The Giants freed up some payroll space yesterday, trading left-hander Taylor Rogers to the Reds. They sent $6MM to Cincinnati in the deal but also freed up $6MM, with Rogers set to make $12MM this year. Since the Giants have been connected to some of the big names remaining in free agency, such as Pete Alonso and Jack Flaherty, some fans might have fairly wondered if the extra cash could be redirected to a new roster addition.
However, in the aftermath of the deal, president of baseball operations Buster Posey downplayed that possibility. “We’ll keep looking,” Posey said to Andrew Baggarly of The Athletic. “I will say, we feel pretty set with the roster the way it is right now.”
This is Posey’s first offseason in his current job, as he was just hired at the end of September. Unlike other baseball operations leaders, there’s no real track record to go off of, making it hard to gauge how the Giants would behave this winter. There were perhaps some clues, as Posey was apparently instrumental in the Matt Chapman negotiations, even before getting the POBO job. Then at his introductory press conference, he spoke of getting the Giants back into the “memory-making business.” He also spoke fondly of valuing runs batted in as a statistic, despite that measure falling out of favor over time.
That led to some hope that he would come in as an old-fashioned gunslinger type, though it’s been a fairly modest offseason on the whole. They did make a big strike with the Willy Adames signing, the largest contract in franchise history, but have been fairly quiet apart from that. Their most notable moves aside from Adames have been to sign Justin Verlander to a one-year deal and send out Rogers in what seems like a salary dump move.
It’s possible that this is a bluff from Posey, since it wouldn’t help with negotiations for him to come out and say he’s desperate to make further additions. But if he’s being truthful that the club is fairly content, then they will be mostly relying on internal improvements.
The Giants have finished with a win total in the 79-81 range in three straight years now. Adames is a nice boost but the Giants also lost Blake Snell, Michael Conforto and Mark Canha to free agency at the end of last year and have now taken Rogers out of the bullpen mix. Verlander could also help, but there are no guarantees of that after he posted a 5.48 earned run average last year. Injuries may have played a part in those struggles but health woes can pop up for any pitcher and Verlander is perhaps even more susceptible since he’ll turn 42 before the season starts.
The internal improvements could come from a few places. Jung Hoo Lee only got to play 37 games last year before requiring labrum surgery, so a full and productive season from him would be great. Wilmer Flores, Robbie Ray and Jordan Hicks were also held back by health issues to varying extents and could perhaps provide more in 2025 than last year. Tyler Fitzgerald and Heliot Ramos had midseason breakouts in 2024, so carrying those forward into a full season could lead to some extra wins. A bounceback from Camilo Doval after a rough 2024 would certainly be welcome. Young guys like Luis Matos and Marco Luciano could perhaps break out after their progress has lagged a bit in recent years.
If Posey’s stance is posturing, it’s possible there’s some financial wiggle room, at least relative to last year. Per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, the club started 2024 with a $208MM payroll and they eventually went on to pay the competitive balance tax. RosterResource currently projects them for just a $176MM payroll this year, $32MM south of last year. Their $217MM CBT projection is $24MM below this year’s $241MM base threshold.
It’s still possible for the club to sign someone like Flaherty or Alonso and stay under the tax and last year’s payroll. Alonso might end up making a salary near $24MM this year but the Giants could offset that somewhat by trading LaMonte Wade Jr. and the $5MM he’s owed. However, Baggarly has reported previously this winter that the Giants are planning to reduce payroll, so perhaps they have already made their most significant moves.
lol!
Wow, Posey is even dumber than Zaidi. Ahahahahaha!
But not as dumb as your jokes.
Don’t forget Zaidi acquired La Stella, Pollock & Walton
Based off of what? You must be really smart if you think he should tell everyone what his actual plans and thoughts are! Great poker player too??
Based off him valuing RBIs
And your reasoning for your stupid NY comment pizza face?
Do you believe that Posey sets the team salary budget?
