Indians right-hander Mike Clevinger returned Wednesday from a team-imposed demotion that lasted almost two weeks after he violated coronavirus protocols. Clevinger threw six innings of two-run ball in a win over the Twins in his comeback, though there continues to be trade speculation centering on the 29-year-old as the Aug. 31 deadline draws closer. He’s “definitely being talked about in trade scenarios,” tweets Jon Heyman of MLB Network, but the Indians’ asking price is “ridiculous.”
Clevinger certainly isn’t the most popular player in the Cleveland organization in the wake of his recent off-field mistakes, though it’s hard to fault the club for placing a high price tag on him. After all, the hard-throwing Clevinger’s a proven front-line producer who’s affordable this year, in which he’s earning a prorated $4.1MM, and under control for two more full seasons via arbitration.
Since he broke out in 2017, Clevinger has posted a sparkling 2.97 ERA/3.43 FIP with 10.22 K/9 and 3.35 BB/9 in 470 1/3 innings. Along with AL Cy Young front-runner Shane Bieber, Aaron Civale and Carlos Carrasco, Clevinger helps give the Indians’ rotation one of the top quartets in baseball (and that’s without potential rising star Zach Plesac, whom the team optioned alongside Clevinger). There’s also rookie Triston McKenzie, who fired six innings of two-hit, one-run, 10-strikeout ball in his MLB debut versus the Tigers last Saturday.
Thanks in part to their overflow of quality starting pitching, the Indians have begun the year 19-12, atop the AL wild-card race and just a half-game behind the Twins in their division. With that in mind, there’s no reason for the contending Indians to part with Clevinger for anything less than a Godfather offer before Monday.
Seems like Heyman is acting as a mouthpiece for a GM or two. Shocking…
brave new world
You make your offer and see if Cleveland says yes.
My offer if i was Alex Anthopoulos, I’ll give you Drew Waters, Kyle Wright, Ender Inciarte, Branden Shewmake, and international signing money. For Clevinger
i like al conin
I like your direction but I think the headliner has to be greater than Waters. And you probably need at least 2 surefire top prospects. Pache would have to be in there, if not Ian Anderson too. And Wright might need a change of scenery, but his stock is low now.
I’m all about packing high value prospects, but three out our top 10 is a gigantic haul. And then to say it’s not enough? Yikes.
You guys realize the Braves have sanctions that prevent them from replenishing their farm system, right?
Clevinger isn’t a star player so you wanting 3 top 10 prospects is asinine.
What part of 2.97 ERA/3.43 ERA with 10+ K/9 isn’t star?
The Infinity Gauntlet
Lol They wouldn’t even Get Ian Anderson in a 1 on 1 Trade (or Swap). The Kid just beat Gerrit Cole & the New York Yankees in his Debut. Ian is 22 and Clevinger is 29. Ian Anderson naturally has a better contract situation since he just made his debut. That’s not to say Ian Anderson is already better than or will ever be better than Clevinger. It’s just not where ATL is at right now. My comment is less about Clevinger & more about the fact that it wouldnt fix our depth problem. Gaining a Great SP & losing a Good SP won’t change the fact that you would only have 2 SPs. Which won’t get them a Ring. So theyd be better of keeping their Long term Asset.
The Human Rain Delay
They wouldn’t want Enders money attached whatsoever
brave new world
Ender actually gives them someone to play CF today. Anderson is off limits. Waters is #27 in MLB pipeline, and waters was top 30 till he graduated off the list. Shewmake was a 1st round pick last year and you need a Future SS, after Lindor leaves, I would include say William Contreras, a big league ready catcher or tucker Davidson, a LHP with great stuff who made major strides. Throws mid to upper 90’s with a nasty slider.
So after the 1st offer is declined but a good starting point maybe a deal can be made.
Waters, Wright, Shewmake, Contreras/Davison, and pTBNL from a list of good prospects not in the 60 man pool.
You need a headliner. And Wright has limited trade value I’d say.
Cleveland has 4 center fielders already so they have no need for Inciarte.
