After finishing fifth in NL Rookie of the Year voting in 2023, Matt McLain’s sophomore season has thus far been a wash, as a shoulder surgery in March has kept him off the field. McLain was set to begin a minor rehab assignment tomorrow but those plans have now been put on hold, Reds manager David Bell told the Cincinnati Enquirer’s Gordon Wittenmyer and other reporters. McLain suffered a stress reaction in his ribcage area last week and was assigned a shutdown period of 3-7 days, which has now stretched to beyond the intended start date of the rehab assignment.
As recently as Thursday, McLain “was having some progress and feeling better,” as Bell relayed about a text message sent to him from the infielder. The short timeframe of the initial shutdown period would seem to suggest that the rib injury isn’t as serious as it might sound, yet basically any setback at this point adds extra doubt about McLain’s ability to return to action before the 2024 season is over. He’ll need a pretty lengthy rehab period to get fully ramped up after his layoff, so even if McLain is able to start playing relatively soon, his return to the majors looks like it’ll be in September at the earliest. The 57-61 Reds are on the outskirts of an NL wild card race that is still relatively compact at the moment, so the team will need all the help it can get (including whatever McLain can provide) if Cincinnati has a shot of leapfrogging the field and snagging a playoff berth.
More from the NL Central…
- Cade Horton also suffered a setback in his rehab from the subscapularis strain that has kept the Cubs pitching prospect off the mound since late May, Cubs president of operations Jed Hoyer told the Chicago Tribune’s Meghan Montemurro. As a result, Horton’s 2024 campaign is likely over, as Hoyer said the right-hander probably wouldn’t start throwing again until after the minor league season is finished. Selected seventh overall in the 2022 draft, Horton is considered one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball, though his first taste of Triple-A action resulted in an ugly 7.50 ERA over 18 innings (five starts). Between the shoulder strain, this latest setback, and a Tommy John surgery in his college days, Horton has already had to deal with a lot of injury concerns, and his MLB debut will now have to wait until 2025 at the earliest.
- In the first start of his minor league rehab assignment, Jared Jones threw 47 pitches over 2 2/3 innings for Triple-A Indianapolis last Thursday. Pirates GM Ben Cherington said during his weekly radio show today (hat tip to Kevin Gorman of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review) that the plan is for Jones to having another rehab outing on Wednesday with a higher pitch count, and the Bucs will decide from there whether or not Jones could be ready to return from the 15-day injured list. Jones suffered a Grade 2 strain in his right lat during his last MLB start on July 3, thus necessitating a lengthy IL stint. Somewhat overshadowed by the Paul Skenes phenomenon, Jones has had a big rookie year of his own, posting a 3.56 ERA over his first 91 big league innings and emerging as another key building block of the Pittsburgh rotation.
it doesn’t matter how well the Pirates pitching is, their offense is near the bottom of every category and their closer keeps blowing save opportunities
Yes they are going to have spend in FA on at least 2 bats but the schedule goes from playoff teams to fringe playoff teams starting Friday Seattle Texas we aren’t on the Arizona Phillies Dodgers Padres level
Hah! Pirates spending money in FA? What does that mean never heard of that before
How much money did they give to extend mccutchen? He wasn’t extended? What about bonds? Oh wait…
Instead of giving 10 million to chapmen and 8 million to Perez they can use that money to buy a hitter. No need to pay cutch 5 million and Taylor 4 million next season bring back bart
They can have Davis or Reynolds play 1st rotating DH with Bart use ikf as a super utility player
Need cruz to take the next step and fix hayes
I’d rather swing and miss on 1.5 for Rosario then 15 mil needing to plug in a 4/5.
“How much money did they give to extend mccutchen? He wasn’t extended?”
Excellent point other than yes they did extend Cutch. And Marte. And Polanco. And the nightmare. And Cerveli. And the dude with lips on his neck. And Hayes. And Reynolds. And Keller. Oh and Harrison.
That’s not even 30 million. What kinda hitter is that going to buy you? Whoever it is I don’t want em. If they don’t replace Chapman how they going to close out games? They can’t do it with him now. Who’s playing CF? Jack can’t hit the ball and Bae just hits it on the ground. Oh and neither are good cf. If Reynolds plays 1b who is playing outfield? The new bat on a 1 year 30m deal or 2 year 15m deal. Can’t be any longer than that because arbitration is going to skyrocket. And they fired the man who can fix Hayes.
