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Pirates’ Spencer Horwitz Out Six To Eight Weeks Following Wrist Surgery

By Anthony Franco | February 12, 2025 at 7:08am CDT

February 12: Horwitz’s surgery was to address “chronic symptoms,” the Pirates announced (as relayed by Hiles). The expected timeline for recovery is six to eight weeks, confirming that Horwitz will miss at least some time to start the season.

February 11: Pirates first baseman Spencer Horwitz will miss time in Spring Training because of a right wrist injury, report Andrew Destin and Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. While specifics on the injury are unclear, Destin and Hiles write that Horwitz underwent surgery at some point and remains in a cast.

It’s an alarming start for the Bucs as camp gets underway. Pittsburgh acquired the 27-year-old Horwitz at the Winter Meetings in what amounted to a de facto three-team trade involving the Blue Jays and Guardians. They sent back-end starter Luis Ortiz and a pair of pitching prospects to Cleveland for Horwitz, whom the Guards had acquired from Toronto hours before in the Andrés Giménez deal.

Without a timetable on the injury, it’s possible he’ll still be available on Opening Day. Yet it’s clearly not an ideal beginning to his Bucs tenure. Horwitz is the favorite for the first base job once he’s healthy. The Pirates are betting on his minor league numbers and relatively small-sample production in the big leagues. Horwitz had an impressive .265/.357/.433 showing across 381 MLB plate appearances last year. He connected on 12 homers while showing strong strike zone awareness. The lefty hitter walked at an 11% clip while striking out just 18.4% of the time.

Plate discipline has been Horwitz’s calling card throughout his career. He has posted excellent minor league numbers, including a .316/.433/.471 slash over parts of three Triple-A seasons. The statistical profile is robust, but most scouting reports have been less bullish on Horwitz’s bat translating against big league pitching over the long haul. He’s a middling defender who fits best at first base, though he logged nearly 300 innings at second base for Toronto last season. There’s a lot of pressure on the bat if he’s to be an average or better regular at first base. Horwitz doesn’t have huge raw power. Last year’s 16 combined homers between Triple-A and MLB represented a career high.

Pittsburgh got very little offense from the position last season. Their first basemen hit .230/.295/.380, landing in the bottom third of MLB in all three categories. That was almost entirely on the Rowdy Tellez/Connor Joe platoon. The Bucs parted ways with both players. Aside from Horwitz, they haven’t made any notable additions there.

Should Horwitz begin the season on the injured list, 26-year-old Billy Cook is probably the top in-house option. He hit .224 with 19 strikeouts and zero walks in his first 16 major league games late last season. The righty-hitting Cook posted a solid .275/.375/.474 showing in the upper minors between the Baltimore and Pittsburgh systems. Baseball America ranked Cook the #12 prospect in the Bucs system this winter, writing that he has decent power and athleticism but concerns about his pure hitting ability.

The Pirates already planned to get Bryan Reynolds work at first base this spring. That could take on added urgency now, though it’s unlikely that the Bucs would move him to the position on an everyday basis. Pittsburgh got almost nothing out of their right fielders last season. They’ve agreed to terms with Tommy Pham on a $4MM deal to raise the floor at that position, but the outfield would again become a significant concern if Reynolds moved to first base.

There are a few unsigned first basemen who are still available. Justin Turner and Anthony Rizzo seem likely to secure big league deals. Mark Canha might get an MLB contract as well, while Yuli Gurriel and José Abreu are potential minor league options. Whether the Bucs expect Horwitz to miss time in the regular season could impact their decision to potentially bring in a veteran on at least a minor league contract. Former Phillies first baseman Darick Hall will be in camp as a non-roster invitee. Tomorrow is report day for pitchers and catchers, so the team may provide an update on Horwitz’s injury in the coming days.

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Pittsburgh Pirates Billy Cook Spencer Horwitz

Cubs Outright Rob Zastryzny
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The Opener: Pitchers And Catchers, Cardinals, Kershaw
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157 Comments

  1. Clofreesz

    4 months ago

    I forgot this guy is on Pittsburgh…

    1
    Reply
    • Chuck from Uniontown

      4 months ago

      Our biggest acquisition of the off-season, sadly.

      10
      Reply
      • RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame

        4 months ago

        Horwitz is better than you seem to think. If he can stay healthy, he’s got the potential to be a .280/.360 guy with 20hr pop over a full season..

        5
        Reply
        • PoisonedPens

          4 months ago

          Sadly, Horwitz’s not going to have any pop right after wrist surgery, though. Usually takes several months to build the strength back up, since flailing a bat is about the worst thing you can do during recovery.

          9
          Reply
        • bucsfan0004

          4 months ago

          The Ortiz for Horwitz trade looks worse and worse

          5
          Reply
        • Canuckleball

          4 months ago

          Both Ortiz and Horwitz are under team control for a bunch of years, Ortiz still has 2 years of pre-arbitration, while Spencer has 3 before arbitration.

          That trade wasn’t made for the first 2 months of this year. In the long run, Horwitz is still a solid get.

          The belief, at least according to the Blue Jays broadcasters/reporters, was that with Spencer’s bat control and strike-zone awareness, he has a very solid offensive floor, and with a mild change to his approach, more power was still in there. He had already made some improvements during last season. He’ll never be Pete Alonso, but a 25-30 homer season seems reachable for him (even if not this year due to the wrist recovery).

