The Pirates’ 2026 infield figures to look considerably different than the group that’s been trotted out for much of the season. Pittsburgh succeeded in shedding all of the money owed to third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes beyond the current season when they shipped him to the Reds prior to the trade deadline, and veteran Isiah Kiner-Falefa is a free agent at season’s end. The Bucs have plenty of young infielders who could step up and get looks next year, but general manager Ben Cherington acknowledged this weekend that some offseason additions could be on the horizon (link via Kevin Gorman of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review).
Though he didn’t make any definitive declarations, Cherington noted that he “would expect we would” add to the infield in some capacity. That comment came amid a broader discussion of Jared Triolo’s defensive versatility. Triolo isn’t hitting at all this season but has played quality defense at first base, second base and third base while even showing the ability to handle shortstop on occasion. Cherington suggested that Triolo “at least … part of a shortstop solution” as an option the Pirates could consider.
Triolo’s ability to play anywhere at a relatively high defensive level is a nice perk, but if he’s to be a real part of the Bucs’ solution around the infield, he’ll need to show more offense. The 27-year-old instilled hope in Pirates fans with a .298/.388/.398 slash in 209 plate appearances as a rookie in 2023, but that production was propped up by a colossal .440 average on balls in play. Triolo has predictably regressed since that time, recording just a .204/.290/.304 line (67 wRC+) in a much larger sample of 641 plate appearances.
Developing hitters has been an immense struggle for Pittsburgh — a problem that spans multiple front office leaders and multiple iterations of the dugout staff. The emergence of recurring back injuries for Hayes has played a part in that, but he’s just one of several notable Pirates position prospects who simply haven’t been able to hit in the majors.
Henry Davis, Liover Peguero, Travis Swaggerty, Endy Rodriguez and Ji Hwan Bae have all struggled upon reaching the majors. Nick Gonzales has been a bit better than league average at the plate this season, which makes him one of the system’s most prominent success stories in recent years. Other top prospects like Termarr Johnson and Lonnie White Jr. have seen their stock take a major hit as their bats have slowed in recent minor league seasons.
The lack of development among the team’s young position players leaves the Pirates with glaring needs up and down the roster. Among Pirates hitters with at least 100 plate appearances this season, only Gonzales (104 wRC+) and Spencer Horwitz (102 wRC+) have provided even average offensive output. Oneil Cruz was hot earlier in the season but has fallen off considerably since early June.
It leaves the left side of the infield, in particular, wide open. Kiner-Falefa spoke to Gorman and indicated an openness to returning, perhaps with more time at the hot corner, but said he’ll leave any such discussions to his agent and Cherington in the offseason.
The Pirates do have some hope on the horizon — and meaningful hope, at that. Nineteen-year-old Konnor Griffin currently ranks as the No. 1 prospect in the entire sport over at Baseball America. Last year’s No. 9 overall pick has split the season between Class-A and High-A, hitting a combined .332/.410/.532 with 16 home runs and 53 steals in 438 plate appearances — all against older and more advance competition. It seems unlikely that he’d be pushed to the majors early next year, but later on in the 2026 season and certainly in 2027, Griffin could be an option at shortstop if he can remain healthy and if the Pirates can finish off his development in a way that’s eluded them with countless other prospects.
Pittsburgh was never going to make a play for a multi-year option at shortstop in free agency anyhow. As MLBTR’s Contract Tracker shows, the Bucs haven’t signed any free agent to a multi-year deal since giving a three-year contract to righty Ivan Nova back in December of 2016. In general, it’s a light class for free agent infielders anyhow, with Bo Bichette and Alex Bregman standing head and shoulders above the rest of the group (and, obviously, miles out of the Pirates’ financial comfort zone). Eugenio Suárez will be a free agent as well, but he’ll be well beyond the Pirates’ comfort levels.
That said, exploring the trade market will be a feasible option. The Pirates are deep in young pitching. Paul Skenes and Bubba Chandler won’t be going anywhere, but Pittsburgh also has names like Mike Burrows, Braxton Ashcraft, Thomas Harrington, Johan Oviedo, Hunter Barco and, of course, veteran Mitch Keller as options to potentially bring in some infield talent at either left-side position. Any help would be sorely needed.
Pirates shortstops this season have combined for an awful .246/.292/.315, translating to a 69 wRC+ (i.e. 31% worse than league-average at the plate) that ranks 27th in MLB. Third base has been even worse. Hayes, Kiner-Falefa and Triolo have combined to hit .229/.280/.299 while manning the hot corner. No team in baseball has a lower wRC+ from their collective group of third basemen than Pittsburgh’s 60. The Reds — the team that acquired Hayes — are next-lowest at 65.
If Ben Cherington
The Pirates should pursue Owner and General Manager help this offseason as well.
That photo shown here does appear Cherington hearing that Nutting is indeed still his boss.
Ok.
Can it just not be with Cheringtona tt he helm?
The only thing BC should be pursuing this off season is a new job
Looks like Cherington will be back. Nutting just let him gift Bednar and Falter for weak return. Players who if you were planning on firing Cherington you wouldn’t trade now so you can let the new gm trade them. If Cherington is so bad he is going to be fired in 2 months why would you let him even listen on non rentals and even trade numerous ones? Only hope for Cherington getting fired is that Nutting is a idiot.
Dumping that Hayes contract might have got him an extension.
Dumping that Hayes deal was the best work I’ve seen Ben C do as GM of the Pirates. Can’t believe he got someone to take it off the books.
Lets top pretending 8mil per year is alot these days
It is for anyone with an OPS under 600,especially for four guaranteed years.
Normally yes, but when you factor in the fact he is the best defender in baseball regardless of position, its really not a bad contract. A team with a potent lineup can absorb him.
That may be true,but it is close to the equivalent of having a good hitting pitcher in the number nine batting spot.
I could see teams like the Yankees with numerous good hitters and plenty of money but there are only a handful of teams like that.
Did the Yankees trade for Hayes? So it’s maybe just the reds. Has anyone seen other 3b? They aren’t much worse than Hayes and hit and hit hrs. Who cares if he is the best defensively. If it isn’t drastically better it doesn’t make up for the bat or the 8m.
Bad back is why they wanted rid of him. His best production may be behind him. He needed a new team. It was good for him.
First off, he’s not the best defender in baseball
Secondly, he was never a hitter. He had one good half season. Nothing more
He was signed as a PR move—-to try to demonstrate to fans that the franchise has turned the corner
It had. A complete U-turn into the abyss
Lastly, this guy wanted out of town almost immediately. And he wore it as his demeanor
I’d have helped him move. Good riddance
Maybe the Yankees decided against it and were too smart to give up anything.
That does not mean that teams like them would be the most amenable to acquiring someone like him.
If Ben Cherington is the GM next year I think I would try to switch my alaegence to the Red Sox since I live in Massachusetts. The problem is even with the crap that comes with being a pirates fan I love them too much to quit,
Looks like Cherington will be back but if any owner is stupid enough to let a guy you are firing in 2 months run your draft and trade deadline it’s Bob Nutting.
how many times are you going to basically say the same thing about Ben?
Ai- Cherington has done fairly well with the draft.
Bednar may have been a salary dump by Nutting just like Hayes was and told Cherington to get the best players that he could get.
Only Cherington’s stupidity trading Falter as Heaney is no substitute.
Nutting evidently said that he did not want to change GM during the season,
If he said that it would mean after the season is fine.
Let’s build him a statue for his draft work. Guy never picked lower than 9th. 1 #1 overall picks. Skenes is nice. KG looks great. What else are you impressed by? The average 2b taken 7 overall? The average 2b prospect 4th overall? The 500 something ops catcher taken 1 overall? Big believer in the big bonus $ pitchers? Well Bubba looks promising. Solemeto Harrington not so much. What prospect taken after round 3 is impressing you?
Bednar wasn’t a salary dump. Lesser relievers brought back better prospects. Maybe Cherington is the best talent evaluator in baseball and everyone else is wrong.
I do not know anybody after the second round.I do not want to learn to be an expert on this because I am really only interested in what they do if they ever make the ML’s.
You are the “expert” on that.
You were impressed when Cherington got a catcher that he needed under slot then cherry picked Bubba later on.
Termar according to you was about as good of a rated hitter for a high schooler ever.How has the development for him worked out and how has he worked out?But if the scouting was true he was a good pick.
You were very impressed with this year’s first pick and in a gushing manner.
I don’t give him any credit for Skenes.
Gonzalez has been a solid ML player.
Your boy Connor is the most highly touted prospect in baseball.
I thought that Huntington for the most part was a good GM.His drafts had several non players in them though.
I will not build a statue to Cherington but as a minimum I stand by my statement of his doing fairly well in drafting.I cannot comment on the lower rounds which are pretty much a crapshoot for any GM.
Specifically,how do you disagree?
The Pirates have historically traded star players one or two years before they reach free agency.This was one of them.
Nutting won’t and probably shouldn’t change his tune on that philosophy as many small market teams do the same thing.
It was a salary dump because they did not get much for him.
They easily could have traded him this winter and had at least the same number of interested teams and had the time to get more for him.
You can say what you want but as we both know Nutting was involved in this trade and we both know he wanted to save money.
And it was a salary dump pure and simple just like Marte and Bell were.
I don’t know anything about the later drafted guys either. I just know what #7 #1 @4 overall look like. I know other teams find good players later in drafts and the Pirates don’t.
Cherington hasn’t done anything special with the draft. His teams have just been so bad he gets a high draft pick every year. Other gms who are even worse (why they are picking even higher than the Pirates) for some unexplained reason decided not to draft the best player in the draft.
