12:21pm: One of the players that has tested positive is shortstop Miguel Rojas, per Jon Heyman of MLB Network (via Twitter).
9:06am: Four additional Marlins players have tested positive for COVID-19, according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (Twitter link). Specific player identities are not known. That appears to bring the team’s total to 15 infected players.
Given the sheer numbers of absent players, it’s fair to wonder at this point just how the Miami organization is going to fill out an active roster for the foreseeable future. The coronavirus injured list will help, but managing 40-man roster and 60-man player pool regulations while bringing in plausible major leaguers will be quite the challenge.
Quite beyond the logistics, competitive considerations, and technical baseball rules, it’s fair to question whether there’s a morally defensible means by which the Marlins can field a team at this time. Given the lag between infection and identification via testing, it’s impossible to know for sure whether any other members of the active roster (and other members of the organization) have active infections.
Any further baseball activity in the coming days would pose a clear risk of further spread within the organization, including to newly acquired or activated players, as well as to opposing teams and umpires. That’s not just a logistical nightmare for the staging of the 2020 season, it’s a potential health calamity for any number of people associated with the game.
This is a developing story …
Poor Jetes.
Now that we’re about to see it in action, I don’t really get what the point of the 60 man pool is other than to just have a second camp where prospects can play.
If the Marlins need to DFA a bunch of players off their 40 man just to bring in players from the 60 man player pool doesn’t that kind of defeat the point? With 15 players down, they physically cannot field a team of more than 25 players without 40 man roster moves now right?
I’m sure they couldn’t do this because of its impact on next year/future rosters/service time/options, but I feel like the league should have done away with the 40 man this year and just made it the 60 man player pool to allow for flexibility in this situation.
Great point. There are option years and service time that would be affected, as well as higher rates of pay for players on 40-Man. But teams (Marlins) should not be at risk of losing players they have and want to keep over positive Covid tests while still needing to field a team.
According to Rosenthal, players put on the COVID list are removed from the 40. So players not on the 40 can be added. The issue is when the players become healthy. Then you have to DFA a bunch of players to get back to 40
I thought one of the biggest keys of the 60-man player pool is allowing young players time to practice, play, and develop.
With no minor league baseball this season, correct me if I’m wrong, but unless a prospect is in the 60-man pool, they’re not practicing/working out/playing at all this year. Being in the 60-man pool is the only way for that to happen.
They are going to have to add a bunch of guys that can be easily DFAed when this is over. That means having to remove actual prospects that are not on the 40 from the 60 man player pool (rendering them ineligible for the rest of the season). They are going to have to call around the league effectively for rental players on other teams player pools since they presumably have already been COVID tested and would not take the extra intake time – the Erik Kratzes of the world.
I think MLB should relax the roster rules in this case so that the Marlins can add players but keep them in their system once the infected recover.
I doubt that they can unilaterally do that.
No team should have to DFA a player who was promoted to the 60-man to cover for a player placed on the COVID-IL. This is such an obvious issue I’m kind of shocked that it wasn’t addressed in the negotiations. All assuming MLB can actually complete this short season, which seemed like a pretty remote possibility from the beginning, and now looks like a long shot.
Yes and no. Technically maybe yes, but what’s the point of putting out a team of minor league players if most of your team is infected? Do we want to see 15-1 games? Teams are now refusing to play the Marlins. Rightfully so. Phillies game cancelled again. It’s not a matter of “if” the season will be cancelled but rather when.
Do the infected Marlins have to stay in Philly for how long now?
Truly, that is the greatest punishment of all.
Post of the year!
If they’re still in Philly like the first wave than yes, I think.
Phillies and Yankees are cancelled for tonight due to pending test results. Right now, this is one team with one bad problem. Not in favor of chucking the hard work by the owners, players, managers, etc to try to pull off a season based on one team. If it takes cancelling Marlin games for two weeks and letting everyone else play then so be it. But this should be a wake up call to every one. If we are to complete this season, have to follow the rules every minute of every day. Protect yourself, your teammates, your family.
Absolutely, great post.
My thoughts exactly
It makes me wish the league and the union spent a few months working together to develop a good manageable system. Instead they spent a few months throwing toys at each other and screaming.
What passes for journalism these days reported the “throwing toys and screaming” (nice line by the way). It is quite possible the protocols were developed and agreed upon in a more responsible matter, but went unreported (no click bait in a headline that reads “two parties have a reasonable discussion”).
Why are you blaming management instead of the individual that broke protocol?
Are we sure someone broke protocol? it is completely possible to do everything right and still get a positive test.