4th in the West!
sometimes you gotta know your limitations and when to fold em.
Posey realizes they have little chance other than 4th place
For sure. Do we think Posey was aware of the Giants cutting payroll? If he did why did he take this job? People say he’s smart..
4th in the west is still a wild card contender, unlike 2nd in some divisions.
Feeling “pretty set” is not the same as feeling “pretty good”.
Like the difference between “one of the tattoo artists of the city” and “one of the best tattoo artists in the city”.
LOL
Wow. Lots of giant haters here.
The year that diamondbacks went to the World Series they were picked fourth.
Giants could very easily squeeze into a wildcard spot .
Dude, you have no idea.
The SFG haters run hard.
Makes me sad for them at times.
@Nap Lajoie
This is off-topic, but Nap Lajoie was my mémère’s (French for grandmother) cousin. They were all from Canada and settled mainly in the New England cities of Worcester, Mass., and Woonsocket, R.I. Mémère lived with us for several years; unfortunately, I didn’t get any good Nap stories from her. All she knew was “he was always playing that baseball,” which wasn’t considered a respectable way of making a living then. I told her he was in the Hall of Fame, but she wasn’t impressed.
Great family story – thanks for sharing!
The Diamondbacks were 52-110 two years earlier. The World Series champion Rangers were coming off 110 and 94-loss seasons.
Nap
I don’t hate the Giants.
I like the city, San Francisco is beautiful except for a couple bad pockets, which every big city has.
I respect their accomplishments in 2010, 2012 and 2014.
I just evaluate the talent as I see it.
The Dodgers have the best 2025 team on paper that I have seen this generation. They may crash and burn in the playoffs, especially if rotation injuries impact the postseason, but they will win the division in the 2025 regular season.
The Padres have very solid core, some of those contracts may age poorly but they still look very good in 2025.
The Snakes have a very solid team.
The Phillies and Atlanta both look very good to me.
Position for position, the Giants don’t match up. Especially the rotation. In 2025. IMHO
I like Ramos. But the outfield and DH mix includes McCray, Yaz and Encarnacion.
Fitzgerald strikes out a lot so I see a little regression in his stats.
Nothing indicates to me that the Giants – mnus Snell and plus Adames – will be better than they were in 2024. Look at the second half of 2024 for how Harrison, Hicks, and Birdsong did. Webb is a stud, Ray might bounce back a little, Verlander looked awful in 2024.
I think don’t think you have much consideration for the progress for young players. And, like a lot of fans, you just assume a player in one season defines who that player is.
Take Hicks. You seem to think who he was in the 2nd half is who he is. He went from a reliever to a starter, and it wasn’t until he got into uncharted waters in terms of innings pitched, that he tailed off after a dominating 1st half. Do you assume he isn’t stretched out more, and not better prepared for next season?
And it was only 1/2 season of Snell. Even though they aren’t comparable, but since you grouped them, a full season of Adames, along with the return of Lee should offset the lost 1/2 season of Snell.
A further season of development gives hope that Harrison can live up to his high prospect ranking. And coming back healthy from a lost season is Tristan Beck, who’s been good when healthy.
Birdsong had a bad Aug. (5 GS), not a bad 2nd half. In his 5 Sept. starts, he had a 3.91 ERA, with a .631 OPS against. Not bad for a guy that only turned 23 at the end of Aug.
Maybe they don’t contend in 2025, but short of bad injury luck, they will be better than they were in 2024.
Dodgers, Padres and Snakes also have young players who will progress.
You are correct that I did not mention Lee’s return. While I think Lee may have a below average bat, his return more than makes up for losing Conforto, given that he plays good defense in CF compared to Conforto who plays tolerable defense in LF.
Below average power… not a below average bat.
Yes to everything.
I think Wade Jr will have a good season and that will boost the team. And 2 pitchers will step up and breakout among Winn, Birdsong, Black, Roupp et al.