          Big picture, there’s a decent chance he’ll be a solid 1st bagger for the Pirates for years to come, so don’t get too down on things.

          10
          Reply
        • DarrenDreifortsContract

          4 months ago

          You need more than a potential 20 home runs from your first baseman.

          1
          Reply
        • Major League Baseball Fan

          4 months ago

          But this is the Pirates…

          Reply
        • Canuckleball

          4 months ago

          There’s a lot of different ways to generate offense. Old school thinking says each position has to hit a certain way, but reality is you need a certain amount of offense across the team, and that offense can come from anywhere, in any form, as long as runs get put on the board. A first basemen who hits 25 homers and 50 doubles with a good walk rate is still a highly valuable hitter.

          5
          Reply
        • Dock, you're pitching today

          4 months ago

          Yes, high floor. This guy is a piece – a potentially effective one – but not the straw that stirs. DK is reporting the Bucs are working on a big trade (I’m dreaming Bleday or Robert).

          1
          Reply
        • Jbigz12

          4 months ago

          Need a lot less than 25 hrs and 50 doubles to be productive.

          20 hrs and 40 doubles very likely puts you 15% above average.

          4
          Reply
        • GOP Lizards

          4 months ago

          owned by a billionare who does business like a paperboy.

          Reply
        • Digdugler

          4 months ago

          Not as bad as the Horwitz for Gimenez

          1
          Reply
        • Never Remember

          4 months ago

          Oh stop. He is a replacement level player at best.

          1
          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          4 months ago

          You need more than a potential 20 home runs from your first baseman.
          =====================
          With a good OBP, it’s ‘okay’ especially if they can play I’d be more concerned that they are running out of options for Davis. The Pirates are burying the guy.

          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          4 months ago

          DK is reporting the Bucs are working on a big trade (I’m dreaming Bleday or Robert).
          ====================
          Hoping for Mayer/Chandler.

          Reply
        • panj341

          4 months ago

          Bucsfan0004
          Don’t they give these guys physicals before making a trade?
          Why would you trade for a guy that needs an operation?
          I keep thinking Cherington can’t become more incompetent and he surprises me.

          1
          Reply
        • CleaverGreene

          4 months ago

          Says who? You need decent defense and a productive bat.

          Reply
        • PoisonedPens

          4 months ago

          Sure, but they are already carrying a third baseman in KeBryan Hayes that has regressed offensively since signing his long-term deal and have other instances of what may be charitably called lineup holes. Is Henry Davis ever going to hit?

          Reply
        • TJECK109

          4 months ago

          Probably Paul Skenes for bonus pool money from the Dodgers

          Reply
        • Windowpane

          4 months ago

          Not if you’re Cleveland!

          Reply
        • Windowpane

          4 months ago

          Based on about 400 abs? He could be another bust.

          1
          Reply
        • OilCanLloyd

          4 months ago

          Don’t think he has power beyond what we’ve seen. He never has. I like that Pirates got him, but not at first base.

          Reply
        • touch_the_floor

          4 months ago

          I immediately thought the same thing. If it’s “chronic” why did it not show up on a physical? And if they did know about it, why not get surgery in December?
          Consistently maddening.

          1
          Reply
        • Scott Kliesen

          4 months ago

          BC stated in an interview this was a new injury that occurred after the trade.

          Reply
        • bucsfan0004

          4 months ago

          For some reason i see Ortiz as a sub 3.5 ERA guy for Cleveland averaging 10Ks/9 and our man Horwitz struggling to keep a .700 OPS, especially after a wrist injury.

          Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          4 months ago

          Idk why people are so high on Ortiz.

          He’s definitely not a high-K guy and was more of a 5 inning spot starter type

          I think he’ll improve , but his ceiling is still pretty low for me

          Reply
        • Squeeze32

          4 months ago

          this is one of the most insane string of comments i’ve ever seen.

          claiming 25 hrs with 50 doubles is *still* a valuable hitter.

          exactly zero hitters reached 50 doubles last season.

          a 25 hr/50 double hitter would be one of the most productive players in the league.

          Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          4 months ago

          Pirates got a really good player and don’t even know it..

          The sudden wrist surgery is concerning though.

          Overall, high OBP around Cruz and Reynolds is going to be key.
          Get Horo, IKF, Nicky G on base, and see what happens.

          If Suwinski & Cruz can bring some power, there’s some hope for the lineup.

          Kebryan Hayes is another X-factor who could determine a lot about the depth of the lineup

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          Again, I applaud you on the rose colored glasses

          Hayes is the biggest bust to come down the pike in decades. Great glove. So is Alika Williams. Had one good half season at bat. Wishes to look like Mister Cool out there but perhaps he should’ve put more time in batting refinement.

          And Horwitz? They got him at bargain basement price and in a year, you’ll have forgotten all about him

          Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          4 months ago

          You’re actually stupid.

          It’s OK tho

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          And you’re consistently wrong. About the Pirates. About the Steelers

          It’s ok, though. I’ll remind your fanboy carcass in September. Again. Moron

          Reply
      • PiratePartyTime412

        4 months ago

        I’d say getting rid of Chapman was the best move but that still leaves a big old hole at 1B Thats been there for a decade & continue to ignore lol

        Reply
  2. Ignorant Son-of-a-b

    4 months ago

    Riding dune buggies with Fernando Tatis ???

