July 2: While a deal sending Escobar to the ChiSox was in the works recently, Heyman tweets that multiple other clubs jumped into the mix this week and began showing interest, which has slowed the process. An eventual Escobar trade still feels inevitable, given his status as a pending free agent on MLB’s worst club.
June 28: The White Sox and Diamondbacks have been discussing a potential Eduardo Escobar deal for the past week, and it seems as though talks could be accelerating. USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, who initially reported the talks between the two sides, suggests in his latest notes column that the D-backs are “on the verge” of starting a sell-off that will begin with an Escobar trade. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman tweets this morning that the two sides have made “progress” in a trade that would send Escobar from the D-backs to the ChiSox — the organization that originally signed Escobar out of Venezuela back in 2006.
Escobar is a sensible target for a Sox club that has lost Nick Madrigal for the season and now faces a notable hole at second base. The 32-year-old Escobar has spent more time at third base in recent years but has logged 227 innings at second base in 2021 and carries 849 career innings at the position. He’s also emerged as a reliable source of power and, over the past six weeks, been on a tear at the plate.
The switch-hitting Escobar fell into a considerable slump in early May, with his OPS bottoming out at .655 on May 14. In 152 plate appearances since that time, he’s mashed at a .306/.342/.563 clip with 10 homers, five doubles and a triple. That hot streak has boosted his season batting line to a respectable .253/.298/.481 and bumped his 2021 home run total up to 17. Escobar’s walk rate is down to 6.1 percent — a drop of some note from its 8.2 percent peak in 2018 — and he’s striking out at a career-high 22 percent clip. That’s still below the league average in today’s brand of strikeout-centric baseball, however.
Escobar is earning $7.5MM in 2021 — the final season of a three-year, $21MM contract extension he signed with Arizona in lieu of his first trip to the free agent market back in 2018. There’s still about $3.9MM yet to be paid out on that salary between now and season’s end. While rental players aren’t always ideal for contending clubs, it’s a rather sensible route for the Sox to take with regard to their infield needs. Yoan Moncada is locked in as the long-term answer at third base in Chicago, and the White Sox expect Madrigal back in 2022.
If a deal does ultimately get pushed across the finish line, Escobar would figure to be the first of multiple additions for a White Sox team that is in first place despite several injuries to key contributors. Eloy Jimenez hasn’t played in a game this season after suffering a ruptured pectoral tendon during a Spring Training game, and Luis Robert has been out since early May with a Grade 3 hip flexor strain. Fellow outfielders Adam Eaton and Adam Engel, meanwhile, are on the shelf owing to hamstring strains — the second of the season in Engel’s case.
As for the D-backs, Escobar is one of many veteran pieces who could change hands between now and the July 30 trade deadline. Asdrubal Cabrera, another pending free agent, seems all but assured to move. Outfielder David Peralta and right-hander Merrill Kelly are both affordably signed through the 2022 season. Backup catcher Stephen Vogt and reliever Joakim Soria aren’t having their best seasons, but they’re both impending free agents with solid track records and reasonable $3.5MM salaries. Ketel Marte, of course, is the Diamondbacks’ premier trade chip, as he’s controlled all the way through the 2024 season. That said, he’s also dealing with a hamstring issue and is undergoing additional imaging today as the team continues to evaluate that injury.
Too many K’s for Escobar.
Go Frazier!!
I can’t imagine the list of guys with 17 bombs and a 22% K rate today is very high
Remember, he’s a Chisox fan. Don’t expect too many of them to live in a real world. They are constantly bombarded with overhyped perceptions from their TV crew.
Or sometimes the young boy wonder will ask his guest color guy a ‘deep thought provoking question’ like, ‘why do you think he threw a slider two times in a row’.
Well on the way. Head in a cloud. The troll of a thousand voices speaking perfectly loud. But nobody ever hears him. Or the sound he appears to make.
I love how these lizards wearing wife-beaters, sitting in recliner, picking their, nose drinking Dixie beer all of a sudden become baseball experts in reference to Front Offices, managers, scouts & yes broadcasters when they get connected to the world of make believe. Clunkheads like them is why reasonable conversations are the thing of the past, unless they are here to discuss why he’s wearing a wife-beater. He’s a 1st rate one of those kind. So just take what you read regarding the original topic with a grain of salt. They wear wife-beaters for a reason
yeah, Stone is wonderboy- keep the blanket statements coming
No Mr Atlas, you got it backwards. Benetti is boy-wonder. He announces like he is in a state of constant amazement and bewilderment. He is the complete opposite of a Vin Scully broadcast, particularly when doing a Chisox game. Stone is just a Reinsdorf shill.
Troll Sox fans all you want but leave stone out of it. He’s intelligent and fun to listen to
@Dumpster: The MAN of a thousand voices TALKING perfectly loud.
If you’re going to quote song lyrics, please take the extra minute to quote them accurately.
White Sox not trading any player. We’ll just use the farm system to win. Yall bunch of wifer-beater wearing morons that would know what a baseball was if one hit you in the face. If not yall dumba** GM wannabes there wouldn’t be any use of troll boards like this
@muzzachunka: We? What’s your job in the organization?
After years of Hawk, I can’t say a bad word about Jason Benetti — I can’t see how anyone can. He’s informative, has a good sense of humor, has a natural way of calling the game and plays off Stoney real well, in my opinion.