The Human Rain Delay
Thats a great proposal – They wouldnt want Enders money attached though, nothing to do with ability to play Cf imo
Hes Due almost 9 mill next year then over a Mill buyout year after- Not Clevlands MO and certainly not when dealing a highly sought after player with multiple bidders –
I dont think Cle and Atl lineup that well if Im being Honest, both teams are going for it this year…Perhaps if a guy like Riley was hitting Cle would have interest but Id think Atl would likewise have more interest in keeping him
The Infinity Gauntlet
Dont Trade Contreras. He is going to be the guy once Tyler Flowers contract ends. Alex Jackson can be Traded. William Contreras & Shea Langeliers are the future in ATL. If Soroka was Healthy it would make sense to be Buying At the Deadline this year. Without him, The Braves World Series chances are NOT good enough to give up the farm system. They’re going to make Playoffs & fall short of a ring. If a trade doesnt change that, it isnt worth mortgaging the future.
The Infinity Gauntlet
Ehh…It wasnt Really Great. Cleveland has a Real Shot of winning if they dont get in their own way. If I were them I wouldn’t trade Clevinger or Plesac. I think they’re looking at Trading Plesac though.
Their Rotation is Strong & Deep. They have a good Bullpen.
I think the Indians GM wants Both Clint Frazier AND Miguel Andujar from New York. Which in my opinion gives New York the leg up for the WS more than The Indians.
This is why I wish they would close comments for these sections.
Ace of Diamonds
Rengifo, Bundy, La Stella, Castro, Simmons, and Goodwin for Clevenger.
Simmons and LaStella are rentals who would not have a place to play in Cleveland as their infield is strong. Cleveland has starting pitching depth so don’t need Bundy. Cleveland would easily say no.to this.
Heyman has such a low bar when it comes to what he reports, a janitor at Yankee stadium could tell him that the team is about to trade for Clevinger and he would probably tweet it out as coming from an “MLB inside source.” For every 100 things he tweets maybe 1 or 2 actually end up being relevant and/or true.
Say What Dawg?
Braves fans gripping. You don’t get strong starting pitching, a rare commodity, for second tier prospects. Be offended all you want, that’s not how negotiations become agreements unless the team with the desirable starting pitcher has little leverage.
Agreed. Look what they got for Bauer with only a year and a half of control left. Clevenger is the consistent pitcher.
The Infinity Gauntlet
This is true. If you want a Great Pitcher like Clevinger, You have to give up great Prospects. I think most Braves fans complaining is less about the Cost & more about the fact that Even with Clevinger they still probably aren’t a World Series team.
They have a much better chance next year when Soroka comes back. The Braves should have the ability to address the problem in Free Agency with some of the deals coming off of Payroll.
You can’t blame me for wanting to trade my Prospects next year…when a Covid Outbreak could wreck any Team or Individual’s season at any time (causing any Trade to Backfire). When Our Ace isnt out for the year & The World Series Champs dont have an Asterisk next to their names.
Worth every penny!
As it should be. Teams pay for talent. Still hurts the Angels let him get away. Then again, he probably doesn’t develop to an ace here.
The Human Rain Delay
Fan of your posts but I disagree, I think he kinda already is an ace and will be 21 and 22 when he’s under contract still for cheap-
I think we agree though its going to take a pretty good package here
From Angels it would have to be at least Marsh Renigfro a 120-160 prospect and probably a lottery ticket to get Clevi-
I think he’s referring to the Angels trading him to CLE…
The Human Rain Delay
Oh I know Im referring to the package it would take to get him back
They don’t have a package to get him back.
Start with Adell, and then make additions.
I don’t think he’s suggesting the Angels trade for Clevinger. They let him get away by trading him to Cleveland years ago, and that if he had stayed with the Angels he probably would not have become what he is.
i like al conin
Eh, every team has those who got away. Who would have imagined him doing so well. But your point is well taken.
Yeah, Cleveland is good at getting steals from California, er the west coast in general. 1st it’s Kluber from SD Padres then Clevinger from the Angels. They get Carlos Santana back after he leaves for Sea (via philly), plus they got Franmil as well. Not bad at all for a mid market organization.
