A monster debut by Astros DH Yordan Alvarez earned him the AL Rookie of the Year award in 2019, but why did the Dodgers let him go in the first place? Jeff Todd retraces a 2016 trade that seemed minor at the time.
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Translation: Dodgers used their financial leverage to obtain a player another team really wanted. They then flipped him to try to obtain a piece they needed or more so they hope could evolve into a piece they needed. The piece they received didnāt really work, and the piece they gave up flourished. Theyāve won a trade like this, and theyāve lost this trade. It was a bad trade in retrospect, but as a fan not really much to blink an eye at. They donāt have a DH, and thereās not really room for him, even though the bat is impact.
Although had they kept him it would have affected future moves and perhaps some of the guys on the current roster would not be there? Anyway, water under the bridge you have to look at the entire body of work, and other than the pen, Friedman has done a great job.
Both the original and subsequent comment are spot on but let’s not be too quick to judge the trade by one good regular season of Alvarez when the league had no chance to adjust to him……he looked rather ordinary at best against much better and focused pitching with game plans in mind in the post season to say the least and the guy seems to strictly be a DH….let’s see how his 2nd season goes with the bat if that ever gets started.
It wouldn’t be the first time a guy had an outstanding year in a career of mediocre career years in the majors.
Not to mention the cheating scandal looming over the entire organization. Itās entirely possible that all of the 2019 buzzer rumors are completely true and this guy benefited, so who knows if these numbers are truly indicative of his actual talent.
He had/has a knee injury that costs his in the postseason. He was not 100% despite him starting in LF one game.
HAHAHAHA…. you are so pathetic. Yordan was barely in the system in 2017.
ASTROS whooped y’alls ass in 2017, would have in 2018 and in 2019… and if the season is played this year, y’all would be the Astros B once again.
Rent FREE baby…
Huh?!
My response was in reply to Stan Lee…not St. Croix…
Iām actually a Cardinals fan and have zero dog in that fight. Just pissed off like 90% of the league that all of the people that cheated got off with zero consequences. Also someone who is aware how realistic it is that after winning a World Series with a cheating system in place in 2017, they improved upon that system and kept using it in 2018 and 2019.
Alvarez has nothing to do with 2017, great. I never said he did. I said itās very possible that he was part of a team that continued to cheat past 2017.
@rocky7 Alvarez looked terrible against the Yankees. But against the Rays and Nationals he batted .360 with close to a 1.000 OPS. Hardly ordinary.
So you think the Astros continued to cheat, even though EVERY player that has left the team says the same thing……that the cheating stopped after 2017?
And you think that is more plausible than other teams using technology to cheat as well?
Interesting.
This is why astro fans, astro players and their entire staff is hated. My wish is this guy and all the fans, players and organization people will get covid-19. I won’t ask God cause God is created by humans. Please get covid-19 and I wanna see you suffer with you on broken ventilators making you breathe periodically by machine. Having your windpipe cut in so your mucus being sucked out by another machine. I will smile on your bedside watching you and having whiskey on rocks with my hazard suit on.
@samlumao you’re a POS dude
Wow dude that is not even funny. I really hope you pay for what you said when judgement day comes.
Really? Typical Asstro fan, corrupt and moronic!
Covid is just a cold/flu like virus 80-98% of the people that get wonāt even have to miss a day of work, except they already shut us down! Dumbest thing ever
You mean the trash can won.
Bit of a human clown shoe Mr. aggie 99? I have been to Texas and do not remember folks speaking in whatever dialect you are attempting to emulate. Thanks for playing though.
Jesus created humans.
False, countries wouldnāt be quaranting and shutting down over the flu.
Well, to be honest, when the Dodgers has him they were not privy to the ātrash can trainingā technique that was mastered by the Astros.
If so, he probably wouldāve flourished in LAD blue too!
Sam: Your opinion about whether God is created by humans is unsubstantiated, but your other comment is horrific.
