It was reported yesterday that the Major League Baseball Players Association has expanded its grievance proceeding against the Pirates. The MLBPA has also done so with respect to the Marlins and Rays, per Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald (via Twitter).
Originally, the union attacked those three teams as well as the Athletics for their allocation of revenue-sharing funds during the 2017-18 transactional period. The new claims presumably level similar charges with respect to the 2018-19 offseason. It is not specifically known whether the Oakland organization stands accused of further misdeeds.
Revenue sharing provisions are collectively bargained, with recipient teams required to account for their investments. The union’s precise charges and precise requests for relief are not fully known. In essence, it’s not hard to grasp: the MLBPA feels these teams aren’t spending enough on MLB player salaries.
The Marlins significantly drew down their Opening Day payroll level in each of the past two seasons. They peaked at $115MM and change in 2017, then dropped to under $100MM and then to about $72MM in the 2019 campaign. The Miami organization spent just $4.5MM on free agents last winter while shedding some larger salaries via trade.
Of course, it was widely anticipated that the Marlins were heading for another rough season. Since the sale of the organization, it has been fully enmeshed in a rebuilding effort. The club did boost its spending in the just-completed offseason, not that doing so speaks to its actions in prior winters.
The situation is a bit different for the Rays, who’ve compiled consecutive 90-game winning rosters. They’ve done so with minimal Opening Day payroll commitments — just $76MM in 2018 and $60MM in 2019 — though they added salary throughout both seasons. While their year-over-year payroll dropped, the Rays also did add one big contract last winter when they struck a two-year, $30MM deal with Charlie Morton.
leave the Rays alone. they dont need to spend more and therefore shouldn’t.
Spend more or relocate
Spend more or be fined
Spend more or sell the team
Stop cutting players because they make money
Cutting players?
MLB teams don’t Cut good players.. they trade them.
This is not NFL Rumors.
Spend more or give back the revenue sharing dollars.
Unfortunately it’s not a choice. The fanbase does not or can not support the team. The home field is not appealing, to put it nicely.
Yet, they find the best minds and talent to consistently compete. A truly great baseball story.
Rays are run like a hedge fund. Players are assets held by the fund. Buy low, sell high. Always running a loss on paper, for tax purposes. Focus on setting up a massive capital gain for the investment team when they execute their exit strategy.
If the Tampa area is dumb enough to fund a stadium, the Rays will be sold for a bloated 2 billion plus to some sucker.
Hey!! What’s wrong with playing baseball in a warehouse?
Lol I guess you’ve never seen their tv ratings or noticed their attendance was up last season
“Sorry Rays, you can’t move out of your crappy stadium or to a new city that draws more fans.”
[Rays spend less money to build a competitive team with last place attendance]
MLB: How dare you
@ you know what this is called…: Perfect
It’s strange people are defending wealthy owners that appear to be just pocketing the revenue sharing money designed to keep smaller markets competitive. I’ve been an A’s fan for a long time and this investigation isn’t surprising. Not sure about the Marlins though, they have new ownership and were a mediocre team with a weak farm system in a tough division … a rebuild seemed necessary. They signed Stanton for 300 million when a 30 million deal for Morton was considered “out of character” for the Rays.
It’s strange you think there’s a grievance against 3 specific teams with no factual evidence to initiate proceedings. Is this a deep state scenario?
Yeah if the Rays were forced to spend, they’d have find them a higher league to play in.
The union is ticked because the Rays prove you don’t need to overspend to be good. Salaries in baseball are generally bloated (yes, “market” value ), the Rays are efficient. Pretty sure everyone complaining is just jealous because their teams overspend and are inconsistent or just plain disappointing.
As a mariner (funny I use Swype and one of the words it came up with was martyr) is there a word or three below disappointment?
Mariner fan = martyr. Classic
+1
It’s the MLBPA that is complaining; not teams fans Sideline Redwine.
There have only been 2 teams in the last 20 years to win a World Series while being in the bottom half of the leagues payroll.. 2003 Marlins and the 2015 Royals. Spending money wins championships..
Talent and health wins championships. I counted 4 teams with the highest payroll who won the WS in the last 20 years. Spending on FA helps, but we can’t say that’s the common denominator.