The rest of Jon Heyman’s tweet not mentioned in the post above said – The Price is ridiculous. But it should be. Connor, I am disappointed that you jumped on the word “ridiculous, without finishing his message.
Did you happen to notice the entire paragraph in this post that is devoted to explaining why Clevinger is worth a ridiculous price?
The Human Rain Delay
Good for them, it should be, but ultimately this is all just pillow talk to try and get a “fair” deal-
Ive said for weeks the returns will be soo low this year it probably doesnt make sense to move many parts –
Exceptions might be a Sea trying to get off some money with a guy like Kyle Seager eating a portion to get back a better package type deals (Basically money/payroll shifts on guys with semi-bloated contracts
Good, let the hippie Cleveland Clevinger stay put where he belongs!!!
What, no more Andujar and assorted garbage for Clevinger trade proposals?
@Javia- you laugh but the Indians wanted Tauchman, Schmidty, Garcia, and Frazier so that’s definitely not happening. Looks like their keeping Cleveland Clevinger unless they can work something out with Atlanta. Doubt it though.
@Yank4Life — as a fellow Yankee fan, we should be begging for someone like Clev being added to the team. But, from your other comments on other posts I can tell you care more about attacking people than talking baseball.
@theheretic- truthfully never liked Clev at all. The guy I want is Trevor Bauer. I know he is completely nuts. I read a report that is saying the Reds are going for it now and that it is unlikely he will be traded. Perfect pitcher for the Yankees and he would cheaper being a rental. These crazy Indian fans attack me all the time lst, trust me. And you couldn’t be more wrong. I love talking baseball.
@Yanks4Life — I truly hope we get Bauer. I think a trade situation for him is tough, but I really hope they shell out some money for him. The Yankees need more players like him to bring in a new era. They’re honestly one of the most boring clubhouses in the game
Reds are easy prey to trade with. Bauer would be great target. Them deciding to not be sellers doesn’t surprise me.
@theheretic- Bauer is definitely the type of pitcher the Yankees need to get without a doubt. He definitely needs to mend fences with Cole since they don’t like each other from their days at UCLA together. Where Gerrit knocked his work ethic and Trevor felt disrespected. Bauer is cocky but he can back that up with his pitching. So I’m okay with that. And he recently said he could definitely pitch for the Yankees if they let him pitch every fourth day. Which I respect that’s the type of workhouse we want out there. So hopefully it happens where he gets traded here. If he misbehaves we just let him go at the end of the year. No problem.
Spencer Howard, gregorious, kingery for clevinger
The Human Rain Delay
Its debatable if Kingerys pre arb 2020 “steal” of a contract isn’t underwater already- Hes looked terrible
Sure all it takes is 1 but I dont think that 1 is Cle – Perhaps they see a Jose Ramieriez breakout in Kingery but they sure wouldnt get that feeling watching his work this year
First Chernoff says he is willing to listen to offers. This is the exact phrase most GM’s would use to describe even the most valuable of of players. I’m doubtless that Anthopoulos would say it about Acuna, Eppler would say it about Trout and so on. Now we find hear from Heyman that the price is “rediculous”.
This is what it means when a GM says they are willing to listen to offers. When he presents you a counter offer, it will probably be horrifying to every team that calls on the player. If you don’t want to do something then you set the price so high it WILL make you want to do it but you also know nobody is going to pay the price.
The Indians intend to compete so this position makes since. Clevinger isn’t going anywhere. Good for the Indians. I wish ownership would invest more into the Indians because it’s not that often you end up with a rotation as fearce as theirs.
Ike & Tina??
Frazier and Ford…
Clyde and Gerald?
Brendan and Lita?
Kris Bryant and Vic Caratini?
wild bill tetley
Brenda and Dylan.
Crane and Harrison?
Frazier and Crane.
Throw in Martin and Eddie. Who says no?
Harold and Maude.
Bonnie and Clyde?