Pirates plan is bargain bin 1b might even be Rowdy Santana but someone like that. Bargain bin cf because cf are in demand so expensive. Davis will catch some. DH. Maybe lil awful rf experiment again. Endy can play 2b corner outfield or 1b when not catching. Cutch will be back because of pr marketing pirate legend stuff and even old and washed he is one of our best bats. Wild card is a trade.
Plan for free agency is same as always as you outlined. Bargain bin 1b, bargain bin OF/utility guy and a reliever or two. Wouldn’t be surprised if they bring back Taylor for cf since they kept him at the trade deadline. The real issue this season was that they swung and missed pretty much across the board on free agents. Sure some of that is that they’re targeting cheaper guys with issues to their game but some of it is bad luck too. Trade wise, I’d doubt they’d pull the trigger while selling at a low point this offseason but if the bullpen is looking good next June and Bednar is healthy and effective I’d imagine he’s gone at the trade deadline since he’s going to carry a higher price tag his last years through arbitration with the number of saves he’s accumulated.
I think you should give Shelton credit for not ruining Skenes and Jones to save his job. He’s looking out for the Pirates long term interests and that’s those 2 guys. As A Cub fan 1st and a baseball fan forever I have this big fear of the Pirates trying to chase Unicorns this year and sacrificing the future. As much as I hate seeing them pitch against the Cubs I enjoy their talent from a baseball perspective. Watching them is pure joy. The worst thing that they could do is bring back Jones and pitch both of them into the ground. I hope that doesn’t happen.
Hate to throw in towel with Bucs,really had hope. They don’t make enough contact! Really miss Gonzalez. Last 10 years I’ll say Pirates lead baseball in lob!! It’s down right crazy.
To claim their offense is near the bottom of every category is a misrepresentation of the current state of their offense. Looking at just BA, OBP, OBS for the months of May, June, July and August, we see a steady and significant improvement relative to the rest of the league. In May, they were 22nd, 24nd and 21st in those categories. Yeah, they sucked. By July, they were 13th, 14th and 17th, hardly near the bottom. This month, they are 9th, 10th and 15th. Middling. In the Dodgers series, they outhit the Dodgers in two of the three games while being outscored in all three. In the last four series, they have been outhit only in the Padres series. For me, this suggests a different problem than needing “a bat”. For me, this suggests two potential problems. One, lack of timely or clutch hitting. Two, a in-game strategy that is incapable of utilizing the strengths of the team. The latter is definitely a manager and bench coach problem, while the former could also be one. For me, and I could be wrong, the solution is not bringing in a couple of FA bats, but changing how the bats are used. Bringing in FA bats may help to a degree, no denying that, but with an in-game strategy that ignores what your bats can and can’t do, I think the new bat would largely be futile.
Successful teams “get them on, get them over, get them in”. Small ball, power hitting, home runs, sacrifices, walks, etc. Doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you do it. Successful teams adopt their approach to their talent, not their talent to their approach.
where are they listed now in runs scored and average
hint : they aren’t last, they’re next to last
big improvement
Why bother burning innings on Jones’ arm given the Pirates just lost 7 in a row and Bednar just blew another save? Cherington obviously made the team worse by acquiring Bryan de la Cruz.
Cause jones Will come back when they shutdown Skenes September 1. Ashcrafts bubba harrington will all get starts in September to prepare for next season
Ashcraft hurt.
Innings is a seasonal thing. You don’t save the surplus and carry them over to next year.
@yourdreamgm
I partially agree, yes your right you can’t carry unused innings over to next season, but you can carry over less “wear and tear” on the body.
In order to build a young pitcher up to carry a full starters workload over the course of a season you need to gradually increase their inning totals each year. If they shut down Jones and Skenes just because they think they’re out of the playoff chase then they’re in the same spot next year where they have to shut them down before September again.
Any Reds fan knew the talk of McLain doing anything this year was a pipe dream. There is also no guarantee he could contribute significantly in any case. Remember how Joey Votto recovered from his surgery.