Why isn’t Cherington hitting on later round talent? Answer is why he is hitting on early round talent. He can’t even develop a talent like Davis TJ so how is he going to over develop and hit the jackpot on some under the radar player. Everyone had Bubba as a 1st round talent. Just no one would or could pay him 3m so he wouldn’t go to Clemson. He’s spending all his $ in first 3 rounds to bribe clearly talented kids not to go to college. After round 3 or 4 he is just picking up whoever is desperate willing to take what little $ is left.
They didn’t get much for Bednar because Cherington says he is smarter than everyone else. He took lesser industry regarded players than he could have received. He said this. Heck he bragged about. They got a lot for Bednar. You’re just dumb and Cherington is smart.
And that is just another reason why he really needs to go.
We do not know whether the lower rounds have not produced anyone because the scouting is bad or the development is awful.We know the second is true in general.
It seems that your point is that most of these first round choices fell into his lap.
My point is that at least he did not seem to screw them up,as some GMs may have done in not picking them
You will never dump the Pirates, been too long to give up now.
Stick through the struggle for a few more years. Pirates games aren’t nationally broadcast on a regular basis so make sure you watch as many Skenes and Chandler starts you can before calling it quits as a Bucs fan. They’re both gonna be good for awhile but we only have a few years of raw skills and power before they become more refined pitchers and it’s fun to watch young kids just overpowered seasoned veterans
Most Pirates fans should find other teams. They blame Nutting for not spending $ which isn’t the problem. You are the problem. You can’t realize or accept the fact you are rooting for a team in Pittsburgh and owners except Cohen don’t spend their own $. A new owner won’t spend their own $. You need to find a new team in larger city.
And the fans that realize this that say well Milwaukee Tampa are successful. You need to fo root for them at least until Nutting dies and his daughters sell the team. Nutting is so stupid Shelton managed team for 6 seasons before anyone realized hey this guy doesn’t have a clue. Cherington is still here! And Nutting just let him give away Bednar Falter. Bucco bricks rained down on Nuttings head and yet Williams is still here. How’s Pittsburgh going be Milwaukee with brain dead Nutting hiring the president and gm?
AI GM – I think Pittsburgh can hold its own financially. They have the Steelers and Penguins who have been very successful teams and I’m pretty sure they don’t have a notorious reputation for being cheap. The Pirates ownership not giving a multi-year free agent deal since 2016 is LAUGHABLE. I feel so sorry for Pirates fans and wouldn’t blame any of you for wanting to jump ship
NHL NFL has salary cap. That’s why Steelers Penguins can compete because it’s fair.
Pirates aren’t cheap. They are just a small market team. No small market team has ever had payroll over 150 million. Almost always under 130.
Pirates haven’t been any good since 2015 so why would they be giving out multi year deals? And 1 free agent in Pirates price range isn’t going to make them good.
Salary cap is their only hope where teams are Forced to spend a certain amount and apparently the chances of it happening are higher than ever.
If that doesn’t happen after 26′ pirates fans will be forever be suffering and with no help in sight.
☹️
They will still suffer until they get a good gm. Salary cap isn’t going to make them develop players better. It will be a level playing field though.
I don’t feel like it will happen though. Owners are making $ right? Players don’t want salary cap right? So even if owners did it would likely cost them a year of making $ until players cave. Enough owners would have to grow a backbone and demand it. Teams with their billion dollar local TV rights aren’t going to want to share more $ with the bottom feeders are they?
I can see some fake cap to trick fans into thinking it’s a cap. Floor ceiling too far apart or too much wiggle room.
If owners wanted a cap they could just used the luxury tax as one. But any market that could go over it has done so.
You think Nutting cares about winning? A salary keep just means more revenue sharing for him. Just give him more $ and he will forget all about the cap. Others will as well.
Only reason owners are even thinking about a cap is because of the death of cable TV. They lost half their customers. Cable TV companies aren’t able to give into teams demands so if you say take it or leave it they have to leave it. Cohen spending. Dodgers deferred. Cap looking good to 28 teams.
I think if something happens it’s going to be lame. :stricter luxury tax penalties” A cap with wide gap and loop holes to go over. New and improved luxury tax.
Players are irrelevant though. If owners wanted cap they would had one years ago and the players would not only settled for it but they would have been the ones calling for it. Demanding it. I think all this cap talk is just negotiating. Don’t think owners want cap. If they do they can call me and I will have the players on their hands and knees begging for a cap.
What do Dodgers referrals have to do with a salary cap? Deferrals have to be funded annually as they occur and that $ is charged against the cap that year. A salary cap would have no bearing on deferred $. Deferred $ is not some nefarious tools as many make it out to be. Some fans being financially illiterate does not equate to something being a tactic to circumvent something.
San Diego’s market is comparable to Pittsburgh—about 15% bigger. The Pirates payroll is not comparable to the Padres—about 1/3rd the investment.
there’s no reason the Pirates can’t have a similar payroll as other small markets and teams can compete with a $120 million payroll. it all comes down to a dirt bag owner and a bad league that allows owners to basically steal money (revenue sharing)from other owners and not spend it on the roster.
yes, thanks for telling us that we should root for another team
SMH
Tigers isn’t smart enough to figure it out
What NFL team does San Diego have? What NHL team? How many cold rainy days does San Diego have in April May? How’s San Diego attendance compare to Pittsburgh? Go f yourself San Diego.
What other small markets have a 120m payroll this year?
Deferallare paid out in present day value at time of deferral and charged accordingly against cap. Player is gaining peace of mind at expense of the time value of $.
As far as a loophole or benefit, it is not. People like you speak of deferrals as if tho its akin to charging on a credit card and worrying about later, which it absolutely is not. How deferrals are funded, when, and cap charges are all outlined in CBA.
Every team can defer $. The lower market teams typically do not do so as they are not signing players who command the type of $ where deferrals typically happen.
KC, MIL, and Reds all have smaller markets. KC $134M CIN $119M and MIL $113M. Thats just naming the teams in even smaller markets.
I wish i was a KC fan… seems like theyve done everything right. Pushed all their chips in and won a WS. Then years later when a generational player comes along, they sign him to a mega-deal. Cant imagine they draw well when its 100 degrees and humid in July/August
I spoke no such thing. You just for some strange reason took what I said and ran with whatever your lil mind did with it.
So you named 3 teams and 2 of them were under 120 got you.
What exactly did I say you spoke?? You just randomly blurt assumptions from what I can see. And it seems those assumptions typically are quite far off…
“What exactly did I say you spoke??”
We’re making progress. You at least understand you are blabbering on and on not knowing who what where why when you are talking about.
“People like you speak of deferrals as if tho its akin to charging on a credit card and worrying about later, which it absolutely is not. How deferrals are funded, when, and cap charges are all outlined in CBA.”
You didn’t @ anyone so if the “people like you speak” isn’t referring to me then my apologies.
Who are you responding to if not me?
Excuse my typo, thank you tho for correcting it.
The point still stands deferalls are in no way nefarious and are not this crazy loophole they are often portrayed as. They also do not skirt the luxury tax.
As outlined in the CBA deferrals are funded annually as they happen in the year they are deferred. That $ accrues to the amount that will ultimately be paid. That is the same figured charged for luxury tax.
Excuse me as well. Just was trying to figure out who you were talking to. I am well aware of how deferrals work. Don’t see anyone disagreeing with what you said. But you do you and keep talking about them deferrals. Educate the world on them. This article is old though so you might want to do it on a new article with more traffic.
Then why mention “Dodgers deferred” after Cohen spending? The Dodgers deferrals are in no way nefarious and Ohtani is currently costing them $49M annually funding the deferrals and his salary, which is also true value of what they ll ultimately pay. The rest of that inflated # will be paid by a 3rd party.
Cohen’s spending annually isn’t all that egregious either, other teams have outspent him every year. The Soto contract as a whole I can’t easily dismiss as not being egregious, but time will tell.
By and large there absolutely are the haves and have nots in MLB. Spending alone doesn’t equate to World Series wins, it increases likelihood of contending exponentially. Ultimately tho free agent spending is also part paying for players with name recognition. So big market teams are often over paying in regard to production. They are however gaining recognition for their brand and bolstering revenue and franchise value. So I dont think a salary cap solves all that much. Id say stricter luxury tax penalties and ties to escalators in revenue sharing would help. As would an absolute salary floor. The current salary floor of league minimum x roster is woefully inadequate.
They’ll sign Kevin Newman and Vidal Brujan to minor league deals and say they went “and got some infield help”. This team will never be successful with Cherington making moves, and they’ll never not be a joke with Nutbag as the owner. They are right there with the Rockies for being perennially clueless on how to improve.
What’s amazing about this need for infield help is failed draft pick after failed draft pick that they used on infielders.
This team is terrible to the basic core of drafting and developing
They need more than just infield help
Their catchers have a combined 7 homers
Ketel Marte fits within the budget
Yeah but he’s a good player, so he wouldn’t be on their radar. Cherington would probably dial the wrong number, and end up overpaying for Starling Marte instead.
Exactly. They sign people every year. The question is where do they shop? Macy’s or the .99 cent store?
Ketel Marte is available in trade per a column here a few days ago saying the Diamondbacks are looking to shed salary
Pirates FA signings are like discounted meat at Sam’s Club. Have a little shelf life left, no one else wants it so they buy it and watch it go completely bad before it makes it to the grill
Nobody shops at Macy’s.
Shopping at K Marte
More likely a bottle of Ketel One vodka.
The vodka is for the fans.
There is a reason there is a bourbon bar at GABP too.
Great news for Adam Frazier! He gets another season in the sun with no pesky expectations.
I grew up north of Pittsburgh in the 60’s.
Not a lot of sunny days,had a lot of cloudy and rainy ones.
Frazier should go back to San Diego if he wants sunny days.
Infield help = 38 yr old utility player on minor league deal
Zack Cozart, you ARE a PIttsburgh Pirate.
Lesson to everyone. Say no to crack.