    3
    Reply
    • IronBallsMcGinty

      4 months ago

      No, he was practicing archery with Fernando Rodney.

      And now I’m hearing Fernando by ABBA in my head.

      1
      Reply
      • Rsox

        4 months ago

        There was something in the air that night…

        1
        Reply
    • PoisonedPens

      4 months ago

      Popping wheelies with Jeff Kent!

      1
      Reply
    • O'sSayCanYouSee

      4 months ago

      Sneezed with Sammy Sosa?

      Reply
  3. jturk

    4 months ago

    Shoot me. We haven’t had a legit 1b since Willie, and that was years before I was born

    2
    Reply
    • lukesdad

      4 months ago

      Jason Thompson, Kevin Young, Sid Bream, Josh Bell?
      Nah, I tried. You are correct Pops was the last legitimate 1b to suit up for the Pirates.

      6
      Reply
      • Braves_saints_celts

        4 months ago

        Adam laRoche maybe? A pirate 2 and a half seasons from 07 to 09 trade deadline. Even then, nah, I see what you guys are saying. Kind of sad…

        1
        Reply
      • Braves_saints_celts

        4 months ago

        And hey at least Kevin young’s 98′ and 99′ seasons were great, especially 99′ putting up 5.6 baseball reference WAR. But he fell off super hard after that. Again, very very sad…

        1
        Reply
        • Rsox

          4 months ago

          KY spent a year in KC’s system after 3 poor seasons in Pittsburgh and returned to the Pirates a completely different player. His ’97 season was really good too, especially since he only appeared in 97 games.

          2
          Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        4 months ago

        2023 Carlos Santana

        KY was good. Ike Gabby passable. Garrett Jones.

        Rowdy was great for 2 months. Morneau for a month. Nogo freaking awesome for 1 week.

        When you stink you don’t need a 1b or a ss or catcher or cf …… And other than 6 years in last 45 they stink.

        1
        Reply
        • TheMan 3

          4 months ago

          except that Morneau was obtained because of his power and never hit a homer and only drove in 3 runs as a Pirate

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Hadn’t hit 20 or more hrs in 4 years so I very highly doubt they got him for his power.

          Reply
        • TheMan 3

          4 months ago

          he still didn’t hit any as a Buc.
          Even worthless
          DLC hit a few after coming over from Miami

          1
          Reply
      • Dice 66

        4 months ago

        Bob Robertson, For sure Don Clendenon! I had bb card with Stargell and Clendenon together. Buc bombers or something like.

        4
        Reply
  4. BigBopper

    4 months ago

    Carries a good bat. Hope the wrist doesn’t affect this.

    Reply
  5. YankeesBleacherCreature

    4 months ago

    Turner is out of their price range. Sign Rizzo. Him and Cutch can tag-team and lead.

    Reply
    • MLBDraftKing25

      4 months ago

      Carpenter would be a great fit for them as well. He’s a better hitter than Rizzo and more likely to embrace a bench role when Horwitz is healthy.

      2
      Reply
    • Goku the Knowledgable One

      4 months ago

      Rizzo would probably retire rather than sign with the Pirates

      This is a great opportunity for Billy Cook, although signing Jose Abreu to a camp invite to compete could be interesting insurance

      2
      Reply
      • TheMan 3

        4 months ago

        a paycheck isn’t important enough for Rizzo to sign with the Bucs?

        1
        Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          4 months ago

          What are they gonna offer him? 2 mil?

          Either way, Spencer is only out a month, makes more sense to pay (what 80k?) for a camp invite-type vet, than to spend millions on a guy like Rizzo who really has no place in the lineup once Horwitz comes back, and hasn’t even hit well the past 2 years to justify squeezing him in.

          If they’re gonna drop a couple mil, much rather see that end up in the pen

          Reply
        • TheMan 3

          4 months ago

          who says he stays healthy all season after having wrist surgery ?
          They need a backup plan and expecting Billy Cook to successfully play first base is living in fantasyland

          1
          Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          4 months ago

          Rizzo is not a backup plan. He’s gonna need at least 6 mil.

          As the article states Reynolds would play 1B with Cook in the OF

          Reply
        • TheMan 3

          4 months ago

          Cherington yesterday said that Reynolds wasn’t going to play at first and neither was Endy

          Cook is the current backup plan

          1
          Reply
        • Goku the Knowledgable One

          4 months ago

          Interesting

          Would’ve thought that would’ve been a great opportunity for Reynolds to get some work at 1B before his likely permanent move there in 26

          Reply
  6. gbs42

    4 months ago

    I wouldn’t call his acquisition “a de facto three-team trade.” Pittsburgh didn’t send anything to Toronto.

    1
    Reply
    • Dustyslambchops23

      4 months ago

      Not everyone needs to trade and recieve pieces to make it a three team trade

      It’s defacto three team because Toronto sent something to Pittsburgh, just through cleve

      Reply
  7. mlb1225

    4 months ago

    The pain never stops.

    4
    Reply
    • mlb1225

      4 months ago

      If he put up a 127 wRC+ with a wrist injury, I think he’ll be fine after the surgery.