Captain and Tennille?
The Indians want a kings ransom for a player exiled off the roster for breaking health protocols and apparently do not realize that just as the Indians players may not be thrilled with Clevenger another team may nit be either
Because a team taking offers on a SP with Cy Young type stuff should start negotiating by asking for very little? They don’t need or want to trade him but will listen to offers. If even 1 player didn’t want him in that locker room he’d have never been recalled and would’ve been dealt.
If the other team isn’t thrilled with him, why are they calling about him?
A pitcher of Clevinger’s caliber with 2 yrs of control remaining after this one but with injury risk is worth a 4-5 War Position player with similar yrs of control and with a bit of a premium being a Top 100 Prospect ( 60-80 ) + 1 Lottery Ticket.
Indians are probably asking for double, thus the ridiculous comment.
As Salarycapmyth said, they likely are not really interested in trading him but if some GM was willing to make a huge overpay which i doubt anyone will .
Read Jon Heyman’s full tweet please. He calls the price ridiculous, then adds the it should be. Teams that want him will have to pay Cleveland’s price.
Ridiculous denotes just that, the price is crazy high -a gross overpay.
Should be denotes- Cleveland should be asking for a gross overpay as they do not have to trade him.
If you don’t ask, you don’t get. I’d start with a ridiculous offer and negotiate.
The Human Rain Delay
Kenta Meda was traded for the #32 prospect this offseason for perspective (Brusdar)
The Dodgers thru in a top 50 in Downs (#48) bc the Boston Media had a tantrum for the Mookie trade
Hes going to be wayyyyy more than a 60 and lottery ticket lol….
Theres a disparity currently in both camps on how prospects are valued it seems
Prospect hoarders vs trade um all Now guys and neither side is right…
Man oh man it sure be nice if people learn to read !!
I said a Position Player in the 4-5 War range with equal amount of control + the Prospect + the Lottery.
The key is to trade away a prospect that you don’t feel is top 100 but the other team does. 20 to 30 % of these top prospect lists are guys who aren’t in mine. I would guess that GM’s are the same way. They all don’t rate every prospect the same. Just have to find a gm you have a difference in opinion with.
That is the key in any transaction. Not just prospects or baseball in general. It’s basic economics: (I value the sandwich you are selling more than my $8 and the store owner values my $8 more than his sandwich).
The issue is that every team and fan base has inflated values of their own guys, because emotion gets involved and people get attached to players (not that there is anything wrong with that).
Adopting a dog from the shelter will cost upwards around $300. You probably aren’t willing to pay much more than that for a rescue. But how much would someone have to pay you for you to be willing to give up YOUR dog?
Brusdar wasn’t a top 50 prospect from any respectable outlet any longer. He is a reliever prospect whose stock was way down. No GM was valuing him as a top 50 prospect. That’s a mere fact.
Mike Clevinger and some far away lottery ticket pitcher to the Padres for Joey Lucchesi, Adrian Morejon, Gabriel Arias, Josh Naylor, Ryan Weathers and Tucupita Marcano.
They certainly have to consider a package of that value.
Cleveland’s biggest need that they would need to get in any trade now is an MLB outfielder. Naylor is another DH and he is not as good as Framil Reyes.
Cleveland wouldn’t have interest in naylor or lucchesi. Morejon maybe since he is so young with ace type stuff.
They are probably asking for 2 of gore, patino, abrams type prospects plus. Hence the word ridiculous…
Lynn seems like the better purchase.
Show me a recent trade where 6 guys were sent to another team.
They can have Joey.
The Indians wanting a “ridiculous” return for Clev tells me that they don’t really want to move him but will if someone really wants to pay the price.
And they should ask for a lot. Why give the guy away? They owe it to their fans to build the best team that they can.
So you offer minor league infielders and pitchers, which they don’t need, instead of the OFs that they do need?
If most of that haul could get Santander from the Orioles or yaz from the giants, a three team trade could be done. I think for Clevinger to be moved it’s gonna be a multi team deal, one more reason I don’t think it will happen.