I guess I’m just gullible enough to believe Buster lifts this team up with his leadership and commitment to culture.
pogo, Not for CF.
I think Posey is posturing and still has one or two trucks up his sleeve. I guess time will tell.
Ouch!
Thems gotta be pretty big sleeves.
Not really any FA difference makers left that would fit in with the current mix. They will need to replace Yaz by next year though. In a perfect world Luciano takes that spot. They could also still go hard after Robert at the deadline if Marco still looks iffy. I really don’t see the doom that others do, and think SFG could sneak into playoff contention. By 2026 for sure. Not far off with some young talent developing.
I was thinking Matos or Luciano would replace Yaz, but I have not seen Luciano’s defense in OF
No one really has.
He needs to play there more before any decision can be made. Probably his best shot at making the roster though.
His best shot making the roster is to hit really well and get at-bats at DH. Same for Encarnacion. Matos plays decent defense but his bat needs to jump to the next level.
I suspect Marco will not crack the roster this year at all. Really has not proven he can hit at the big league level, and needs to learn to play outfield. Should stay in AAA for that.
Matos might platoon with Yaz this year though. He had a good showing in winter ball.
I think Luciano and Matos will both start the season in AAA. Yaz is a starter and Encarnacion is a backup on a short leash.
Matos vs Encarnacion will probably be decided in spring training. If they both get hot that would be great too.
I think Marco is ALREADY ticketed for AAA to hone his OF experience. At least that’s the word out of the Giants FO.
Or they sign Grichuk.
Ha ha. Hopefully those trucks are filled with cash.
Might need it for Tucker next year !
I’m calling that target early.
But the Giants lost Snell, Conforto, and Canha.
I think they mean 1/2 a season of Snell. Canha is no big deal and Conforto was not irreplaceable.
The current Giants roster is the envy of the…Colorado Rockies. It’s good enough for a comfortable 4th place finish in the NL West.
Buster Posey = Farhan Zaidi.
no farhan moved a lot of part around for better or worse to try to improve, buster made a couple moves and not much else. this is more like buster posey = bobby evans
Orbitt — Where did you learn to hate so early and so often? The two POBOs are nothing alike.
Buster has 3 rings… kiss his hands cry babies
Some serious keyboard warrior action here. Congratulations. GKBWOAT
They basically hired Posey because he got along with the current roster lol.
No. They hired Posey because he’s a hero with the fans and will be exempt from criticism
Which says a lot about ownership.
Giants ownership fired Zaidi. Did not conduct one interview with a qualified candidate. Then hire an ex MLB catcher with absolutely zero front office experience to run baseball operations
Unbelievable.
And whats sad is dumb gullible Giants fans will do exactly what ownership expects and not criticize Posey because they see Posey the player
while the rest of us see an ex Catcher with zero front office experience, learning on the job with a learning curve that will take 3-4 years with all the bumbling mistakes that go with that!
The San Francisco Giants organizationally are an absolute Mess
Ageed 100% I’ll say this. Giants fans care about their team but they are total low information fans. I went to school up there and the baseball coverage / media is just awful. No critical analysis whatsoever. So, yes Buster will not be held accountable for anything by bay area writers and these fans will just assume that he’s doing a good job. Which of course is asinine.
Ask yourself this: If there was a GM or POB job available with any of the other 29 teams would Buster Posey even had gotten an interview let alone the JOB ? Hell no
Bull and Cal
I agree that Posey was hired partly because he is a popular hero.
But I think the Giants fans – like most teams’ fans – are result oriented. Buster will not get a free ride if the Giants are in the 70s for wins the next couple years.I understand that the Dodgers have a dynastic team. But with what the Giants spend, they should be in the wildcard mix and for 2025, they are not.
This feels more like something you say to put pressure on some free agents you had been negotiating with.
Just more evidence that a team’s PBO is not the person who makes the financial decisions.