      Reply
  8. YourDreamGM

    4 months ago

    Hopefully it doesn’t destroy his career.

    Smart easy move would be sign Rizzo.

    4d chess move move Reynolds to 1b sign Verdugo to play LF or Canha Pillar.

    Pirates move move Reynolds to 1b and #JackIsBack LF. Sign no one. I mean Grichuk was probably a free agent still when Horowitz had surgery.

    1
    Reply
    • TheMan 3

      4 months ago

      Cherington told 93.7 the fan today that Reynolds is moving to right field so Phamm can play left field, and Reynolds won’t be playing at first base at all.
      He also indicated that he probably won’t be looking outside the organization for a backup first baseman

      1
      Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        4 months ago

        Must have got a huge extension. Why he doesn’t care why he didn’t get fired.

        Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        4 months ago

        May be thinking to teach Bart how to play first base and let Endy catch against lefthanders.
        Or maybe Davis at first so they can play him at every position.

        Reply
        • TheMan 3

          4 months ago

          the first baseman is historically a power hitter
          I don’t see any of these options fitting the description.
          Davis is lucky to make contact with the bat

          Reply
  9. pantherfan73

    4 months ago

    Try Henry Davis at 1st? Otherwise, he’ll be in AAA. Clearly a FA isn’t an option, or you’re following the wrong team. We’ll see a waiver wire at some point come through.

    5
    Reply
    • JoeBrady

      4 months ago

      pantherfan73
      Try Henry Davis at 1st?
      ===========================
      I don’t follow the Pirates, but i am always intrigued by failed prospects (1970s Raiders fan). What are the Pirates’ plans for Davis? Is he out at catcher? Can he play anywhere else?

      Can he hit? He’s hit well in the minors, but not consistently. in his first trip thru AAA, he performed very well, albeit in small # of ABs. In his second pass in AAA, not so very much.

      1
      Reply
      • joew

        4 months ago

        Unless they trade catchers he probably moves position and be third catcher. If he starts hitting MLB pitches of course.

        Probably OF to take advantage of his arm but anywhere if he hits.

        Reply
        • panj341

          4 months ago

          Joew
          Davis in OF was hard to watch last time.
          Don’t expect it to be any better this time especially since they didn’t play him there all last year.

          Reply
        • joew

          4 months ago

          @pan yeah it was, keeping in mind he is still fairly new at it while still working on his catching. If they put him full time at another position he would pick it up. Maybe not well but probably passable

          Reply
      • RodBecksBurnerAccount

        4 months ago

        You’re asking a lot of questions that still need to be answered. Even the Pirates don’t know the answers yet.

        He’s a bat first catch even when they drafted him. He’s hit very well in the minors but hasn’t produced at the major league level…yet. With the breakout of Joey Bart last year and the presence of their other top prospect catcher Endy Rodríguez, I would imagine he will be playing elsewhere this year. He was predominantly used in RF his rookie season so a move to the OF could happen. He hasn’t played 1B professionally yet. I think he’s hitting will improve once he finds a position in the field.

        I would say it’s still early to call him a “failed prospect. He only has 329 career at-bats. I mean look at Joey Bart. He was a 2nd overall pick and just last season had his first good season in the bigs and that was after the Giants gave up on him.

        1
        Reply
        • TheMan 3

          4 months ago

          correction
          the Pirates don’t know anything

          Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        4 months ago

        Joe- Thanks to the Red Sox forCherington,but the truth is he absolutely has no clue with Davis.
        They needed a catcher when they drafted him,and he was under slot and they later drafted Bubba Chandler because they had the money for him.
        They gave him a glove two years ago,and like many other players,stuck him in right field after never having played there,
        He hit well in AAA and was a fine hitter in college.
        The Pirates brilliance came through once again in 2024 when they told Henry,hey,we made a mistake,you ARE going to be a ML catcher this year.Good luck,and by the way,learn all of your Ml pitchers in Spring Training.
        He has the perfect arm for right field.Where did he play last year in AAA-catcher.
        Can he concentrate on hitting if he is an outfielder- yes.
        At catcher-no.
        Do they need him to catch with Bart and Endy-no
        Would he have good potential as a DH-yes.
        But they resigned the 37 year oldMcCutcheon to hit there.
        Why did Horowitz wait until recently to get a wrist operation?
        This tells you all that you need to know about the Pirates.

        3
        Reply
        • joew

          4 months ago

          @mendoza

          Yeah. If he was hitting anywhere close to his AAA numbers he is good enough at catcher. They cannot carry someone who is subpar defense and not hitting. even more so now when you have Bart and Delay with Endy coming around again.

          Davis is great to have as a 3rd catcher but that rarely happens so who cares 😉

          Reply
  10. آلي مكبيل_.._.بيتزا بيبيروني آشتون كوتشر

    4 months ago

    It’s not a major concern. They have plenty of options at first base, including Endy, Jared Triolo, Billy Cook, Isiah, Darick Hall, and Munez. They could also explore a position shift with players like Hayes, Palacios, Davis, Jack Suwinski, or Jack Brannigan—Reynolds could even be in the mix if needed. Derek Shelton even has some experience at first.

    3
    Reply
    • ronnsnow

      4 months ago

      Yes it is a major concern because other than Endy, NONE of those players can hit.

