Mike Trout’s a great player, one of the best I’ve ever seen, but I’d take Junior over Trout without hesitation. Junior is probably the best I’ve ever seen (maybe Bonds if you ignore his usage).
Granted, I’ve never seen guys like Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio…I could go on and on. And all of those listed I’d take over Trout (and probably Junior).
Every one of those old-timers played against pitchers throwing 85mph fastballs who spent all off-season goofing off or working day jobs. Any current MLB all star would out perform all of the old-time legends.
You mean guys like Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Tom Seaver, Christy Mathewson, Cy Young, Lefty Grove, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller…guys who none of today’s pitchers could hold a candle to (I could list several more). Sure, if you say so.
I think you’re kind of correct. Most athletes now are, well, incredibly determined athletes. They may prioritize that over technical efficiency. The old timers helped build the foundation with years of trial and error on how to play the game at the highest level.
Mlb/NFL/NBA/NHL and other sports have much better athletes than back in the day. No question there. I also argue that players are more specific with strengths (and less focused on fundamentals). Hitting the other way, choking up, managing velocity, and other great fundamentals are nearly lost in today’s game.
There’s a lot more to playing great baseball than just hitting. But I’ve seen Trout, Bonds, Griffey Jr, ARod. Also saw Mantle, Frank Robinson, Pete Rose. But the best I ever saw was Clemente.
Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. Common fallacy : steroids made him the best.
He also went against pitchers that were incredibly roided out as well. Also, everyone would be an amazing hitter if just taking some juice would do it. That being said, I think the current gripping foreign substance has much more of an impact on the game (negatively for hitters and positively for pitchers) than roids or greenies ever did.
Non – roided Bonds was ONE OF the greatest Players of all time no doubt
But ……. add the steroids, he then became THE Best player that ever existed for a 5+ yr stretch and it’s not even really close .
Steroids are a tremendous tremendous help to the human body.
Its almost impossible to understand unless you’ve gone on and off a couple of cycles of some good juice; and Bonds had the best of that as well.
I saw Mays, Aaron, Clemente in their prime. Great players and all around best outfielders I’ve ever seen (And, yes, I saw Mantle and Williams, too). But the greatest hitter—by far—was Bonds. Whether or not he did roids, there’s never been a better hitter, and he was pretty damn good on the bases and in the field too. He should be in The Hall, along with Clemens (who I detest).
Gwynning….he leads in 3 categories….HR, BB, IBB. He leads or is in 2nd to the Babe in WAR, depending who you check with…BBR has him first and Fangraphs has him second.
Its a tough choice but I think you’d have to really define what “best hitter” means. Griffey Jr doesn’t hold a candle to Trout when it comes to getting on base but he did have years where he displayed better power. Ruth is still the best all around hitter of all time in my book. It’s not his fault he played 100 years ago. He dominated the game like no ever has or will. Bonds is close but I don’t consider him for obvious reasons.
In virtually every category and in every situation—when every pitcher and everyone in the park knew that Bonds could change the game with one swing—he did it any way. Trout and Griffey are/were great ballplayers. But if there was one man I wanted standing at the plate in a critical situation, it would be Bonds. I have never seen anyone who could not be stopped like Bonds—this was true before and after alleged steroid use. Anyone who watched him day in and day out would know he was the greatest hitter of all time.
I’m not convinced that Nick Castellanos opts out of his contract. When he signed it, people were saying that the opt-out made his contract more favorable to the Reds because it had the chance of saving them from his eventual decline years. In practice, the only way the player opts out is if the post opt-out years are viewed as an asset to his current team, rather than a liability. And the market has not been kind to DH-only types on the wrong side of 30 lately (Castellanos will turn 30 a month before the 2022 season starts).
Definitely debatable; if he is a strict DH-only type going forward then he might have 15 additional interested parties for his services next year. Do the Reds want to gamble on it?
The book on Castellanos being a strict DH is not closed. His defense has improved in the outfield every year, and this year it has been quite passable. There are teams running out worse LF defense.
He is definitely opting out. It’s only $32 mm over the next two years if he opts in. He can surely get more than that over the next 2 season in FA, and even if he gets a similar offer, the offer he will get this offseason will be better than in 2024 when he is 33. His best option no matter how you look at it is to hit FA this offseason.
Castellanos has a total of 3,811-AB of .279/.329/.482/.812 for his lifetime numbers and 233-AB of .361/.416/.635/1.031. Which do you believe and which are you trading for? He is most likely to return to normal. I personally wouldn’t pay anything close to the price of a star with 2.5 years of control that fans are trying to present him as.
Like I said. When he signed, people were saying that the opt-out made his contract more favorable for the Reds because it would potentially save them from his decline years. In other words, they were saying that his post opt-out years were a liability, not an asset, for the Reds. If the post opt-out years are seen as a liability then the chances of the player opting out are effectively zero. People said the same thing about Jason Heyward, David Price, Giancarlo Stanton, JD Martinez, etc.