Good people, whether or not you believe in God, are dying all over the world and you say something like that? Iām truly speechless other than to say when you meet God, He already has a special assignment for you.
pretty extreme thoughts to have about a game my dude
Aggie, your team didnt whoop anybody in 2017. The losers biggio and bagwell learned it takes more than steroids to win in Oct (their #’s were horrendous). So the next generation found a different way to cheat.
They didnt whoop anybody. They would have lost to the Yankees or to the Dodgers had they been lucky enough to get by NYY.
They simply gained an edge by selling their souls and losing the worlds respect. Everyone outside of Hou sees them as nothing more than pathetic cheaters.
Geeez guy, you went a bit overboard. How can you wish every Astro and Astro fan get that dreadful virus? My husband and I have been Astro fans since 1970. Of course we were elated when they won the World Series after so many years of disappointment. We were again disappointed when the cheating news broke. I think all Astro fans believed the Astros of 2017 and every other year were a team with the highest morals. Fans had nothing to do with the cheating scandal, and believe me the entire fan base feels cheated by the ones involved in the scandal and certainly feels they should be held accountable. To wish misery and death to anyone over a game is despicable. You need to take a chill pill and wait for a new season to start.
@colotta please do not speak for all Astros fans. I donāt feel cheated by the scandal, and I couldnāt care less if the Astros are held accountable. Why? Because they were 1 of 8-10 teams doing it, and the league didnāt bother to look into any of the other teams……except the Red Sox and thatās only because Cora went there.
Itās like NCAA football and basketball. I think we all know that 75-80% of the teams are cheating in recruiting, yet no one cares.
@takeitback youāre a clown man. First of all it was 7 games, there was no whoop on anyone and it literally took cheating to win a World Series for a team that had more talent and motive that year than anyone else. Youāre ā8-10ā team argument is infantile at best. So far the Cardinals received a worst punishment for hacking your beloved Astros. People literally are banned from the sport over the Cardinals hacking scandal, your team walked away with a ring. People that truly love the sport are disgusted with the franchise with how they still go over things. Your immature and ignorant waste of responses only fuels the continual hatred of your team and fans. Grow up or get off the forums you sophomoric neanderthal!
1drefordays6 is right. I’d say it was closer to 15 teams.
@WereAll youāre right. Haha. I was trying to be conservative. 12-15 teams is probably more realistic.
@1drefordays6 Maybe reading comprehension is difficult for you, but I never said anything about the Astros whooping anyone.
Not sure how my ā8-10 teamsā is infantile since players have been talking about 12-15 teams cheating since before the ruling on the Astros came down. I guess we only believe players when they accuse the Astros.
Iām also not sure how me saying that I donāt care that they cheated is immature. I understand fans of other teams hating the Astros, and I understand some Astros fans being disappointed. Iām not though. That doesnāt make me immature, that makes me a fan of my team. I view it as they were one of many teams doing it, just like college football teams that cheat in recruiting. I donāt think cheating is good for the game, so hopefully this puts an end to it for all the teams. But Iām not going to get upset with my team doing what others were doing as well.
Thatās somewhat the assumption, but thereās also something to be said about the Dodgers overall value to a complete player vs a one dimensional player and lack of flexibility. At least to me this was a financial play that weāre finding out didnāt work out, but as you said water under the bridge. Dodgers fans are spoiled with this machine of a player development system. Makes a miss like this not hurt really.
those home/away numbers go from a good player to a great player at home. So without knowing the pitches he will be a good player but not the numbers he put up this year.
Most players HIT BETTER AT HOME than away. Yes, the Astros cheated. Who among you stone throwers are 100% law abiding, rule following citizens? Do you speed,do you throw gum &/or cigarette butts out the window, make a rolling stop at a stop sign?
Speeding is quite different than stealing millions of dollars. But, okay.
Straw man argument Prospectwhatever. Astros cheated, got caught and pretty much got away with it. Period.