Ships off Hayes then wants infield help. It’s a bold strategy.
You hit better than Hayes Jimmy.
Reds fans will gladly ship him back for nothing.
Hayes wanted to be traded
The Reds have a few third baseman for you.
Must say, I’m missing Huntington. Cherington seems to lack any plan.
Huntington understood the assignment working for Nutting. Cherington understands Nutting doesn’t fire people and pay them their legally obligated salary for terminating contracts.
Yes, but I will never forgive him for wasting years of Gerrit Cole by making him pitch to contact. NH’s “system” for pitchers was garbage and hamstrung a guy that should have been winning Cy Youngs in PGH.
The Rockies will actually have a glut of young infielders this offseason. I suspect going forward in 2026 the Rockies infield will be
3b Kyle Karros
ss Ezequiel Tovar
2b Adael Amador or Ryan Ritter
1b Warming Bernabel
That leaves Michael Toglia and either Amador or Ritter without a spot. They could play Ritter at third in order to season Karros more, but I don’t think that is needed. Toglia may have some trade value, but could just be non tendered. But I could see some combination of Toglia and/or Amador/Ritter going to the Pirates for pitching.
I should add Cherington is responsible for freeing up more time for me as I am less inclined to watch Pirates games.
Basically, one in every five starts we tune in for.
Nick Yorke sure has become the redheaded stepchild of the franchise.
Can’t remind fans that we gave away Priester for him.
No pirates fan was upset when Priester got traded. He sucked in Pittsburgh. Please go into the archives and show utter disappointment from pirates fanswhen the pirates traded at the time a crappy pitcher for a position player. Every pirates fan yells at the top of their lungs trade the abundance of pitching for a bat. He didn’t even last long in Boston. So they didn’t see anything in him either. I bet Priester comes back down to reality sooner than later and is an average pitcher. I sure wouldn’t want him pitching in a playoff game.
mlbtraderumors.com/2024/07/pirates-red-sox-to-swap…
It was a awful trade from day 1 and I trashed it. Worked out exactly as I predicted.
Gotta give it to you.
You apparently don’t believe pitchers can be fixed by changing their arsenal. Milwaukee pitching coach Chris Hook has been fixing pitchers since 2019, when he turned Corbin Burnes from a two-pitch failure into a Cy Young winner. The Brewers’ success is based on developing young players.
Fans forget we had a pitching coach here in Ray Searage who did just that, Jim. Charlie Morton, Frankie Liriano, AJ Burnett and many others.
Someone taught Priester how to get out of his own way and to focus on what works in his arsenal. Good for him. He got out of baseball Siberia and is flourishing. Hope he continues
Any idea what happened? Sox fan and I don’t really follow the Pirates, but thought wow Yorke might be a solution. His AAA numbers look fine.
Nothing happened. He’s just as good as he was with the Sox unfortunately.
It’s fun to come on here and take a few shots at the Pirates cheap ownership. But it’s obvious Bob Nutting isn’t moved by anything written about him in an internet comment section. Pirates fans need to take a different tact to solve the problem.
I say this in all seriousness: boycott. I mean completely. Picket outside the stadium. Shame anyone who enters. Force ownership to come to the negotiating table, not with the union, not with an agent, but with the fan base. Let Nutting know that he either needs to change his methods or sell the team because that stadium can set empty for eternity if that’s how he likes it. Something will happen. MLB hates being embarrassed on a national stage and that scenario would be very embarrassing. It’s never happened in the NFL or NBA. Rob Manfred could never allow it to happen.
Pittsburgh is not Oakland or Tampa. The league won’t allow the Pirates to leave but they can force Nutting to sell. Pirates fans need to do whatever it takes. The DeWitts have been put on notice in St. Louis. It didn’t happen overnight but real change is happening as a result. Owners can be forced to take fans seriously if the fans unite and keep their money in their pockets.
Pittsburghers have nothing better to do than watch fireworks and collect Chinese bobbleheads. 1.5m show up no matter what. NY LA and the other $ teams will give Nutting their $.
In case you hadn’t noticed, much of the fan base has been boycotting for years. And that’s the problem.
No Owner not named Cohen will spend more than they take in. Pirates payroll is in same ballpark as A’s, Rays, and Marlins because their attendance is in their neighborhood.
The only reasonable way to significantly change this is for Pittsburgh to embrace the Pirates in a meaningful way, or for MLB to create a new economic system where large markets don’t have a huge financial advantage.
In order for fans to flock back to the stadium, they will need to win in a way they haven’t for 10+ years. Even as unlikely as this seems, it’s more likely than baseball owners and players to start acting like business partners and create a new system where money isn’t the biggest factor in a team’s success.
Not how running a business works. You make a product that people want to pay for. The product Nutting puts out should only have 700 800 thousand fans. More people need to stop enabling him. Some people are unable resist fireworks and cheap Chinese garbage. Nutting knows this.
*700 – 800 fans*
Some people just want to watch baseball. Some people in Pittsburgh are fans of other teams. Other teams fans attend games in Pittsburgh. Got your point though it deserves to be that little.
The Pirates have a horrible Owner. But Pittsburgh baseball fans are awful, too. If they were half as supportive of the Pirates as they are the Steelers, the Owner would allocate more to payroll.
In 2015, Pirates fans were supportive. In 2016, payroll was $100 million.
You want better players? Prove it by supporting the team.
You’re sounding a lot like the Nutting apologist here. But you have it backwards, Scott
You forget that the palace Nutting conducts business in—baseball’s finest stadium—was built on the backs of taxpayers. Although he wasn’t the owner at the time, you’d like to think the promises made by the previous owner to local politicians and the citizenry at large would still have some merit.
No one is asking the owner to bring in upper echelon free agents and everyone knows the realities of small market teams but let’s be real
He’s cut payroll repeatedly while accruing growing revenue streams from various outlets like MLB and national TV rights. To mention attendance figures alone is folly. They are a smaller portion of the bigger picture.
Meanwhile, the owner has spent millions on buying and developing properties around the palace to bring more fans and profits in as a destination landing
What’s the endgame here, Scott? You blame fans as the owner continues to reap more profits while providing one of the worst baseball franchises in MLB?
Maybe if Nutting showed some civic pride and responsibility. The Rooneys do and always have.
I’d wonder what attendance figures would be in similar markets like Milwaukee if ownership treated its fans with such blatant disregard
Here in Pittsburgh, the idea is to come for the park, the experience, the bobble heads, fireworks, hot dog launches and cheap T-shirts and just hold your nose as the home team goes through the motions
Sorry, it doesn’t work that way in any business.
The product is horrible and the novelty wears off quickly
Nutting wasn’t the owner but he was a minority investor
Scott-The Pirates have always taken a back seat to the Steelers attendance wise ,relatively speaking,even when they were very good.
It is true that at times they have not sold out championship games in the long time past
The Pirates had very good attendance in 2015 when they were very very good.
But it is difficult to judge Pirates fans as being unsupportive when the teams have been so bad almost all of the time over the last 33 years.
That is such a long time that casual fans over almost two generations would have lost interest.
Maybe the team should support the fans more.
Scott needs to take a very basic business course.
You don’t say to the customers my product sucks but if you pay for my garbage product I might improve it. Not how it works.
And fool me once ok but fool me twice? Yes fans showed up and payroll still didn’t go over 100m. So no reason to show up because Nutting still won’t spend.
I completely understand the issues fans have with Nutting and Cherington. But here’s my point, as a fan I want the Pirates to be a better team. To be a better team, they need better players.
One way to do this is to develop the players drafted and signed in IFA better, which likely means a new GM. The other way is to sign better FA’s. The only chance this happens is if Pirates fans support the team better. A study last year showed payroll tracks attendance in Pittsburgh. Compare Pittsburgh to Denver. Pittsburgh averages 19,000 per game because they have a crappy owner and team. Colorado has a crappy owner and team, yet they bring in over 30,000 per game. As such, they can spend more on players payroll.
Cmon Scott, you’re again sounding like the Nutting fan here. You’re providing skewed stats
to justify a faulty premise.
First off, let’s compare populations of Denver and Pittsburgh
Then let’s compare stadium size
And again, attendance has one of the least impacts on revenue for a franchise. It’s not the problem here.
Nutting can spend, but won’t.
That’s the bottom line. Not even for the mid tier types that Dream suggests
If you wish to embrace this mindset that you should support a much-lesser-than product, fine. But there are only so many fireworks nights or bring your dog to the park nights until the novelty of it all wears off and even the casual fan wonders, what’s up with this franchise?
Scott- Not to pile on,but Denver does have a much larger and almost certainly a more diverse population with real spending potential.Pittsburgh,neither so much.
That is like Richard J constantly comparing Pittsburgh with Milwaukee instead of any of the other six small market teams.I did a short study and the other teams are like the Pirates.The fans show up when the small market teams are playing well.
Small market teams have no alternative but to develop their players and manage them well.They can sign good mid level free agents to augment their good team.
Ask the Twins how their recent spending sprees worked out.
The Pirates have rarely won.
When they did people did show up as it is a great stadium with still reasonable prices.
Scott here’s some free life advice. Stop reading studies and start studying yourself. You think because Colorado is paying Arenado to play for the Cardinals and paying Bryant not to play baseball that is why more people are going to games?
You gotta be a kid or even more likely a kid interning for the Pirates. Did Mr Nutting tell you that he would love to give you a paid position if only anyone would come watch this garbage team.
Go intern somewhere else and hopefully learn something.
baseball-reference.com/teams/PIT/attend.shtml
2011 45m payroll
2012 70m
Attendance went up 100k.
2013 99m attendance went up again! It’s working!!!! More payroll more attendance!!! Scott and his study is right?
2014 attendance up again!!!! But payroll went down 20m!!!!! Say what? How can that be?
2015 payroll went up 25 million but attendance the same.
