With Craig Counsell no longer under contract as manager of the Brewers and strong interest from other clubs, there has been much speculation about what factors he will be taking into account in deciding where to go for 2024. Per a report from Curt Hogg and Todd Rosiak of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, he is looking to reset the market for managers in terms of salary. Though the interest from the Mets will likely lead to a hefty offer, it seems he will give the Brewers a chance to match that figure.
Counsell is in high demand due to his successful track record as a skipper. He took over as the bench boss for Brewers when they were at a weak point and saw the results gradually improve in his first few seasons, winning 61, 73 and 86 games in his first three campaigns from 2015 to 2017. Since then, the club went on to qualify for the postseason in five of the past six years, despite the club generally having payrolls on the lower end of the league.
That success had garnered him interviews with the Mets and Guardians for their managerial vacancies. The Astros also have interest but it seems they are planning to take their time in their hiring process, which may prevent them from having a shot with Counsell. The fit with the Mets has been speculated upon since David Stearns left the Brewers to become president of baseball operations with the Mets. Given that Stearns and Counsell spent so much time working together, it’s been assumed by many that Stearns would poach Counsell and bring him to Queens.
Despite that outside interest, there would be logic to Counsell preferring to stay in Milwaukee, given his longstanding ties to the region. He grew up in Wisconsin and his father worked for the Brewers. Craig then spent part of his playing career with the club before his managerial career began.
Per the report from Hogg and Rosiak, Counsell is motivated by pushing the market forward in terms of manager salaries, particularly in smaller markets. Although Joe Torre once secured a salary of $8MM when managing the Yankees in the past, the market has apparently softened since then. It has been reported that Terry Francona had the highest salary of any manager in the league in 2023. Previous reports stated his contract with the Guardians had an average annual value of $4.5MM but Hogg and Rosiak relay that it was an even $5MM in 2023.
Counsell himself wasn’t too far off, getting $3.5MM from the Brewers in 2023, but he is now looking to “at least double” that figure next year, per Hogg and Rosiak. It wouldn’t be a shock if the Mets stepped up with the offer of $7MM that Counsell appears to be seeking. Owner Steve Cohen has quickly earned a spendthrift reputation since buying the Mets, seemingly to have little hesitation about plonking down money when he wants something.
But that may not be enough in this case. Per the report, Counsell will return to Milwaukee with whatever offer he has in hand and give the Brewers a chance to match it. If they are willing to do so, he will “almost certainly” stay in Milwaukee, but he doesn’t appear willing to take a hometown discount. The Brewers reportedly offered him a raise at the end of the season but it seems it wasn’t enough to prevent him from sniffing around and seeing what else is available to him.
Whether the Brewers will match the Mets is a fair question to ask. The club generally walks a fine line when it comes to payroll, occasionally having to make tough roster decisions based on money rather than targeting optimal on-field alignments. The most infamous example of this was the trade of Josh Hader, who was flipped to San Diego as his salary increased, with the club hoping the less-expensive Taylor Rogers could pick up the slack while other cheaper players bolstered other parts of the roster.
It has been speculated that another such trade could be coming this winter, with Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff and Willy Adames each about to enter their respective final arbitration seasons with projected eight-figure salaries. Woodruff’s injury may complicate that matter, but the point remains that it may be tough for a penny-pinching club to have the most expensive manager in the league.
Resolution may not take much longer, as a decision is “likely” by the end of the general manager meetings, which run from November 7 to 9.
Counsell aiming to become the Moses of MLB managers.
I just don’t see it. He manages in what typically is a weaker division and while getting his team to the playoffs, they’ve never gone to the WS.
It’s hilarious to think that Counsell is doing this for the betterment of others.
” he is looking to reset the market for managers in terms of salary….”
—No, he’s really not. He’s looking to maximize his own salary.
If I were his advisor, I woukd Counsell him to get as much as he can.
I don’t think that what the Brewers spend for payroll has any impact on what they pay Counsell. Totally different animals. I’m guessing the Brewers will match the salary the Mets offer up to a certain level, but might shy away if it goes much over $7mm.
This probably won’t “reset” what managers are paid; Counsell’s situation is rather unique. Hope he stays home.
The problem with the Brewers matching his salary is that at best, they get him back without Stearns still there – and you hope the team continues to do what they’ve been doing already.
