As part of his new seven year, $120MM contract, Matt Holliday will be collecting paychecks from the Cardinals through 2029 according to the AP (via SI.com). As you know, the contract calls for a $17MM annual salary through 2016 with an option for 2017, however $2MM is deferred without interest each season. Depending on whether or not the option is picked up/vests, Holliday will be paid either $1.4MM or $1.6MM on July 15th every year from 2020 to 2029.
Just for some perspective, Holliday will be 49-years-old on July 15th, 2029.
Talk about a retirement strategy.
does arod contract have anything like that,, cuz i know that the rangers are still paying him??
Talk about a retirement strategy.
Why? Is there any sense to this?
In any business you always pay as little as possible now since money will not be worth as much in the future also you push it out incase you sell the business or in this case the team which would then become someone else’s debt. This is a basic strategy in any business and I myself do it w/ my business.
I’m no math whiz, but if the Cards put the deferred portion in a 4% interest account now (14 million or 16 million), by the time they pay out the money will have paid for itself and they’ll be able to keep the 14 million initial principle. In a sense, it is a way to pay a player without having to spend the money. And Holiday gets money the Cardinals couldn’t otherwise afford to pay him.
Actually this only works if inflation is less than 4% (which it rarely if ever is). While yes, technically the team would have more dollars, the 2029 dollars are going to be worth less than 2010 dollars. So they’d actually be losing value if they just kept the money in 4% interest account.
But you are not taking into account the effects of compound interest. The money will easily more than double over time with compound interest and it is highly unlikely that money will be worth half of what it is worth today in 2029. It will most likely be around a 75% inflation rate by that time and that is only at the peak of the deal so it will definitely turn out to save the Cardinals millions and not to mention the cash flow it frees up to make profit from in other avenues of their business.
But wouldn’t inflation compound too? Something today costs $100. Inflation rate is 3%. So next it costs $103. The year after that it $106.09 instead of $106. I might be looking at that incorrectly…I’m not an economist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Exactly. If it were really that easy to make money (or even keep money) over the long term, a lot more firms in general would do this, rather than make riskier investments. Also I’m sure the Cardinals need that money to a certain extend now. Afterall, they’re a baseball team, not an investment firm. And it seems I should’ve saved myself $40,000 and just went to a Holliday Inn Express rather than college…
It is easy, unless, like you said, they need that deferred total in the mean time. Which may be the case. 4% interest isn’t investment firm territory, that is a conservative return for a high investment principle. It is only a problem if inflation is working against you. But the contract isn’t for 2010 2 million dollars value, it is for 2 million dollars. inflation works against Holiday (assuming inflation continues to happen) not the Cardinals.
Right, but if they had that money to just stick in an account now, I don’t think we’d be hearing stories about how StL is nearing their payroll limit. That said, there’s better investments now for $16mil than an account that one would freely admit loses value over time. In a healthy economy, inflation is about 5.5%. Right now it’s even higher than that, so I don’t think anyone would actually recommend this as a good financial move by anyone long-term, whether you’re a baseball team with $16mil or a retiree with $50k
Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I’m sure there are plenty of better investments of 14 million than a 4% account. My point was simply that the Cardinals, even with a conservative investment, are the clear winners with deferred payments (obviously Holiday wins too, though not as much as if he had that money sooner. But he wouldn’t of had it sooner, it was either later or nothing – so both win).
And I think The Cardinals probably do a lot of money managing like that. I’m sure they aren’t operating with an – all profits go to owners and payroll strategy. I remember something like this kind of strategy with their contract insurance investments. I’d wager that they have reserves budgeted so that they can make the most of their yearly payroll.
In any business you always pay as little as possible now since money will not be worth as much in the future also you push it out incase you sell the business or in this case the team which would then become someone else’s debt. This is a basic strategy in any business and I myself do it w/ my business.
Why? Is there any sense to this?
thats insane!! i’ve never heard of such a thing. has anyone else?
The Mets are paying Bobby Bonilla almost $2M a year through 2035.
Ha!
WOWOWOW!!!
Steve Young is being payed by the USFL until 2027
It’s a hair under $1.2M, not almost $2M, but yeah- the godforsaken Mets have to give Bobby Bonilla a million bucks every July.
Good god.
u can thank the great steve phillips or the wilpons for that move…
The Mets are paying Bobby Bonilla almost $2M a year through 2035.