If the Giants had any interest in either Pete Alonso or Jack Flaherty, Posey pretty much gave those free agents a thanks but no thanks.
And, as a Giants fan, I’m glad he did.
How do you figure that? You think what he says to the press affects FA decisions?
Pretty set ? Got holes on that team. Maybe set to finish .500.
I wish these company lines of we feel pretty set wasn’t a thing. They always feel disingenuous.
With the Padres going in reverse the Giants need another starter and maybe they challenge for a wild card spot.
I know he’s a villain, and an absolute lightening rod for negative PR, but Trevor Bauer is out there just hoping for a chance to show he still belongs in MLB.
He’d be cheap and has the potential to step in to be a top of the rotation arm. Negative press will fade away eventually if he’s learned anything. One thing for sure, he’d make the Giants interesting to watch. Lots of upside for not much risk…
He’s playing in Japan this year which is also known as LAD minors.
Also, no way it ever happens in the bay.
I think he’s in Korea, but your comment stands.
Thanks Pete, but it is Japan.
Still amazes me that people think he is still the same pitcher after not being in MLB for years. No stickem no good.
Challenge for a wild card spot? Can you explain your analysis?
After a team wins the division in the NL Central, The Dodgers, Braves, Phillies , D-Backs Mets and Padres will be competing for the 2 other Division titles and the remaining 3 wild card spots.
So, who in that group do the Giants Bump?? You suggested the Padres. Ok assume they do that, There are still 3 teams ahead of them after the division titles are secure
Explain your reasoning?
Cal2,632, Your logic, of why the Giants have no chance at a WC berth, ignores history. That same logic could have been applied to the Tigers and Royals last season. Baseball is unpredictable. It’s a mistake to assume every team that was a contender last season will be again and vice versa.
Cal, they dont have to bump all 3, just one. Braves, Phills, and Mets will be trading wins and losses all year, perhaps keeping win totals in an area the Giants could, if everything works right, approach. Padres are in full reverse. D=Backs added a pitcher and lost one of their better hitters. Not saying it’s easy, but I can see a path. Pitching is the path.
@empire
the Menendez brothers might be available soon.
The Giants need another starter? Why? They have Webb, Verlander, Hicks, Ray, and Harrison, with several starters promoted last season in Birdsong, Roupp, Winn, and Black, as well as the now healthy Beck, not to mention emergency starters in Hjelle, and Bivens. I’d say the one area that is least in need to be supplemented is the starting staff.
Don’t forget Carson Whisenhunt.
I didn’t forget him, just not sure what’s going on with him. I know he was injured last season, and although supposedly ready for ST, it had to have set his development back. He isn’t on the 40-man roster, had he been I would have included him. Of course a good ST and he probably will be.
Sorry to tell you, but an aging Verlander isnt scary anymore. Hicks and Ray pitched like back-end of the rotation guys last year. The rest are hopefuls, but thw thing with hopefuls is that one, rarely two, work out. You want to pin your hopes on that, it’s your call. After watching the Dodgers last season the one lesson that came through loud and clear was that there is no “enough” pitching. Just on the face of it, in my amateur estimation Bauer would clearly upgrade the rotation. I dont expect it to happen, was just kicking the tires on the idea.
Didn’t know you could see into the future to know that Verlander is so much diminished. Maybe he’s not “scary”, but he is only one year removed from a 131 ERA+ season.
Hicks was absolutely lights out until the innings beyond what he was used to piled up. To think that he didn’t learn from the experience, and the Giants haven’t better prepared him, is to assume he and team are stupid.
I agree that not all prospects work out, but when the Giants have the abundance that they do, then some should.
Since the Dodgers won the WS title, apparently they actually did have enough pitching.
Mentioning Bauer is like calls for a salary cap. It’s just beating a dead horse.
Crystal ball? I only have to look at his stats to know that he’s not what he was. That “one year” that you like he only made 14 starts. Clearly he can still pitch. It’s also clear he cant be as effective over a full season.