…says several GMs expecting some crazy discount.
Exactly, people hoping to get a hard to find item at a scratch and dent price…
He is not the Hope Diamond either.
Angels & NL West
You can’t win without pitching – said the Angels fan.
Antonetti is a really smart guy. He isn’t about to give up a young, controllable starter without receiving a king’s ransom.
Triston looked fantastic, and I’m not even an Indians fan
I’d hold or even add if I were Cleveland. They’ve got a chance to make a run this year. The future isn’t always promised especially with a Lindor treads on the horizon.
Go for it this year and deal him and whoever else in the offseason.
Supply is less than demand, he would be the best starter available, and the team does not need to trade him. Ridiculous should be the asking price. Cleveland must be blown away or keep him. That’s the only thing that makes sense
Look, it’s not shocking that the asking price is insane. He had a lot of years of cheap control, he’s an Ace, and let’s not forget… it’s a sellers market. It’s not like there are a ton of good options out there. I get it…
As a a Red Sox fan I’m envious of the abundant pitching they have. Very.
You guys got Sale and Price
Correction, we have Sale, Price is now a Dodger.
… and Sale is on the D/L.
Indians fans have been waiting for McKenzie to make his way to the corner of Ontario and Carnegie.. He’s taken a long time from being drafted in 2016 to now.. T-Mac is a good kid with a great head on his shoulders.. Should be able to get better as he matures.. Better and stronger.. Right now, he’s about an 80 – 90 pitch pitcher.. while you’d love to see him get to triple digits on # of pitches.. that’s what he is right now.. Fortunately, T-Mac is in with a bunch of guys who like to pitch to and through the 7th inning.. keeping the pen fresh..
W/R to the Indians current farm system & truth being told.. McKenzie is actually the Indians 3rd best starting pitching prospect at this time.. The guys coming behind him are beasts.. They’re stronger, throw harder, have more advanced secondary stuff and have learned the Indians way w/r to control and command.. Daniel Espino, Ethan Hankins, Carlos Vargas, Lenny Torres and, as a dark horse, Sam Hentges can approach becoming as good as anyone the Indians currently have on the staff not named Bieber..
That said.. a deal for Clevinger.. can happen.. or may not.. the Indians are in need of an impact bat and backstops.. Atlanta fits very well.. So does SF.. The Yankees, as soon as they realize no one wants their over hyped little guy and their secondary guys could become a serious bidder as well..
propaganda, you want one of the best arms in the league you are going to have to pay a kings ransom… whether you think thats ridiculous or not.
wild bill tetley
Echoing what Bravesfan said. Have to wonder where Cleveland sees themselves in a year or two. I believe Santana’s contract ends, and then there is Lindor.
My guess is Cleveland has interest in dealing Clevinger – in the offseason. They will give in a little from the huge asking price, but they are also setting the price now to see who’s willing to reach it and how far they are willing to go.
Cleveland will be playoff contenders for next 10 years or so. Keep drafting well. Keep trading pitchers at arb 2. Hopefully get a return for Lindor. Comp picks help them as well.
@wild bill.. Santana is a fan favorite and a good all around player.. he’s become an advanced fielding 1B and team leaders.. He’ll be on the squad in 2021.. After that.. the feeling is the Indians will be moving “average” to below average fielding Nolan Jones to 1B.. where his arm won’t contribute to his mediocre defensive play. Nolan Jones bat, however, is pretty solid. The Indians have three guys stacked at each other infield position (3B, SS and 2B) but none at the level of a Lindor or JRam. Cesar Hernandez has been more than a pleasant surprise, but, not irreplaceable.. There is a chance the Indians may bring Carlos back on one year deals as long as he wants to play and or until Nolan Jones is ready to go.. IDK..
For the Indians.. catching.. is like pitching..you can never have too much.. The Indians don’t have a lot of depth there.. not much at all..