It’s far from insane. It’s very typical. Players get portions of the salaries deferred all the time.
i knew that teams deferred salaries, just not like that. and bobby bonilla, whoa!
yeah. albert pujols
Every team does this as others have responded. This is actually a lesser extreme than other cases. As of this past season Al Hrbosky (it was brought up during a game) was still drawing deferred checks from the Atlanta Braves and he was a player of there’s in the early 80’s. It helps the player keep a salary well after retirement.
thats insane!! i’ve never heard of such a thing. has anyone else?
Beats any other retirement plan out there
A ballplayer’s social security…
Beats any other retirement plan out there
Holy Bejeebus. O_O
Holy Bejeebus. O_O
Um… Pujol’s contract has X amount deferred and So did Rolen’s 90 million
Um… Pujol’s contract has X amount deferred and So did Rolen’s 90 million
hoping money will be worth less in the future.
Very very smart move by both Holliday and the Cardinals
Very very smart move by both Holliday and the Cardinals
Geez, Boras is a genius.
How is Boras a genius? The deferred salary is a benefit to the Cards. Not to Holliday. Holliday would be better served by having all the money now…
No he wouldn’t. He has an income upto 50 that will not be taken away from him no matter what. A large income would suffer a lot more in the present financial climate than a deferred one.
What?
OK — he’s getting the same amount of money either way. I’m not clear why it matters whether he has an “income up to 50 that will not be taken away.” He gets $120M; whether he gets it in 7 years, 10 years, or 50 years, he gets the same amount. If he gets it now, he can invest it AND MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY. If he gets it later, he doesn’t get to do that… he just gets the money. Labor is not the only thing that can generate income. Money, itself, can generate income.
Also, what exactly does “a large income would suffer a lot more in the present financial climate than a deferred one” mean? First of all, a deferred salary, by definition, doesn’t suffer in the present financial climate. It’s deferred. Also, who the hell knows what will happen in the future. This may turn out to be a f*cking golden age if we get hit with massive inflation; or, the economic climate may turn rosy. Nobody really knows. If you know, you should be investing like a madman.
In any event, the idea that you don’t want to make money now because of “the present financial climate” makes no sense. If I offered to pay you $100,000 now, or $50,000 now, and $10,000 for each of the five subsequent years, you’d be crazy to take option B.
take a look at tax brackets
1. You’re assuming our tax rates will be the same 20, 30, 40 years from now. Our taxes may be much higher in the future (to pay off the national debt; to pay for universal health coverage; to pay for a global warming emergency fund…). Tax rates aren’t set in stone. Based on history, the top marginal income tax bracket (the rate on all taxable income above ~$375k) is low right now (35%; from 1932 to 1986, it was above 50%; even in the 1990’s, it was at 39.6%). Maybe it’s better to make the big bucks now than it is in 2045.
2. When you earn multiple millions of dollars every year, MOST of your income is taxed in the highest tax bracket. Yes, if Matt Holliday makes $15M this year, and $2M next year, about $375k of the income of he earns in each year will be taxed at slightly lower rates (about 25-30%); whereas, if he makes $17M this year, only $375k will be taxed at the lower rates. But, even in the first instance, over $16M of the $17M he makes, combined, will be taxed at the highest rate. The amount he’ll save will be minimal. My guess is, you could exceed those future “savings” (you’d earn by avoiding the high taxes on $375k each year) by investing the extra millions you’d make right now.
BUT I DIGRESS… THIS IS MLBTRADERUMORS.COM, RIGHT. NOT MATTHOLLIDAYSTAXRETURN.COM.
…not to mention paying off this multi-trillion dollar pair of wars we been fighting !
its a good thing that we just started (in 2009 ) counting the money we put towards the war against our national debt lol
You’re assuming he would get the same amount of money either way. The deferment is a win for the Cardinals for roughly the same reasons you give for Holliday preferring the money now. It’s not unfathomable–in fact, quite likely in my mind–that Holliday’s agreeing to defer money (granting the Cardinals a win) ultimately landed him more money.
A shallow examination would guess that the deferred amount is what was basically extra from what the Cardinals felt they could afford (so, an extra $2MM/year for 7 years), but of course we’ll never really know for sure. The one case that we should all be able to agree is least likely is that he’s getting the same money he would have if they deferred nothing.
