Cubby Fan making Cubs fans look bad with that ridiculous statement. Who the hell wants to see the pitcher bat? But even if you do like to see that, at the very least both leagues should be the same. The MLBPA isn’t going to let them remove the DH, so may as well go with the universal DH.
making Cubs fans look bad lol. chill a bit. a lot of people have this opinion and acting like its a knock on a certain fanbase when its a universal opinion is absurd.
Seriously though, boycotting because of the DH? Have they boycotted half of MLB? I’d argue that by installing the DH there WILL BE MORE OF AN EMPHASIS on team defense (inc. pitching). The best teams have the best defenses and as good of an offense LAD had last year, they were so good because they did the little things well including incredible defense (i.e. so much Mookie…dang). By allowing more teams to have more offense, the dividing line is what you can do to prevent that offense.
really? youre suggesting that most people do and should care that much about defense. fair enough, but its still the guy’s opinion and he’s entitled to it.
Everyone realizes that the NL DH might give more jobs to one-dimensional power bats, but it’s going to cost relievers and/or utility guys a roster spot, right?
They made a lot of rule changes specifically for Covid. From the 1970s through 2019, the AL and NL had the same 25 man roster despite the DH being in the AL. There were no “extra” jobs created by the DH.
If the NL DH becomes permanent in 2022 and they expand all rosters in both leagues, that’s fine, but they could just expand rosters anyway without installing the NL DH. The two aren’t related.
Ultimately, this is about prioritizing even MORE one-tool players. Some people hate watching pitchers hit, and that’s fine. I hate watching guys who can only play half the game strike out 30% of the year and hit .200. I’d rather see a 26th roster spot go to a utility guy or even a pitcher (now that LOOGYs have been outlawed), but that’s me.
The problem is pitchers are so fragile now that letting them bat or run the bases is creating an increased risk of injury. The added hilarity of watching most pitchers wave at three pitches is just an added bonus.
At least a pitcher would be getting hurt throwing the ball
Fans just want to watch professional fail at something for no reason. It slows the game down and opens your best pitchers up to injury in a fluke scenario. How many torn Achilles do you need before you give up on the fantasy that pitchers hitting is benefiting the game?
Btw, for the tradition whiners, they do realize the only reason the AL, not both leagues, got the DH was a money hungry owner, not someone caring about the tradition of the game? Of course not
I don’t see any reason why the rules need to change at all. You like the DH, watch the AL. You don’t like the DH, watch the NL. Who cares? The current system is not being unfair to aging sluggers. There’s no reason to change anything.
Big NL fan here… but asking Snellzilla and Yu to swing away isn’t why we procured them. Perhaps the Uni DH does make sense for the game now. Can’t believe I just said that… but the game has changed, why can’t my perspective? RIP double switches, you were always scrutinized, admonished… and loved.
Losing the ability to watch pitchers hit doesn’t bug me so much as having a “position” player who can’t play the field. You have late-inning defensive substitutions and relievers so you can argue that those guys are only half-players, but if you really want to prevent them from batting you have to engage at least some strategy/foresight, rather than just creating special rules so a whole class of players can ignore an entire half of the game. And I disagree entirely that the DH makes a more entertaining product. The DH lengthens games and for every Edgar Martinez at DH you’re going to have 10-20 guys who are just past their prime sluggers who can’t hit for average and strike out a ton.
You’re giving a very antiquated take on the DH. Teams no longer need a David Ortiz to have a good DH. A team that uses the DH well may have a star hitter, but most use it at a R&R day for a hitter who is dealing with a nagging injury.