As far as the timing.. no time like the present.. especially considering the lack of high end starting pitching on the market at this specific trading deadline and the value of a guy like Clevinger.. Getting it done by Monday, while quite a push.. is not impossible.. Smoke and mirrors will be the watch phrase over the weekend and into monday.. If someone really want ‘Sunshine”, go with Rocky’s comment: “…you wanna dance you gotta pay the band.. you wanna borrow, you gotta pay the man…”
wild bill tetley
If Santana is cool with a pay cut, why not? However, replacing Lindor will be a tall task. Indians have a great luxury of pitching, without question.
Hitting and money seem to be the only obstacle for this team. Without deep pockets it is clear hitting will be addressed through trade, with pitching.
Then there is the big question: will the Indians stack their chips and go all in before Lindor leaves? I think that can be answered if Cleveland comes out and says “we are keeping Lindor”. Then go all out and load up.
I wonder if anyone has inquired about Plesac?
Ridiculous price means a team does not want to trade a player.
@James1955- and nobody’s asking them to trade him. I hope he stays right where he is. Who wants a player that doesn’t follow his team’s protocol and puts everyone’s health in jeopardy? Sounds like he just wants to do whatever he wants with no rules to follow. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way..
@Yank4Life So… 29 other teams are calling just to say “Hi”?
Don’t try to make sense of anything he says. He is a mentally challenged kid. We are started to just ignore him so he can feel validated.
I’m sorry, I think we say special needs kid now. Hard for me to keep up with the correct language these days. Hope I didn’t offend anyone.
Contreras, Alzolay, Happ for Clevinger
Who says no? Lol
Those 3 guys aren’t worth what it would cost to feed them.
Two catchers and an infielder and the Indians need MLB OF help. That offer should work.
Clevinger for Frazier Dominguez and a catching prospect. Cleveland is open to trading him due to their ability to produce pitching they’d want bats in return
Dominquez has a high ceiling but he may be at least 4 years out. He may be the Yankees top prospect , so I’m not sure that the Yankees would let him go. Frazier is a MLB OF. Seigler would be an interesting pick. If I were the Tribe I might be tempted if this was offered.
This already reminds me of all those years the Indians put out feelers to trade Kluber and then finally traded him when his value was in the tank. They don’t have the guts to move Clevinger right now at his peak and under control for 2 more years and will trade him when they have no other choice and he is close to free agency in 2022.
They’re in the same kind of limbo with Lindor right now, they don’t have the guts to move one of their team’s best players but don’t want to pay to extend him so they will end up trading them both when their values are low due to proximity to free agency.
They would be in the playoffs if the season ended today. Trading Lindor or Clevinger simply isn’t an option. It’d be like if the Dodgers traded Corey Seager or the Yankees traded DJ LeMahieu.
They had the guts to trade Bauer last season when they were in the playoff hunt. Let’s face it.. they are trying to compete now. It is hard to imagine trading Lindor and Clevinger and improving your odds of competing this year. It’s probably not a lack of guts, it is smart baseball people making smart baseball moves.
Bauer trade was great. He wasn’t as good last year. They were better off with the upgrade at dh and outfield, just Puig was weak for them. A season and 2 months of Bauer for a good DH for many years and pitching prospects. They could do same this year, just Clevinger is better this season, has extra year compared to Bauer trade. Can’t move Lindor though if trying to win this year.
Since the trade, Bauer has outproduced everyone the Indians got for him combined. That trade did not help their immediate odds of contending.
Maybe they should’ve borrowed your crystal ball, but at the time they swung that deal they certainly traded from depth (SP) to fill immediate (Puig) and long term (Reyes). Plus Bauer had totally won out his time in Cleveland and was done there after his embarrassing HR heave over the fence.
*Worn out his time*
Bauer was the worst starting pitcher in the National League after the Indians traded him last year with a 6.89 ERA and a negative WAR,The pitchers who have replaced him have most certainly out performed him since that time whether it’s Civale or Plesac.Add in Franmil Reyes numbers and your argument holds no water.
Boy am I glad you guys aren’t the GM lol…
Since the trade, Trevor Bauer has produced 1.8 WAR for the Reds. The players the Indians got back have produced 1.1 WAR for them. That trade made the Indians worse for the short term HANDS DOWN.