I don’t care if the hipsters think he’s “overly sunny” or whatever. I love our broadcast team.
welcome to 2021
Escobar has a low K rate.
This is a sarcastic comment right? Escobar has a career high k rate this year of …22% In the last 7 years he has never had higher than 20% k rate. That would mean he is striking out less than over 60% of the league.
If you think Frazier’s .367 babip is gunna hold steady in the second half of this year, then you are going to be in for a sad ride.
Frazier will cost the ChiSox a great deal more to acquire than Escobar. Escobar will be able to be had (eventually) for next to nothing in prospect cost. Frazier will cut deep to acquire. With other clubs in the running for Frazier, he may cost enough that the Sox would have to look at their MLB roster to acquire him, which would defeat the purpose of trading for him to fill injury-created holes already on the roster.
If it’s coming from the white Sox – not gonna get much for either as that farm is gutted. Maybe that’s the hold for Arizona – can’t find one player to take….
You prove the point that Frazier more desirable than Escobar!
Yeah he’s more desirable because he’s hitting so well, but his BABIP means that second half regression is almost inevitable. Still, more teams are interested with the guy hitting .320 who can play both 2B and OF positions so his price is higher. That doesn’t make him the better choice for the Sox and their farm system though.
so is mike trout
Pittsburgh is in a total rebuild and wants players with a full six years of control.
22% is high for you? I’d hate to hear your opinion of Joey Gallo if the White Sox targeted him for OF help.
Gavin Sheets being showcased – starts tonight’s game!
Now the are showcasing a 25-year-old OF with a .774 minor league OPS. For what exactly?
Holy cr*p Asdrubal Cabrera is still playing in the league? Am I losing my mind or did Asdrubal play for the Cardinals at some point?
Not even a hint of what it might take to get him?
No one you’ve ever heard of. Some B or C level dude from Winston-Salem or thereabouts.
i think he’ll get back something better than that, but it’s not going to be near Vaughn or Kelley level.
For reference, the DBacks acquired Escobar from Minnesota in 2018 as a rental player for Jhoan Duran and Gabriel Maciel, who were both on Arizona’s top 30 list at the time.
Escobar is a rental, soo…
He was a rental then too. He resigned with the Dbacks when he hit free agency
The D-Backs will pay a bit more to get him a month before the deadline. That being said he’s a rental with good power but bad contact skills. He won’t be expensive. D-Backs like to target pitching in trades and Horn would be my guess as their target. Decent lefty who should fast track to the show with a #3/#4 starter ceiling.
Is Escobar having bad contact skills a running joke or something? He’s been above average at avoiding strikeouts his entire career.
“and it seems as though talks could be accelerating.“
Discussions have been turned over to the Lollypop Guild?
I’m hearing the Dbacks want either Burger or Collins ifnot both as part of a package
It doesn’t mean it’ll ever happen. Either would be a bad deal for the Sox straight up, let alone as “part of a package.”
I remember when the White Sox won the AL Pennant in 1959. Veeck thought he needs to improve his team by trading youngsters for aging players. It was disastrous. The Sox traded away young star players Johnny Callison, Johnny Romano, Earl Battey, Don Mincher and Norman Cash. They became doormats in the American League for years!
@kroeg49
It’s true the White Sox traded away many formidable young players during Bill Veeck’s first stint as the White Sox owner. That said, they didn’t become AL “doormats” until 1968 and that only lasted for 3 seasons. Veeck repurchased the White Sox in 1975 as one of MLB’s least wealthy owners. In an attempt to adapt to the game’s new free agency he developed a “rent-a-player” model, centering on the acquisition of other clubs’ stars in their option years. This worked with some moderate success in 1977 when the team won 90 games with their collection of “Southside Hitmen”.
Btw: In addition to the players mentioned, the White Sox also lost a local pitcher named Denny McLain they had signed as an amateur free agent out of Mt. Carmel High School upon graduating in June of 1962. He finished the season pitching in the White sox lower minors. At the time, players with one year of service in the minor leagues were subject to a draft if they were not called up to the major leagues. The White Sox left McLain in the minor leagues, and he was selected off waivers by the Detroit Tigers on April 8, 1963. The rest was history, both excellent on the mound and eventually as a personal disaster with McLain’s infamous drug and gambling issues.
I wouldn’t think the WS would be too attached to Burger. He’s already 25 and has had a major injury slowdown his progression. Moncada has 3rd locked up and isn’t even a year older than Burger. Burger is starting to look like his pre-injury self but still has that hitch in his swing. He will definitely get traded since he is taking up 40 man space. Doubtful it’s for Escobar unless it’s a multi-player trade. Burger and Rutherford will probably both get traded this year. Rutherford can’t hit for power and has only meh speed and arm. They should trade both while they still have a bit of 1st round pick shine on em.
He has a .900 OPS this year in AAA. He’s still a talented hitter and 25 or 26 isn’t too old to make it to the show and have a productive career. There may not be a spot for him long-term, but I think they keep him for now to let him build value and prove he’s healthy. He’s also working out at 2B, and positional flexibility is increasing in value.
The White Sox are not inclined to move their #2 catcher in the middle of a pennant race. Zack Collins has too much value to them as the backup to Yasmani Grandal, along with his experience in catching the team’s young pitchers at various levels.