Look at the dodgers. Most of their DH’s were Turner, Muncy, Seager or Bellinger. Guys penciled in to main spots, but rotating for a day off their feet. To say teams no longer use their roster because the DH is there is so outdated
@pun- And conversely, some teams will have a good DH that does help the team be more entertaining. Aged players might be able to stick longer, so long as they can still swing their stick. Most DHs can (and will) still play the field; not too many Edgar Martinez’s still around sans Pujols and Miggy… but they can contribute in the field still, if needed. Adding a roster spot to 26 seems to make sense for a Uni DH league, curious to see what we are talking about 365 days from now. The CBA might get messy; I don’t see very much smooth sailing here on out. Cheers bud, happy to watch one last year of pitchers hit here, if that ends up being the case. If not, I still prefer the NL game. Win/win to me by now.
there arent a lot of Ortiz types, which is why many fans dont care for the DH. you dont see great hitters left out in the cold every offseason simply because they can’t hit. teams want versatile players now anyway, so DH or not your chances of playing later into your 30s if you are visibly declining arent going to be great. take EE for example. if no one in the AL is going to kick the tires then should NL fans be really kicking themselves because they don’t have a DH spot for him. and by contrast, adding the DH last year didnt suddely get the Lucas Dudas and Yasiel Puigs signed. (and Puig could have found a spot even without the DH but in the end it did nothing to help him.
I’ve been told by prominent Fangraph observers that Odorizzi can’t adequately replace the great Ross Stripling as the long man, and when you have a 3-4-5 in Robbie Ray, Tanner Roark and Steven Matz, you have no room for Odorizzi. Or so I’ve been told by the smartest Jays fans around. Yes, the Jays could use Jake.
Padres have an “above average” Farm System..Cmon Connor! Padres system is a top 3 farm. We have the best pitcher who is a lefty, and the fastest rising prospect in Abrams who is only 20. Plus we have some talented young MLB talent on the current squad. If we got Yelich and Hader I imagine Abrams,Myers, and Paddack or Morejon is in the deal. I actually have proposed this in many chats months ago only to be ignored,ha.
How about because no one with any credibility has said Hader to SD, let alone Yelich? Padre fans are literally making up rumors from a nothing quote and an even bigger BS follow up tweet from some random TV personality. In the same tweet he suggested Trout would be in SD so let’s pump the brakes on you were right
Ha, fool you once…you can’t, you can’t get fooled again!
Preller could make almost any trade for any player if he wanted too not to mention teams are slashing payroll and using Covid as a reason. Yet you continue to doubt him. Is it far fetched? Maybe. Possible? Yes.
It’s not top 3. The ranking of the Padres system has fallen in the last year. That happens to every team with a highly ranked system when they start calling up their prospects.
There’s a huge difference of opinion on their ranking though. Baseball America has them higher than others at #6. Keith Law had them at 7. Prospects 1500 has them at 18. And Bleacher Report has them at 21.
Top 3? Idk about that. It’s pretty top heavy imo. Definitley well above average and in the top 8, but it simpily isn’t what it was a year or so ago because some have graduated rookie status and because of trades.
The issue I have with those advocating for the DH, is it’s solely based on preferring to see a better hitter than the pitcher batting. If it was only about that I’d be on board. But the effect of the DH goes way beyond that to the point of affecting managerial strategy.
Without the DH, the manager has to analyze whether making a double switch is worth it. With the DH it isn’t even a question. When a pitcher, who’s spot in the batting order is up in the next inning, but starts leaking oil, does the manager stick with him in order to use a pinch hitter, and not burn a reliever? With the DH, the manager just pulls the guy when he just thinks the pitcher is losing it, and if it was the right move is debatable at best. Without the DH, the manager is forced to decide whether to gamble or not, and that decision is revealed more often as actually being right or wrong.
Bunt plays can be very exciting. With a runner on 2B, does the defense employ the wheel play? And does he always bunt with less than two out, and a runner on? Or does he employ the butcher boy when the corner fielders crash? I hate to think the butcher boy or the wheel play will be something we’ll never see again, all so we can see a better hitter than the pitcher, who might hit a HR, but will more likely strike out.