Maybe you are correct and Hicks is an ace that blossoms. That seems more crystal ball than taking an honest look at Verlander.
Wasnt really trying to offend or attack, was just trying to think outside the box for pitching upgrades other than throwing kids out there and hoping something sticks.
empirejim, My only point was that there are posts here that basically frame the Giants players that had bad seasons won’t be productive. And young players that won’t progress beyond what they were last season, resulting in a team that’s no better than they were in 2024. I only wanted to make the point that what a player did last year is not necessarily who he is. which is the yardstick many use. I know that not every improvement will happen. But I look at the history of teams that were bad one year that were good the next, and many did so without huge additions. Some times the bad seasons of players coincide, just as good ones will.
I think you must know the Giants aint going to go there. No way no how.
He’s also the very definition of a clubhouse cancer. Even his own socials show him off in a bad light.
The Giants cannot do much more now. No remaining free agents would make an impact, and they don’t have anyone who would bring anything significant back in a trade. They have a few good players, including three Top 100 players: Adames, Chapman, and Webb. However, they don’t have a strong identity as a team. This season should be about evaluating what they have while trying to put an entertaining product on the field.
It would be a mistake to stand pat with the current roster. The lineup is basically eight deep; they don’t really have that ninth guy to fill the DH role. And then they would be back to cycling through the same Quadruple-A players if anyone gets hurt.
Maybe they’re expecting a leap from Luciano and/or Matos?
Or maybe, in actuality, there’s some room for one more bat, and this is just GM speak.
Posey saying that the Giants are ok with not competing for a Wild Card in 2025.
Where did he say that?
I can’t see them spending more cash. They extended themselves on the expense side of things last year and you can only imagine they got burnt on the P&L. I can’t imagine the season they had saw them getting the extra spend back in revenue. It’s what generally happens. You need to correct it.
I’m ok as is. The Dodgers are long gone, so getting behind a young team (plus Verlander) giving it a crack has decent appeal.
It’s entire possible this is not posturing by Posey. They need to find out what the have in a bunch of young arms, and position guys like Matos, McCray, and Luciano. And if they surprise people, Posey will have the ability to add payroll at the deadline.
That’s where I’m at. They dropped plenty on Papago and development. They need to see what it has returned them.
I still think they add Grichuck but getting to see more of Matos and McCray makes sense. Luciano is headed to AAA.
Yeah, the only thing keeping Luciano from starting the season in Sacramento is if he has a huge ST. So yeah, I think he ‘s ticketed for AAA.
I agree with them, doubt the Rockies can knock them out of 4th with this roster
200 million dollars to build a .500 club. Great job.
Before Posey can make the team his own he has to work through the roster Zaidi put in place. I think Posey, if given time, will be much better than Zaidi. At the very least, Posey understand what type of on-the-field product it takes to win. Zaidi did not, imho. He was an analytical/value budget guy, or so it seemed. Posey understands the practical side of the business.
Well Said.
Hope that’s true, and yes, Posey deserves a chance to remake the team, which will not happen overnight. Locking up Adames and Chapman is a good foundation. I do understand that a number of the difference-making FAs still on the market are saddled with QOs that would further decimate an already weak farm. The farm is so weak because it graduated so many guys in the last year or two, like Matos, Ramos, Luciano, no to mention all the pitchers. It’s worth taking some time to see what they have there.
“He (Buster Posey) also spoke fondly of valuing runs batted in as a statistic, despite that measure falling out of favor over time.”
–
Sure.
A bunch of unathletic people looking at spreadsheets and feeding the DATA (the holy grail, for sure) into query software using code they wrote, have determined after looking at the results that a statistic is now “out of favor”.
This is “journalism” in the USA (and world) today.