They had positive tests over the weekend. Mattingly, the manager, said the TEAM voted unanimously to play. This was a concerted effort by the Marlins to cover up positive tests and keep playing.
It does invite more questions. Chief among them: Why is there no oversight to ensure that players who test positive are removed immediately?
Could not disagree more. This is not just about one team with one bad problem. Are you friggin’ kidding me? Even if one wanted to just summarily dismiss the egregious and blatant competitive disadvantage the Marlins are now faced with — the fact that HALF of their active roster now needs to be replaced with minor leaguers means that every team in the NL or AL East that gets to play the Marlins is given a major competitive advantage. How is that fair to teams in the Central and West divisions? The competitive integrity of the entire season is completely shot.
dunno if I’d go that far; the Marlins AAA roster would likely continue to throttle the Phillies.
Funny stuff. But in reality, the Marlins do have some solid prospects close to coming up who wouldn’t embarrass themselves. Be a tough season, but they’d be in games.
Thankfully the recovery rate is super high. I’m glad these players will get better, but it’ll be an annoying few weeks for them and everyone involved!
I don’t think I’m going out on a limb when I say I have a feeling the season will get shut down within the next 10 days. Just don’t see how this is going to work. If the league doesn’t take action first, city or state leaders will by saying your infected team is not allowed to travel to our city.
This ^100
Well, I mean, the Marlins weren’t competitive to begin with really, so not sure how this changes anything. In all seriousness though, MLB should have had a solution in place for something like this that isn’t shut down all of baseballl because of 1 outbreak on 1 team, which it hopefully stays at.
1 outbreak on 1 team is a little bit of an understatement when it’s 50% of the team after 3 games.
Is the number of games relevant? I’m not sure it is.
I’m curious to know if any of these players are ill, or if more test negative (as noted elsewhere, I read one players has subsequently tested negative).
It could be the “outbreak” is a function of poor testing materials or false positives. We just don’t know, and given privacy laws may never. know.
How is it not relevant? Things just opened up and half of an entire team is out for a couple weeks.
If we were 40 games into the 60 game season before one team had an outbreak, doesnt that seem A whole lot less ominous?
I think the number of games is totally relevant
Morally?
What is your question, exactly? There are clear moral implications here.
Can you ever morally field a team? Is there an inherent morality to sports? Where do we derive our morality from? Some big philosophical questions to be asked here?
If you can’t understand the simple proposition I stated — that it is questionable whether it’s morally defensible for this team to be playing baseball right now — I have no words for you. I’m not hinting at any grand philosophical debates.
Probably should just turn off the comments on Covid articles. If using the word “morally” or referencing other leagues that are successfully preventing Covid-19 outbreaks is too political for people, there’s really no point in having a discussion.
Tough since it’s such a big portion of the news … we are trying our best!
Well Jeff, they are not playing baseball right now, are they? And when they do, it will be with only players with negative tests results,. Maybe that is not enough morality for you (which is fine, I don’t mean to tell you your morality is wrong), but in this case, it works for me. And likely many others.
u made some vague assertion about morality and you are apparently too scared to expound upon why you believe a baseball team playing is immoral and then u have the audacity to act like u have some intellectual high ground. play ball folks, dont let the doomsayers stop us
There is an incubation period between exposure/infection and testing identification. It varies by person and can be lengthy.
That’s why we’ve been reading about “self-isolation for two weeks as a precaution,” etc, for all of these months. Given the volume of positives on this team, it’s hard to assume anything about the remaining portions of the roster.
That’s the basis for my statement that there’s an argument to be made that it isn’t morally defensible for the Marlins to be playing baseball at this time. But I did not issue any definitive position on the topic.
Thanks for your polite response, even if we personally differ in opinion. It is possible!
The adverb “morally” is used correctly in the article. Here’s the definition.
1. with reference to the principles of right and wrong behavior.
2.. in a way that is considered right according to the code of behavior of a particular society.
Per the guidelines agreed to by MLB and the MLBPA, the players are morally obligated to follow COVID-19 health protocol for the 2020 season., To not do so is the wrong behavior based on the agreement.
I think Nietzsche said, Baseball is dead.
Hey Jeff, I feel better about myself by saying that my comments are not intended to be either rude or kind. I simply state my opinion, analyze each individuals opinion, and state that regardless of whats “right” or “wrong”, that each individual stick with the view that best suits themselves.
In any case, I want to make it clear that my stance on the COVID issue is for the prevention of further infection and tragedy, but that I have a biased viewpoint or “understanding” that each individual person does/thinks what benefits them.