No they don’t. Depends on the park and the trash cans. Its not a what about question. We will see how good he is this year. i say his stats go down you say they go up. Funny how I will remind you about your quote next year.
@arc Thanks for finally acknowledging that Altuve wasnāt cheating, like Correa stated.
2017
Home: .311/.371/.463/.834
Road: .381/.449/.633/1.081
Altuve career .825 OPS on the road and .828 OPS at home. So basically the same player.
And for the record, Alvarez had a .985 OPS on the road. Haha. Nice try though.
FWIW, they got 2.5 years of sub 3 relief pitching from Fields
They got pretty much what they expected. Alvarez just flourishes and clearly hit his potential
Nice job on the video Jeff.
Hopefully one day he gets to move out of his parentās basement.
Ha. He probably has a bigger house than you could ever dream of. Now go page mommy for more hot pockets.
Hardly… but nice try. Hope your mommy doesnāt burn you hot pockets.
When are y’all going to use in game clips to reference the different players y’all talk about. It’s really easy now that mlb’s website has a video section where you can just search a player’s name, and then narrow it down to an at bat, or in the field. or pitching. Then you could edit the clips into the MLBTR video just for some examples.
Simple reason: it’s easier and faster to cut videos with pictures. Videos require more search and edit time. As a videographer, I can understand completely.
Pictures means more videos.
MLB has a copyright to all MLB footage. MLBTR is probably just playing it safe and not using footage, rather than run a risk of a lawsuit because they wanted to spice up an already good video.
Win some, lose some. Not too long after this trade they got a better player in Max Muncy on a minor league deal.
Heās another Edwin Rios if heās still with the Dodgers. Capable but blocked.
you’re giving Rios way too much credit
He is giving Rios too much credit, but his overall point is well taken. Alvarez does not get on the field ahead of Bellinger, Muncy, or Turner. He’s be a pinch hitter or more likely he’d be waiver wire material on the Dodgers.
Why couldnāt Avila get him in the Verlander deal?
Because Avila is a class A dolt.
Because that is just what the Tigers needed. Another DH-only to go with Miggy
Puig looked like a perennial all-star in 2013. Point is, itās far to early to tell with Alvarez. 2-4 yrs down the road it could be just another trade.
Yordan wouldn’t have fit as well in the NL, because he is such a negative on D. Looking back, as an Astros fan the Dodgers probably should have gotten more than Josh Fields… The Astros have lost WAY more than won on trades over the last 10 years, but this and the Cole trade were really good.
The Verlander deal looks pretty good too regardless of how the prospects work out.
Because he was a lotto ticket. It happens dozens of times a year. Once in a while, it pays off. But no one ever wants to talk about the 99% of other lotto tickets that didn’t become great traded for fringe big leaguers to help a team through September.
Let’s look at a historical example. Larry Andersen traded for Jeff Bagwell looks very bad in hindsight, but no one knew what Bagwell would become. Plus, you have to look at the fact that Larry Andersen did exactly what he was supposed to do for Boston. He pitched lights out for them in September with a 1.23 ERA and provided 1.2 WAR in just a month. Boston won the division by two games. So Boston did not exactly lose the trade, Houston just won bigger. On the very same day as that deal, the Mets traded away 2 minor leaguers to the Phillies for Tom Herr, a once very good player that was a little past his prime, much like Andersen. Those two minor leaguers were named Rocky Elli and Nikco Riesgo. Basically it was the same trade except Houston’s paid off and Philadelphia’s didn’t.
I don’t know, maybe lottery ticket is a bad comparison because these deals do work out more often than the lottery. Maybe think of it as betting the long shots at the track. More often than not, you lose your money, but when you win you hit big.
Because the dodgers don’t use trash cans. They recycle.
Love dodgers fans.Doesnāt matter how good or bad you do you things you will always be in good shape yet you havenāt won a World Series since 88 and your ace is trash in the playoffs
Walker Buehler is trash in the playoffs?