Face it, the Reds sesson all was based on hopes, a lot of which never materialsized instead of an actual plan to win no matter what.
The Reds fans, as always, got a big middle finger from management, even as late as the trade deadline.
They had some chance, but the injuries to McClain, CES and Friedl, plus the suspension to Marte was just too much to overcome.
Add to that Williamson and several non producing hitters for most of the season. That would wipe out most any plan.
Nonsense. Their plan didn’t work out, but it was a solid plan nonetheless. A young small market team does not plan on competing “no matter what”. This isn’t the Dodgers.
Every teams fortunes are based on hopes at the beginning of the season. Hope the pitching holds up, hope the new guys work out and hope the veterans keep producing. My hope for next season is “This one belongs” finds a new team to whine about. Or better yet get a job as a mlb gm so he can prove to us how he knows everything.
I understand every fans frustration with the organization. However they equate every wrong thing or thing that does not go right to the same. It’s been 30 since they won a playoff series or whatever. Yes that stinks. What does it have to do with now? The ownership is cheap. Low hanging fruit. We get that.
They are trying to go the route of developing and roster churning through the minors. That’s not an overnight thing. They want to be like the Indians and Rays but not as cheap.
Krall should make more trades which he has shown with the Sam Moll and Espinal trades he can do that. He does need to make bigger ones and realize not all of these rookies are going to make it.
Matt had this issue in ST before diving for a ball. Which was stupid to begin with since it happened while practicing. He over does it trying to get ready. He does swing hard so I don’t know how he can stop himself from over doing it. Or maybe he’s just one of those guys who can’t stay healthy.
The Montas trade was a solid trade. Reds are better with Martinez in the rotation than Frankie (now), plus they got Weimer and saved some money. Junis was more of a roster move by Brewers than a big part of the trade. The Sims deal was also solid as the Reds got another talented young 19 year old arm and opened up room to see if Santillan can succeed in 7th and 8th inning set-up situations.
First off, there’s no reason to rush Jones. There’s really no reason to extend Skenes’s innings, either
Unless you’re a true believer type of fan, you knew that this team was never a contender, even in a lackluster NL WC race
I’m sorry, daddy, but I had to laugh at your comment about the schedule after the Mariners come to town. The Pirates *are* one of the fringe teams in all of baseball
At what point do even the most diehard fans admit that this is a pathetic franchise, with an owner who has no intention of spending money to get bonafide players here who can fill in the gaps of this rebuild?
I have a A+ quote for you. It’s not the fans. Straight from our fearless leader gm. Enjoy.
“We’re still focused on one thing, and that’s winning as many games as we can, making every effort to make every game count between now and September,” Cherington said on his weekly radio show on 93.7 The Fan. “We still believe it’s possible that we can push ourselves into October. We understand where we are in the standings. I believe this team is capable of going on a really good run still ahead of us, but we all know that talk is cheap. We’ve got to go do it.”
True believer ?
Reality- gullible rube
They are not a.pathetic franchise,but they need to do a number of things as previously expressed before they can begin to compete.
Unfortunately,I do not believe that Cherington is capable of making real changes in order to compete.
If he does not do that this year and hopefully soon to get a head start then they will not be any better next year unless Nutting has to drop the ax on the necessary personnel.
And that soon thereafter should be Cherington also as he has left this go on way too long.
You and I have differing opinions on what constitutes “pathetic”
No, they’re not the John Russell era Pirates. The very fact that I’m content with a .500 record under this ownership says as much. I just continually wonder each spring what others are seeing when they are looking for this franchise to compete when I see a 78 win team.
I’ve come to believe that if Dumbroski was the GM here, he couldn’t do much with the financial constraints that are in place. That’s no defense of Cherington, of course. His scouting and player development departments are abysmal
Senor-You May mean by pathetic that they are too stupid to get out of their own way.
I suppose that if so that that could be a definition.
I am visiting my family near Pittsburgh and just saw the Bob Pompiani shows at 10:30 PM and 11:30 PM where he takes phone questions in the first and asks questions of three sportswriters in the second.