2016 payroll plummets back down to 80 but attendance not as much.
2017 2nd highest payroll team history 102 million attendance falls 300k.
Payroll irrelevant. It’s winning or the idea of winning that gives attendance. Unless spending $ creates winning it doesn’t help. 2016 was expected to be just like 2013 14 15 winning playoff baseball. And when it failed spending 20 some million in 2017 didn’t fool anyone. They knew the window closed.
All the years with 2 million attendance were teams expected to win. Payroll 70 80 100 million didn’t matter.
If Pirates won this year and made playoffs next year’s attendance would be over 2 million. Even if payroll was 80 million.
Even if payroll did equal attendance and it doesn’t but if it did Nutting wouldn’t increase payroll. 1 we already seen he didn’t a decade ago. 2 something called demographics weather and stadium seating capacity. Nutting could spend 400 million and have a 100 win team. Attendance would be under 3 million.
Fans watch winning teams. Period. If you own a team it’s your problem to make that team a winner and the fans problem to support a good team and refuse to support a bad one. Also bringing up the Steelers is asinine as the NFL is immensely more popular than MLB and likely always will be. This is apples and oranges although I do agree that the Steelers not being horrible probably had a lot to do with it. MLB has a cheapskate ownership issue to solve because fans aren’t going to tolerate certain franchises sucking bad for twenty years then threatening to relocate over a publicly funded stadium hangup for long.
Steelers even were supported better when they were losing in the 1960’s well before the nfl took off and baseball was king.The Pirates had some good teams during that decade which is when the nfl started to become popular
NFL plays one game per week and saying that is immensely more popular really is comparing apples to oranges.Baseball teams by that nature are not going to sell out every game.
Parents are becoming less trustful of football not causing serious injuries so the future may not be quite as bright as you say it is.
I disagree. Fans is short for fanatics. In the original sense of the word, it described someone who watched the sport for the sake of the game, not because their team was winning. Heck, I watch baseball/softball games where I could care less about who is playing let alone winning. I’ve stopped to watch high school games, city league softball games, little league games, etc. because of the game. People who watch only winning teams are not fanatics, they are casual spectators or bandwagoners. Winning teams attract more of them, but not more fans.
And that’s my thing, too. I watch baseball and softball at every level because of the game itself. Truly, big money and overhype killed a great deal of interest but at its core is the appreciation of the game itself.
Winning equals attendance in many cities with baseball at least.
NFL only has a few games. Steelers can be awful and people will show up. It’s only so many Sundays a year when the days are short and that’s what they do as habit. You never know Rodgers can have 1 more year in him. Next draft can be that franchise QB. If you give your season tickets up you ain’t getting them back.
Pirates 81 games get tickets easily. When they are good great. When they stink you can dump your season tickets and easily get them back whenever the 5 or 10 or 20 year rebuild is over. It’s summer lots of other things to do. Theirs no franchise QB in the draft to instantly make you great again. Not when you already missed on Craig Newman Tucker Hayes Meadows Glasnow Priester Gonzales Davis TJ. KG and Hernandez will be a big help. They will arrive just when it’s time to trade Skenes Cruz Keller Reynolds. Oh yeah NFL has a salary cap like every other sport so you can afford to keep your good players.
I been cooking of late huh guys?
Same old song and dance. Nothing changes but the names on the back of their uniforms. Pardon me as I don’t take what Nutting or BC say seriously. All hype, no follow through. Maybe get busy improving the hitting development for these prospects. Once they hit AA or AAA, they flame out. Tremarr Johnson is a testament of that. Surprised Lonnie White was mentioned in this, he hasn’t hit well enough since his pro ball debut. Swaggerty flamed out in AAA and he was suppose to be our CF of the future. List goes on and on. Just like every year they say they are going to be actively looking for help in one or another area. The Pirates owner and front office can not “close the gap” to winning and competitive baseball. Morale from players to fans is quite low. When there is little effort to develop or add strength to this club, no one cares and expect to have a bad season. It’s like having a bad supervisor who doesn’t care about what happens with the company, as long as they get paid. Similar to the Pirates situation in many ways. Production is low, and everyone is going through the motions during a long, grinding season. Hard to be positive when the ownership has yet shown us Pirates fans they are turning this ship around. If I was Don Kelly, I’d be happy when this season ends and be able to try and find work with a different organisation. Maybe Royals as a bench coach?
It could be worse. Have you seen the Nationals, lately?
Hey here is a thought you got Cam Devaney down in minors give him a f####ing shot !!!!!!
Did they not just trade Hayes. What a joke of an organization. They should make them play in Tampa or Sacramento
Hayes was awful. Needed change of scenery.
This is great. I sense they will definitely be playoff contenders next season. I imagine they’ll be signing Eugenio Suarez and Bo Bichette
This is a non story. His interviews have no credibility. To say they will look for infield help in the off season is like me saying I will need to put gas in my car sometime soon. Cherington needs fired. Heaney on the mound tonight giving up runs and taking away starts from young guys who we need to see what they can do. I turned the game off after BR missed a throw home by 10 feet
Reds were blind in acquiring Hayes- thinking they could get alittle more production out of him. Jokes on the Reds
I have a plan. The stadium deal is up in 2030. Tell Nutting he can spend more or move the team. If he isnt making money (as he claims) then he should be happy to go to Charlotte or another city with more people. If he is making money (as common sense dictates) then he won’t want to leave. He can spend more or they can go. It’s a win-win for Pittsburgh.
$ has nothing to do with it. They won’t force Nutting to leave the city to another they will just force him to leave.
The MLB can’t force an owner to sell short of breaking the law or a morality clause. The city can tell him to move along.
Sure they can. Cut the revenue sharing and he will have to willing sell. What’s he going to do lose $ every year? Even if was he willing he would have to sell. As chairman he has a fiduciary duty to the minority owners. Unless they are willing to lose $.
City is getting tax $. And politicians are easy and cheap to bribe.
They can’t cut his money just because. They have to vote on it and have proof he wasn’t spending on his team. Also, if you were a different owner, you would love Nutting. He makes a team that is easy to beat and never competes with you for FAs. They LOVE him.
The city (and voters) have to do something, or nothing will get done.
This subject matter is a above your knowledge base.
Ah, like you and having a civil conversation. Got it!
My patience runs thin sometimes. I apologize I am not a good wonderful human being.
Of course they can’t single out Bob Nutting and force him to sell the the team or cut just his revenue sharing. They can just make it so owners like Nutting won’t want to own a team. They have already started. Been doing it for years.
Owners hate Nutting. They aren’t paying him to have a easy opponent to beat. They want the Pirates to be good. That would be a lot more $ in their pockets. They want pnc park full.
Understood. We all fall short of what we should be. I apologize as well for my comment.
I think you do make some good points. The owners are not 100% behind him. Some want an easy win but you’re right, others are mad because they are sharing revenue and not growing the sport as fast because of bad owners like Bob.
We are on the same side, make the Pirates a franchise that CAN win. Nutting, as the owner, is an impediment to that. We need him gone if this team has any chance.
Honestly, we need a cap floor. It wont be perfect, but it would create more parity.
Need a smarter owner than Nutting. Maybe one that will spend a bit more but Pittsburgh is the problem. It’s too small.
No. It’s part of the problem, really.
You described the TB blueprint well a couple years ago. It’s the only way for the Pirates to succeed. But if you have poor development people and a farm system of stagnating kids not worthy of the MLB level, what can you do?
There was a great article that just come out about the difference between player development for NY and Pit. I think player development is the problem because Nutting is too cheap to hire good people. A baseball team can thrive in Pit but it needs to be smart.
100%. Better player development and better philosophy on player development
It’s possible the Pirates could become one of the best player development teams. Right now reds are better. Cubs are better and can spend 2 to 2.5 times more. Milwaukee is elite. Bloom built the sox system so Cardinals will be better. Most of the teams in baseball are trying to get better. “Just hire away smart good people from other teams” Everyone is trying to do this and other teams will keep their people. Milwaukee Cleveland Tampa they didn’t just become good over night. They have excelled at player development for decades.
Every team is trying to get better development. Dodgers are good at development and they have 400 million to spend on payroll. Padres Braves are good and they have 250m.
And when we get this genius gm who built this wonderful development a big dog like the Mets will come along and steal him or her like they did from Milwaukee. Except their won’t be a Bob Nutting who hires a Cherington instead of our just as good Arnold type gm.
Just hire other teams good people. Just hire the up and coming young people. Like the other 29 teams haven’t thought if doing this.
Actually Cherington has improved development greatly. It was rock bottom to start and it has been at a slow rate but it’s coming together. And every fans wants to fire him. Except me. I think the Pirates need better but don’t have faith in Nutting doing better. It’s a coin flip for me. Doesn’t really matter. Keeping Shelton was awful. But his draft trades have been good.
Finally
“Just hire other teams good people. Just hire the up and coming young people. Like the other 29 teams haven’t thought if doing this” (sic)
There are only so many teams. Only so many opportunities. This is the only path out of the wilderness
Just because it is hard, and you will lose people to other opportunities, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. Yes, everyone wants gooseneck people but there are only so many positions.
It’s also about team philosophy. They need to make individuals better in the minors, not concentrate on the teams wins and losses.
Call up Nutting and give him some names to hire. I don’t have any. I have to do my own scouting. These teams are clueless. Decades behind where they should be.
Dream, it’s not incumbent upon any fan to do so. It’s like scouting for the draft. You know the names because it’s a passion of yours. But average fans don’t follow scholastic players
Point is, you’d think big league teams have a good idea of up and coming scouts and development people. It’s not like MLB is a thousand little conglomerates or multi national.
You’d hope front office types are on the ball in every regard
In Pittsburgh, it just seems the opposite.