If Collins is to be included in a trade for Eduardo Escobar then veteran Diamondback catcher Stephen Vogt would most certainly be accompanying him to Chicago. Veteran reliever Joakim Soria would also make a lot of sense for the White Sox in an expanded deal which might then allow Arizona a better return along with some extra salary relief in 2021.
Btw: If the White Sox were to entertain offers for Jake Burger, Zack Collins and/or any other comparable young players/prospects in a potential midseason trade then they might as well call the Pirates and inquire about 2B/OF Adam Frazier along with some of Pittsburgh’s other short term veteran assets.
I agree with the Frazier idea. By bringing in Frazier they’ll have a right fielder next season when the team is fully healthy and another added weapon to a when healthy potent line up.
Not sure what it would take to land Frazier and Rodriguez but that would be a great deadline if they could land both.
I’m fine with one of them in the deal if Ketel Marte is involved as well. That won’t be enough, but that’s where I would start looking.
Aaron, how about Engel for Escobar?
NO!
Sources tell me Escobar will be traded for two turntables and a microphone.
Lloyd Emerson-
That’s beautiful dad.
that’s where it’s at
Hope they include some jigsaw jazz and get fresh flow then if we’re giving all that up.
Shure sounds good to me, even with my compromised hearing!
Collins no way. Burger I’d be fine with, as long as that’s it. But IMO the Sox have all the leverage here since they can just do nothing if they think the price is too high, while I assume the Dbacks want to shed that salary.
I wouldn’t trade Burger. I get that he’s had a considerable injury history, but that means trading him now could well be selling low. I’d rather trade someone above him in the pecking order (though not Vaughn unless it was part of the package for K. Marte) to get a better return than Escobar. Let Burger build value and continue to rake in the minors, while also working on his positional flexibility.
Escobar can play any IF, hits, and is reasonably salaried. More teams than the WSx are interested, so ARZ has lots of leverage.
I mean, he also has a .298 OBP, which hilariously is worse than both the guys he would be replacing. If they are asking for some real prospects I’m fine seeing him traded somewhere else, and I’m sure the Sox are too.
I know they have to give to get, but I hope they do not trade Burger for 1/2 a season of Escobar. I assumed Escobar would not cost much at all. Someone pointed out that Sheets sat out last nights game against a righty, I am hoping it might be him. I’d be fine with that. Burger seems like a really tough dude with a lot of character, has overcome a lot the past few years and is back to hitting very well like they hoped for when they drafted him. .900 OPS, he looks like he might be a DH candidate for next year or something. He might be the one guy they have who could wind up in the top 100 prospects by year end if they keep him.
jhomeslice-
I like Burger too, but I don’t see a fit for him on the team over the next few years.
For me, it’s not a matter of fit (agree on that point); it’s a matter of building his value. He’s having a nice season, but other teams would want to be sure he’s fully healthy (can’t blame them) before shelling out anyone of value to get him. Let him work on his positional versatility and proving he can rake and stay healthy for a full year. Trade him in the offseason or at next trade deadline if there’s still no future with the big league club.
Don’t think of it as half a season of Escobar. Think of it as the missing piece to a World Series title. Now, what would you give up for that?
If the White Sox could “flip” Burger into something like this it would be amazing. He had zero value for a couple of years so a well done “trade high” scenario if it happens.
Look if we’re going to flip Burger, then let us entertain the idea that he’ll never catch up to his potential and move him now before he shows the rest of the league that he can’t cut the mustard.
Don’t you mean he’ll never “Ketchup” to the rest of the league?
Only if Jace Fry is offered with that.
As long as we’re talking condiments how bout Jonathan Schoop? Would only cost you some Salt and Pepa
That was the initial ask. There is about zero chance that those are still the names being bandied about.
I’ve come around a bit on Escobar. Assuming Ketel Marte and Whit Merrifield are unavailable and/or out of the White Sox price range (prospect wise), the trade options for 2nd base are really only: Adam Frazier, Jonathan Schoop, Escobar, Asdrubel Cabrera, and maybe Josh Harrison.
Frazier would be great since he offers more production against RHP and can play the outfield, but with his career year so far this season and more teams interested in him, the price might be too high, especially if the Sox want to make more than just one trade.
Schoop’s bat is probably a bit better than Escobar’s, but Escobar offers some positional flexibility and avoids any intra-division trade issues.
Asdrubel would be fine, but it’s hard to get too enthused about a 37-year-old journeyman. And Harrison just doesn’t seem like enough of an upgrade, even if the Nationals are sellers.
I don’t think Schoop should be off the table. He’s a rental, so would be very cheap. The Tigers have no reason to keep him, the Sox wouldn’t be giving up anyone they’re likely to miss.
I’d be ok with Escobar if that’s not where the trading stops. I’d like the Sox to pick a lane: go for it this year and get at least Haniger or S. Marte, if not K. Marte, as well as Rodriguez from the Pirates, or do nothing and go for it next year. A half measure at the cost of even a lottery ticket (remember the one they sent to the Padres?) isn’t worth the risk of it blowing up in their faces.
It will take more than one player no matter who they trade for initially. Escobar is not “the answer” as some put it, true. Neither would Frazier be, by himself. I think Schwarber would be the best bat that might actually be available to trade for. And he has an OPS well over .900 against righties, which is exactly what they need. Maybe wishful thinking, but he is probably more of a possibility than anybody like Marte, Haniger, or Castellanos.