You could say this comment is in response to the deletion of my opinion that might have come off as aggressively contrarian towards another’s opinion. Even if my words become heated, my final words to any discussion/argument will ultimately be “whatever suits you best.”
All that said, I feel better about myself writing this out and feel that I benefited enough from stating my perspective on this respective issue.
Make the most of your respective days AKA have a nice day,
Jacob
Jeff: Correct and there are false negatives, most tests run at about 70-80 accurate. So people can be infected and it won’t show because of the time lag from infection to the body response building to a high enough level to show on a test…and the false negitives… There is no way any player that has been in contact with an infected player should be allowed to play and this presents a spreading danger… under the Test trace and quarantine.. which is supposed to be pandemic Protocol, if you have been in contact with an infected person, you self quarantine for 14 days … From the CDC official guidelines : ” Contacts are encouraged to stay home and maintain social distance from others (at least 6 feet) until 14 days after their last exposure, in case they also become ill. They should monitor themselves by checking their temperature twice daily and watching for cough or shortness of breath. To the extent possible, public health staff should check in with contacts to make sure they are self-monitoring and have not developed symptoms. Contacts who develop symptoms should promptly isolate themselves and notify public health staff. They should be promptly evaluated for infection and for the need for medical care.” cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/principles-conta…
That would be uberschmuck.
”… There is an incubation period between exposure/infection and testing..”
That is absolutely correct. An asymptomatic Marlins player could get a base hit and be held on by the other side’s first baseman. Of course, it’s impossible to hold a runner on first and also socially distance, so the first baseman winds up getting infected and spreading the virus to his teammates. Rinse and repeat. Before you know it, everybody’s sick.
The players, who are young and in optimal health, should mostly get through it okay. I worry more about the sixty something managers and coaches around the league, as well as some of the older umpires. We could lose a few before this is over.
How many of these players are asymptomatic?
We have no details on the specific cases. They’re also being tested frequently so symptoms could develop later. And new studies are showing significant symptoms that were not necessarily known to infected persons, especially in the heart.
Jeff: and the Brain: including strokes, development of psychological symptoms, neuro-deficites ( think concussion on steroids) ( like loss of ordination, balance and much worse.. loss of memory and clarity) sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200708150550.htm
I thought they were already at 12+2 coaching staff. 12+4 =16 last I checked.
Yes, but you’re forgetting alternative facts, e.g. 12+4’=16.
I believe the balance of reporting had it at 11 before today, with four new positives.
Jeff: that was just the players i believe and 2 in the coaching support staff were also reported..
Aren’t they being tested every other day? How did a positive case slip by and get everyone else infected?
If I were the Marlins, I would cut the person who started this for not taking the protocols seriously.
Love it so spot on.
Is it not possible to take the protocols seriously and still get a positive test?
Smokin, let me put it this way. A LA Clippers player left the team to attend his father’s funeral. Then he went to a strip club.
Yes, it’s possible, but that’s probably not happening.
Halo, we don’t know the situation, and we likely never will,. I do know that there is no way to be completely safe from getting infected.
Have you ever been in your 20s? We don’t know, but we really do.
Halo, I’m not going there. We don’t know the specifics, and speculating doesn’t seem right.
I respect that. Many people are pointing at management, they have a lot less control than the players in the trenches.
I generally look at the people who have control.
This virus can lay dormant in the body for days after contact. A person could come in contact on Monday, never knowing it. They could test negative the next 5 days, all the while spreading it themselves over those 5 days to every single person they contact in addition to who those people contact (other team personnel, hotel staff, airport workers, etc) then -WHAM- the virus incubates and manifests. This is how this damn coronavirus operates.
Test all you want, but the reality is that one person can become infected and spread it in massive trace contact numbers long before anyone realizes they even had it.
As I’ve stated numerous times, these players were most likely exposed in Florida before the season started and are just now testing positive. They have been spreading this for 10 days and we are just now beginning to see the net results.
Oh, by the way, remember when MLB chartered two planes to bring in players from the Dominican without testing them before boarding? Remember all those players who tested positive when they got off the plane? You think they were the only ones infected?
jim stern, That is exactly what happened to Freddie Freeman. He initially thought he was good to go because of a negative result because the virus hadn’t yet manifested.
Good post Jim, thanks.
Jimstem, thank you.
I’m thinking of the story about Joey Gallo, who tested positive, then negative, then positive, then negative…each test two days after the prior one. The positives were saliva test, the negatives were nasal swabs.
I sense the saliva test used by MLB is fast, but less than accurate.
jkoch717: the tests aren’t all that accurate and you can be infected and until your body reacts adequately to the infection you will not show positive for up to a week is my understanding
All players have to act responsibly or we will not have a season. One player can literally put half a clubhouse on the IL.