You give these scouts and teams too much Credit. What do you think of Ben Cherington? Awful? Terrible? He has the best hitting prospect in baseball. Best pitching prospect in baseball. 2nd best farm system in baseball? Got the best player in the draft even though he picked 9th and 6th. Got Bart Matson Santana for free because no one else wanted them. Dumped Hayes entire contract and got a borderline top 100 no doubt SS. So Cherington is genius or there’s a lot of stupid people in baseball. I’ll tell what one it is if you need help. How would the Pirates get these up and coming scouts? If Pirates know they are good don’t you think the team they are working for know this? Pittsburgh and Bob Nutting are going to win a bidding war? Or you getting them out of high school or college? A unknown to every team? Are these scouts go to be better than me? I out perform every team. I make fun of their stupid moves. I haven’t received 1 job offer. Rockies let dock Elvis go. Nutting never called him. Maybe he did and Elvis left the building.
It’s a good plan. Scout the college scouts. Teams already do that. Maybe former players who can’t make it and stay in the bigs? Teams already do it. So you are looking at hiring someone who isn’t a scout who wants to be a scout that no other team knows about.
Like I told you before. Good baseball people don’t grow on trees. It takes time to build a staff of them. Ivy league grad super scout Elvis might be happy making a scouts $ but the skills required to be successful are valuable and a much larger company is willing to pay more for them. But sure you have people who’s dream is to work in baseball. They probably dream of working for a team who has won a playoff series more recently than 1979.
It’s not about scouting. It’s about development.
Here are players and their career OPS in A/AA/AAA/MLB
Davis: 1039/847/975/569
Gonzalez: 950/811/895/696
Triolo: 849/795/841/639
Bae: 835/771/843/592
That’s a big drop off for the MLB
These guys aren’t being developed
But Prospect, you can’t get blood from a stone, either
I’m with you about development. But even a blind squirrel gets an acorn sometimes. (Sorry, that’s two corny statements and counting)
How is it that the Pirates farm has produced NO impact player for the big league team? And we’re not talking pitchers. It’s almost unbelievable
Look, these guys don’t arrive as mannequins. Sure, they need development but are you sure they’re drafting the right guys to begin with?
Who are we talking about? Names? I think the scouting has been above average. The 1st round picks have been automatic picks. They went so many hs pitchers rounds 2 3 that there isn’t much $ for later rounds but you would think they would hit on a few and maybe they will. Trades has been fair or better. I think it’s development. And I think they underestimated how bad their development was and traded for players they could never develop.
I think you’re kind of proving my point. They would have stumbled on an impact bat by now. But instead they are taking bad prospects and not developing them and they are taking good prospects and regressing them. It’s all development.
Problem is that you guys are essentially coming here at zero on the MLB-ready scale. You’re saying development people have to be Dr.Frankensteins and build players from the ground up
That’s just not true
Dream says they’ve drafted pretty well. What is your criteria for saying that? Are you relying on what publications say? I’d hope scouts work harder to identify guys than magazine people.
How do you draft for six years and not have one impact player? You’re saying draftees are just raw prospects. To me that’s doubtful when you’re drafting so high each year
AAAA, I agree about them taking bad prospects. I’d say they are taking “good” prospects and the kids are stagnating
You guys know better than me
I will say this where position players are concerned: I’ve never seen a group of players come to this level so devoid of fundamentals. As hitters, plate discipline is awful. Approach, having a plan, count knowledge, zone discipline, situational knowledge, plate discipline and ability to pick up spin—-all missing
And that’s just as hitters. We could spend days talking about baserunning, fielding, basic fundamentals.
More websites apps then magazines but they are a good source. MLB does use some of them to determine who gets rewarded potential draft picks. One of them is owned by mlb. They talk to scouts and front office people. They are wrong all the time and I call them out. Solometo Harrington Yorke Cook etc all the time. I watch video on top 50 to 100 draft picks each year. Up till whatever number I get bored. Rest I have no idea. I’ll just wait to see them in minors. I know much more about pitching than hitting but I give it a try. If I wanna know something I’ll ask anyone I know who should know. There’s so much data available these days which is critical. Data and using my connections. Using people who have more connections than I do like Robert Murray Jon Heyman. That was to find out if there was any interest in Pham at trade deadline. Those guys wouldn’t be too helpful with prospects although Murray lives in Arizona where fall league is and lots of guys train.
Everyone needs development. You don’t just get drafted and go straight to MLB other than a few people relievers mostly of late. HS kids even more raw. KG dad a coach and he is huge into analytics and hungry and hard worker. So he probably makes it not matter what. Gonzales built his own hitting training facility so a guy that dedicated makes it. Davis is a hard worker why he learned to catch.
Today they know everything. Have data on everyone. Video on everyone. They play so much baseball. Have leagues and tournaments and events so the competition is there to be seen. You have multiple writers talking to multiple sources from multiple teams. They don’t miss by much. Like pirates never drafted outside of top 10 and it’s hard for these sites to miss a top 10 talent. In case they do I do what work I have time passion to do. And I disagree with them all the time. You didn’t see any if them calling KG the black and gold Trout I promise you that. But not like they are way off. Their top 100 and team top 30 is where they really start to miss. If you remember I been warning people about Harrington Davis Solometo Gonzales etc for years. I trashed the trades for Yorke Cook. Gonzales was toast and then went out and built his own training facility and trained with other players. Davis couldn’t catch but went to drive line. So things are fluid but they went to extremes to develop. KG is an extreme as well. Freak athlete with highest work ethic possible. Pirates actually value character highly as they should.
Oh their fundamentals are terrible. They don’t put the ball on the right side with a man on 2nd and no out. They don’t put the ball in play with a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs. They don’t remember how many outs there are.
The Pirates aren’t developing these guys to be major league ready. The gap between the levels is large and yet these guys all look great in the minors and fall apart in the MLB. This has to change.
I like AAAA. Should have been nicer to you. It’s just I am a hole. I ham it up even more on here. And I get attacked by haters all the time so always ready to strike back with my snarkiness. You are alright though. After seeing Elvis you are freaking fantastic actually.
Cruz is never going to be fundamentally sound.
Not even close.
He is really a DH but only against right handed pitchers.
I would bring up Bae and let him play CF for a week.He has been hitting well in AAA and deserves another chance.
And when Cruz comes back he should not start against left handed pitchers.
Agree 100%
And really, why give anyone playing time who pretty much has shown nothing?
Triolo. Suwinski. Bart. Canario.
At least Davis has been better with the defense
And really, it’s probably time for Cutch to hang it up
So much deadwood here. Bring up anyone who has shown anything
And Cruz? Yeah, what a guy to build your team around.
Pardon my poorly written first line above
I meant that you are guys are saying prospects come here with generally just God-given talent and have to be molded into players
I get that Barry Bonds-types are generational but the Pirates have pushed guys through with little knowledge of game situations and little in the way of polished fundamentals.
I don’t think any of their players know how to bunt or hit to the opposite field
Cutch may be able to play another year and be decent but my guess is that he either drops off a lot and is unbearable to watch or he gets hurt.
He deserves a good send off and that is why I suggested his announced retirement this year.
He will be 39 in October.
I remember the great Willie Mays playing with the Mets at 42 and it was not pretty.
And Mays was the best baseball player who I ever saw.
Unfortunately,like our high schools,some very important things are no longer being taught.
While I criticize the Pirates it is probably an almost industry wide weakness.
The emphasis is on walks,who are now just as important as a single,and home runs,and strikeouts are just considered a cost of doing that business.
Very little small ball anymore.
Paul and I were very happy earlier in the year when Bae actually bunted for a single.
If they trade Cruz the fundamentals meter will instantly significantly increase.
KG best player I ever saw.
I know,you gave him an A+
We all fall short of who we wish we were. Thanks for the kind words. 🙂
You could be right. I love his potential but he is missing the part of baseball that lives between the ears.
I also agree with giving Bae another shot.
No, I think they are being helped in the minors to some extent but it isnt preparing them for the MLB, which is the job of every coach in the minors.
They need more understanding of fundamentals and how to improve on a personal level.
It’s a team following fads without understanding. Like a child repeating a joke they dont understand the punchline of. It isnt going to work.
I’ll go with Bonds.
Tell him he has to pay more in rent for every loss at home.
Noted veteran baseballer and troubadour Jose Iglesias to Pittsburgh in 2026. Book it!
Watching the Pirates/Reds game yesterday in that empty stadium was sad.
Watch Friday game when they gave out the dollar tree Hawaiian hat and cheer yourself up.
Bring back Frazier IKF. Just don’t listen to the fans and spend $. Fans wanted Conforto Santander.
To stay the status quo? What is firing Cherington going to accomplish if Nutting won’t increase spending?
Spending isn’t the problem.
First you need to be able to develop players.
Then not make weak trades with the ones you did develop.
When teams are spending 300 million what’s taking payroll from 80 90 million to 100 110 million going to matter? You’ll get Conforto Santander instead of Pham. Spending more would be worse.
“Spending more” should be part of Nutting’s plan, however. It doesn’t have to be a matter of extremes in the debate. Why do so many think that fans want the Pirates to outbid the Yankees or Dodgers for free agents? That’s not the case with any fan I know of
I like your viewpoints, Dream, and you’re right. They need solid young players and prospects. But first off, they need a front office to ably identify these types and then need a player devekopment department that can develop skills
But it all starts with money. We all know that if your goal is to cut spending to accrue even more profits, you’ll have a lesser product. This is the case in any business.