Still tho, it’s higher payroll teams that make it to the AL/NLCS and WS, much less win it am thinking without looking it up and TB did make it way back in.. 08?? They were thoroughly smashed by Philly as recall and AL was pretty weak that year.
I agree, but PHI probably quadruples TB’s revenue. There’s no way to even the playing field. We can try to manipulate, but there will always be an imbalance.
It is logical that teams with higher payrolls pay players more, and better players want the most money they can get. So there is a direct relationship between higher team payroll and on-field production, typically.
There are always exceptions to this, but it is a logical thought process.
The way you phrase it seems kinda misleading. This means that the team with the highest payroll has a 20% chance of winning the WS, while being in the bottom half means you have a 0.6% chance of winning it. It’s because you are comparing 1 team vs the combined effort of 15. This is actually a super strong indicator the spending money helps. I actually wonder where it evens out, is that 1 team equal to the bottom 20?
Agree 100%. The Rays gave mastered ‘valuing’ players in their 1st 5 years … give them the credit (and leeway) they deserve
I know the Rays win, but as part of the CBA, they receive revenue money from the bigger market teams. Which they are then required to use to increase payroll. It’s part of the competitive balance part of the CBA. If they do not wish to increase payroll, they would have to refuse their part of the revenue sharing. Which I guess they did not do since MLB is going after them.
How did the Royals and Orioles escape the MLBPA’s fury?
The Orioles spend, just on terrible players.
They dont want the rebuttal from the O’s to be “chris davis is exhibit A on why we are not spending money”
Two words: Chris Davis.
Absolutely true. That is the true example of what makes a lot of teams avoid it.
Never got the Orioles don’t spend logic. The Orioles were towards the top half of the leagues payroll for years until last season.
Why should they have to spend more on salaries? If they field a competitive team, who cares how much they spend?
because they are receiving welfare from the league in the revenue sharing funds. The point of that money is to help them out financially to be able to spend money on players and give them a chance at a competitive team. it’s not to boost the owners bank accounts and increase their wallets. if the teams don’t want to spend the money, the league will look for ways to not have to pay them. the Rays are the exception that they are winning with a very small payroll, but like usual and like these other teams, once these player reach a point of needing a new contract,, they are sent away to have someone else pay while they reload with some prospects.
And yet they win. So changes are based on players value in the end and if they don’t fit the model they want to operate by, who cares!!! They win!
And if others try to follow that model that’s how they approach it. Spending doesn’t mean smart and doesn’t mean wins. It just means they want to try to take the shortcuts!
@billbucs:
what exactly do they win? its not the world series, theyve never won that. its not their division, been 10 years since they won that. its not a pennant, been 12 years since their lone pennant was won. so no, they dont “win”.
Don’t they have back to back 90 win seasons that would have put them in the playoffs both years in any other division? That’s why expanding the playoffs is a good idea.
@mafiabass:
they made the playoffs last year, but please tell us in what division their 90 wins gets them into the playoffs in 2018. cause its not “any” other division as you stated, in no division would they have made the playoffs in 2018.
Speaking of the last ten years or the last decade if you prefer, only five teams had more victories than the Rays. Guessing that leaves twenty four teams with fewer. “WINNING”!!
It’s doesn’t have to be salary only. It could be player development, high performance departments etc. to my knowledge
What’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable.
No one cares how much do you spend, everyone cares that they are on corporate welfare
Should be a salary floor in mlb
Bingo! A hard cap and floor, the caps work in every other league and the well run organizations remain at the top.
No way the Red Sox or the Yankees allow there to be a hard cap.
The Red Sox and Yankees can leave MLB and play in their own league then.
Just the opposite. The big payroll teams would welcome a cap, because it prevents them from being pushed to raise payroll. It’s the player’s union that opposes a cap. They need the big spenders to compete and drive prices up for the players.
Red Sox are at least trying to be responsible. They shed 50 million per this offseason. Cashman would stop rappelling down buildings and just leap from them, if a cap ceiling came in. Yanks rarely win with the top payroll. They never win without the top payroll.
The Yankees and the Red Sox are not the boss of the entire league. An issue like this does not require unanimous approval It’s either 2/3 or 3/4 approval required. Either way, 2 teams are not going to stop it alone.