Getting people, especially those south of 30 to act responsibly is a herculean task. It takes exceptional team leadership to convince some people to not take unnecessary risks.
After seeing this, I don’t have a lot of hope.
From the start MLB decided that players could not be required to live in a protective bubble during the season as they are in Korea and Japan, where they are still playing and may soon allow fans into the stadiums. Voluntary was never going to cut it and if anybody doubted it before they should know why now. If MLB has any thoughts about completing this season they need to hit the pause button immediately and implement isolation protocols for the players. Otherwise just forget about this season, it’s done.
Just from a logistical standpoint they really should just suspend the usual 40-man roster rules. Have the 60-man roster and just pick your active roster day to day. It sucks and there’s problems with it, but that’s true about basically everything on earth right now.
You’d think many of the MiLB guys would be fine/OK not accruing service time but getting the MLB pay and opportunity.
I give it two weeks tops—the MLB will accept reality to cancel the remaining season. Admirable effort, but too much is at stake (health of players, staff, families, aircrews, hotel workers, etc.) to continue.
It depends, will this be a wake up call to the players that they have to be more careful and if they get it they will spread it to their teammates?
I think it is quite interesting that no Phillies tested positive.. Does this suggest on-field spread is unlikely?
I don’t think MLB is willing to bang the season over 15 positive test results from the Marlins. if it was the Yankees, that may be a different matter.
And it is curious that one of the initial 11 has now tested negative.
There is an incubation period.of 2 to 14 days so it is probably too early to detect the virus in infected Phillies.
No Phillies players contracted the virus because no Phillies players were breathing during that 3-game series.
One team = 2 infected.
2 = 4
4 = 8
… season should be canceled as soon as a second team sees an outbreak like this. Reds already have 3, Phils probably contracted, but may not see it for a week. It shouldn’t take long.
I read all of the Phillies players tested negative. I don’t follow Covid news as closely as some,. but I don’t recall reading that an infected person can test negative for up to five days after being infected.
I think people are making assumptions.
Do we really now how long it takes to test positive?
So much we still don’t know.
Smokin Joe, that’s pretty much what happened to Freddie Freeman.
It will not take long. Part of me wants to give the players credit for trying. But realistically, the season shouldn’t have started. In addition to the virus, we are seeing guys getting hurt due to the start-and-stop nature of the pre-season. Besides that, the only ones profiting from playing games in home ballparks are the players and owners. All those small businesses that benefit from a summer of baseball remain closed, including some for good. This is the kind of mixed message that is making it difficult for the United States to cope with the virus. What’s not okay for some is okay for others. The clusters of players in dugouts without masks are a bad look. Same with the cardboard cutouts that people are actually shelling out for. I personally have no problem with what players make, but many people will view this as the rich getting theirs and screw the rest of us.
I wouldn’t shut the league down because you have one clubhouse with a covid outbreak. Whether or not the infection is due to someone(s) on the team being careless is unclear. But both sides agreed to the rules. The Marlins will have to piece together a bunch of waiver wire fodder and take it on the chin for a while.
It’ll be really interesting to see what happens if this happens to say, the Dodgers or Yankees.
From a baseball sense, it could be a long-term positive for the Marlins. They can get some of there younger players some playing time. Seems to me it would be appropriate for MLB to loosen some of the waiver rules so that the Marlins could activate recovered players without losing another player.
I doubt that, man. They’re going to be claiming other teams castoffs to fill out their roster for 10 days or so. Maybe they find some diamond in the rough but I can’t believe that this is really a positive. It’s going to be a really abnormal situation. They’re going to claim guys, get little to no time of actually coaching those guys and then throw them out on the field. It’s no different than any other waiver claim except that you’re throwing out 6-7 of those guys at a time, instead of 1.
Doesn’t seem like a situation that’s ripe with opportunity. They’ll probably have to DFA most of the guys before they ever really got a fair crack.
I haven’t looked at their 60 man roster, but I know most teams have some pretty good prospects on those lists. Getting some of those players MLB time could definitely be beneficial. They don’t have to use the waiver wire at all if they don’t want to.
I highly doubt that they’ll add top prospects to the team as covid replacements. Those prospects who are on the 40 man already, I suppose are strong options. But they can’t add 10 prospects. You can’t add many top prospects who aren’t on the 40 man because you’ll wind up with a massive 40 man log Jam when the covid crew comes back. The way the 40 man roster works; it just won’t allow for a bunch of prospects to come up as replacements.
They have no AA and AAA guys on their 60? And if not, they now can add them if choose.