The idea of “spending” should at the very least denote to increase payroll incrementally. Adding patchwork players each off season will do nothing. They’ll still lose upwards of 85 or 90 games
The increase *does* matter. But given these quotes from the GM, it appears that continually pounding the idea that they’re just a couple players away will be the blueprint again
And as such, nothing is going to change here
It doesn’t start with money. In Nutting’s case, as with other owners, it starts with being able to identify and hire a quality GM and quality president. Money helps in that it attracts more interest and can cover up lots of mistakes. More money can also help mediocre GM succeed to a degree. Nutting’s problem is that he has failed in finding quality GM and president. Both of his recent hires (Huntington and Cherington) have had their positive traits, but also have/had serious shortcomings.. Another Nutting trait is that he has shown a certain loyalty and “soft heart”. This can be a positive as in working to keep the Pirates in Pittsburgh (credit where credit is due) or giving someone like Drew Maggi a cup of coffee. It is a negative when he hangs on to employees, e.g. Cherington, long after the employee has shown they don’t have it. Firing people is not easy, I have done it several times in my career, Nutting perhaps doesn’t that ability. Many don’t.
hey. they’re on pace to win 68 games
If they don’t spend spend on free agents and they can’t then spending $ is irrelevant. They had 1 need and the addressed it with Pham. They can’t get Soto so if they spent more $ that’s Profar Conforto Santander. Not only they wouldn’t help they would have made team worse. Also needed 1b. Can’t afford Alonso so you are talking non needle mover Santana. Makes team worse. Better to trade gambler 5th starter Ortiz for Horowitz and save 12 million.
Dude do you ever shut up?
Nope and no loser like you is going to make me
I’m late to Sleptical’s usual, well reasoned post but again I’ll point to the long interview the PG had with Mark Cuban a few years back
Very telling and really, provided the bottom line for all fans to return when look for reasons why
Cuban said that not only is team not for sale, making the queries moot, but from a business perspective, but also that Nutting is making a tremendous profit thanks to the revenue streams in MLB
What more needs to be expounded upon? Who am I going to believe, Cuban or the Nutting apologist who like Punxsutawney Phil pokes hit head out here every so often to tell us that it’s all the fans’ fault and that Nutting is one step from the poor farm
It’s all about the money. And it always is
CORRECTION – Pirates to seek help at every single position except ace starting pitcher this offseason.
Poor Nashville Jeff. Braves so awful he is forced to read pirates next off season articles.
Just reading this to see your takes AI. That and the Braves are off today……….also, misery loves company.
My take is Mike Tauchman has a .814 ops and got paid 1.9m. They should have signed him.
Heh. That was my take on Tauchman in the off season too. Instead they opted for Bryan DeLaCruz, Kelenic, and a steroid cheat. Ugly choices, uglier results. Have to admit that I was ok w/the Profar signing. At least he’s been ok since the suspension ended. Good obp, some power, pretty poor defense though.
I remember. I couldn’t believe no one else wanted him.
Pirates season is great for me. I just watch my boy KG in A ball. Will try to catch the Skenes starts. The Skenes starts are all the Pirates baseball I need. Only ones worth watching.
Will watch Bubba next week when they salary dump Heaney……I mean open a roster spot to give the young future starter a opportunity.
Watching a lot of mil ball as well.
Well you can hit me up anytime. Not too active until after world series and off season starts. I am more interested in prospects and trades than actual MLB stuff. Sucker for the Pirates articles though.
Braves last won WS in 2021.
Seems like Pirates last won WS in 1921.
Cherington literally gave away 3 players for prospects who’ll either never make a difference here or won’t even make it to the bigs
But we can expect another off season of patchwork signings from the bargain bin, guys on their way out of MLB or on their way to play in Asia
With nothing coming from the minors other than pitching and Griffin, who does Cherington think he is fooling? As is, this will be a 90+ loss team for the foreseeable future
What this franchise needs beyond new ownership is a house cleaning of the front office. Get some fiery young people who want to cut their teeth in important roles and see the opportunity to make names for themselves.
Then burn it all down
Save for Skenes, trade anyone who’ll bring back value in terms of prospects, no matter the level. If you’re not gonna compete for years anyway, it’s a no brainer
Get some real development personnel in place and grow from the ground up
The patchwork approach solves nothing. By May each year, the draw here becomes pierogi races, hot dog launches and fireworks nights with an apathetic team serving as simply an afterthought in a beautiful ballpark
I have to hand it to Nutting. If he was trying to kill a fan base’s enthusiasm or intentionally trying to run a franchise into the ground, he couldn’t have done a better job
Interview pieces that come from Cherington —which seem to be increasing—fool no one.
For the record, I didn’t bother reading the article. Straight to the comments & not disappointed.
Is Cherington even going to be fired this year? Letting a gm discuss trades on everyone but Skenes doesn’t seem like you are going to fire the guy. How about trading Bednar for lesser ranked prospects because you are smarter than everyone else. Who would let someone do these things if you are going to fire them in 2 months? Wouldn’t make sense. It’s Bob Nutting though so who knows.
The Pirates don’t deserve Paul Skenes.
The Pirates fans, do, though
“Deserves got nothing to do with it.” — William Munny
Pittsburgh should do the opposite and trade those shortstops for a better infield. Do the reverse Pittsburgh . Trade the prospects for the better players. I’m sure another team can develop those players.
If the Pirates were serious about saving money, they would hire Don Kelly as a player-manager.
Cheringtons philosophy has been to draft pitchers.then more pitchers with small middle infielders mixed in.
Of course they aren’t going to have hitters
The big bonus guys are pitchers by 2-1.
He set the tone with his first draft.Small middle infielder, then all pitchers
The skenes draft. 12 of the first 15 picks were pitchers. Two of the hitters were soon traded, leaving one middle infielder with absolutely no power .
He really has an aversion to outfielders.
So Kevin Newman and Nicky Lopez? Maybe Scott Kingery?
Nick Yorke has put up decent numbers at AAA and wasn’t even mentioned in the article. The Pirates need a 3B that can actually produce and maybe another bat in the OF as well
Here’s a good first step to a better future: Cherington and Nutting both resigning.
“Oneil Cruz was hot earlier in the season but has fallen off considerably since early June.” And since he appeared in the Home Run Derby, he’s fallen off a cliff..
I don’t believe ANYTHING this man says.
Tim Anderson, Amed Rosario, Josh Bell, and Gio Urshela seem like feasible targets for Pittsburgh
Was about to comment “Pirates fans get ready for Amed Rosario, Brendan Rodgers, and Ty France”
I would add Paul DeJong to that list.
I’m still eagerly awaiting the return of the GOAT; Josh VanMeter
Remember when Cherington was the savior of the Red Sox in 2013? By the following summer, the fans were calling for his head. The guy got lucky once and has made a career out of it.
they could always try to convince Josh Van Meter to come out of retirement
Just by keeping this clown around shows they will not attempt to put a winner on the field. You need middle infield help because its all he drafts and never pans out. Combine that with three vets taking at bats away from any “young talent” you might have anywhere, its a disgusting attempt to give anyone who still believe an inkling of hope. The fans are done, and need to realize it will not ever change!
young talent?
Like Triolo who isn’t even batting his weight?
Suwinski who still hasn’t found his home run stroke from 2 years ago?
Alexander Canario who strikes out at an alarming rate?
Cutch leads the team in walks, and has more hits than those 3 combined
Don’t break the bank. Pirate fans might get spoiled.
So…. Trade with the Mets looks plausible.
Keller provides innings on a decent contract for the Mets.
Pittsburgh needs a new owner. All the salary cap callers think that will help LOL. All teams get over $100 mill from mlb yet the Pirates team salary is $83ish mill. Baseball has the most parity of the major sports.
I have no clue what the analytics department even does for this organization. Clearly they aren’t good at their jobs if nothing has changed in years, and the players that they get regress more and more.
BC is at the top, but the entire front office needs to be DFA’d.
There seems to be nothing but an endless loop with all that goes on with this organization. I agree that Cherington just needs to go, period. He has been proven to be clueless and useless, time and time again, as have the coaching and developmental staffs. Have they ever heard the term fundamentals? Instead of trying to hit a homerun and end up striking out, why not shorten up a bit and hit behind the runner with a man on second to move him into scoring position. Teach the hitters to not try to pull everything and hit a pitch where its thrown. If you’re a right-handed hitter and are thrown a pitch on the outer half of the plate then take the ball to right field or right center. Hit it hard somewhere and don’t just ground out to third base trying to always pull it . There are also way too many players striking out too much. Put it in play and at least have a chance of a positive outcome. Start teaching and invest in coaches and staff that can teach. Too many guys swing from their heels with two strikes. Also, teach players to not be so careless on the bases. How many times does this team run themselves out of a potential run scoring inning? The answer is too often. A fundamentally sound team will always hold their own and have a better chance at success than a flawed team with many holes. Cherington and the coaching staff need to be dismissed and replaced because of this. Players really should know more fundamentally than most do when they are promoted to the major leagues. It is a flaw in the coaching coming up.
Pirates should be spending their $ raiding other quality organizations of their best scouts and development people.
They already do this. Been doing it for years . You don’t get the best. Like if you are good your current team is treating you good you want to stay there and it will take a lot of $ to get you to leave. And Pirates have done this. They gave people better job titles and more $ and stole them. But if they were really something special their former team would have matched the offer.
It’s a fantasy Bob Nutting repeat Bob Nutting is going to just get the best baseball people there are and no other team is going to be able to compete with Bob Nuttings offer. And it’s not even Nutting it’s whoever the Pittsburgh owner is. These other owners are making so much $ they can give away half of it so small cities like Pittsburgh can have a team.
These ivy league analytics types or mercenaries but the scouts are loyal. Many of them fans of the team. So if they are truly good they aren’t going anywhere. The teams that are good not only can evaluate baseball players but their other employees as well.
Pirates done this already though. Some woman who did something in Houston is now Pirates assistant gm. Took one of Tampas pitching coordinators. Old guy Strom or whoever at assistant pitching coach being paid almost as much as head pitching coaches.