Realistically I can’t see them getting anybody all that good because they don’t have the prospects to trade for. Hahn can’t extract players from other teams without prospects they want. If they get 2 or 3 mediocre upgrades, it would still be a lot better than what they have, and might be the best they can do. Right now their bottom 4 hitters in the lineup are absolutely pitiful, way worse than mediocre. They’ve scored 3 runs or less in 7 of their last 8 games prior to the 2nd game yesterday. They need a lot of help. Escobar would be a decent start.
Largely agree, though Marte, Haniger, or Castellanos would *really* help while Escobar helps just a bit. It’s also about whom you’re replacing. Mendick is a terrific fielder, so that has to be weighed in against any replacement. As you say, Escobar is a decent start; if it doesn’t end there, I’m fine. If it doesn’t go there, I’m fine. My only problem will be if that’s all they do.
No disagreement that those 3 would help in a huge way. But hard to see them having the prospects to trade for any of them. Marte would be the one guy I would actually trade Vaughn for. Marte might be the better long term player anyway, plus under cheap contract through 2024. Crochet I would not call untouchable either, simply because realistically he is the poster child of someone who will likely need TJ surgery in the next couple years. To get one of those 3 you mentioned, they are going to have to give up Vaughn or Crochet almost undoubtedly. I don’t think likely.
I had assumed Escobar would be cheap, but someone suggested Burger rumored as part of a package. I wouldn’t make that trade, not for 1/2 a season unless it was 1/2 a season of Castellanos or Schwarber. Even then, I’m partial to Burger, I think is a high character dude who is likely to be an MLB success. He is doing so well this year at AAA (and getting better recently) after missing like 3 years that I could see him being in top 100 by year end, and their full time DH next year.
Haniger is only controlled through next year and the M’s have a lot of top OF prospects/young stars. They probably won’t contend next year, and so won’t need Haniger. He wouldn’t be cheap, but according to BTV, he has a surplus value of 17.1. Sox could send Sheets (M’s aren’t deep there), one of Collins or Yermin (not deep at C, though Raleigh looks like a solid prospect), and young pitching. It wouldn’t be cheap, but they could get it done while keeping their best young stars.
Castellanos is a little trickier. He has the opt out after this year, so could be a rental, but with the uncertainty regarding the CBA or with a terrible injury (like Naylor’s), could decline that opt out. With the way he’s hitting, I’d expect him to opt out, but whether the Reds then treat his value like he’s a rental remains to be seen. If they do, he should be fairly affordable, too.
Marte would be expensive, but he’s proven, young, and cost-controlled. The Sox could make it happen, but it’ll sting.
Moose is out there. And Sox might actually acquire a prospect for taking him on.
Moose Skowron? Loved him. Can he still rake?
I’m hearing AZ wants Collins and Burger as part of the package- seems high to me!
You already said this once, you seem high to me.
You say that like it’s a bad thing! Sorry I didn’t think it went through.
They’ll never get that for a rental. Especially not Collins.
How about burger and laz Rivera for Merrill Kelly and Eduardo Escobar
i think you need to add a better second piece coming from Chicago for that to work.
Merrill Kelly would be a depth piece, so i don’t think he makes sense. The dbacks will want more than the sox should be willing to give. The Sox 5th starter is an all star this year (Rodon), so that’s the one place they don’t need help. Ig Kopech doesn’t come back, i suppose kelly could fill that role but again, arizona can get more trading them separately imo.
I was thinking the White Sox might have been showcasing Jimmy Lambert yesterday, especially when they sent him out for a second inning. Well, that didn’t work out so well.
Seems like Jimmy Lamberts audition went well. “Look ma! I can give up runs too. Pick me! Pick me!”
Adam Frazier, Eduardo Escobar and Jonathan Schoop each make sense for the White Sox in a midseason trade to shore up both 2B and their batting order for the stretch run and into the postseason. A deal for any one of these players could also be expanded to include some bullpen help in 2021.
Of the three, I’d prefer Schoop. His rental status makes him cheap, like Escobar, but a little better bat at the expense of a little worse defense. Mendick can be kept to be a late-inning defensive replacement. Escobar a close second. I’m honestly not high on Frazier. He seems to be having a career year, so it feels like buying high. He’s the best player of the 3, but I’m not sure he’d be a good value.
As for BP help, Richard Rodriguez would fit the bill nicely, but he’s controllable for two more years, so the price would be significant. Who were you thinking about for the BP?
Pirates: Closer Richard Rodríguez would cost assets but is also 31-years old. He’s be a great RHP setup man for Liam Hendricks. Perhaps David Bednar. He’s a ‘late blooming’ 26-year old righty who can throw strikes but is prone to the long ball.
Diamondbacks: Joakim Soria would also provide the White Sox with a proven veteran RHP for the backend of their bullpen. Soria was great for the still rebuilding 2018 White Sox before they flipped him to the Brewers ahead of the summer trade deadline for two minor league prospects, Kodi Medeiros (AAA) and Wilber Perez (A+) who are still with the organization. Caleb Smith would be an intriguing power lefty swingman for the White Sox. Perhaps pitching coach Ethan Katz could clean up his command issues.
Tigers: At 32, José Cisnero is a real ‘late blooming’ righty reliever who has been increasingly better and now excellent in the Tigers bullpen since they signed him off the free agent scrap heap during the 2018-2019 offseason. Maybe the White Sox would take a flyer on pending FA lefty reliever Daniel Norris in a potential Jonathan Schoop trade.