my issue is a load of the people who advocate for the DH are AL fans whose viewing experience only changes during interleague and road WS games. not saying that no NL fans want the DH, but it should be a matter of what NL fans want most. the reality is, adding 15 more starters when very few great hitters are left out of starting jobs anyway is not worth the personal enjoyment that fans like I derive from seeing pitchers hit and things like the double switch. the arguments are either a matter of opinion (which are valid, but must be noted to be just that – opinions, and not universal) of that it creates more jobs. (which is factually incorrect because it just means teams will most likely just carry one less RP in favor of another bat)
The DH also brings more defense to the NL, why? Mets will play smith at first, nimmo at LF and the polar bear would be the DH, Ozuna in Atlanta won’t be playing in LF, Kyle Schwarber in Washington. More offense (good for baseball) more defense (good for baseball) pitchers focusing on pitching and not getting hurt while running the bases ( good for baseball)
“good for baseball” is such a meaningless concept. is increasing the number of runs scored by a fraction of a run per game or slighly improving the defense going to really push the needle. is it worth a fundamental change to the game?
The NL does not have the DH now, so the signings of Ozuna and Schwarber were done with the expectation that they would probably be playing in the field. And most injuries to pitchers are from throwing the ball, not running the bases.
And again, I don’t want things like the wheel, and butcher boy plays, to be things that we’ll never see again.
Bold Prediction: Nolan Arenado’s favorite candy is gummy worms
Why are you commenting on a chat link?
Why are you?
Why are you commenting on anything?
What are we yelling about?!??
LOL!
MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS
I LOVE LAMP!
Cubby Fan making Cubs fans look bad with that ridiculous statement. Who the hell wants to see the pitcher bat? But even if you do like to see that, at the very least both leagues should be the same. The MLBPA isn’t going to let them remove the DH, so may as well go with the universal DH.
making Cubs fans look bad lol. chill a bit. a lot of people have this opinion and acting like its a knock on a certain fanbase when its a universal opinion is absurd.
Seriously though, boycotting because of the DH? Have they boycotted half of MLB? I’d argue that by installing the DH there WILL BE MORE OF AN EMPHASIS on team defense (inc. pitching). The best teams have the best defenses and as good of an offense LAD had last year, they were so good because they did the little things well including incredible defense (i.e. so much Mookie…dang). By allowing more teams to have more offense, the dividing line is what you can do to prevent that offense.
really? youre suggesting that most people do and should care that much about defense. fair enough, but its still the guy’s opinion and he’s entitled to it.
@Cubby Fan: segregation was a baseball tradition also…..
i dont think segregation was just a baseball thing
Potentially bold idea: Tommy Edman and Paul DeJong are great, but everyone’s thoughts on Arenado convincing the Cards to pick up Story next offseason?
depends on how much the Cards want to pay to add him. dunno if they want to dispense that much cash for the INF.
“No. I’ve been talking to myself for the past 40 minutes.”
lmao
Jim Kaat for the Hall sighting! im on board for sure.
Tommy John for the Hall. 288 wins. Come on, man.
Everyone realizes that the NL DH might give more jobs to one-dimensional power bats, but it’s going to cost relievers and/or utility guys a roster spot, right?
26 men.
No. It won’t. Active MLB rosters were at 25 players in 2019. In 2020 they expanded them to 26 players specifically for the DH.
They made a lot of rule changes specifically for Covid. From the 1970s through 2019, the AL and NL had the same 25 man roster despite the DH being in the AL. There were no “extra” jobs created by the DH.
If the NL DH becomes permanent in 2022 and they expand all rosters in both leagues, that’s fine, but they could just expand rosters anyway without installing the NL DH. The two aren’t related.
Ultimately, this is about prioritizing even MORE one-tool players. Some people hate watching pitchers hit, and that’s fine. I hate watching guys who can only play half the game strike out 30% of the year and hit .200. I’d rather see a 26th roster spot go to a utility guy or even a pitcher (now that LOOGYs have been outlawed), but that’s me.
The problem is pitchers are so fragile now that letting them bat or run the bases is creating an increased risk of injury. The added hilarity of watching most pitchers wave at three pitches is just an added bonus.
I think throwing 98 MPH is increasing the rate of injuries a lot more than running the bases.
At least a pitcher would be getting hurt throwing the ball
Fans just want to watch professional fail at something for no reason. It slows the game down and opens your best pitchers up to injury in a fluke scenario. How many torn Achilles do you need before you give up on the fantasy that pitchers hitting is benefiting the game?