AI GM- Good info. I’m actually a former Rockies Midwest League pro scout. I understand the culture issues in orgs. Rockies had an amazing scouting unit from their beginning until thry scared them off. A lot of core that built the Montreal teams moved over there. The many went on to Atlanta and helped with this last competitive drive.
I said to someone above to the “they need to steal good people from other teams” and it’s like wow great idea genius. Wonder why the other 29 teams didn’t think of this!!!! Everyone does this. It’s not easy. You end up getting employees their original team didn’t value enough to match the offer. If you get enough you might hit on one. Or in Pirates case their B team is better than your A team.
AI GM – If you’re speaking about me. Ill respectfully say that I’ve probably been involved in more scouting and trade deadline decisions than even your wettest of dreams.
I never claimed it was easy. I just didnt care to fully create a longer comment than necessary. And you’re very wrong if you actually should feel that 30 teams on baseball think this way.
Even on a personal level I saw Colorado burn their relatively successful scouting dept (given developing pitching at elevation)..to the ground. And then see many of those former Expos people move on to Atlanta and reunite with Anthoulopus.
Don’t remember who I was addressing or if anyone. I’m not wrong about anything I said so you are either wrong or misread me.
You disrespected me in another comment to someone else. You responded to me originally respectfully….then spoke about me im response to someone else like I can’t read the comments. I don’t really care. But Im also here to have decent respectful conversations with others. It’s your decision how you choose to interact. From reading your comments you come off like a know it all. And I’ll guess you’ve never done anything. Using the Moneyball film as any kind of analytical reference is funny. Or even building your MO against it. I just enjoy talking about baseball like anyone else. I have no idea who you are. But bare in mind that actual baseball professionals, or past professionals are here as well. Your ideas and thoughts can be as valid as anyone else’s…but your tone is a little abrasive. I just wont engage that. That’s all. I value my interactions.
You are a liar. “Using the Moneyball film as any kind of analytical reference is funny.” I done no such thing.
Dock, please keep your insights and comments coming. Much appreciated
And AI doesn’t need a defense as much of what you’ve said is accurate. But it’s his writing style, that’s all. Sarcastic. Acerbic. And I’ve had numerous go-rounds with him, but he’s a good guy
As a Harvard Kennedy School pro scout he should know that when you say something like that on the internet a extremely high percentage of people are going to think you are full of it. For the gullible ones it comes off as bragging. So their is lil to nothing good to come from it.
Me personally I don’t care enough to put any thought into. Other than I would think someone with that education would know what tbe result of typing that would be. You said I was wrong about something and I didn’t see anything I was wrong about. So Rockies either did something that no team I am aware of does or you are a liar. And since you said I did this “Using the Moneyball film as any kind of analytical reference is funny.” and I didn’t you are a liar.
I dunno about good guy (appreciate it though). I’m alright in real life. On here I like playing the heel. Especially when someone gets snarky or says I did something I never did. But I been long time friends with gwynning Nashville Jeff Don Osborne so hard to put on my performance with them. And pirates faithful Mendoza Tired Paul are generally nice although they have some breakdowns now and then but hard to mess with them. 2 at least. Paul is that 1 fan every team has lol. Hard to resist with him sometimes.
Maybe you are pro scout Harvard whatever. I don’t have a opinion on it. Just you will never find me personally ever talking about my education or how much I make or anything. Nothing positive can come from it. I’m either lying or bragging is what most people will think.
Like one guy on here is always telling us about all these Mexican vacations he’s going on and all these hot young waiters he’s making love to. I believe the guy but no need to brag about it.
You’re an easy mute. I didnt owe you the time. Theres a LOT of comments, and if I skimmed and misquoted you or it wasn’t you on Moneyball…my bad. But I actually do enjoy mature baseball discussions, snd I enjoy learning as well. Im not into snipy ego driven interactions. Simply stating whatever credentials I have isnt to put anyone in their place…because and intelligence person realizes good information comes from all kinds of sources. But you do seem to state things like theyre facts. And you come off like you have some kind of superior knowledge in your style…and it just seems like you want to appear like you have superior knowledge to people who may be more casual or simply more mature in their interactions. Im not here for brownie points or to make myself feel better. Ive done work that Im proud of. I dont need the pat on the back confirmations. I actually do care about interactions…which is much more than you’d get out of some people who’d just respond in anger or walk away. I don’t even know you. You could be a high school kid for all I know. And I wouldnt hold a high school kid accountable for the same maturity as an older person. I also am not a child, and find the immature interactions draining. That’s all. If you choose to interact with me or want to. Just leave the “some genius in the comments above” at the door. That’s all. Because you didn’t have that tact in the original comment. What happened is you essentially called me out to someone else. Grow a set. I could respect that. This has been another 5 minutes of my time. I offer my thoughts and if im wrong im wrong. I love to learn. But your facts are opinions….I know this whether others do or not. Im going to say this and im done. The Pirates have NOT been raiding other teams of their best talents. And YOU are not qualified to even assess that. YOU probably read things you consider deep inside knowledge and believe yourself to be more knowledgeable than the casual. You be you
My even need to mention it was only to explain why I found you ridiculous. I dont care whether you believe me or not. And Im not always right even given my own baseball background. I just like mature interactions is all. I was basically asking uou to drop the bs snark or im just not going to have baseball discussions. I could care less about if thats your style or not
“The Pirates have NOT been raiding other teams of their best talents. ”
Apparently Harvard doesn’t teach people to read.
Like duh that’s what everyone is saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“And YOU are not qualified to even assess that. YOU probably read things you consider deep inside knowledge and believe yourself to be more knowledgeable than the casual.”
Very mature right there sir.
They teach you to make wild assumptions on people at Harvard instead of reading?
I think you are on the minority on that one. Even my biggest hatters who can’t stand me can’t question my baseball knowledge. You wouldn’t either if you knew how to read. You just keep reading things that I never typed lol.
I could care less go ahead and mute me. It’s difficult to have a discussion with someone who can’t read. Multiple times in a singe conversation you have said I said things I have never said lol. I’m a give someone the benefit of doubt no person but after seeing your reading comprehension ability I must say I have doubts.
It’s funny though. I understand what you are saying completely but multiple times you have me saying things I never said. I’ve never even thought these things. I should be the one saying I am not going to talk to you anymore!!!!! But I’m a nice person. I’m hoping one day you learn to read and we can talk some ball.
Mexican waiters, Sparky? Seriously?
After reading this, let me speak for the crickets when I ask, “Who cares?”
Dock- Good point.
First you have to fire Cherington.
Then spend money poaching front office and scouting and development personnel.
Keep the best ones that you have.
The entire organization needed to be changed over one or two years ago.
If you don’t have the money for free agents get the near best management personnel.
The best ones will always go to the wealthiest organizations with the best chance to compete.
See above. Already poached. Been doing it for years.
They then need to do more of it if these poachees have been good employees.
There is enough weaknesses in this organization that it needs an overhaul.
It’s actually easier said than done. Baseball people are loyal. My real point is THAT is where you spend $$$ before going out and getting an avg bat to try to be 500.
Everyone thinks this is a new idea and that the other 29 teams haven’t thought of it.
Just watch moneyball. Red Sox made Beane a offer he couldn’t refuse.
You can steal a ivy league so called analytics expert pretty easily. A scout though not so much. Many don’t want promoted. They would rather watch baseball games than work in office. They are actually fans of the team. If team wins world series they feel like the one. They found those players that won. And there is a gentleman agreement understanding with owners. If some start massively over paying then it increases employee spending for everyone. #1 goal of owners is to make as much $ as possible.
I’m both Ivy League grad school educated and a former regular old scout.
Impressive. Not many ivy league grad school scouts.
AI GM. I wasnt Harvard Kennedy School educated while I was a scout. I have more to my life than baseball. I was from the Oklahoma State Baseball program originally. The Harvard grad work had to do with my career as a Govt consultant.
Just a heads up..you have active players and atleast former personel here on mlbtraderumors. They probably wont react to you at all. Its just not worth the time
I know many of them and they talk with me all the time. Now I am bragging but am I? I mean you can them interacting with me all the time. It’s not a secret. Some of them are in same private chat room groups with me. I appreciate the flattering but I am not the baseball genius I am by myself lol. There’s a lot of freaking baseball games played everywhere. Even AI can’t be everywhere. As the song goes I get a little help from my friends. Only ones missing out on my wonderful conversations are you and bright eyes. Maybe you two can lie and brag how great of baseball experts you are yet never once shown that you are.
It’s fine that you muted me. I’m mature so I won’t mute you and will keep talking to you. I actually prefer this.
Some serious advice though. Go try Yale Brown Princeton and maybe they can teach you to read. We probably could have been friends if only you could read. Just a lil bit. I can bare minimum read. Obviously can’t write. So not asking much from you to save our possible friendship.
I like this Harvard guy though. Funny guy. Entertains me greatly. I been on mltr forever. Know everyone here. And mr Harvard is giving me heads up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hilarious.
I can be a bit much sometimes. But a pro scout and Harvard graduate school! Wow! That is impressive. I had to inquire more. And I wasn’t disappointed.
But for those who put up with me I am greatly appreciative. I may not show it but I genuinely like you guys or at least tolerate you back.
The title should have been “Pirates Expected to Pursue help at every field position next year” if Cherington knew what he was doing.
Cherington said recently that he wants the youngsters to get more playing time so he can determine whether they should be brought back next year
Suwinski shouldn’t be one of those players
It’s either drawing a walk or striking out looking
His error on a single that allowed the runner to reach second scored on a single
And he struck out looking with 2 men in scoring position
The youngsters that he is talking about are quickly becoming old men.
His poor development system is the culprit.
Paul you might be the last person listening to anything Cherington says. Well you and Nutting apparently.
This though I believe 100 percent.