Kershaw is alot of the time tho.
nice try, but Kersh is still the ace
And is Dodgers fans love jealous haters like yourself that have to says total non sense just to make yourself feel better. How’s that workin for ya.
First off, I donāt do anything but watch. good shape is a bit of a stretch and Iām fairly certain Iāll never win a World Series
Second, 2017 they lost to proven cheaters in 7 games and their āaceā was trashed by proven cheaters. Take away game 5 and he had a pretty good series.
Third, They lost to what I think will soon be proven cheaters. Though maybe not quite to the extent Houston cheated.
Lmao. Kershaw in game 5… 4 innings, 1 hit
Suddenly, 5 runs in 5 hitters in the 5th
Sure seems like your team couldnāt handle that trash guy until they started cheating
and surely you wouldnāt want kershaw or Buehler on the Astros! Theyāre so deep after.. the 37 year old and the Tommy John patient who only throws curveballs… you know, the pitch that blows your arm faster than basically any other pitch.
That 31 year old who posted his first season every with an ERA over 3.. at 3.05… sure is done
Nice argument
Because Friedman knew the guy is not good enough on defense to play in the NL. Friedman is one of the most intelligent front office leaders of all time, but you have to be extremely low IQ to fail to understand the defensive side of the equation at this point.
Stop it! Friedman is already quoted as saying that he hadnāt seen Alvarez play yet. But you still think defense is even remotely part of this equation?
By the way, how was Big Papi defensively? Alvarez may not turn into Big Papi, but who cares what his defense looks like? He is already an elite offensive player, that is asked to do nothing but play offense.
You wouldnāt have traded Big Papi or JD Martinez for Josh Fields just because their defense sucked. So donāt make it sound like Friedman did. He made a mistake and traded a player before he put his own eyes on him. Give credit to Lunhow and the Astros scouting department for doing their research and asking for the right guy.
Big Papi wasn’t traded for a guy like Fields. They couldn’t even get that much for him. He was released by the Twins and picked up on waivers by Boston. And the reason he was released as because his defense sucked.
Sure once he was established as a superior hitter, defense didn’t matter. But before then it made a big difference. Big Papi really got lucky because he was nearly bounced out of the league altogether.
You donāt have to āseeā him play. You can send someone to see. Nothing you say really goes to my point. The NL values defense more than the AL. Why is that not clear?
This also says nothing about your point. Of course Friedman did not think he would become rookie of the year. Itās just a simple observation that no one above made, which is how the NL is different and defense is valued differently. You probably donāt value defense because you havenāt studied the matrics.
So he signed Alvarez to a $2.5 million contract, and paid the matching penalty, knowing he would be a terrible defender for an NL team? And you expect me to believe that he thought defense mattered when he made this trade?
If defense was so important to him, why spend $5 million on him in the first place?
The two things the Dodgers lost out on was:
1. Trading Alvarez to a comparably talented organization in the Astros and making that team stronger.
2. Using him as a trade chip to another organization after he had established his rookie numbers.
Heās currently all bat but no position. And heās a left-handed hitter, something the Dodgers donāt need. Where would he play? Heās relegated to either left field or first base and a combination or Muncy, Bellinger, Pollock and Pederson are already sharing time. If his hitting really is the real deal then maybe in retrospect, the organization would have used him exclusively as a starter in LF and never would have signed AJ Pollock who cost them over $60 Million. Again, he would be another left-handed hitter in the line-up. Pollock was supposed to balance out the right side.
One can dream……… oddly many Dodger fans still like the idea of Pollock on that horrid contract….
Dodgers down to just Belli and AJ next year in the Of till Aj inevitably goes down –
Mookie Kiki Joc are all free agents and Turner for the inf as well- Might have taken Yordan till next year to make this team newyaz bt theres plenty of room 2021
Though he doesnāt have a true position, theyāll also have Chris Taylor who plays above average either in the infield or outfield. Itāll be interesting to see what they do with KikĆ©. Joc is assuredly gone after 2020, so do they need to find a new platoon with AJ?