I think it’s too early to see how some of these crafty P’s react to sticky substance umpire shakedowns.
We don’t know who can pitch without the illegal sticky substances.
Too wordy. We all know who Joakim Soria is.
First, Schoop is an above average defensive 2B, and Escobar hasn’t been playing 2B, so assuming Escobar will be better defensively is a stretch. Second, Schoop has been a big part of the Tigers offense, and teaching the young kids to win. He’s also affordable. The Tigers will be reluctant to move him, and many teams will be interested. He won’t be cheap.
Escobar is not only a solid player, he is a clubhouse leader and a fan favorite. He has performed many community service projects because he loves doing them, not for the attention. It appears all but certain his days in Arizona are nearly over, but I am glad Escobar spent part of his career (2018-21) as a Diamondback.
Awesome, Escobar seems like a good dude. I don’t think you are implying this, but in case you are, that won’t have much, if anything, to do with the return they get.
The D-Backs are not looking, I’m sure, to pay any of Escobar’s remaining salary. So that will affect the return in prospects. The prospects included in the deal need to have some upside, but not in the top ten.
Escobar is a super good dude. I wish I could share a heartwarming story about him but respect his privacy.
Great. Escobar is stellar with the community. Trade for him so he can repair potholes, fix broken streetlights, rescue cats out of trees, and walk old ladies across Halsted. The greater Bridgeport neighborhood assn approves.
In 10 years we will see a Diamondbacks/Orioles World Series.
Yeah, if the Dodgers and Yankees and Red Sox and Giants suddenly become poor. But that is not likely to happen. The AL East and NL West are not the divisions where you bet on a big farm system carrying a team. The Padres had one of the best farm systems in the last 20 years and they can’t get out of third place. Same for the Jays. A great farm system in either Central division will run away with things just because there are no big spenders. The NL East and AL West have the Angels and Mets, but honestly they don’t spend their money wisely usually, so there is a chance in those divisions too. But the Yankees and Dodgers are always going to be hard to beat, because they are rich AND good at what they do.
They will both get through as Wild Cards in an expanded postseason.
Also, the Yankees and their huge payroll haven’t reached the World Series since 2009. Since then the Royals have reached the World Series twice and the Indians and Rays have reached the World once each…even though Tampa’s recent pennant was in a 60-game season. Payroll isn’t everything.
The Padres and Blue Jays are both just starting to get anything out of those top farm systems. You’ll have to wait for at least 2-4 years to say it won’t work. Maybe one wave of their top prospects isn’t enough, but what happens when those second and third waves start graduating to the majors?
Padres have/had a good farm system and they also currently sport the 8th highest payroll, higher than the Giants.
i dunno about this O’s rebuild if im honest
Only if Steve Stone comes out of retirement!
More likely to see an Angels pitcher hurling on mound at Yankee stadium.
Sheets or Lambert, fine… But not much/any more imo
I could live with Lambert. Would prefer to keep Sheets, especially as he may be the Sox’ next OF. With the way their injuries are stacking up, they may have to put Yermin in the OF before the year’s over. smh.
kinda surprised they haven’t given him a proper look yet, either for the potential MLB production, or as a showcase.
I think they might have if they weren’t involved in a closer than expected race with Cleveland. These injuries have wrecked the offense and it’s really been the rotation and a few of the BP guys who have kept the team afloat.
Escobar is a big batch of meh…. trading much beyond Lambert and a six pack of Gatorade is too much. And that might be overvaluing Escobar..
Yeah, those 3 WAR players on cheap, short contracts grow on trees, amirite??? LOL
Escobar has been a 3 WAR player once in his 11 year career. He averages 2.1 WAR a year. He has already generated 1.5 WAR this year. His contract at this point would be roughly 5m for the Sox to pay for somewhere between .6 WAR, or just above replacement level and 1.5 WAR in return.
They shouldn’t be giving up much at all to get 1~ish WAR and spending 5m to do it.
I’m kind of glad the Sox don’t want Frazier. As a Bucs fan I believe we can get a decent package of prospects for Frazier. Especially if they package him with say Tyler Anderson. I don’t think it’ll fetch and teams top 5 or even 10 prospects. Maybe a good package of young, top 11-20 prospects.
Who says Sox don’t want Frazier?!
This Escobar talk is a diversion for what’s really going on in trade talks.
Honestly, that was my biggest hope with Nightengale reporting. He’s wrong so much more than he’s right that I’m hoping something bigger is in the works (for the right price, of course).
Want and want to pay for are to different things….
So are pay for and overpay for…
Get Fraizer just to b slap Spanky Eaton.
This is just the WS dragging their feet until they miss their target. Maybe they should sign some Escobar relatives. That should make them favorites to trade for him.
I think White Sox fans are a little too attached to Jake Burger from what I’m reading. It’s natural to overvalue your own prospects a bit, but I don’t see Burger’s true MLB value being nearly as high as White Sox fans might think. Burger’s also heavily blocked long term.
Escobar vs. Scoop, I’d probably favor Escobar for his defense and he hits RHP a lot better. Scoop has some pretty extreme splits, and honestly, the White Sox are probably less interested in moving talent to the Tigers considering Detroit is already likely to be the White Sox’s chief competitors in a year or two.
No, KC is further along in their rebuild. Detroit is at least two years away, maybe three. Plus, Torkelson aside, how many good offensive prospects do they have? The pitching ought to be fine, but if you can’t score, it doesn’t matter much.
