While the Blue Jays weren’t known to be in pursuit of either Madison Bumgarner or Corey Kluber, Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet explores how Bumgarner’s deal with Arizona and Kluber’s trade to Texas nevertheless impact Toronto’s search for rotation help. The Dodgers and Angels missed out on both pitchers, leaving both Southern California clubs with an even shorter supply of potential upgrades to ponder. Given the Jays’ interest in Hyun-Jin Ryu, that’s not great news, as both L.A. clubs could now look more aggressively at Ryu. (The same could also be true of the Twins, who also pursued Bumgarner to no avail.) The Blue Jays entered the winter determined to improve their rotation, and while the additions of Tanner Roark and Chase Anderson undeniably help, options that align with GM Ross Atkins’ stated desire for “significant” upgrades are beginning to dwindle.
More from the division…
- Orioles skipper Brandon Hyde tells Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com that catcher Pedro Severino is going to “get a lot of innings behind home plate and get a lot of at-bats next year.” Hyde stopped short of firmly declaring Severino the starter over former top prospect Chance Sisco and defensive-minded Austin Wynns, but the 26-year-old Severino was clearly Baltimore’s best option in 2019, when he slashed .249/.321/.420 in 341 plate appearances. Unlike Sisco and Wynns, he’s also out of minor league options, which should afford him a lengthier leash in the event of some early struggles. Kubatko notes that the O’s are still in the market for some catching depth, although one would imagine that with three backstops already on the 40-man roster, that could simply be a minor league pact for a veteran receiver.
- After adding Yoshitomo Tsutsugo on a two-year deal, the Rays are still considering countryman Shogo Akiyama as a potential addition, writes Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times. Akiyama would add another center field option to the fold and likely bring some on-base skills to the table, although he’s also a left-handed hitter and Topkin spends some time focusing on the Rays’ desire to add a right-handed bat to the roster as well. Specifically, the Rays hope to add a right-handed hitter with some defensive versatility — hence the earlier interest in Howie Kendrick — but such options are rather rare in this winter’s free-agent market. Of course, plenty of options could manifest on the trade market; speculatively speaking, the Rays seem like a fine fit for switch-hitting Tigers super utilityman Niko Goodrum.
The Angels have to go hard after Ryu or what’s the point. They need a pitcher who “can” be a top of the rotation starter. They also need someone who can add stability to a rotation full of potential, but also full of question marks.
At this point I’d like the Angels to sign Ryu and Tehran. One with All-Star potential and the other for stability.
Why sign Rendon if you are not going to spend on pitching?
They’ll (Angels) dumpster dive for SP like they always do. Arte is a horrible owner and Eppler is an incompetent GM who has made horrible deal after horrible deal. This is what Arte does, signs a big bat because he has a crush on the player, then does nothing to address the rest of the team since there’s no financial flexibility. It’s the same ol’ story with the Angels
The Angels don’t always dumpster dive for starting pitching.
Three times in the last 15 years the Angels got the #1 starting pitcher on the market. A few years ago they traded for Greinke at the deadline. They also traded Skaggs and Corbin for Haran.
They went after Cole hard, and didn’t get them. . Where do people get this stuff? Do you follow the team at all or just have a short attention span.
You just named 3decent SP in the span of 15yrs… Ohtani could be 4 if his arm doesn’t fall off this season. CJ Wilson was horrible and overpaid. Skaggs wasn’t really an ACE and trading Corbin was a yet another bad move. They went hard after Cole, failed, and neglected the other SP.
Now, there’s only 3SP worth going after (Keuchel, Ryu and Teran) and they’ll probably pass on all theee and sign more spin rate pitchers like they did last year. Same story, bro. Prove me wrong.
I named five, three by name. But I’ll name them. Colon, Haren, Greinke, Wilson and Ohtani.
I know people dismiss Wilson, but his ERA+ the three years before he got here was 145 and he made the all star team for the Angels and before getting hurt, made 98 starts for the Angels in 3 season.
So somehow never adding a top of the rotation starter is the same as adding a top of the rotation starter every three years.
By the way, you know who else dumpster dives? The A’s.
Trolls will be trolls…
Lots of Arte haters but to his credit he isn’t afraid to spend and signs some of the better free agents available at the time. As for Eppler, I think he’s done well in most trades (Simmons for Aybar/Newcomb, LaStella for ??, Buttrey for Kinsler?) or taking flyers on some players (Robles), etc. he’s also had to rebuild a farm system that was dead last in 2014/15 which is why the Angels have passed on bigger free agents the last 3-5 yrs. (they can’t rebuild a farm system if they lose draft picks signing top FAs) the Bundy trade could end up being a solid move, he should thrive with better defense and offense backing him up, neutral park, getting out of the AL East, not to mention the coaching. I think both Arte and Eppler, need to put MORE value on starting pitching. it’s like if they can’t sign the perfect SP or make the big splash sign they shift to hitters and over analyze the remaining pitching options and can’t pull the trigger.