It sucks to have 15 guys have to go on the IR at one time, but teams often have 10+ guys on the IR during the season.
No team has ever had 15 guys drop in 2 days. That’s unprecedented. There’s no situation that is comparable. If a team has 10 guys down it’s pretty likely that 3-4+ of them are on the 60 day DL and quite possibly done for the year. You’re talking about a situation where you have 15 guys out who could all be added back to your roster within 2 weeks.
These are temporary 40 man slots they’re opened up. You’re gonna put 4A players and waiver wire fodder on your 40 man for the most part to replace them.
No argument with anything you say, Johnny. My point, poorly made, is that the rules this year allow for 60 players. It seems to me MLB could relax some of the rules so that the Marlins can keep players in their system that they otherwise would be be able to. The Marlins could fill their active roster with players currently in their system. No need for the “waiver wire fodder.”
The Marlins fortunately, do have 4 top 100 guys on their 40 man.
Chisholm, Harrison, Sanchez, and Lewin Diaz. They’re likely a fortunate outlier in that regard though. But even at that, it leaves 11 other spots that have to be filled. I agree with you that it’d be nice for the MLB to have some kind of system this year where teams could call up a number of their top prospects in this situation w/o the ensuing 40 man roster crunch. It’s just not the reality of what Miami or any other team has to deal with though.
As a Dodger fan, I have been troubled by how often they break protocol in the dugout. Some of these guys must think they’re indestructible.
Watching the games last night, that seems to have changed.
Perhaps this is a teachable moment?
I don’t think so. Too many Americans are dumb and selfish. We are having the worst results in the world, yet we still have a segment of our population calling the virus a hoax. I am 62. I work in a public school and am having serious thoughts about sitting the year out. School openings aren’t just about keeping kids safe, but also the employees. Which leads us back to baseball. There will be guys who think the rules don’t apply to them, if not on the field then off it. We all need to be extra careful. And even then, it doesn’t wipe out the possibility of getting infected.
When do the Yankees visit Tampa? Seems like anyone going to Florida is at high risk right now. There numbers are incredibly high and from the sound of it they have been making the numbers seem better than they are.
That brings their total infected players to 15 out of 33 on their traveling roster. Two members of the coaching staff also tested positive. It’s difficult to envision the Marlins putting together an active 30-man roster with all these players now in quarantine for the next two weeks. They do have upwards of 27 players in their 60-man pool but most of them are prospects who are not even on the team’s 40-man reserve roster.
This will surely play havoc with the MLB East schedules for the next two weeks in an already abbreviated and congested 60-game season.
That’s the main problem with filling out the roster. If you add all the prospects to the 40 man to fill spots, when players come back from the COVID list then you have to DFA someone. Since the Marlins are rebuilding there’s no way they’re going to DFA their prospects and mess up their future.
If you’re one of the guys who got sick and then you get subsequently DFA’ed off the 40 man because of it, that’s an absolutely brutal way to lose your spot in the big leagues.
Based on those roster considerations, I think we’re more likely to see them sign a skeleton crew of minor league type FAs who can be easily DFA’ed when other people recover, even if it means playing with 25 or 26 out of 30. The problem is, are those types of players even game ready?
How sweet would it be if they still made the playoffs
As Harry Carey would say about the 2020 season: Stick a fork in it, it’s done!
Well at least for the Marlins. When the playoffs come around just pick the last teams standing to play in them.
Miguel Rojas, Phillie killer
Anyone in a Marlins uniform kills the Phillies.. That’s what makes the Wheeler signing even better. He kind of owns the Marlins.
the science of the testing indicates that the time between infection and positive tests increases the accuracy…….. “Antibody tests one week after first symptoms only detected 30% of people who had COVID-19. Accuracy increased in week 2 with 70% detected, and was highest in week 3 (more than 90% detected)”… by this we see that you will have many false negatives if the person was just infected… so the MLB testing protocols aren’t an accurate picture of infection levels in a team.. that takes weeks… cochrane.org/CD013652/INFECTN_what-diagnostic-accu…
But sure, let the rest of the team and organization personnel travel around the country. By the way, I have family in Tampa, so be ready because that area has blown up as well.
Baseball needs to just ban flights in and out of Florida, Texas and California. Actually, it just needs to end because nobody is quarantining for two weeks before or after travel. This is just stupid.
Good call.
News just out says Fla. just broke its daily Covid deaths record
today – 186. Now #2 in total cases in US.
The entire Red Sox pitching staff is suffering from diareaha. And nobody cares!
Payback for that black lives matter banner hanging in the outfield seats