I agree.
Burger has proven to be a defensive liability, which puts him in the same logjam as Abreu, Eloy, Mercedes, Sheets and Vaughn.
They can’t keep all of them, and Burger is arguably the least versatile, because he’s looking like a DH/1b player.
I wouldn’t hesitate to trade him, because they don’t have a place for him on the roster.
When exactly has Burger proven to be a defensive liability?
I’m not saying he won’t be, but to say he has “proven” that after not playing competitive baseball for 3+ years, jumping from A-ball to AAA, and trying to learn how to play 2B seems like quite the stretch. At least give the guy an opportunity before writing him off.
Agree with you on that, priggs. I don’t really know if he is a good or bad defensive player but it’s hard to be proven as a liability in the minors. Sure, the numbers don’t look great (fielding percentage, etc) but there is a difference playing on those fields. I’m sure any team looking at him (or anyone) has much more of an in depth scouting report than we would have.
And Max, to your point, not having a place for him on the roster is a good thing, isn’t it???
If the White Sox are looking to re-acquire a middle infielder they’ve given away, why not Semien or Tatis?
Or Nellie Fox. Ray Durham.
Omar Vizquel can still play at 54!
They’re holding out for a Yolmer reunion.
Todd Frazier.
I hear the Chubs are looking for starting pitching. Maybe they should package a couple of prospects and get Jose Quintana back for a pennant run.
You think the Cubs could get him? That would be great. What would it cost I wonder.
I don’t think fans are overvaluing Burger…there is a reason why he was a #1 choice and he’s had 2 seasons of injuries and is finally healthy. Arizona will most certainly do a PTBNL scenario with the CWS which will be dependent on Escobar’s performance. Maybe they take Rutherford for now and the other player is PTBNL.
There is really no leverage advantage here. Escobar isn’t worth a whole lot beyond a club taking on his full remaining salary due. He’s also recently been hurt, so no sense in AZ getting cute/overplaying their hand like he’s a huge difference maker. That and a low level prospect is a meh good enough trade for both.
I’m fine with an Escobar trade. Any trade that doesn’t mess with the Sox future works with me.
The problem the Sox have is they don’t have enough to trade for more than a cheap rental unless they take away from their future core. No to Vaughn getting traded, because they may very well need him at 1B after ’22. Is Abreu battling though an injury (before his IL injury) or did he hit that brick wall guys at his age have done recently (ex. Pujols and Miggy)? Hopefully it’s the former and not the latter, but it is a legitimate concern.
I don’t even want them trading Collins either, now or after the season. He has very little trade value as a poor hitting C, might as well keep him and see if he develops into a good C (or at least until they have to replace Grandal after ’23).
Really, all they have to trade are the 20 y.o. P’s, Sheets, maybe Burger, maybe Lambert, and possibly Adolfo. BTW I don’t understand why they haven’t promoted Adolfo to AAA (much like I don’t understand why they haven’t promoted Sheets to Chicago). Unless they somehow think Adolfo will have more trade value by keeping him raking in AA as opposed to him struggling in AAA. Hey, it only has to make sense to them.
As for going for broke this year, sure you don’t get very chances at winning it all, and I’ll be the first to say you have to win the first WS before thinking about multiple WS rings. But if you make moves like you only have one chance to win it all, then most likely you will only have one chance to win it all.
One more thing about Vaughn. His trade value obviously is not at its peak, when him struggling so far. He hasn’t been bad, especially for someone with only half a season of A ball learning a new position. But still, he won’t even sniff the top 5 for ROY voting, unless by some luck things click after the ASB and he goes crazy hitting.
I would hate to see the Sox get fleeced by selling very low on him, when he could potentially be the best hitter on the Sox when/if he figures it out at the plate. I think it would be extremely foolish to trade Vaughn, especially right now.
Getting Escobar is fine right now. See where Eloy and Robert are a month from now, then act accordingly. What they need is for guys like Yoan, Abreu (when he returns), TA, Vaughn, Grandal, Yermin to get it going again. That will solve a lot of it.
The only guy it might make sense to trade Vaughn for is Marte. Heck of a player, would be with them at cheap salary for 3 1/2 years. That’s not selling low on Vaughn, just getting good value in return. If Vaughn goes on to be a beast of a hitter, he still does not offer much defensively, so they will have gotten a very good player, and a much improved chance at a title this year (and probably next) because Vaughn cannot do a thing against righties, and that is unlikely to change between now and October, or be a strength of his next year. Other than Marte, I cannot see them dealing him at all. They are surely not going to deal him for a rental even if it is someone like Castellanos. At least I would hope there is nothing to worry about there.
I just hope they get Escobar with no overpay, soon, and have another deal or two lined up to follow.
Vaughn’s barrel rate, exit velo and plate discipline suggest significant upside. Listen to the Big Hurt gush about his promise and how his hitting profile compares favorably to his own profile: contact guy whose power developed over time. Don’t see Vaughn going anywhere.
Name a white Sox player that the big hurt, does NOT gush over? It’s a condition of employment.