My guess is they sign Ryu and/or trade for Price – they probably overpay for both. The problem I have with those two is the injury history and age. Ryu on a 2yr deal is worth the risk, maybe a yr3 option. Price probably has something left but will Boston pay 35-45m of that 3/96? doubt it.
They should go after one of…Boyd, Gray, Ray, and a few other controllable pitchers.
I really think Callaway knows how get the most out of pitchers. I’m more excited about Callaway than I am about Maddon.
Developing pitchers is hard, and arguably no one has done a better job doing that than Callaway.
Your comment was flowing along nicely until the last paragraph and then you contradicted everything you said. Boyd, Gray, and Ray would destroy the farm system you mentioned, since the top prospects the Angels have nurtured would go to other teams. Those pitchers wouldn’t be obtained for a few lottery tickets in the lower minors, they would demand top ten prospects or they wouldn’t be traded.
Boyd isn’t going to cost multiple top prospects. Jam Jones and D’shawn Knowles should be enough for him.
Boyd will be incredibly expensive. He probably has the most value out of all the pitchers considering he’ll be owned longer under contract. You are completely underestimating the cost of cheap pitching.
Yes on Ryu. Angels got the best and biggest bat available. That sent a message to the fans, the division and the rest of the league. They have to finish “the job”; by grabbing the guy who could’ve, won the NL Cy Young.
Mr. Guest. They absolutely have to. I think the Angels need a high ceiling starter, an innings eater and a catcher. Another BP Arm would be nice. .
If they can address three or four of those needs, they’ll be very competitive. Heck, if they stay healthy, they’ll be very competitive, but why would they hope they can be competitive when they can do things to practically guarantee it?
And by competitive, I don’t mean catching the Astros. That’s possible, but it’s a pipe dream.
Ryu would be great…IF they can get 27-32 starts PER SEASON from the guy. It’s just weird he’s a CY candidate but a red flag at the same time.
Astros aren’t invincible they won’t run away with the AL West this year. They may win it but it’ll be a heck of a lot closer than the last 3-4 years. 93-97 wins is my guess.
There is still lots of work to be done by everyone. 🙂
Mac it’s absolutely possible. Not saying probable but possible. Not sure if the Angels feel they are set in RF yet or if they need another bullpen arm to go along with at least 1 starting pitcher.
Houston’s pitching might become a problem in 2020. Might. Verlander leaking some oil and Cole not adequately replaced, plus Miley. Adding pressure to the bullpen might not be a good thing either. Houston could win over 100 games again, and they could drop to 90. That opens a door.
The Problem with pitching is almost every team might have a problem. You’re one pitch away from an arm issue. Verlander and Grienke stabilize the other questions, and they are projected to be the best two pitchers in the division. If the Astros get pitching again, they are loaded.
Assuming the Angels sign a dependable starter. to counter Fiers, what gets me is how the A’s and Angels starting staff have similar questions. Both staffs have two great prospects, with injury concerns. Both have a 27, 28 year old former top 50 prospect who can’t put it together because of health issues.
The big difference is a PED user who has only ever pitched well when he tested for PEDs against Bundy.
But no one seems to hesitate that the A’s staff will be good and the Angels staff will be bad. I wonder if they are paying attention?
Well, the A’s are much easier to give the benefit of the doubt to with their pitching questions than the Angels after what has happened in recent years. The A’s figure it out. The Angels haven’t proven they can do that with pitching lately.
Both Anderson and Roark project as trade deadline moves for the Jays to continue to allow Atkins to get at best mid level prospects in return to build up the farm. Aka the last 3 years.
However, the Jays farm is much stronger than most anyone will give it credit. And for that maybe Shapiro will step up and make a move soon that will actually move the needle.
I think Shapiro might decide to let go of Atkins.. This very well may be the final offseason Atkins has his hands on. Someone within the organization will probably be promoted. My opinion.. but I think it’s time for a change, and I’m hoping Shapiro sees that too.
If they aren’t .500 this year, they’ll be gone I’d assume. They did their job building the minors, but if they can’t get the team into at least the wild card discussion this year, that should be it.
Don’t see Atkins being gone nor is Shapiro. Nobody will sit here and say the Jays should be contending for a wild card. Too many question marks at nearly every position, whether it’s about defense at that position or if the strong defender can hit at that position. Getting rid of him at the end of the 2020 season would make little sense. To ask this team with the minimal moves made, the minimal spending and blunders on holding guys too long (Donaldson, Smoak, soon to be Giles) to be a contender this quickly is tall order.
Yea I can’t see the Jays contending for a wild card this year. Too many young players who need to prove they can sustain success and far too many holes to fill.