How much of that success was due to the strategy that Stearns established in his years there vs how much was due to the presence of Counsell as manager? I think both are exceptional at their jobs. The Brewers could justify hiring someone like Vogt for $8m-$9m less and using that $ towards their roster.
However a different team bringing in Counsell will believe he will improve them from where they already are, and if it’s a bigger market like Mets, it’s a lot easier to justify a substantial salary for a manager. Counsell would be the Brewers 4th or 5th most expensive contract. That’s kinda nuts.
I don’t think Stearns likely did squat this year, if that helps answer your question. I think the Brewers more or less paid him to sit at home since he wanted to go to the Mets and they didn’t plan to release him to. He stepped down from POBO into an “advisory” role because he “wanted to spend time” with his family, and then immediately took the same job as expected with the Mets, where it’ll be an even bigger circus. I’d say this year was plenty enough of an answer.
Arnold has been making personnel decisions for two years…in tandem with Stearns two years ago, and on his own this past season. He has a very good handle on that. And the farm system will add Black, Chourio and Quero to the team soon, along with Misiorowski as a starting pitcher. Burnes will bring a solid return this off season. Rumors of the Brewers’ demise are greatly exaggerated.
Stearn last “official” move was to trade Hader mid-season. He stepped down the next day. In reality, Stearn’s made no decisions in 2022 or 2023 after the conflict was made public.
Stearn’s walked into a great situation in Milwaukee but it was not obvious at the time. His predecessor, Doug Melvin, had just signed Counsell to be Manager and traded for a young Josh Hader. Doug Melvin had also drafted Burnes, Woodruff and Devon Williams. Stearns inherited 4 aces and an excellent manager.
Stearns inherited Josh Hader, Devin Williams, Brandon Woodruff, his first draft was Cory Ray, Burnes. Lets see small market team trades 6 years of control of Garrett Cooper for Tyler Webb to give up grand slam in only appearance, Khris Davis and 133 Hrs in following 3 years for Bubba Derby, Jacob Nottingham, all star left reliever Will Smith for
Phil Bickford, Andrew Susac. How about signing JB Bradley for 2 yr 16 million to hit .163, .236 obp Strearns had the biggest payroll in history when he overpaid Lorenzo Cain, had the benefit of expanded wildcard, weak divisions. He is not this GM superstar, people pretend him to be.
Agreed. He seems pleasantly above average, without being especially brilliant at the job.
But, for the Mets, “pleasantly above average” is an enormous improvement, particularly if it keeps Cohen from playing at being a GM.
Who will be the highest bidder? I know Cleveland will pay top dollar for their manager so it’s not just the Mets at play and maybe even Milwaukee decides to spend on bringing him back.
The brewers certainly can afford to pay Counsell 7 million per but have to wonder if it’s a good idea. I suspect only cohen would be dumb enough to do it.
Why would it be dumb to pay top dollar for a top manager?
Because MKE doesn’t have a top roster, and even if they do keep Burnes (and, I guess, Adames), one has to wonder if Counsell can continue to squeeze out playoff teams from a low budget squad.
And, why spend top dollar on a manager if you shop at Dollar Tree for players?
Plus, how are players who get the Burnes treatment in arbitration going to react knowing the team will spend big on a manager but not them?
How are the players who get the treatment that virtually every team does to every arbitration eligible player going to react? Probably like almost every player except for the occasional Burnes reacts, knowing it’s a business and super commonplace. It was only a story because Burnes decided to attend his hearing and got his feelings hurt. It’s just how it’s done almost everywhere across baseball.
It would be the 3rd anti-player issue in roughly 18 months.
The Hader trade-supposedly all because of his rising cost.
The Burnes arb hearing.
Paying your manager more than all but 4 or 5 players on the roster..maybe only a couple if Burnes and Adames do in fact get traded.
Whether Burnes attended his arb hearing or not, I’m sure he would have been informed that the brass essentially BLAMED him for the team’s playoff failures. Yet Counsell not only skates by, but then gets a raise of potentially double (or more) his previous salary? Yeah I think there might be some negative feelings from the players.
But hey, just trade ALL of them, and things will be fine I guess.
The brewers certainly can afford to pay Counsell 7 million per but have to wonder if it’s a good idea. I suspect only cohen will pay up.
If analytics teams are making lineup and matchup decisions in todays game, shouldn’t the Managers salaries be going down as they have less responsibility than in the past?