      2
      Reply
      • آلي مكبيل_.._.بيتزا بيبيروني آشتون كوتشر

        4 months ago

        It’s not a concern because they’re not putting a competing team on the field as clearly seen with the rest of the holes in the lineup. It doesn’t matter if the first baseman can or can’t hit. They just need to show up for 162 days. That’s what the off season told us.

        3
        Reply
        • Fever Pitch Guy

          4 months ago

          كوتشر – The Bucs made a $68M net profit for the last reported season (2023) which is quite clear they are more interested in making money than winning.

          At the very least, revenue sharing recipient teams should be required to return some of that shared revenue if they make a profit.

          6
          Reply
        • joew

          4 months ago

          @fever the report was for operating income which is not profit. It does take into account most operating expenses but from my limited experience usually doesn’t include other expenses.

          Teams are required to spend 1.5x the amount received from the sharing. They seem to give leeway for those who are pretty clearly tearing it all down but after a while real penalties can happen. I believe it goes as far as denial of sharing and loss of draft picks but I could be making that part up.

          They’re not in the poor house by any means, they can certainly afford to do more but the Owners are more business people staying out of the red is more important than Wins. If for some reason the Pirates lose revenue sharing they are in the red. If I were the owners group looking from a business angle I’d probably do the same.

          Reply
      • joew

        4 months ago

        Endy.and his bat are as much of a question mark as Davis.

        2
        Reply
      • joew

        4 months ago

        @ron Endy, Cook and Hall have very little mlb time so harder to make a determination on their MLB hitting, they had some good success in the minors though.

        Triolo and IKF are gold glove caliber defense that are a net positive. how well that translates to 1b is unknown but worth trying.

        I would love to see IKF on first for at least a few innings at first just for the neet-o factor. He has played the other 8 positions during his MLB Career.

        Reply
  11. stymeedone

    4 months ago

    Agreed. Getting someone who wants to play fulltime, and get paid as a full time player, because Horowitz is gonna miss a couple weeks is a ridiculous idea.

    3
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      Bob Nutting himself has joined us

      3
      Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        4 months ago

        Your comment is now worth Nutting.
        Bob has left the building.

        1
        Reply
  12. wvsteve

    4 months ago

    PNC made for left handed batters. Line up pretty right handed to me. Great leadership and vision running the show

    2
    Reply
  13. ronnsnow

    4 months ago

    Lonnie Chisenhall 2.0

    4
    Reply
  14. Buff Barnacles

    4 months ago

    Love the Jose Abreu suggestion.

    3
    Reply
    • Goku the Knowledgable One

      4 months ago

      Agreed. Give him a minor league deal with a May opt-out

      I think Billy Cook can likely handle the role, but it’s worth it to see if Abreu can get back to anything close to what he was on a risk-free deal

      Doesn’t hurt to have that extra depth in camp incase another injury pops up too.

      5
      Reply
      • MrMuyBueno

        4 months ago

        Extra depth? That’s hilarious.
        They have such little talent here that you’d wonder just who should be called “depth”

        1
        Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Depth is great. 40 man loaded with average meh players. IKF gets hurt who cares Peguero just as meh. Gonzales gets hurt got less bat more glove Triolo. He gets hurt he’s so unexciting Yorke can’t be much worse can he? At least as good as washed up Frazier. Endy can’t hit gets hurt you got Davis and Delay who can’t hit. Pham ain’t much better than Palacios. Cook Suwinski need a look. Pretty much as long as Cruz Reynolds Bart doesn’t get hurt it doesn’t really matter. Those are only 3 who could make a all star game and only 1 of them has. Just a team full of just guys.

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          Yes!!!!!
          Might as well buy a bigger van for the shuttle to Indy and run it daily
          This entire roster is average at best. At best
          They have one player: Reynolds
          Just not enamored with exit velocities and throwing velocities until Cruz proves he can refine his basic mechanics

          70-72 wins.

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Cruz already better than anyone not named Reynolds will ever be. I have Cruz better than Reynolds as he can play cf and be placed at ss.

          Reply
        • Scott Kliesen

          4 months ago

          Skenes is average at best?

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          Cruz is a pure athlete. Hopefully, he’ll grow up and get out of his own way.
          He’s proven nothing defensively yet.
          And as a hitter, he’s got a ways to go
          His plate discipline is awful and he doesn’t hustle.
          Again, maybe he’ll mature and evolve
          Reynolds is no superstar, but he’s consistent
          He won’t dog it and while he’s not a gold glover, he’s not going to lose you games by being a bonehead
          Watch some games and get back to us
          I like Cruz and his potential.
          I liked Poloanco, too

          1
          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          Gee, Scott. You must be new here
          Let me break it down again
          Skenes is a generational talent
          It’s great we’ll get to see him here for awhile
          Put Skenes on the Pirates 35 years ago or more and I see a big change in the team’s fortunes
          Now, in the era of 5-6 inning starts, not so much.
          I like Skenes. And Jones. And Keller
          The Pirates only had to build around their pitchers this off season
          A couple stronger bats
          A middle relief pitcher or two

          They did nothing.
          Skenes is a generational talent on a team of average talent, at best. At best

          1
          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Scott is just restarted. Can’t figure out we were talking about hitters and hitters only.