Top prospects get most of their work in at AA. AAA us more for organizational depth and tweeners. And Micker is why I wouldn’t go out and get an additional few weeks of OF depth. Gonzalez looked perfectly serviceable this weekend. Between them and Sheets, and Leury + the law firm of Goodwin Lamb and Hamilton, theres enough bodies until Eloy and Robert eventually return.
i think Escobar would be a fine addition but not at an overpay.. the writers seem to think the white sox situation is one of “desperation”.. I think Mendick and Garcia handle the position well enough for now as long as everyone else does their job !
It is a desperate situation. Your top five outfielders are on the DL and so is your best contact hitter who happens to have been your starting second baseman. He’s not coming back and neither is Robert. They need bats desperately. I’d like to see them pick up both Asdrubal and Escobar. That’s almost 5 million off the books for the d-backs. Both of the players I’ve mentioned from Arizona can play right side infield and Jose can DH some as he’s really banged up. Use Vaughn Goodwin Mendick and Garcia in the outfield and hope the Adam’s Hamilton and eventually even Eloy can return for a playoff push. This is a good team but with six bats on the DL reinforcements are needed. And yes even Hamilton was contributing before he went on the DL. TLR knows how to use him in later innings and as a spot starter when the other teams starter is a better match for him. Escobar and Asdrubal are rental players and with the salaries being taken on the prospects being sent won’t be much. No it won’t be a Tatis caliber player.
Very insightful analysis RJN. But note, even 17 yr old Tatis Jr wasn’t considered a Tatis caliber player at the time.
It depends what the AZ GM is looking for and how long his rebuild window is. The CWS could trade some 2021 or 2022 players that are ready like Sheets, Gonzalez or maybe a Rutherford or Adolfo. All of those could be plug in now to AZs line up and see how they do. Or they could reach for some 18-20 year olds like Bailey, Sosa, etc.
I would think a gold glove type in Frazier plus the contact hitter would be what cws are looking for more than a power guy. Also Frazier plays pretty good outfield. Seem like these are the qualities that ces are in need of, or alot of other teams
Desperate. But not serious.
Will be sad to see Escobar go, but it needs to happen and the White Sox will greatly benefit! I wonder what AZ will get for him.
The ironic part is Escobar is playing 2B tonight
Frazier didn’t start tonight.
But did PH.
Trade piece that Pitt doesn’t want injured.
Isn’t that ironic. Like rain. On your wedding day
That’s not any more “ironic” than rain on your wedding day!
Interesting, maybe.
Oops. Second!
This trade is taking too long.
You should see Bob Nightingale when he’s on the can, trying to relieve himself.
Braves should pick up Soria. Won’t cost much, and he’s better than his performance thus far.
The Diamondbacks pitcher to get is Caleb Smith. A talented lefty who can either start or be a multi-inning reliever. He’s been effective since returning to the rotation and looked really good recently in six shutout innings against the Dodgers: 6 IP, 1 H, 5 SO. He walked four but induced three DP grounders and would have had a fourth if not for a routine play booted by Asdrubal Cabrera.
Before that, he was having a solid season out of the bullpen with nine outings of two or more innings. His current contract is $1.45M, and he won’t be a FA until after the 2023 season. Worth a two-prospect package headed by a decent one. I wouldn’t mind seeing him on the Dodgers.
I don’t disagree…question is which two prospects would the Dodgers give up?
Caleb is one of my favorites for the Yanks to pick up.
If Nightingale says it’s Escobar then that guarantees the Sox get Peralta.
Nightengale’s tweet Saturday night (technically 12:09am Sunday morning):
“Eduardo Escobar, 4-for-5 with a double and homer, and 5 RBI, and soon on his way from the #Dbacks to the #WhiteSox, is about to end the #Dbacks’ 24-game road losing streak before he departs. They are up 10-0 in the 8th over the #Padres.”
For a deal that seems imminent according to Nightengale’s tweet, they’re sure taking their time getting this deal done. I guess they have 33 more days to get the deal done, so why rush it? Whenever they finally get the deal done, Nightengale called it first, and that’s what really matters.
It’s Nightengale, so “if” not “whenever”. But that aside, I’m starting to worry about the cost. If it was someone lower in the Sox’ system that they wouldn’t really miss, the deal would be done by now. The longer it goes on, the higher I fear the price is. Escobar’s really not worth all that much.
He is inexpensive and you are buying post-season hardware here…just how far do you want to go to get that parade too?
@hyraxwithaflamethrower
I agree, Escobar isn’t worth that much, that’s why I’m fine with him as the 2B rental. If the cost is going to be uncomfortable, they need to pass on him and save that cost for a better 2B. That or just roll with Leury/Mendick the rest of the season. Ideally I’d rather they upgrade at 2B, but I can live with Leury/Mendick at 2B.
Me, too. It’s our OF that’s been devastated. At least Mendick provides excellent defense. And Schoop should have a similar price tag and similar overall value. If the D’backs are asking too much, they should switch targets if they really need a 2B this year.
Please get this done…and soon. Not that I really care about either team, I’m just tired of the “news” of it being in progress.
You can have Sogard for some SpiderTack
No one outside of Burger, Sheets and Rodriguez seems to be doing well this year in the white sox T30 (Already weak farm after utilizing to build a good ML team). For those who are claiming you never would trade Burger or White, how do you think you’re going to get Escobar? Escobar wont require a ton, but he’s a power bat that can play multiple pos you’re not going to be able to send trash or “reclamation” prospects for him.