Good thought. Counsell himself is an analytical robot manager who somehow thought Jesse Winker belonged on the playoff roster. As a lifelong Brewer fan I can appreciate the fact that they made the playoffs many times under his reign but their success was due to their pitching which was a system wide program run through their training facility in Phoenix.
Especially when so many new managers are just BS hires. This guy played 250 games across ten seasons! He’s a loser as a player, but that automatically makes him manager material somehow. Or this other guy just retired from baseball and was known to be a jerk, that’s grit and therefore manager material.
Loser as a player? How many World Series did you win? How many post season MVP’s did you win?
6 of each. What about you?
@dlaurenzi- I think we all know the answer to that question. He’s not even an mvp at fact checking his terribly dumb statement. I doubt he even knows how many World Series Craig counsell has even played in.
I’m not talking about counsell you dopes. I’m talking about the current state of managers.
Stop playing so much xbox.
AJF- To quote the movie Billy Madison: “ At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
Literally nothing you said was even slightly factual.
Cool Billy Madison quote. I’m sure people still think it’s funny and original. It’s certainly not so overused that you can immediately write off someone’s sense of humor after hearing it.
“This guy played 250 games across ten seasons!” If you are talking about Counsell, then where in the world did you pull that garbage stat from?
Earl Weaver and Whitey Herzog, to name two of many, were utter failures as players. Ted Williams was notoriously bad at managing.
Success as a player is irrelevant.
Managers need to be the conduit who take the analytics data and provide it to the players in a way they can understand and also help them integrate it into their routines. They also have to decide what analytics to use and when to use their experience. The job definitely has not gotten easier.
Do they decide what analytics to use and when to use them? I guess yes if we are talking about Dusty playing Maldonado over Diaz, but there are some managers, like Aaron Boone, that I don’t think was allowed to “decide”
Sooo, basically this article is stating that Counsell is going to the Mets.
He’s being nice by allowing Milwaukee the chance to match whatever overinflated salary he gets from New York’s new owner, but he knows they aren’t going to do it.
It’s a clever gambit, though. It makes NY have to bid against themselves rather than cut it close by guessing MIL won’t match their last offer of, say, 4/30m.
Hoping he goes to best situation for himself and his family.
are any of his potential job opportunities going to be really that bad for him and his family?
*AJ Preller waves from the corner* “I got this! Hold my beer!!”
As a brewers fan….if his goal is to be the highest paid manager. Pass. He ain’t THAT good.
The brewers are likely going into rebuild mode and will stink for a few years…..there’s zero point in paying that much for him.
Your take on the team is wrong.
They got one year, maybe next July even before it happens. Been there, recognize the signs.
Yeah the die hards are gonna be in denial about the upcoming rebuild. I’m a realist. It’s obviously coming. Woodruffs injury just finalized it.
One more year and they have a bunch of top prospects getting playing time.
Milwaukee has the #2 farm system in mlb. With 6 top 100 prospects in double A or above (including the #2 overall prospect) They also fielded 4 rookies in 2023 + Garrett Mitchell.
Losing Miley too, Lauer went from good starter, to dfa starter, suddenly starting pitching .which was a plus for last 5 years, is not very competitive with rest of league, or at best average, especially with Burnes in last year or traded.
They need to rebuild the starting staff, and it takes time to develop pitchers, don’t count on FA.
With the price of cheese curds rising I hope he can get the contract he deserves. I wonder if old Attanasio could get him a Culver’s operation or two to seal the deal. Interesting how partial Brewer owner Giannis just got a $60m a year deal and Craig gets about 10% of that yet has twice the games/effort. Both get early exits from playoffs.
Get that money Craig
Personally I hope he leaves because he has been out coached in the playoffs and his petty doghouse issues with players shows he is frankly immature. He still got a lot to learn in managing.
He has no doghouse issue don’t make stuff up
Counsell is motivated by pushing the market forward in terms of manager salaries, particularly in smaller markets.
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I’m not sure that makes sense. Shouldn’t he want to set the market starting with the big markets? Teams that spend twice as much on players would presumably spend twice as much on managers.
If Milwaukee will pay him $7M, maybe the Mets will pay their next manager $14M.
It doesn’t.
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Can you point me to where you won a World Series on your resume? I get he wants to max his worth – we all do, but he doesn’t have the data to back it up.