FanGraphs released their updated draft prospect list earlier today. It’s a really close race. They have Mayer as the #1 draft prospect and he would be the 50th best prospect by their measure, but Henry Davis is directly behind him at #51, and Jack Leiter is at #54. It’s a really close call, but I think they end up selecting Mayer. The only thing the Pirates will spend heavily on is the draft, but, imo, the second round is going to be a lot more interesting. They could get Mayer for under slot, and then go big on spending during the 2nd round.
His spin rate really hasn’t changed all that much. His four seamer has only gained 164 RPM since 2015. That isn’t very much considering that he’s throwing a lot harder than in 2015, and usually higher MPH=higher RPM.
I’m baseball savant it shows him going up in spin rate percentile in both fastball from 50’s to 70’s, his curveball went from the 30’s to 79th percentile.
I don’t think he’s cheating, I wouldn’t bet against it though.
How do we know that better grip doesn’t help velocity too?
I looked it up and high velocity and high rpm are positively correlated.
As velocity increases, so do spin rates.
Here’s a few charts and some further explanation. drivelinebaseball.com/2016/11/spin-rate-what-we-kn…
That bullpen is disgusting that team is finished they havent been above .500 all season and the run diff isn’t trending well for them. If your advice is for others to sober up, maybe you need a stronger drink.
I agree. There are some teams that probably know they’re not going to be there in October, but the Braves shouldn’t sell. They nearly toppled the Dodgers, and like you say, there’s too much season left (and the division is not looking like it’ll be out of reach anytime soon) to punt.
Sure, they’re scuffling now, but it’s really important to view the first 60 the same as any 60 game in-season stretch, when a team has a track record of recent success to fall back on. One relatively reasonable hot stretch will do it, 7 or 8 in a row, 11 of 14, etc.
Can they win 92 games? The WC might not be possible, given the NL West, but they’re fortunate to have a better chance at the East anyway.
Braves aren’t that good 2020 played only against NL East which all were bad. They all improved Braves did not, in fact, they are a worse team than they were in 2020. Braves will end up around 500 after 162 games.
Mike Trout’s a great player, one of the best I’ve ever seen, but I’d take Junior over Trout without hesitation. Junior is probably the best I’ve ever seen (maybe Bonds if you ignore his usage).
Granted, I’ve never seen guys like Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio…I could go on and on. And all of those listed I’d take over Trout (and probably Junior).
Every one of those old-timers played against pitchers throwing 85mph fastballs who spent all off-season goofing off or working day jobs. Any current MLB all star would out perform all of the old-time legends.
You mean guys like Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Tom Seaver, Christy Mathewson, Cy Young, Lefty Grove, Warren Spahn, Bob Feller…guys who none of today’s pitchers could hold a candle to (I could list several more). Sure, if you say so.
2010-2017 Kershaw and 2021 DeGrom would like a word.
I couldn’t believe how much the Dodgers abused Koufax when I saw his pitch count totals.
It was criminal…..
drysdale as well (pretty sure he had a 206 pitch game, and several games at 180 pitches or more).
I think you’re kind of correct. Most athletes now are, well, incredibly determined athletes. They may prioritize that over technical efficiency. The old timers helped build the foundation with years of trial and error on how to play the game at the highest level.
Mlb/NFL/NBA/NHL and other sports have much better athletes than back in the day. No question there. I also argue that players are more specific with strengths (and less focused on fundamentals). Hitting the other way, choking up, managing velocity, and other great fundamentals are nearly lost in today’s game.
You lost me at “outperform all.” Just nonsense, my friend, to get a reaction. I guess it worked.
Not true…..at all. Your information is silly.
Dodger Dog:
There’s a lot more to playing great baseball than just hitting. But I’ve seen Trout, Bonds, Griffey Jr, ARod. Also saw Mantle, Frank Robinson, Pete Rose. But the best I ever saw was Clemente.
Clemente was incredible.
Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. Common fallacy : steroids made him the best.
He also went against pitchers that were incredibly roided out as well. Also, everyone would be an amazing hitter if just taking some juice would do it. That being said, I think the current gripping foreign substance has much more of an impact on the game (negatively for hitters and positively for pitchers) than roids or greenies ever did.
Non – roided Bonds was ONE OF the greatest Players of all time no doubt
But ……. add the steroids, he then became THE Best player that ever existed for a 5+ yr stretch and it’s not even really close .
Steroids are a tremendous tremendous help to the human body.
Its almost impossible to understand unless you’ve gone on and off a couple of cycles of some good juice; and Bonds had the best of that as well.
I saw Mays, Aaron, Clemente in their prime. Great players and all around best outfielders I’ve ever seen (And, yes, I saw Mantle and Williams, too). But the greatest hitter—by far—was Bonds. Whether or not he did roids, there’s never been a better hitter, and he was pretty damn good on the bases and in the field too. He should be in The Hall, along with Clemens (who I detest).
Imagine if the league didn’t black ball him. He would be the all-time leader for a bunch of categories.
He is the all-time leader in a bunch of catagories…
Gwynning….he leads in 3 categories….HR, BB, IBB. He leads or is in 2nd to the Babe in WAR, depending who you check with…BBR has him first and Fangraphs has him second.