Your high bro, 100 grand and 120 million are not even comparable. Besides after 6 years of living the high roller life pulling in 17 mill a year don’t you think it would be nice to have something guaranteed for a long time so you can settle down. You could lose everything if you invested everything.
A dollar today is significantly more valuable than a dollar tomorrow.
Absolutely. Sure it’s cool for Holliday, but it’s even cooler for the Cards. That’s an extra $1.4-$1.6M every year spend on something else.
If he ever runs into problems he could always give these guys a call…youtube.com/watch?v=xrVgHkQuFg4
Geez, Boras is a genius.
Like if he didnt need anymore money…
he isnt getting a penny more then the 120million..its just being payed over a greater period of time.
Like if he didnt need anymore money…
Keeps payroll down for this and subsequent years. More money available to plug holes.
Significantly, more available to offer Pujols next year.
Keeps payroll down for this and subsequent years. More money available to plug holes.
Sounds like a lot of money for a good player. I can only imagine what Pujols will get from the Cards. Maybe part ownership?
Pujols has the same thing with his contract. Starting in 2007 (I think) he’s had 3 million a year deferred to be distributed in 10 payments (1 per year) starting in 2020 and going through 2029. So Pujols and Holliday are deferring money to be paid out during the same time period, so that’s about 3 mil (total) for the two of them that the Cards will be paying through the 20s. I’m sure the next contract Pujols has will include the same type of deferrance, maybe this time for the 2030s?
The Cardinals have been known to do this. If I am not mistaking they were paying McGuire years after he retired as well.
yeah this makes a lot of sense because as we all know, 120 million dollars is just nothing. nothing at all.
it doesn’t even come close to being a good retirement plan. a good retirement plan would be getting the entire contract value today then investing the vast majority of it into safe long-term investments to be cashed in upon retirement. it’ll be nice for him to get the residual income but its certainly not a smart “retirement plan.”
The sense to this from each side is as follows…
Cardinals: If they’re pushing the money out into the future, it has a lower “present value” for them. The theory behind this is that they could easily invest their current savings in order to grow it before it must be paid to Holliday…for example, a 1.5 million dollar investment today may grow 33 percent over the next ten years and be equivalent to the $2 million owed to him on July 15, 2020.
Holliday: Plain and Simple, the money wasn’t there for him anywhere else. At the end of the day he got the security he was looking for in a place to play for the foreseeable future as well as quite a bit of cash.
If Holliday had the choice he would have taken the money now instead of later.
These deferred payments obviously devalue the 120 million dollar contract (inflation being a large part) but it raises the question:
Could the Cards have limited the number of years and given him a contract without deferred payments? Heck, given the lack of competition for his high priced services it seems that the Cards could have limited the years and still force him to accept a deferred form of payment on a portion of that contract.
Agreed 100%. I thought all along that the Cardinals could’ve had him with a 5/90 deal. And if he was willing to do ridiculous things like this with the contract’s payments then it shouldn’t have been a problem at all. The teams that were waiting in the wings on Holliday didn’t seem to be contenders to me so the Cardinals had a massive advantage there. All-in-all I’d say that, in true boras style, the Cardinals gave Holliday a very egregious contract.
The Giants are still paying Barry Bonds
what a waste of money
thats a nice pension
It is a nice pension (albeit, a pension that expires before most of us retire).
Pensions are nice.
I see some team is hoping the world ends in 2012 after all.
I think people are really misunderstanding this. He’s not making $17 per for 7 years AND an additional $2 mil thru 2022- 2029. He’s making $15 mil per for 7 years and the balance split into increments of $2 mil. Same deal as before, just spread out differently as far as the Cards are concerned. Saves them a little cash now. Very creative if you ask me. What’s the real value of $2 mil in 12 years from now?
Some one explain this to me im kind of confused??
He’s getting $120M from the Cards… but he’s not getting $17M every year. It will appear that way as a way to determine team salary, but some of the money Holliday is owed he’ll get in intervals.
I think thats stupid. But Holliday must be happy though. 🙂 Hopefully when I get older and play baseball (hopefully) i’ll get a contract like that.