What could a former catcher (the most difficult position to play on a baseball team as well as the important player on the team) possibly know just because he was a 7-time All-Star, 3-time WS champion, NL MVP, GG Award Winner, 5-Time Silver Slugger award winner, Batting Champion, team leader on one of the best MLB dynasty’s of the past 40 years, and future Hall-Of-Famer, possibly know about building a winning MLB organization and team compared to some nerds fiddling with their computers 12 hours a day and emailing one another to create a narrative and than taking a shot at the future HOF’er as being out-of-touch pathetic dinosaur.
Long sentence. But deserved.
The knowledge isn’t in doubt. It’s whether he has the skills to execute. His first crack at battling agents and executing FA seems ok. We can give him credit for Chapman Adames and Verlander. That’s a pass in my world. Battling other execs in trades I’m not so sure about. Might be a fair learning curve there. The “hyperactive” comment from another exec scared me a
bit but he eventually got a couple on the board. His a smart well put together guy. I’m sure he will get better at the role as time passes.
Pure speculation on my part, “pretty set” likely means they don’t have an interest in any of the available free agents remaining at least at their current $ ask. Zero chance Alonso sees Oracle Park as a destination for his bounce back season. I liked Ha-Seong Kim, I’m not sure which was more shocking, that it was the Rays who signed him or the contract terms/$. I wonder if we hear later SF was in but they didn’t wish to match those contract terms.
Previously it was reported they seemed anxious for the trade market to open up, I doubt they were waiting just to move on from Rogers, so there’s still that.. I do still like FA David Robertson as a roster fit however I wonder if he’s looking for Kirby Yates $ or if his preferred landing spot is one of the teams still in on either of Alonso/Bregman so he’s waiting. A guy like him can sign later with no ill effects.
What does seem clear is at the moment they don’t wish to have a DH only type on the roster. This spring training I’m sure we’re going to see a lot of Luciano, Matos, McCray, Encarnacion the latter who is out of options. David Villar is the only other OOO player so they are good on that front.
$6M at the trade deadline lets SFG take the entire contact of someone earning $18M and it goes without saying they want to reset their CBT in 2025.. In general they have dry powder to be opportunistic, the moment Alcantara show’s he’s healthy in MIA the Marlins will move him, can’t the risk of re-injury. SD, SEA, MIN, STL are also teams that are looking to shed payroll as they all deal with RSN hangovers. We shall see.
So, basically it’s a development year of sorts. The team needs to see what it has. Will Ramos and Fitz take another step forward? Will Matos, Luciano or Encarnacion break out and become the next Ramos or Fitz? What can Lee do with a full year on the field? Will Eldridge come up and start mashing? Will Harrison and Hicks take another step forward? Will Birdsong or others in the pipeline, after one of the first 5 starters inevitably gets injured? We need a season to figure this out. I imagine Verlander is getting paid as much for his on field performance as for his mentoring of a young and talented pitching staff and prospects. It’s like year 1 of a 5-year plan, and they should be interesting to watch.
Go Giants!
The best thing Buster could do for this team is strap his F#€£ing cleats back on and play 1B
Could be that they don’t see much value out there right now and the plan is to see what the kids can do and hold some cash in case someone becomes available at the deadline.
>”He also spoke fondly of valuing runs batted in as a statistic”
Lmfao
Well, I understand your perspective, but let’s ponder the quote for a second. It doesn’t seem like SF has had many guys who have been among the RBI leaders for years. I could understand hunting RBI. Enter Adames.
2024 Chapman 78 RBI
2023 JD Davis 69 RBI
2022 Flores 71 RBI
I see an RBI problem for the last 3 seasons.
Those are the Giants team leaders in RBI for the past 3 seasons.
Maybe they should get on base more? RBIs is a team stat. If you’re out there looking for guys with high RBI totals during the offseason or any part of the season for that matter, you don’t belong as an executive in baseball.
How do the Giants have a payroll near $200 mil? The roster is filled with young guys and no-names….
They all were given a dozen eggs.