What kills the Jays is that they play in the AL East. A lot easier to be optimistic if you’re in the Central for instance, but asking the Jays to succeed this soon when they play the Yankees, Red Sox, and always impossibly relevant Rays nearly 20 times each is a big big ask.
Would love to see the Ray’s sign Akiyama and trade KK. Kiermaier’s offense has gotten to the point that it’s cancelling out the benefit of his stellar defense. Best to sell high on his defense before that goes as well.
Yeah I agree with this. KK is great, but he’s a below average hitter that only is worth the money (esp for the Rays) when he is playing platinum glove level defense. As he gets older and his defense even just falls to “good” then it would be wise to flip him. I wonder what return the Rays could get though.
If Shogo does sign with Tampa, then Arizona makes sense as a destination for Kiermaier. The return completely depends on whether the Rays cover a portion of the salary or not.
very poor offseason for the Jays management. JP and AA we’re able to convince high end free agents to come to TO. Atkins doesn’t have the chops to get it done!
The only real high end one was Russell Martin and even that has a bit of an asterisk since he’s Canadian.
And he was an overpay. But that’s what it takes. If the Jays do get Keuchel, I won’t be surprised if it touches 80M/4.
I think you’re forgetting Riccardi bringing in Glause Burnette and BJ Ryan in the same offseason
Glaus was a trade acquisition. Burnett and Ryan were fun signings at the time but both were pretty bad deals with Burnett being a health risk and when he finally put it together, opting out to sign with the Yanks. Meanwhile the Jays made Ryan the highest paid reliever at the time despite many feeling his arm was a ticking time bomb and they got 1 great year and then nothing else.
I’m mentioned JP. And you’re forgetting Overbay
If you were replying to my comment I apologize as I was replying to JDs comment on Martin.
Coincidentally all worked under the same ownership.
Going to be next to impossible to move Kiermaier’s money (3/33M or so), unless the Rays eat some; too many cheaper options (Endor, Pillar) out there. And the PR consequences won’t be easy, and one more injury-type year, and it’s just an albatross for them, tho it’s sustainable in other markets.
OTOH, they’re probably better off keeping him. They haven’t flanked him with much, defensively, from the “meh” (Meadows) to the comical (Souza) to the absurd (Pham). He hasn’t had much out there with him.
Kiermaier, Ryan and Walls for Giles, Grichuk and Fisher. No money exchange.
Stop shoving Grichuk onto teams like Kevin Spacey shoved his…..I will stop there to keep it PG.
Won’t be stopping anytime soon. You can ‘bet’ on it.
Point is, Kiermaier can be traded. Majority of bad contracts can be traded with the exception of a couple. Seeing you didn’t say the trade is unfair, you’re welcome.
You’re starting to sound like SteelersBravesFan with Teheran trades. I am confident you don’t want that. I’m trying to help you out here, amigo.
You sound triggered. You help nobody, bets.
Confirmed knob.
I wonder if Toronto would look at david price, he was amazing in the time he was their and got them into the playoffs and seemed to enjoy the city, and unlike boston, he wont be overly analyzed by the media, ive been watching him for 4 years here, its not for him. While i dont see the sox trading him within the division, hearing that the blue jays are ‘in’ on all these pitcher’s, the ideas not to far fetched.
If he didnt pitch like an Ace after we acquire him he’ll be booed out of town in no time
Bluejays fans are losing patience with our pitchers very quicky
Toronto “should” be considering Price so long as they receive a return of salary. The Jays can deal Grichuk and Giles to offset some of the salary, especially in 2020. They are the higher priced players the Jays have.
Giles and Grichuk for Price, Mata, Song and $32-mil over 3 years ($4 in 2020, $14 and $14 following two seasons).
Thoughts?
IMHO Giles should only be dealt for young stud SP prospects. Or 1 stud SP and a Stud OF
Not as a salary swap for price
If Boston needs to unload price that desperately, they can ship him our way with one of their better prospects attached to him.
We can and should absorb the entire salary
Same with SD. If they must shed Hosmer or Myers, we can take either with their 2nd best SP prospect. Gore isnt happening unless we took on both salary
You cant tell me Rogers cant afford it. We all know different
SDP isn’t giving Gore up period. Nor is Mr Rogers taking on a boatload of salary.
Turner that is fine. I’d be fine with Hosmer or Myers. Jays have to give up their biggest salary and biggest trade asset to offset costs (Grichuk and Giles). Naylor, Quantrill, Weathers and $6-mil over 3 years starting in 2021 if it’s Myers, $6-mil over 2021 and 2022 if it’s Hosmer. Hosmer makes $13-mil 2023 and beyond.
Stay away from Ryu. He’s a national league pitcher. Go get Price asap