I bet they sign Turner to a short contract. Los Angeles has a Justin Turner Day so I canāt imagine the organization letting him walk without even presenting a fair offer.
Ditto on Turner…I hope they go year by year though as hes already 35… Unless we feel Hoese is a sure bet soon we need to start thinking of 3b long term
Joc def gone, Taylor I think they would rather keep in utility than hand the everyday LF keys over
Kiki to me doesnt separate that far away enough from a guy like Beaty to pay for…. IN all honesty I think being a fan fav and clubhouse fav got him that contract tendered this year more than on field production
Look at pollock after the came back. 850-950 ops in every month
So youāre basing your opinion on when he was hurt early in the year+ 15 playoff at bats, arenāt ya?
More the last 4 years but yea the fact we had a 60 mill player on the BN in a playoff elimination game was pretty telling as well-
Ops-
2016- 716
17- 801
18- 800
19- 795
All from a corner Of whoes inj prone, losing defensive skills every year, and making 60 mill- I dont see the upside, never did- Youd be much better off getting Calhoun at 2/18
Oh and reason he had 2 months of a nice Ops at the end of 2019 is bc we platooned him vs lefties and weak Rh pitchers……. you shouldnt be platooning a 60 mill player, his highest ab total was sept with 76 š outside of April when his 86 abs lead to a ops of 498 …yes that Ops not slug % !
Can you please mark the videos as videos so I know not to click on them?
Why. Side stone cold said so thatās why
As much as I love Alvarez, it’s too early to call this a steal. He’s bad knees have me concerned. Just like Correa’s back. These things tend to not get better.
I’m very happy to have the player, but I wish he could play outfield a couple days a week.
It’s not too early to call it a steal. Even if Alvarez never plays another game at the big league level, he accomplished more in his rookie campaign than Josh Fields did in a Dodgers uniform. And Fields was actually pretty good with the Dodgers for 2.5 years.
No he didnāt
Fields threw 3 years, 100+ innings of 2.5 era ball. Alvarez had a questionable rookie year given the continued scandals and injury concerns at 22. He aināt getting any smaller dude…
What are their WARās for Fields 3 yrs in LA and Alvarezās 1 year with the Astros?
So what? Literally every team has a trade or two like this. This is only a problem if there’s a long history of trades like this because it suggests a serious inability to either scout or develop talent. I’d rather judge trades by the logic at the time; for example, Torres and more for a half-season rental of Chapman. It may have worked out for the Cubs, but I still contend they wouldn’t have needed Chapman if Maddon had properly managed his pen. Meanwhile, Torres would have kept their window open longer.
what i don’t get about the narrative some have here is that to call Alvarez just another lottery ticket is kinds insane. sure he hasn’t played a game in affiliated ball, but he played pretty well at a young age in the Serie and i think was already regarded among a lot of his amateur free agent peers.
Most of the time when you sign a 19-year old, it’s more about projection and hope than getting a refined ballplayer, so they tend to be lottery tickets more often. The Serie Nacional is a decent league, but it’s not exactly AAA. Kicking ass in it doesn’t really mean anything most of the time; it’s just enough to get scouts’ attention. The rest is projection and analysis of tools.
Realisciallg, Alvarez probably never suits up for LA even if not traded here. Heās likely dealt in another deal in the subsequent seasons. His profile doesnāt blend with LAās flexibility at all. Heād be a pinch hitter and theyād prosy he can play 1B.
Again, I just think heād have been dealt again personally
22 with a big frame and knee problems is troubling though
Astros have a knack for trading relief pitchers for young players that become stars—just ask the Boston Red Sox how it feels to get Larry Anderson for a AA third-baseman…..in Jeff Bagwell. Not saying Alvarez will be a Bagwell…..but the power is there already. š