          1
          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          4 months ago

          Now I fully realize your definition of a rebuild.
          Get rid of all of the old players and try to achieve a 500 team.
          That is an admirable goal for this team.

          2
          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          4 months ago

          Mr Bueno-You seem to have at least some hope that Cruz will change.
          Who on the Pirates will guide him to do so?
          If Cutch has not guided him who else would?
          He was lucky that he had Taylor last year to help him to learn how to play centerfield.

          1
          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Win percentage doesn’t matter for the rebuild. Rebuild was over in 2022. If they fail to win 80 games in 2025 2026 or win world series both years the rebuild was over in 2022 either way. Rebuilds don’t have to be successful.

          Rebuilding teams don’t trade prospects for scrubs like IKF Cruz. Don’t trade 3 pitching prospects for a trashed wrist. That’s what teams who’s rebuild failed do.

          If Cherington is fired. Wouldn’t surprise you if they fired Shelton and gave Cherington another year would it? I can’t believe they are still here now so nothing would surprise me. New gm doesn’t mean another rebuild. They could and should try to contend in 2026 2027 even 2028 if 2027 was a success. Trade Keller Skenes Jones Reynolds Cruz Bart Bednar Santana and reload to build around Konnor Bubba who have hall of fame ceilings.

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          I think yours is a very basic, rudimentary definition of “rebuild”. And that’s fine. We get it
          KC. BAL. CLE. MIL. All went through rebuilds. Using your definition, it meant simply pushing out the old deadwood on the MLB roster and inserting the kids from the farm in their place.
          Ok TB did this as you eloquently explained a couple years ago and did it for years
          TB had an exemplary farm system
          The aforementioned teams also had good farm systems but not as thorough where depth was concerned. Through trades and signings, they augmented their rebuild with affordable, established MLB players. And became contenders
          This is where Mendoza and I tend to scoff at the idea of the rebuild being complete in Pittsburgh, as the franchise has refused to augment
          Again, it’s like building a house on a shaky foundation or with windows that haven’t been constructed properly. Wouldn’t take a great deal to fix if only the owner cared

          This latest posting, Dream, makes me wonder if you were hitting the schnapps last evening.
          Other than saving even more money, these “trades” have made little sense

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          I actually see him regressing this year, Mendoza
          MLB pitching coaches are ingenuous. They learn how to address batters’ weaknesses and adjust. Cruz hit a bunch of homers last season. His average was respectable.
          But having watched him, he never corrected glaring problems at the plate which he’ll pay for this season
          His knowledge of the strike zone, inability to see spin pitches, lack of understanding where the count and pitcher strategy is concerned…portends trouble ahead

          And yes, the lack of hustle and white flag waves against left handers, the stupidity he displays in trying to show off his arm—-it all goes uncorrected here with Uncle Sheltie and the lack of true veteran leadership here

          Had to laugh at the Trib article this morn that had Hayes saying he’s healthy and has to be a leader here. Wonder if he said that with a handful of sunflower seeds.

          Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        4 months ago

        Billy Cook ceiling is that of a healthy KeBryan Hayes.
        Not going to cut it at first base,

        1
        Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Cook will cut it as well as anyone they have. Not like they are signing someone and no one is available anyway.

          1
          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          4 months ago

          I would like to see Cook get a chance but with these veterans there are only so many slots available.I think that he will turn out to be a decent utility man.
          Maybe Cherington just cannot count in signing Frazier.

          2
          Reply
  15. SteveM7

    4 months ago

    Ben Cherington has officially devolved into Dave Littlefield.

    3
    Reply
    • TJECK109

      4 months ago

      That’s offensive to Dave Littlefield

      1
      Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      Dave was terrible. Couldn’t do anything well. Did everything awful rock bottom. Huntington Cherington pretty good. Only problem they couldn’t find anyone who could develop prospects. Most important thing so they are awful as well.

      Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        4 months ago

        The real question is- Dave Littlefield or Ca Bonifay?

        Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          Larry Doughty

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          No one was good at development since the 70s as seen by lack of home talent. At least the guys from the 3 playoffs years stretches could make trades. 93 to 2011 was pitiful.

          Reply
  16. wvsteve

    4 months ago

    Any idea when surgery took place? Reason why he didn’t have it as soon as off season was over? Another blunder from this front office. Forgive me if recent memory recalls to free agent signings where they signed with the pirates got a few year’s salary and then never played another game in the majors

    2
    Reply
    • ElGaupo77

      4 months ago

      Dude, this is on player. Probably had nagging issue all winter. Came to ST and pirates made him get MRI.

      Reply
  17. El Kabong

    4 months ago

    Trade him to the Mavericks.

    3
    Reply
  18. westcasey

    4 months ago

    Canha(36) would be a decent sign.
    He can hit, play 1B, bats RH (oppo of Horowitz), also play LF.

    4
    Reply
    • 21Clemente21

      4 months ago

      This is best bet for now, I thought the same, veteran presence

      Reply
    • unpaidobserver

      4 months ago

      Short side platoon DH.

      Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      Canha perfect fit for Pittsburgh. Makes perfect sense. No brainer. That’s why their no brain gm won’t sign him.

      Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        4 months ago

        They should have signed Canha instead of Pham.
        And no Frazier.
        They still need a good veteran right handed reliever.