Its a tough choice but I think you’d have to really define what “best hitter” means. Griffey Jr doesn’t hold a candle to Trout when it comes to getting on base but he did have years where he displayed better power. Ruth is still the best all around hitter of all time in my book. It’s not his fault he played 100 years ago. He dominated the game like no ever has or will. Bonds is close but I don’t consider him for obvious reasons.
In virtually every category and in every situation—when every pitcher and everyone in the park knew that Bonds could change the game with one swing—he did it any way. Trout and Griffey are/were great ballplayers. But if there was one man I wanted standing at the plate in a critical situation, it would be Bonds. I have never seen anyone who could not be stopped like Bonds—this was true before and after alleged steroid use. Anyone who watched him day in and day out would know he was the greatest hitter of all time.
No, they would not.
Ted Williams
Mike Trout has 10 years under his belt 3 MVPs Come back after 10 years and let’s talk about Junior
I’m not convinced that Nick Castellanos opts out of his contract. When he signed it, people were saying that the opt-out made his contract more favorable to the Reds because it had the chance of saving them from his eventual decline years. In practice, the only way the player opts out is if the post opt-out years are viewed as an asset to his current team, rather than a liability. And the market has not been kind to DH-only types on the wrong side of 30 lately (Castellanos will turn 30 a month before the 2022 season starts).
Definitely debatable; if he is a strict DH-only type going forward then he might have 15 additional interested parties for his services next year. Do the Reds want to gamble on it?
The book on Castellanos being a strict DH is not closed. His defense has improved in the outfield every year, and this year it has been quite passable. There are teams running out worse LF defense.
He is definitely opting out. It’s only $32 mm over the next two years if he opts in. He can surely get more than that over the next 2 season in FA, and even if he gets a similar offer, the offer he will get this offseason will be better than in 2024 when he is 33. His best option no matter how you look at it is to hit FA this offseason.
Castellanos has a total of 3,811-AB of .279/.329/.482/.812 for his lifetime numbers and 233-AB of .361/.416/.635/1.031. Which do you believe and which are you trading for? He is most likely to return to normal. I personally wouldn’t pay anything close to the price of a star with 2.5 years of control that fans are trying to present him as.
And if he does have 2.5 years of control then that means he is overpaid for those years.
Like I said. When he signed, people were saying that the opt-out made his contract more favorable for the Reds because it would potentially save them from his decline years. In other words, they were saying that his post opt-out years were a liability, not an asset, for the Reds. If the post opt-out years are seen as a liability then the chances of the player opting out are effectively zero. People said the same thing about Jason Heyward, David Price, Giancarlo Stanton, JD Martinez, etc.
Thanks Steve and have a Happy Birthday!
FanGraphs released their updated draft prospect list earlier today. It’s a really close race. They have Mayer as the #1 draft prospect and he would be the 50th best prospect by their measure, but Henry Davis is directly behind him at #51, and Jack Leiter is at #54. It’s a really close call, but I think they end up selecting Mayer. The only thing the Pirates will spend heavily on is the draft, but, imo, the second round is going to be a lot more interesting. They could get Mayer for under slot, and then go big on spending during the 2nd round.
Degrom’s armside run is nuts.
He must use Elmers as a hand lotion.
These grip enhancers have to help movement, as well as spin rate.
His spin rate really hasn’t changed all that much. His four seamer has only gained 164 RPM since 2015. That isn’t very much considering that he’s throwing a lot harder than in 2015, and usually higher MPH=higher RPM.
I’m baseball savant it shows him going up in spin rate percentile in both fastball from 50’s to 70’s, his curveball went from the 30’s to 79th percentile.
I don’t think he’s cheating, I wouldn’t bet against it though.
How do we know that better grip doesn’t help velocity too?
Actually it’s the opposite. Higher velo lower rpm
You don’t think improved grip can help velocity?
It’s common sense.
I looked it up and high velocity and high rpm are positively correlated.
As velocity increases, so do spin rates.
Here’s a few charts and some further explanation.
drivelinebaseball.com/2016/11/spin-rate-what-we-kn…
To all you weak Braves fans wanting to sell, we still have over 100 games left in the Season. Time to sober up.
That bullpen is disgusting that team is finished they havent been above .500 all season and the run diff isn’t trending well for them. If your advice is for others to sober up, maybe you need a stronger drink.
I agree. There are some teams that probably know they’re not going to be there in October, but the Braves shouldn’t sell. They nearly toppled the Dodgers, and like you say, there’s too much season left (and the division is not looking like it’ll be out of reach anytime soon) to punt.
Sure, they’re scuffling now, but it’s really important to view the first 60 the same as any 60 game in-season stretch, when a team has a track record of recent success to fall back on. One relatively reasonable hot stretch will do it, 7 or 8 in a row, 11 of 14, etc.
Can they win 92 games? The WC might not be possible, given the NL West, but they’re fortunate to have a better chance at the East anyway.
The difference is that this team just doesn’t have a lot of the players that made them good as healthy options.
Braves aren’t that good 2020 played only against NL East which all were bad. They all improved Braves did not, in fact, they are a worse team than they were in 2020. Braves will end up around 500 after 162 games.