And as far as the Indians being able to replace him, their only starters with lower ERA’s than Bauer this year are Zach Plesac and Shane Bieber (and Plesac has caused way more problems in their clubhouse than Bauer could ever have hoped to). Just because they appear to have landed on their feet doesn’t mean losing Bauer didn’t make them worse. At this point, you guys sound like the geniuses who said last offseason that the Red Sox could make their team better for 2020 by trading Mookie Betts. Look how that one turned out LOL.
The Indians can go back and review all of our posts when selecting their next gm. I grade my trades at the time I make them. I don’t have the crystal ball, maybe Jim will lend it to me? Bauer was solid and even though they had pitchers coming up they might have kept him until his little fits became too much.
So in exchange for 1 year and 2 months of Bauer they received over 5 years of what looked to be an elite DH. 3 prospects, 2 of them left handed pitchers, and Puig. They had pitching, they needed bats. I am sure they expected Puig to hit some hrs or a hr. Bauer needed to go and with that haul he could have been the best human on the team and beloved. Also little something called cause and effect. Maybe after Bauer got run out of town, had a awful 2 months with the reds and realized he was in a contract year, he worked really hard the past 11 months. No reasoning with Jim though. He is the goat. Knows all, sees all, is all knowing. Knows the past, can see the future. Always right. Never wrong. I bow to your greatness.
Goat boy looking at things way too simplistically.
The Indians only have a set amount of dollars they were going to spend. Right or wrong that’s a fact. Moving Bauer’s dollars allowed them to not only get a cost efficient DH + prospects. But it also allowed them to sign Cesar Hernandez. And likely have some space for a deadline salary pickup.
Lovinmlb I agree with you, my crystal ball post was directed to the goat who lives his life in hindsight. The Tribe rolled the dice and did what they had to do at that time and all things considered will end up good.
What? Lol! Reyes isn’t helping?
Oddly enough, in my experience, it’s those who say things like “So you have a crystal ball?” that have the least compelling arguments to make.
“So in exchange for 1 year and 2 months of Bauer they received over 5 years of what looked to be an elite DH. 3 prospects, 2 of them left handed pitchers, and Puig.”
I know exactly what they received and it was a pretty good haul. But it was never going to help them more in 2019-20 than Bauer would have and it didn’t. I honestly don’t know why they took Puig in the deal instead of another prospect.
“Bauer needed to go…”
“Maybe after Bauer got run out of town, had a awful 2 months with the reds and realized he was in a contract year, he worked really hard the past 11 months.”
Cute theory, but in reality there is no tangible evidence that trading Bauer made the Indians better now. In fact, all the evidence we have points to the contrary.
“No reasoning with Jim though. He is the goat. Knows all, sees all, is all knowing. Knows the past, can see the future. Always right. Never wrong. I bow to your greatness.”
Leave the snark to people who are good at it buddy.
How do prospects help them win now? They don’t. The Indians don’t need prospects. They needed established players. Players like… well… Trevor Bauer. And Trevor Bauer doesn’t save them money. He costs them more money. Because when they trade him, they must replace him. And doing so will cost more $ than what Bauer is making.
@Polish Hammer they didn’t HAVE to do anything. It’s not that the Bauer trade was a bad trade for the Indians, but it was a clear win-later move at a time when their record and competitive window beckons the opposite.
Wrong! They had enough pitching, needed some pop in the batting order, spun their luck with Puig and knew Reyes was what they wanted for several years. And, Bauer finally wore out his welcome, which takes a lot for Tito to be tired of somebody. Very good trade on their part.
Want to see how trades line up I’d suggest baseballtradevalues.com
And Bauer didn’t just realize he was in a “career year” and woke up, do some homework on the guy you keep raving about.
They did not have enough pitching and Bauer wore out no welcome. Again, he has produced more WAR since the trade than everyone the Indians got in the trade COMBINED!
And I never even said that the Indians didn’t get value for him. Just that the trade made them tangibly worse for 2019 and 2020.