        1
        Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Still can sign Canha!!!!!! Don’t let them off the hook!!!!!!

          Reply
  19. DDRAIG

    4 months ago

    BC has another aporia.

    Reply
  20. joew

    4 months ago

    Well doesn’t that just suck. He’s going to need a lot of leeway to get timing and strength going once he is healthy. Hopefully he’ll be back before the end of spring to get that process going.

    Reply
  21. swanhenge

    4 months ago

    Cue the Casas for Jones trade talks again…

    Reply
  22. Dock, you're pitching today

    4 months ago

    This is getting interesting. “Chronic” problem, so I’m assuming (!) – hoping more like it – BC knew about it, which speaks even more to how much he covets SH. Another move – hopefully a big one – is on the horizon. Folks have been talking about how the surgery is going to negatively impact his power but if the problem has been chronic it might attest to his hitting abilities and might explain his relative lack of power, so that post surgery he might demonstrate more. Of course, he might just be a Mark Grace type which would be a perfect fit at PNC. Stay tuned.

    Reply
  23. warnbeeb

    4 months ago

    I find it interesting that Spencer Horwitz is better than Spencer Torkelson.

    Reply
    • Rsox

      4 months ago

      Spencer for Hire was better than both of them, but no one messed with A man called Hawk…

      1
      Reply
  24. wvsteve

    4 months ago

    Very interesting DK daily shot today. Says the big move is still coming. We will see

    Reply
  25. Gobraves88

    4 months ago

    Hey is Horwitz good defensively or more a DH type?

    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      Good defensively as 1b likely.

      1
      Reply
  26. HEHEHATE

    4 months ago

    Maybe it’s Malcom Nunez time. Anybody?

    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      Mason Martin

      Reply
      • HEHEHATE

        4 months ago

        He’s never healthy

        Reply
  27. holecamels35

    4 months ago

    Wow, as if there wasn’t enough pressure on this guy already to be the big boost to the offense, given that he and Pham were the only additions. Tough start.

    Joey Gallo incoming??

    1
    Reply
  28. MrMuyBueno

    4 months ago

    So much for Horwitz leading the cavalry over the hill to save the Pirates in 2025.
    You could almost expect as much from this pathetic franchise
    70-72 wins in 2025. Bank on it

    Reply
    • TheMan 3

      4 months ago

      As much as I want them to win, on the other hand, I wouldn’t mind them losing 100 games again
      I think that would guarantee Shelton and Ben a ticket out of town, permanently

      3
      Reply
      • MrMuyBueno

        4 months ago

        Unless Nutting goes with them, I don’t see much changing here. He wants to go cheap on everything and I think all of baseball would be wary to take a job here

        Reply
  29. Mike Adamson

    4 months ago

    The Pirates continue to prove why they’re the worst run organization in all of sports!

    2
    Reply
    • JoeBrady

      4 months ago

      Not even close to the Angels or Rockies. I don’t always say this, but this is on the owner. This isn’t like Oakland or Miami where fans can count the attendance to amuse themselves. If Chandler gets promoted, they could have the best rotation in BB, and they’ve handed out maybe $1.5M in FA contracts?

      1
      Reply
      • Jbigz12

        4 months ago

        Pittsburgh not attempting to supplement that roster is criminal. So much talent in that rotation that will be wasted on the piss poor ownership.

        I get not spending in the lean years when you’re rebuilding in that market but you have to put some money out when the team starts coming together.

        2
        Reply
  30. TJECK109

    4 months ago

    “Chronic symptoms” and he passed a physical?

    What a trash trade by BC. Absolutely disgraceful

    3
    Reply
    • panj341

      4 months ago

      The same guy who gives a rare Pirate long term contract to a guy with chronic back problems.

      1
      Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      Maybe Nutting paid for the best medical team $ can buy and fleeced Toronto Cleveland!!!!!!!

      Reply
  31. 66TheNumberOfTheBest

    4 months ago

    There is no guarantee that Skenes won’t blow out his UCL this year and be lost to the Pirates for 2 of the 3 to 4 years they have left with him.

    SO…this was the off season to try to build an offense to compete with their young staff and they didn’t even come close to pretending to try.

    So, any notion that Nutting is just waiting for the *right* moment to spend is now proven false.

    1
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      If they ever make playoffs and attendance goes to 2.3m he will spend 100m only because the attendance allows it. 2.5m he might go to 110m. Won’t ever go beyond that unless other owners force him to.

      Reply
  32. Gator Bait

    4 months ago

    Time to let Billy Cook

    Reply
  33. آلي مكبيل_.._.بيتزا بيبيروني آشتون كوتشر

    4 months ago

    Looks like they just signed Daniel Vogelbach…as a hitting coach.

    1
    Reply
  34. TJECK109

    4 months ago

    According to an article in the trib BC acknowledged knowing about the chronic issues with a tendon in his wrist but still felt comfortable with the deal. The reason for the surgery was a new form of discomfort in the wrist.

    Gave up a young controllable SP and 2 prospects for damaged goods.

    Should just be fired now

    4
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      4 months ago

      Should’ve been fired after not being able to improve development after 5 years. Maybe year 6 it all comes together. All these failed players will start hitting. Although if he believed that he wouldn’t have traded 3 pitchers for a trashed wrist.