And then MLB would fail. You’d have an AAA league.
Big spenders like Boston, Chicago Cubs, La Dodgers and Yankees have to rest the penalty ever three or four year. If not the penalty is 1 dollars for ever dollar spent, Then their is lost of draft picks in round 1 and lost of international spending. If you want to stop Yankees, Dodgers,Red Sox and Chicago from no signing any body for whole year just raise limit from 208 million to 240 million problem solved.
There’s no team that is spending so much it creates a bad situation for others, Gerrit Cole is goin to destroy the Yankees at the end of his contract, but teams not spending enough hurts baseball because it essentially tells certain fan bases not to even pay attention this or that year…a salary cap is a bad idea, why do the 30 billionaire owners need to keep all profits while the players pockets suffer, isn’t there like 2000 players? And that’s who makes baseball awesome, the players…before you say you shouldn’t be paid so much to play a game, make sure you can throw 96 with control…salary floor is a good idea though
Many teams would be doomed by one bad contract while the big boys like LA or Boston can get out from underneath it and not miss a beat. The caps work in football, basketball and hockey, no reason it can’t and shouldn’t work in baseball. And again, the floor is also important IMO.
All of this is exactly right. Cannot be argued.
A salary cap levels the playing field. A hard floor and ceiling works. Forces teams to draft and develop well, rather than just buying up other teams players to try and fix their holes.
Bruce… the Patriots are laughing at your comment.
How so? The Patriots have drafted better than just about anyone. Not that all of their picks work out, but they always manage to accumulate more picks to where they have leverage in the future drafts. They take advantage of teams desperate to add certain players during the draft. That part of the definition of drafting well.
The MLBPA will never agree to a hard cap. They are the strongest union out of all 4 of the major sports and would rather sit out a year than to see a hard cap initiated.
The lack of spending can be easily fixed with a salary floor. If these lower spending teams do not spend $XX million on salaries, they don’t get revenue sharing from the league and they could get fined by the league as well too. If they claim they can’t afford to pay the floor salary amounts then they should be forced to sell the team.
Then listen to teams cry when the floor is 50 of cap. So teams like Marlins be required t spend 125 million with cap at 250 million. Also then revenue sharing stops.
@brucenewton:
only in theory, but it doesnt actually work out that way. follow the sports that use a salary cap and you’ll see how level the playing field actually is.
Hard caps do not work. Floor, yes, cap, no. MLB players make way too much for there to be any cap, unless they set that cap at 500MM and regulate that any one player can only make x percent of total team payroll.
Players will never go for that. Union won’t go for that. Many teams won’t go for that.
Name the successful US sport with a salary floor but no cap. I’ll wait.
Curling
Rays have an extra adaptation to help them breathe (win) when resting at the bottom of the ocean (payroll list). Additional openings near their eyes are called spiracles (________). Insert your own punchline and see who gets the most votes!
Novelty
Players union just trying to look relevant. These teams have it all figured out. They will show where the $ went. Just because players aren’t getting paid doesn’t mean the $ isn’t being spent on baseball operations. It’s not like free agents want to go to these places. Who wants to play on low budget teams, have higher risk of being traded, play in empty ball parks and hitters don’t want to go to Pittsburgh and Oakland. These teams have to over pay or sign guys nobody else wants.
With this corona virus, I’m willing to bet most players would be more than happy playing in empty stadiums this year!
Competing for the AAAA title again…
What? The owners want to keep the money and not share?!?!?!?
Just like…. wait for it…. EVERYONE!
no kidding, why should they share?
You guys must’ve been the kid in kindergarten hogging all the blocks.
Marlins will be Marlins
The Mets…
Rays practically make the playoffs every year with players nobody has heard of I think they good
@thorshair:
before last season they hadnt made the playoffs in 6 years. so no they dont “practically make the playoffs every year”. in reality, they rarely make the playoffs. but its cool that you just got into baseball, welcome to the sport, its great.
And they’ve built that over the years by being bad, drafting at the top of the 1st round and hitting on good players which they’ve then dealt for prospects and repeated the cycle.
Now we know why people from the north east move to Florida. To get away from baseball.