Counsell has 2 WS rings. One with Arizona and the other with Miami.
I knew it all along. Counsell is playing the Mets, Guardians, etc., against the Brewers just like Judge did last year when he showed interest in the Giants and others to get the nyy to up their offer. He never intended to leave. CC wants to stay in Milwaukee. He’s using those other teams to put the Brewers on the spot. Either way, Counsell wins.
Knew it all along? He probably is with the Mets by Monday.
I love my Brewers, and do think he is a good manager, but with all the playoff opportunities hes had and the gaffes hes made in those opportunities, if he aims to reset the market, he had better be prepared to handle the heat that will come with it.
To everybody not living in Wisconsin who thinks counsell is a great manager and who should get top dollar over 7 mil per…. He’s not worth that much money. He’s kind of over rated hasn’t had great success in the post season. Relies way too heavily on analytics, won’t play small and ball prefers matchups. As a brewers fan the Mets or the Indians can have him
Amen!!!
Someone who actually knows what’s going on. Sick of these Counsell sycophants. Nice to hear someone with a fact based comment.
Even if the Mets offer the most, doesn’t mean less won’t get him anyway due to higher NYC expenses.
Comment of the day lol
And now it’s time to play……GRAB THAT DOUGH!!!! (Golden Girls reference)
I doubt he will “reset the market”. There are only 30 such jobs in the entire world and an untold number of highly qualified candidates.
Honestly, that sounds like agent talk to me. Doubt Counsell personally said that but the NYC media obviously ate it up.
The Mets should say no thanks if he really wants to stay in Milwaukee. Why overpay for a job that no one can even accurately measure the real impact. I’m sure they can get a fine manager for $2 million.
A martyr for earning $9 million dollars a year managing a baseball team? Oh Please
Hahahaha
7 million!? For a lickspittle to the egg heads in analytics!? Bosh I say! Oh for the days when men were men and managers worked by the divination of tobacco spit and the stirrings in their venerable and pendulous testes! What, I say WHAT, is our grand national game coming to!?
(Jk lol good luck to him. Seems like a solid manager.)
7 playoff wins in 9 seasons, let the man walk
real question, is plonking an actual word?
Being considered a victim or martyr is a sought after title these days.
Why are they paying someone big cash who manages in a weak division and is knocked out of the first round of the playoffs each year? Guy should have been dumped centuries ago.
I suspect that MLB fans from outside the North Rim of the country can’t guess how very popular Craig Counsell is. From all indicators, his players respect and love him.
For a little context, Milwaukee’s billionaire owner is apparently looking for a second professional sports franchise to invest in.
I know this will be tough for some to hear, but CC is a decent human being. Every year the Brewers punch above their weight. With Chicago right down the road from here, that’s something a blue-collar joint like MKE can love and be loyal to.
How about invest in the Brew Crew’s Dollar General pricetag squad – – and start with their manager?
Note to owner: please PLEASE resign Craig Counsell. Thanks for your time.
Manages in one of the two weakest divisions in baseball and has had just about zero postseason success. Good luck.
Counsel is the Dalton Varsho of this off-season. He’s value is widely inflated. I’m not saying he’s a bum, but there are plenty of capable managers. I’d rather have an extra bullpen arm honestly.
I think Counsel is a top ten manager and deserves to be paid as such.
If he valued his employer and job he would have given them a number and would have gotten it if they wanted to retain him. He’s gone. Team gets a PR break by saying we attempted to retain him but he left. He has way too long of a history with the team to tell them he will go elsewhere to get an offer and then come back for a match. Any owner would say if that is your loyalty go to the other team and stay there. The lack of an extension tells that he either wasn’t heavily valued or overplayed his hand. Who’s his agent? Boras? Lol
What a money grubber. Just chasing the Benjamins. My respect factor for Counsell has cratered (not like he would give a darn.)
If the Mets are willing to pay him $8-10 million a year let him go there. Big a big market team they won’t put up with the same stuff Brewers fans do and just accept making the playoffs as good enough. He gets to the playoffs and losses first series NY fans won’t accept that. Plus the Brewers are likely to be a rebuilding team the next few years so go a young coach that can develop with the team.
I’d be shocked if the Mets pay anything above $5M. Theres plenty of other good managers. No need to overpay for Craig Counsell who is also just a good manager.