Bad year to trade a good talent. A lot of GM’s don’t want to part with prospects anyways. And now you don’t have the added benefit of selling more tickets, playoff games revenue. Next season is a ?. Market is going to be rentals rentals rentals. Maybe trade a change of scenery guy. I don’t see anything major going down. Salary dumps seem hard to pull off as well.
For real. Why have people kept pushing the Indians trading their core players the last 2ish years? They are literally contending. How does trading Clevinger or Lindor help them do that?
People need to stop using the word “literally” when it is not needed.
People need to stop making irrelevant, unhelpful comments… literally
And to all those saying the Indians can’t afford to let Lindor walk for nothing…
1. It wouldn’t be “nothing” because of the QO.
2. What if they win the WS with Lindor’s help this year or next?
3. “But they aren’t guaranteed to win a WS this year or next even with Lindor!” Yeah? Neither are the prospects they get from trading him guaranteed to pan out.
Eddie Nice Guy
Toronto offers Biggio, Nate Pearson and a top minor league pitcher like Woods-Richardson or Manoah, Who says ‘No’?
Jays do !! 5 x yr of Biggio, 6 x Yrs Pearson, and a Top 100 Pitcher ( SWR)
Am against a Clevinger trade. Indians still possess him for ’21 and ’22.
Concentrate on the lands: More to Cleve. A cost of Jake Bauers and another minimal prospect.
“Clevinger certainly isn’t the most popular player in the Cleveland organization in the wake of his recent off-field mistakes…..”
Insufferable Tribe Fan yet again whining.
If you consider this whining, then maybe you’re the sensitive one?
It’s natural for a team’s fans to over value one of their players but Indians fans need to be realistic .
Clevinger is not a lock down Ace as some have suggested – he’s not in the league of a deGrom , Lynn ( 2019/2020 ) etc .
Clevinger is a solid # 2 with injury risk. The past 3 yrs he has averaged 4 War per year and he is on the same pace this year based on his performance extrapolated over 32 starts. He has 2 yrs remaining after this one.
Any one thinking a Gm will give up multiple top 50 prospects along with All star level MLB talent needs to take off the rose colored glasses.
I do not think a gm would or should give up a ridiculous haul for him, I wouldn’t. But I do not think Cleveland should trade him without getting better this year and/or a ridiculous haul. It’s not just about equal value for players right now, that is an offseason evaluation. Right now it’s a playoff team that has something everyone needs and wants, but would be foolish to make everyone better unless it makes them even stronger. I agree he is a number 2, but there are some teams in the playoffs without an ace right now.
I looked through all teams that have a legit chance of making post season . Clevinger would be a #1 on 2 – Oakland and Miami .
Miami are just coming out of a rebuild so i doubt they would give up high quality prospects just yet but maybe Oakland.
A low budget team, prime example of a really good team needing to take that next step. Tampa might be another example as Clevinger would be a 1a with the injuries they’ve had.
Michael Symon’s soul Patch 2
@indiansjoe I’m of the opinion that the financial uncertainty facing any team without a huge tv conract is going to splash cold water on any blockbuster trade. In a normal season a small market team could take a major gamble if they thought they had a realistic shot at making it to the series. The ticket sales from such a run allows for extra revenue for the coming season. With that not being the case (no ticket sales), will any of these teams empty the cupboards? I really don’t think so. I think you’ll see teams swapping spare parts and expiring contracts over the next couple of days, but that’s about it.
His numbers since 2017 suggest that he’s worth every bit of the price. The injury risk is overblown and probably lingering thoughts of his tommy john surgery. His back injury last year turned out to not be as serious as thought and then there’s the freak ankle roll. Is he an Ace or #2? Whichever (semantics), he’s a quality with multiple years of control left and those don’t come cheap.
Every bit of what price? What do you think it would take to make a trade happen realistically from both sides?
What range player ( War and Control) and/or what type of prospect(s)
Josiah Gray as the centerpiece. Indians need left my OF so add Joc and a tier 2 prospect.