Btw, for the tradition whiners, they do realize the only reason the AL, not both leagues, got the DH was a money hungry owner, not someone caring about the tradition of the game? Of course not
I don’t see any reason why the rules need to change at all. You like the DH, watch the AL. You don’t like the DH, watch the NL. Who cares? The current system is not being unfair to aging sluggers. There’s no reason to change anything.
Big NL fan here… but asking Snellzilla and Yu to swing away isn’t why we procured them. Perhaps the Uni DH does make sense for the game now. Can’t believe I just said that… but the game has changed, why can’t my perspective? RIP double switches, you were always scrutinized, admonished… and loved.
Losing the ability to watch pitchers hit doesn’t bug me so much as having a “position” player who can’t play the field. You have late-inning defensive substitutions and relievers so you can argue that those guys are only half-players, but if you really want to prevent them from batting you have to engage at least some strategy/foresight, rather than just creating special rules so a whole class of players can ignore an entire half of the game. And I disagree entirely that the DH makes a more entertaining product. The DH lengthens games and for every Edgar Martinez at DH you’re going to have 10-20 guys who are just past their prime sluggers who can’t hit for average and strike out a ton.
You’re giving a very antiquated take on the DH. Teams no longer need a David Ortiz to have a good DH. A team that uses the DH well may have a star hitter, but most use it at a R&R day for a hitter who is dealing with a nagging injury.
Look at the dodgers. Most of their DH’s were Turner, Muncy, Seager or Bellinger. Guys penciled in to main spots, but rotating for a day off their feet. To say teams no longer use their roster because the DH is there is so outdated
@pun- And conversely, some teams will have a good DH that does help the team be more entertaining. Aged players might be able to stick longer, so long as they can still swing their stick. Most DHs can (and will) still play the field; not too many Edgar Martinez’s still around sans Pujols and Miggy… but they can contribute in the field still, if needed. Adding a roster spot to 26 seems to make sense for a Uni DH league, curious to see what we are talking about 365 days from now. The CBA might get messy; I don’t see very much smooth sailing here on out. Cheers bud, happy to watch one last year of pitchers hit here, if that ends up being the case. If not, I still prefer the NL game. Win/win to me by now.
there arent a lot of Ortiz types, which is why many fans dont care for the DH. you dont see great hitters left out in the cold every offseason simply because they can’t hit. teams want versatile players now anyway, so DH or not your chances of playing later into your 30s if you are visibly declining arent going to be great. take EE for example. if no one in the AL is going to kick the tires then should NL fans be really kicking themselves because they don’t have a DH spot for him. and by contrast, adding the DH last year didnt suddely get the Lucas Dudas and Yasiel Puigs signed. (and Puig could have found a spot even without the DH but in the end it did nothing to help him.
the active roster expansion was already in the works well prior to the DH even being discussed
the roster size isnt changing so…
Connor shattering my Odorizzi to the Phillies dreams, even though deep down I know he’s going to the Jays.
I’ve been told by prominent Fangraph observers that Odorizzi can’t adequately replace the great Ross Stripling as the long man, and when you have a 3-4-5 in Robbie Ray, Tanner Roark and Steven Matz, you have no room for Odorizzi. Or so I’ve been told by the smartest Jays fans around. Yes, the Jays could use Jake.
I won’t bet against Dombrowski getting it done.
Padres have an “above average” Farm System..Cmon Connor! Padres system is a top 3 farm. We have the best pitcher who is a lefty, and the fastest rising prospect in Abrams who is only 20. Plus we have some talented young MLB talent on the current squad. If we got Yelich and Hader I imagine Abrams,Myers, and Paddack or Morejon is in the deal. I actually have proposed this in many chats months ago only to be ignored,ha.
Yeah can’t imagine why you were ignored proposing that.