      So waste another year of the little talent there is. New gm can come in and sign or trade for a 1b and RF.

      All Cherington needed to do was trade for Naylor or Lowe. ( Since Goldschmidt 12 to 15 million probably off limits with Nutting) Sign Grichuk. Or Tauchman. Or Canha. Wouldn’t guarantee playoffs but would give them a shot.

      I was ok with Horowitz trade. 3 pitchers they would never develop into anything close to special. Didn’t know about the trashed wrist. You can’t give up 3 pitching prospects to roll the dice on a injury. Maybe Nutting got the best medical doctors $ can buy and knows the wrist isn’t a problem! Could have just given Cleveland another prospect, got Naylor, give him a QO and get back a prospect better than any you gave up.

      Reply
      • MrMuyBueno

        4 months ago

        And you’re still wrong about Ortiz, and I’ll be reminding you about it all season
        You just gave him away for a guy who will be another “just passin through type”
        Bright eyes can come along and tell me what I saw with Ortiz wasn’t actual in true analytic nerd style, but he was better down the stretch than Keller

        Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          I’m not wrong. If Cleveland doesn’t improve him he’s just a guy. And they might but Pittsburgh wasn’t improving him unless Harrington would teach him a new pitch. Era should have been 4.31 he was just extremely lucky.

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          Abject baloney. I might as well be talking to the analytics clown
          Lucky? Pitching for the Pirates? You can’t be serious
          Please note, I’d be fine trading him. Or Keller. Or Oviedo. But jeez, get something in return

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          That’s all smart teams care about. What you should have done vs what you done. What will you do moving forward. 98 percent of people look at it the way you do. That’s why I look like genius.

          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          It all comes back to the idea of rebuild, Dream. There’s no genius involved here
          Let’s say it again, if we agree the rebuild is over then surely, we agree that it was completed with a great many deficiencies in the final product
          The Pirates refuse to address those deficiencies. Horwitz was like putting superglue on a huge crack in the foundation.
          All of this said, I can understand trading from areas of depth to fix the deficiencies. The Pirates did not do that and have done nothing this off season
          It’s almost incredible.

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          Rebuild finished up in 2022. They traded all expiring players and secured #1 pick. 2023 they weren’t ready to contend yet but gave it a try and injuries got them. That’s why they weren’t ready, no depth.

          Bell trade absolutely nothing.
          Marte trade a kid who can play ss but can’t hit.
          Tailon trade absolutely nothing.
          Stallings trade Nicolas.
          Frazier trade Jack but they broke him.
          Rich Rod nothing
          Musgrove Bednar and whatever endy gives

          Trades were actually pretty good. Just development was awful. These weren’t high tier trade chips. The 2 best ones Musgrove Marte got pretty strong returns. But if this is as tuff of rebuild a gm could do and it is vs easiest Washington having 2 mvp contenders and a cy young contender to trade. They got more for Juan Soto alone than Cherington in 5 years worth of trades. Then again Cherington could have traded Reynolds Keller Bednar at peak value and missed on that opportunity.

          Not to give them a pass but as my friend likes to say you can’t get blood from a stone. Yet Cherington did about as well as he could. Bell trade was weak but it’s a dh with severe ups and downs and not cheap salary. Peguero hit the ball really hard for his age. Quick hands. Athletic. No doubt SS. It wasn’t until 2024 they got him well enough to play SS. It shouldn’t have been that hard. He should have been starting SS last year with around 800 ops. His ceiling was everyday no doubt ss might get a all star game or 2. Malone was a worthy 1st round pick, he just couldn’t stay healthy. Marte trade should have been the best or 2nd best trade in building the future pirates. Malone better prospect than any of the 3 sent to Cleveland. Better prospect than Harrington Burrows Solometo Barco.

          Head was projected late 1st round talent. Padres paid him more than any 3rd round draft pick in history of mlb draft. Like 3 million. He was their Bubba. Kid hasn’t improved since he got here. You’ll love this. Pirates got him started him in low A spent all of 2021 there never promoted. Not a good sign. But started 2022 in high A ok it’s something. All of 2022 in A. Starts 2023 in A. Spends all of 2023 in A. Take.a guess where he started in 2024? Ok smart guy, but where did he finish in 2024? Wow you are getting good at this. 360 at bats. 133 strike outs. .208 batting average. That doesn’t look like Altoona material to me. Looks like 4 straight years in Greensboro.

          Padres actually did Cherington a favor. Head was a no doubt cf and if bat played all star ceiling. Cherington wanted Tucipita Marcano! No doubt 2b with ZERO power. Padres thought he was better as well so Pirates had to settle for Head.

          1
          Reply
        • MrMuyBueno

          4 months ago

          Well stated. Pretty good rendering of things and yes, you can’t get blood from a stone which again makes me wonder about the process of scouting young players and assessing their abilities
          Player development has been horrible. Scouting isn’t too far behind that description
          Anyone can list can’t miss prospects as targets. It’s the diamonds in the rough that aren’t making it here anymore—the guys missed by other orgs
          And it’s the continual misjudgments on position players especially that’s hard to miss here.

          1
          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          4 months ago

          There aren’t many diamonds in rough. There’s video and data on just about everyone. Why the draft is drastically shorter and less minor league teams.

          1
          Reply

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