I saw very little of the first and all of the second but they seemed like excellent programs.The second reminded me of our discussions on MLB Trade Rumors.I thought that their answers about the Pirates mirrored many of the conversations on the Pirates.
Nutting has extended players before and added to good teams but this is not a good team,
I think that the scouting has been good and the fundamentals mediocre but the hitting development has been poor.
Dombrowski would never take a job with any small market team.Dream thinks that the Pirates can only get what they can get.I say no.They need to try to improve but Cherington does not know how.They need to find a young Dombrowski if Cherington cannot figure it out.
Pomp is fantastic. Entertaining. Likable. But doesn’t know anything about baseball. The clowns with him are even worse. They are on YouTube for free though so you can watch them anytime you want. Pittsburgh media is toxic and ruined an entire cities fanbase. Not hard to brainwash them though. Pirates haven’t spent big $ on a player since what Dave Parker and you have people saying they need to sign 2 big time bats! Every year the names are comical. Look at whatever the other small markets spend, subtract 10 to 20 million and that’s what the Pirates are going to spend. Not much. Or should I say Nutting. You better hope Rowdy likes it here, that he forgot about the boos, and he goes into a season ending slump. There’s your big bat for 2025. We like and believe in our internal options. Davis Jack rebounding and getting Endy healthy. There’s your big bats.
I never liked Pomp much. That’s just me. I’ll agree that his forte is golf. Listening to he and Charlie Batch do Steelers preseason games is an exercise in the mundane
I largely agree about the media here although again, Madden’s columns are spot on about most teams and players. I don’t listen to his radio show as he is playing the character of sports shock jock, and again, any reading of his thoughts reinforces that. Madden isn’t the type to worry about stepping on toes of owners, coaches/managers or players. That’s refreshing in itself in this town
Mendoza remembers Nutting adding to his roster. I think that the financial genius Nutting remembers that well and is such a bottom line type that he believes the outcome was a failure. The teams back then didn’t move beyond divisional playoffs. And I’m sure it’s colored his willingness to spend ever since. I mean, it’s pretty clear
Dream can carp all he wants as he contradicts himself with explanations and figures he throws out there. It’s not that Nutting Inc doesn’t have the money—they certainly do—-it’s just a refusal to go the extra mile. Yes, Pirates fans are starved for a winner. Yes, some make ridiculous pleas for signings and trades
But the trade deadline “moves” of this franchise were pathetic. Imagine putting a couple big time bats in this lineup. Let me use Bellinger and Turner here only for example purposes. Now imagine the lineup. Imagine the attitude of players. Imagine the fan base
But yes, it’s a pathetic franchise. Look at what they did. Listen to what they say (Dream provided a hilarious quote). And wonder, just who is their target audience? 12 year olds? The Pirates winter caravan types? Fans of pierogi races and fireworks?
Again, you’re off on a tangent here
What do other small markets spend?
You’re the guy who made it clear that the Pirates subscribed to the Rays blueprint for success
Here five years later, they have one helluva problem:
One, the rebuild has a great many holes in it. Something you didn’t see in TB. Or Baltimore. Or Milwaukee
Second, and you can carp until you’re blue in the face, their minor league system STILL is yet to provide an impact player and there is nothing on the horizon. (Please, save the comments about what a great farm system they have. The proof is here. Now)
So they are in a place where there is no blueprint now and other than snark, no ideas from you
This team as constructed will be the 75-80 win team we see for years to come. In your mind, that’s great. They can compete for the WC.
The rebuild is over. They have big holes in the lineup
They won’t spend on fixes on any regard
But they’ll have Nutting tell us losing is not acceptable. They’ll have Cherington bringing the laughs every Sunday
Let’s use your own words here. “Open your eyes”
Not much more they can do. Small market teams spend 130m or less. Doesn’t matter what you think they could spend. Only what history shows they are willing to spend.
Pirates go as far as their development takes them.
Only other thing they can do to really make a impact is trade. A big trade. Thats possible.
Cherington has had 5 years to figure it out
you don’t pay attention to the Pi
The Pi are Square.
No,but 2 Pi are.
Thank God I’m old enough to remember the Machine very well. Only about 4-5 seasons since are worth remembering. Poor management, lack of development and horrible luck with injuries leaves me wondering if this team will win anything worthwhile during my lifetime!!