Andrew Heaney is about to get 150k bonus for every 10 innings he pitches so like 130 140 150 160 170. My super duper advanced analytics predict that Heaney will be dfa before month is over maybe before week is over so some young players can get a opportunity!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mendoza Tired I know your not into analytics but do your eyeballs test see those 150k bonuses coming up and bye bye Heaney? It won’t be a salary dump though!!!!!!!!! Pham IKF have bonus to I believe but nothing like Heaney.
Like if Heaney pitches the rest of the year it will be the most shocking moment in sports history.
Not a salary dump though. We are just really really concerned about getting Bubba his opportunity even though we weren’t concerned in April May June July!!!!!! It’s pure coincidence that we became concerned about Bubba just at the same time Heaney bonuses became due!!!!!!!!!!
I say keep Heaney though. Scott says if Payroll goes up attendance will go up and Nutting will have all this $ to spend and get these great free agents!!!!!
All you guys have to do is give Nutting your hard earned $ to watch Heaney throw hr derby batting practice and Bob will invest it back into the team.
There are growing cries in media now to fire Cherington. A number of people calling for the Pirates to then burn it all down and start again
Nice. I’ve been saying this since spring training
It’s the only hope moving forward
But somehow, I think Cherington will be here and the patchwork signing approach will be the norm this offseason
They been calling for Cherington for years. Real strong after last season. Nutting doesn’t care what media says. Or fans.
As NUTS as it sounds….and as BAD of a hit as youre giving that fanbase….Im not sure i dont unload Skenes if a franchise altering haul is possible. As great as he is. He wouldn’t be as valuable as the multiple player impact he could bring back. BUT..you have to have the people in place to really run an org. Pittsburgh fans want to win. And they’ll be good if that occurs in a kind of sustainable way. What a poorly ran org…any org has to shake a leg for their fans. Pittsburgh is an absolute sleeping giant. Great baseball fans and a great park. They deserve to win
Agree 100%. And like you, I hate to say this
My only problem is wondering if Cherington and staff are capable of determining the value of prospects coming back
Nothing he or they have done say they are
In any other franchise, the entire front office is gone after this train wreck of a tenure. New, hungry young people come in, bring their own scouts and development staff. Then burn it all down
As for Skenes, his value will never be greater
As Branch Rickey once told HR champ Ralph Kiner, “We can finish in last with you. We can finish in last without you”
Perhaps the best pitcher in MLB, and a guy who’ll never be part of a winner here
But as said, my prediction is they do nothing and add patchwork.
I’m for trading Skenes. There is nothing else expect him to build around. Reynolds would need to recover. Cruz would suddenly have to make a big leap forward. Bubba would have to be a #2. KG would need to fly through and dominate AA. KG is big one along with Bubba. Cruz is what he s likely. Reynolds even at his best is just a guy.
Not hitting on Gonzales TJ and completely missing on Davis killed this rebuild. All needed to be 700 ops players or one needed to be 800 ops. These are just guys and one needed to be the guy.
1990 91 92 2013 14 15
What did all those playoff teams have in common? 1 big bat Cutch Bonds. 4 starters with below 4 era. Many winning teams have this or 2 good bats instead of 1 great. And if you have a Bonilla to go with Bonds you win division.
And VanSlyke. Maybe my favorite player here of all time
That the Pirates didn’t win it all during that era is somewhat amazing. Everyone remembers Bream’s slide and Bonds’s throw, but they forget Lind allowing a routine grounder to go through his legs that set the table
Most entertaining team of my fan lifetime.
As for trading Skenes, it’s a no brainer, which is why it’ll never happen. Not with this owner and GM. They’re convinced that they can plug in a couple guys on their way to playing in Asia and all will be fine. But this is the worst lineup I’ve seen here in many moons. If I’m an opposing pitcher, I’m happy my start lands on a day my team is facing them. It’s so anemic that it’s almost unbelievable.
Cruz may bring back a couple good prospects. But scouts know he’s a head case. Reynolds? Maybe two years ago. Keller? Sure a couple decent prospects.
But beyond these guys, just who would anyone want?
Patchwork won’t do it. But you know, neither will trades, really. Not before ‘30
I said late last season they were in a real predicament as none of their farm stars were panning out. I predicted 70 wins. But it’s even worse than that
No cavalry coming over the hill. No magic wand
This is gonna be a long haul
Yeah Andy was good. So was Russell Martin. Pedro hit hrs. Jones as well. Kang. Mercer underrated. Walker had a good year or 2. 2025 pirates have nothing.
What do you think Skenes should fetch? Teams wouldn’t give even 1 top 50 for Keller. Not talking top 5 or 10. So Skenes can’t be traded likely. No one is willing to pay for him most likely. And anyone willing to doesn’t have the player’s to get it done.
You’re talking two different eras here. Bonds, Bonilla, Slyke, Drabek. Loved those days
Yeah, the first Cutch-Walker run was fun, too
As for Skenes, you’d know better than me, Dream. I just don’t know how anyone here is untouchable. Keller seems to lose value with every start. It’s August, after all.
2 years of Crochet brought back 2 top 50 prospects. So 4 years of Skenes starts at 4. But Skenes is better. Better track record. Safer bet. A star. A super star. Social media mark ability thanks to his gf. Will have 2 in row top cy young finishes if not win this year.
Are you willing to accept a TJ Gonzales Endy Davis return? You could get someone to pay that for Skenes.
I’d want a KG level prospect and then another 2 top 100. I think he is worth that. Would I pay that to get him? I don’t think at least wouldn’t enjoy it. Substitute KG for Bubba, a pitcher for pitcher absolutely. But fans want a bat. Team wants a bat. Point of trading Skenes is to get a bat. AJ preller would do it but he doesn’t have the prospects. And why do it when you could get Joe Ryan for much less. Or Mitch Keller.
I think the biggest problem I have—and you may disagree with—is that I have little faith in the GM’s ability to determine value. He has this history of trading guys and getting little in return. I mean,look at his track record and then look at the farm system
As a fan, one could take solace in the idea that they’re a bad team but look at what’s coming up. I don’t remember ever saying that other than pitchers and KG, there’s nothing to base optimism from here. No cavalry coming to save the day
So the idea of trading anyone of value is proper and all, but with the current front office, not so much
And again, I just don’t see any changes coming in terms of “leadership” here.
But hey, Suwinski homered last night to win the game! Let’s keep hope alive!
They problem most fans have is they look at the trade return in present day value instead of when it was made. Another issue is they over value their own players. Cherington at worst has made so so meh lackluster trades but most have been fairly goid and nice portion clear wins. The day they were made.
There’s a few hitters in system now. International signed hitters. Two no doubt SS with a chance to hit like a real chance.
They need more offense. they barely have any.
I don’t care if they get it from the bat boy.. they just need it.
Actually I am one of the three people still reading these even more voluminous posts than mine.
One thing that I will say about Rowdy is that he was classy enough to not complain about not getting a bonus because he said that he did not deserve one.
The same thing would apply to Heaney since he has not pitched really well since April.
Falter had two bad starts so the Royals have pulled the plug and put him in the bullpen.Cherington could have sweetened a deal for Heaney by giving up a young player that the Pirates will not be able to develop so he could keep Falter.
You’re another one who puts words in my mouth.I have dealt with statistics since you were a toddler.
They are a tool,not an end all that can predict anything with surety.
No you are just too serious and have lil ability to detect humor sarcasm. Better than Paul though who doesn’t even have a fraction of a fraction.
You are the only person to ever call me too serious.
Your sarcasm sometimes is not evident.That is the problem with sarcasm.One must make it evident.But then it can be too much.
I generally get it and do not overreact.
None of us oldsters know enough about the plethora of current baseball statistics to be conversant.There are too many pluses on some of them and Joe thinks one is better than another one.
The tried and true ones are what we like-simple.They generally tell the story fairly well.
Some of the new ones seem to be less accurate than others,especially regarding fielding.
And too many youngsters put too much faith in them in predicting the future performance to a high degree of probability.
Well I use a lot of !!!!!!!!! Joke was that I was using some amazing analytics to predict Heaney dfa because of the bonuses.
Analytics is just what idiots who think they know something others don’t say they use. I am not impressed with a single teams analytics. They should scrap their entire department and save $. Pirates definitely should. That giddy up giddy up 409 was pathetic. Same thing happened with Ortiz Holmes.
Hey, no fair bringing Bright Eyes into this
Voluminous. I like that.
Not sure where this post is supposed to fit, Mendoza but I agree wholeheartedly about statistics
I got the looks in the family but not the brains.
It was to AI in his second post above your last one.
I hate it when posters have to interpret my posts.
I thought that I had inserted it correctly but maybe not.
And mine can get voluminous too.
And I cannot see how Nutting cannot fire Cherington.
There are a lot of things that don’t make sense. The moves have been so incredibly poor, and in succession, that if you were a conspiracy theorist you’d think it’s all intentional
I have come to believe that Nutting is going to stay whatever this course is. He allowed Cherington to draft and make trades even though the season was over in May
Same cast and more patchwork in the off season
Thanks. Your points make more sense to me now
Nutting also said that he would not change horses in mid stream and I think that that is wise.
He does not really have any overlap as they do not have someone groomed for an older GM’s retirement like the Cardinals have.
As the owner he has to see the overall picture and even he knows that it is not good.
After six years.
Cherington has done at least decently with the draft and Nutting approved the salary dump trades.He probably had no adverse reaction to them from Cherington.
In all honesty though this will be the last year for Cutch.
That would be only one of the major changes.
Kevan Graves has been in baseball operations with the Pirates for 17 years. Not only is he one of Cherington assistant gms he was Huntington assistant gm as well. If he can’t handle running the team by now then why the heck is he still here? Nutting liked him so much he made Cherington keep him.
If he was any good he should have been running the team two years ago.
They have to watch being the Rockies and being inbred.
There shouldn’t be a comma before “obviously.”