But now it’s not ignored…so what do you mean
I think what he’s saying is that your idea is not a good trade proposal…but I could be totally misunderstanding it
If 15 is average and padres 3 that is above average
How about because no one with any credibility has said Hader to SD, let alone Yelich? Padre fans are literally making up rumors from a nothing quote and an even bigger BS follow up tweet from some random TV personality. In the same tweet he suggested Trout would be in SD so let’s pump the brakes on you were right
google.com/amp/s/dodgersway.com/2021/02/25/dodgers…
It’s the biggest click bait piece of nonsense in a long time. Enjoy your free thumb up from me too
Ha, fool you once…you can’t, you can’t get fooled again!
Preller could make almost any trade for any player if he wanted too not to mention teams are slashing payroll and using Covid as a reason. Yet you continue to doubt him. Is it far fetched? Maybe. Possible? Yes.
So now your reasoning is “it could happen!”
What a fantastic way of approaching a logical question
And the Padres system hasn’t been top 3 since before Snell. Check your hyperbole
Padres2019ha:
It’s not top 3. The ranking of the Padres system has fallen in the last year. That happens to every team with a highly ranked system when they start calling up their prospects.
There’s a huge difference of opinion on their ranking though. Baseball America has them higher than others at #6. Keith Law had them at 7. Prospects 1500 has them at 18. And Bleacher Report has them at 21.
Top 3? Idk about that. It’s pretty top heavy imo. Definitley well above average and in the top 8, but it simpily isn’t what it was a year or so ago because some have graduated rookie status and because of trades.
Abraham’s, pham, paddack, campusano, and 1or 2 lower level prospects, maybe.
Yelich isnt going anywhere and suggesting it is a waste of time
As is your comment so just move along then
Gee, Yelich and Hader for Morejon. Cannot understand why the Brewers did not jump all over that. Geez! The other three would just be window dressing.
Fact: Kris Bryant is only a little more than one year older than J.D. Davis.
The issue I have with those advocating for the DH, is it’s solely based on preferring to see a better hitter than the pitcher batting. If it was only about that I’d be on board. But the effect of the DH goes way beyond that to the point of affecting managerial strategy.
Without the DH, the manager has to analyze whether making a double switch is worth it. With the DH it isn’t even a question. When a pitcher, who’s spot in the batting order is up in the next inning, but starts leaking oil, does the manager stick with him in order to use a pinch hitter, and not burn a reliever? With the DH, the manager just pulls the guy when he just thinks the pitcher is losing it, and if it was the right move is debatable at best. Without the DH, the manager is forced to decide whether to gamble or not, and that decision is revealed more often as actually being right or wrong.
Bunt plays can be very exciting. With a runner on 2B, does the defense employ the wheel play? And does he always bunt with less than two out, and a runner on? Or does he employ the butcher boy when the corner fielders crash? I hate to think the butcher boy or the wheel play will be something we’ll never see again, all so we can see a better hitter than the pitcher, who might hit a HR, but will more likely strike out.
my issue is a load of the people who advocate for the DH are AL fans whose viewing experience only changes during interleague and road WS games. not saying that no NL fans want the DH, but it should be a matter of what NL fans want most. the reality is, adding 15 more starters when very few great hitters are left out of starting jobs anyway is not worth the personal enjoyment that fans like I derive from seeing pitchers hit and things like the double switch. the arguments are either a matter of opinion (which are valid, but must be noted to be just that – opinions, and not universal) of that it creates more jobs. (which is factually incorrect because it just means teams will most likely just carry one less RP in favor of another bat)
The DH also brings more defense to the NL, why? Mets will play smith at first, nimmo at LF and the polar bear would be the DH, Ozuna in Atlanta won’t be playing in LF, Kyle Schwarber in Washington. More offense (good for baseball) more defense (good for baseball) pitchers focusing on pitching and not getting hurt while running the bases ( good for baseball)
“good for baseball” is such a meaningless concept. is increasing the number of runs scored by a fraction of a run per game or slighly improving the defense going to really push the needle. is it worth a fundamental change to the game?
MikeD26:
The NL does not have the DH now, so the signings of Ozuna and Schwarber were done with the expectation that they would probably be playing in the field. And most injuries to pitchers are from throwing the ball, not running the bases.
And again, I don’t want things like the wheel, and butcher boy plays, to be things that we’ll never see again.
If CubbyFan cries any harder he’s gonna flood Chicago