Listen, it doesn’t matter who the pirates sign in the off-season. As long as Shelton is the manager, the pirates aren’t going anywhere. This losing streak is due to sheltons insistence to keep sending out bednar to close games. He’s been pathetic in losing the last few games he tried to save. He’s either suffering from some sort of injury or he’s just lost it. In fact he’s stunk all year. But THE MORON STILL SENDS HIM IUT THERE,BUT WONT USE CHAPMAN AS THE CLOSER.
AGAIN SHELTON HAS NO BUSINESS BEING IN A MAJOR LEAGUE DUGOUT.
Great news then. Managers are much cheaper than players. If I was Nuttings gm I would suggest a player manger! He would extend me on the spot for coming up with such a fiscal responsibility idea. 2 birds with 1 cheap stone. Or AI manager!
Chapman as closer is no better than the rest of the Pirates’ mediocre bullpen.
Don’t forget Holderman too.
Why is this so obvious to most of us but not to people getting paid to know it?
At this point I think the Cubs just let Horton heal up and if he’s healthy let him toss a few innings in the AFL. Otherwise let him rehab all winter and bring him to ST. There is no reason to push him with all the options the Cubs will have next year. Steele, Tallion, Imanaga, Brown, Wicks, Wesneski, Assad, Birdsell, Noland maybe even Sasaki? That’s still 9 or 10 deep. Some will fall, Some will jump up but it’s a pretty good base. Horton is still only 2 years removed from TJ surgery and was mostly a reliever in College so a slow innings build up is the way to go. Time for the Cubs to trust the system and stop with the foolish FA signings.
This one belongs to the Reds. How does one plan to win no matter what? What does that mean? Trade off all their best prospects to get who exactly?
You have already stated this year you were promised a winning team. I never heard anyone promising anything other than they are going to win with the young players while filling out the roster with some FA. Martinez and Suter have done a good job. Pagan had not. Candelario has been down. Up and carried the offense in May-June. Now he’s back down and been dealing with knee issues.
Don’t want to hear about his WAR either since they didn’t sign him for defense. He was supposed to be the DH. Backup 1B. He was not signed for his defense.
This win no matter the cost cliche. Is that like some Triumph of the Will mantra? They are supposed to will themselves to win? A bunch of old man cliches like he needs to be more clutch. So the reds were supposed to sign back up players to millions of dollars just in case? Very few if any teams do that anymore.
Now next year they do not or should not expect these guys to just perform. I also think the hitting philosophy is lacking. No situational hitting is taught here it seems. Their philosophy is hit the ball hard and good things will happen. How about just getting the bat on the ball to drive in a runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs.
The analytics department is bad which in turns leads to decisions with batting order made by Bell that makes no sense. Like Espinal as a DH. He should never be a DH. He should be in the field. India at this point should be a DH. Marge should have been on the bench if they were trying to win.
“A bunch of old man cliches like he needs to be more clutch.”
That’s the sum and substance of This One Belongs and his repetitive empty-content comments.
I saw McLain and Horton and thought this was going to be a Tiger article.
Pompeani should retire. He’s pathetic at whatever he does. His football calling is atrocious. He’s on the radio with the other Pea brained shock needs and he’s just as bad as they are, considering he is their grandfather’s age.
Everytime I see shelto on tv doing an interview I get ill, just like when I see Donnie “3 chins” Darko doing an interview. Makes me want to get my pellet rifle and blow the tv away.
Shelton ruined a joyous season by his stupid managing. If NUTJOB NUTTING doesn’t fire him and the whole coaching staff after the season, then he doesn’t really care. It’s a shame. The pirates are one of the oldest franchises with a storied history. Ever since he obtained control of the team, he has dragged the team down to his level…
Rejection is Gods protection. Yeah, the Reds have taken the first two from the dirty birds, but let’s zoom out. McClain is one of the crown jewels of their franchise. Even if they would make the playoffs, they aren’t likely to go far. Ease Matty back slowly and call it a season. Why risk more harm to his body? It makes absolutely NO sense for him to see him in a game action at all this season. Protect your assets..