster. He’s more a guy I’m looking to see if he can thoroughly bounce back. By all accounts he’s a good guy and presence. I’m fairly sure it was the philosophy not the actual pitcher that was the issue.
Agreed. Can’t sell low on Archer until last second, given what we gave up in return.
Trading archer right now makes no sense unless its somehow involved in a Happ-type contract swap where bucs get a prospect.
You say that like Archer & Ryu are comparable
Ryu has had a lot more success the last couple years
Why would the Blue Jays want Archer and even if they did not for anything of value at this point
Best to keep him and hope he builds value by the deadline
Archer isn’t comparable to Ryu. The point is his salary is likely less than what Ryu will score via FA.
Pirates just spent 500k on a catcher.. what makes you think they’ll continue to add there?
Depth
That one went over your head
Once again, the nut didn’t want to spend money on a real pitching coach.
I mean he is technically real from what I’ve read.
I think only trading Marte & Frazier now would be the ultimate time to get peak value. In both cases I think it would be better than taking the risk of having another scenario like when we held onto McCutchen & Josh Harrison and they lost trade value.
The Pirates should look into a trade w/ Atlanta again, maybe Marte & Kramer for Austin Riely, C Conteras & LHP Burrows.
The Pirates then should also contact the White Sox about a trade involving Adam Frazier and Kela for RHP Stiever, 1B Gavin Sheets & LHP Flores..
One could argue that teams may be more desperate for Marte at the deadline with so many options and prospectus right now.
Trading Frazier right now would be great though.
Hes a utility player at best and is better suited for an OF role with that clunker of a glove.
Actually his glove isn’t bad at second. His value comes from his ability to play multiple positions. As well as barrel the ball. Do I like him in an of corner? Hell no! But not a bad guy to put there maybe twice a week
Also no reason to add Kramer to that Marte trade, but Austin Riley would be a great fit to supplement Moran at 3B.
If Pirates could get creative and come out of this offseason with both Austin Riley and Clint Frazier , I’d call it a win for the org.
If you look at the Pirates depth chart, especially at 3B then you will see why I included Kramer in the deal to Atlanta. Another thing about Riley is that he is the Braves only depth piece at 3B behind Camargo unless they p[ick up a FA. Kramer would fit right in as a 3B platoon and utility role for the Braves.
I agree Clint Frazier would be nice to acquire but I don’t see it happening though. One OFer I think is similar to Frazier w/ less hype is Tyrone Taylor. I am really intrigued by Tyrone Taylor and C Payton Henry from the Brewers farm system. The Brewers may be interested in a trade of Chad Kuhl & our 2B/SS prospect Ji-Hwan Bae for both in return.
Is it just me or shouldn’t someone named Justin Meccage be the hitting coach?