It’s tough to judge prospects based on a part season of 2021 minor league baseball and in the midst of a pandemic, especially younger teenage ones signed out of high school or as international free agents. The White Sox have some very appealing young prep pitchers who were recent high draft selections as well as some decent young international infield and outfield prospects. Some might consider them ‘lottery picks’ but the same could be said for Fernando Tatis Jr. when he was dealt to the Padres in the infamous James Shields trade.
@Aaron Sapoznik
My two cents worth on their farm system:
The Sox farm system doesn’t look appealing right now, but may look far more appealing in 2 or 3 years, with the players you alluded to. And it’s natural for that to happen when all your top prospects are in MLB and the team is now out of rebuilding mode.
The Sox won’t be able to do much with the next few (or several) drafts because they will be picking much higher. Most likely they will get 1 or 2 chances at a good prospect. Unless you’re one of those small market teams that get extra picks each year or you draft in the top 10, you’re lucky if you get 2 or 3 quality picks a draft. Sometimes you completely whiff on the draft, as the Sox have quite a few times in the past. That’s why it’s important that the Sox have taken full advantage of the int’l signings like Robert, Cespedes, and (soon to be) Colas.
As for Tatis, the only reason anyone heard of him when he got traded was his father, otherwise he was a dime a dozen lottery ticket. Expect that lottery ticket was the equivalent of winning the $1 billion powerball. Tatis is great for the game, but I still cringe when I see him do so well.
Tatis is a star.
He’s also made of glass, and plays recklessly.
He may never stay healthy enough to justify his contract.
Yes The most prominent knowledge regarding Fernando Tatis Jr. was in regards to his father. He also never played an official game for any White Sox affiliate. That said, Tatis Jr. was signed to an $825k bonus as a 16-year old in the 2016 international class, the same one in which the team inked OF Franklin Reyes to a $1.5 MM bonus. Reyes also has genetic baseball lines as the younger brother of Indians slugging OF Franmil Reyes.
Tatis Jr. was also rated as the #27 international prospect from that 2016 class and had barely cracked the White Sox top-30 prospect list at the time of the infamous James Shields trade on June 14th, 2016 when he was 17. Since then, the White Sox have also signed his younger brother Elijah as an international free agent. Elijah Tatis is making his stateside pro debut in the new ACL in Arizona after struggling in the DSL before the the pandemic struck down all minor league operations last year.
It’s been 3 weeks and Arizona still can’t find one prospect from CWS farm worth taking lol
Looking at AZ’s record, maybe they just can’t evaluate talent.
@bot
That’s OK, I don’t mind them holding on to Cespedes, Sheets, Adolfo, Burger, Kelley, Thompson, Dalquist, and Vera and see how they develop. There’s 8 prospects right there that are intriguing.
Cespedes and his .229/.339/.479 batting line with a 42% SO% while being 23 in A+, yeah you can keep him lol. Or Kelly/Thompson with a 11 and 8.5 BB/9 respectively. All small sample size, but not exactly impressive signs.
Those anxious to see this trade happen may not have long to wait…the Dbacks just called up 2b Andrew Young from AAA Reno. It’s a pretty crowded Inf now for the Dbacks, so a trade may happen today.
I know there’s a lot of ifs involved and there’s quite a bit of time between now and then, but reading that possibly in about 4 or 5 weeks, Robert could go on his rehab assignment (around the time Eloy could also). Again, huge ifs, but the possibility has suddenly become real that they both could be playing in Chicago on (or even before) Sept 1. That would be an enormous jolt to their playoff chances.
If they both make it back by then, I’m not expecting a ton from either in Sept, but the key would be that they have all of Sept to shake the rust off. A month is enough time to get their timing down so they can do some damage in Oct.
Again, enormous ifs, and anything can happen between now and Sept, but it’s about time this team got some promising news regarding injuries. They just need to keep hanging on to 1st place.
I was talking to Tim and he said Stuart doesn’t think Robert and Eloy will be back, but Jeff said maybe.
Not the Diamondbacks
Amateurish stuff here. Hahn wasn’t offering much in the way of a prospect beyond taking on rental Escobar’s salary, as he shouldn’t. AZ GM thought they were desperate, only to see its division lead balloon to 5 games…..oops. Turning Rutherford or Adolfo into a player is probably as good as they’ll be offered, not Burger/Sheets/the recently drafted HS pitchers. Sox know these guys are better used as potential trade chips for significant bullpen upgrades or OF that becomes available.
Kudos to Hahn to hold ground and bring up Sheets and Burger for a little exposure. Both seem MLB ready and by bringing them up you only increase their value if the play at least replacement value. You might see Hahn flip a Mercedes and Rutherford for bullpen help and even a Eaton to a contender in need of OF help for a prospect.
The best DBACKS trade was Dansby Swanson and Ender Incarcion for Shelby Miller, who knows what they’ll do
I’ve seen a few people that are fairly plugged in throw around Jimmy Lambert and Konnor Pilkington’s name a bit in relation to the Sox acquiring Escobar. Rumor has it the D-backs wanted Zack Collins but Hahn and the White Sox wouldn’t include him so the D-backs are trying to drum up interest on Escobar elsewhere.
If I had to guess what it’ll cost — assuming the White Sox can swing the deal — I’ll say that we send Arizona Konnor Pilkington, and D.J. Gladney for Eduardo Escobar.
So Dbacks gauged what the ChiSox would pay, then leaked the trade was close, got other teams involved, and are trying to get more from Chicago
Gotta love the hotstove