Pirates will never be good until they find an owner who is not about living off corporate well fair
or welfare
As I said in the thread about the Pirates, Baseball needs to implement a year by year evaluation process so if the teams dont spend the money on player salaries this year, they will not recieve revenue sharing dollars next year.
I like it. Pirates are one of the teams who don’t spend but collect the sharing
Marlin, Pirates, Padres(until recently)Mariners, Tigers, Orioles, and diamondback are a few that in the last few years have not spent money on players.
Why not just file the 2019-2020 grievance against the Pirates now too to get it out of the way?
Litigation: the American Way.
The Marlins have been rebuilding for almost 20 years lol.
Marlins and Padres have been in the rebuild for a decade.
If the logic for the grievances is that those teams are not spending although they are getting money from the revenue sharing funds why not just make them give back what they haven’t spent?
Instead of forcing teams to sign players they think they don’t need, it will motivate them to find some other areas where they can spend their money on.
Raise veteran minimum
Raise pre arb and arb salaries and minor league salaries to liveable wages.
2 A ball – 50k
AA ball – 70k
AAA ball – 100k
AAAA ball – 150k.
Give teams 5 minor league teams each. AAAA ball is for players with 5+ years of mlb service time.
Create a cap floor 95-100 mill. Force teams to lock up young talent early or sign veterans to higher aav deals on shorter years.
Let teams hand out non guaranteed contracts in return for being forced to spend more. Why should teams be forced to spend more when money is guaranteed? I don’t blame them for not wanting to spend and be stuck with albatross contracts. You’d see more spending if teams could release players who don’t perform as expected and not be on the hook for the salary.
Let teams trade draft picks. Not in consecutive years.
Salary cap with a floor around 70% of the ceiling. 125/175 or similar. It’ll increase spending as a whole and help level the playing field.
I think it’s too late to ever have a salary cap now with how big contracts are. I don’t see the MLBPA ever agreeing to such a thing and even if it did happen. MLB would have the same problem the NBA has with its star players forcing their way out of small markets. You would also have some star players taking less money to play in the big markets.
Dear Pirates and Marlins….. Let me help you snuff two birds with one rock. Get out of the @MLB doghouse for low salaries, and sign ME for twice the league minimum, AND AS AN ADDED BONUS, I will help you TANK by ironically providing you maximum effort. That effort will guarantee you a sub-.200 OPS, no more than 2 stolen bases (after the stadium has emptied), and as many errors as you feel you need (via penciling me into the line-up).
Kthnxbai
Don’t sell yourself so short. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time.
If the Rays were not receiving welfare in terms of comp balance picks and extra international free agent signing room, I’d be more impressed with how smart they might be. As it is they get rewarded for being cheap.
Good point!
The Oakland a’s and Tampa bay rays are very similar when they produce talent they trade them away for better talent that helps them compete still. Yet most other teams have a hard time to do that in baseball. Yet we’re talking baseball players making a minimum in the major sitting “555k” a year most people doesn’t make that. The higher revenue teams keep the smalls teams alive from when they reach above the threshold.
If the pa wants to go after smaller market teams why do something about those cheaters on that 2017 astros team who comes out clean with no plenty. Yet Mlb doesn’t want bush league against the Astros players.
I did not realize that teams got as much money as they do. Does anyone know how much operating cost teams have other that player salaries or where to find such information.
The Atlanta Braves has to open their books due to it being owned by Liberty Media, a publicly-traded company. Fangraphs has a good breakdown of their revenues.
I would imagine the orioles and their 50 Million dollar payroll will be getting a grievance filed next offseason. I obviously don’t expect the MLBPA to be able to prove anything here. It’ll be interesting to see if teams that have been rebuilding with minuscule payrolls will spend a little bit of cash on short term deals in FA to avoid the legal battle moving forward though.
Pay the players in tacos
It seems commonplace that any ownership that recently purchased a team (any team really) is likely to tear down the team to the foundation and build it the way the new owner (and team president, and GM) wants it built (especially after what is typically an overpay to get the club in the first place). That takes more than a season and it has been done that way but other teams in the recent past as well. While not a real fan of the Marlins, I think they should get an exemption. As for the other teams who have had no such change? I see no real excuses other than taking the money and running.