ADJPB – google “time value of money”
it means his contract is backloaded cause they couldnt afford to sign him if they didnt backload like marlon byrds contract is backloaded cubs payng him alot of money in 2nd and 3rd year.so cause this year they can only afford 3 mil for this year instead of the 5 mil byrd is annually awarded
Looks like Boras got a lot for not a lot again. Say what you will about the guy, but he knows how to make the illusion of Great ballplayer. No way should Holliday be getting that kind of payday, and the Cardinals will be regretting that one for many years to come.
Wow, interesting contract
15 / 15 / 15 / 15 / 15 / 15 / 15 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4 / 1.4
Does make it easier to fit Pujols into the picture. If they do something similar with him, they could maybe get away with paying the two only 35 or so a season from 2012 to 2016 after a 31 combined the next two years.
Meanwhile the Cubs pay Soriano and Zambrano 36 per at least the next 3 seasons 🙁
Well it certainly doesn’t hurt. And I don’t see them as a team that has to worry about the luxury tax. But I’m still gonna say it. In a couple of years they’ll have to pay Holliday $15M a year, Pujols probably at least $28, and Wainright possibly $18M. So over $60M on three players on a team with possibly only a $90M-$100M payroll. I just don’t see it working.
hard to tell really. 23-24 would make Pujols the highest AAV multi-year contract ever outside the nutzo money given to ARod. That plus the ability to stay in StLouis might be enough for him. And if they backload his deal (heavy to 2017-2019 after Holliday is off the books) plus defer some in this way, they might get away with paying Albert only 20-22 a year during the Holliday years.
I personally think the Cards should have heavily front-loaded Holliday and backloaded Pujols so the two had drastically different peak salary seasons. If they did that plus deferred money to Matt they might have gotten off pretty cheap on the year to year amounts. But who knows what they have planned themselves.
The real question is what happens when it’s time for FA… If Pujols hits it then you can garuentee the yanks, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, ChiSox, and any team with a decent sized payroll will sign a blank check. I really do believe Pujols wants to stay… but I still think Arod money for him might be the discounted price.
I dont think he will hit free agency though – I imagine the Cards work towards getting a deal done fairly quickly now that Holliday is locked in.
If he hits free agency though? Well, not sure he will even get ARod money then. The first ARod contract being what got him the second, it is the one really in question. And a couple things need to be remembered when thinking about that first deal
1) he was a GG caliper SS, which is extreme value with his bat
2) the market was on a huge upward swing instead of the downward spiral of today
3) Tom Hicks was desperate and had empty pockets (or so he thought)
4) Alex was only going on 25! The cash was paying him for his peak physical seasons. Pujols will be 32 by the time his contract is up if he hits FA.
The second ARod deal with the Yankees was just re-upping what he already had really, and if he wasn’t making that much before it would have been lower. Plus there were no clubs willing/able to really compete with the cash at the time – had the Yankees stuck by there ‘no more negotiating’ stance, he would have ended up with a lot less money elseware.
And honestly, I am not sure how many teams are/would be able/willing to pay a 32 year old 1B 28-30 million per. Most teams don’t have a budget that can house that, and of the few that do many of them are learning that spreading money around is better then throwing all your eggs into one basket. Its hard to tell if there will be a GM both willing and able to give out a deal like that to a 32 YO First Baseman. Probably depends on how badly the poor GMs spend their money leading up to that date.
you make a lot of sense their
Note: he would be 31 not 32. not that it makes a huge difference.
he actually has 2010 (age 30) and a club option on 2011 (age 31) still in St.Louis, so that 2012 year would be his age 32 season (he would be turning 32 in Jan 2012) unless I am having a brain-fart 🙂
The contract isn’t back loaded, it’s simply partially defered.
Yeah, no big deal here. Deferred contracts are what a lot of teams do nowadays.
Not sure why this is even news worthy?
Is this a way to keep yearly payroll down or does the deferred money count into each year’s payroll?
I’m guessing the only money that counts is what is being paid out that calendar year. So next year only $15 mil counts towards the payroll.
Does this mean in say 2018 they will have 2 mill on the books for Holliday even if he’s not playing for the ballclub?
Suzysman: Nice avitar (or whatever it’s called). Even though we don’t agree on much, Happy New Years dude.
yeah, happy New Year man.
Also thanks, whipped up the little Icon myself. Figured I wanted one that said all that really needs to be said 🙂
suzysman since ur on this site 24/7 u should just become a moderator
u should contact tim and fill out app
I wish I could. Might not seem like it in the threads, but my time here is actually really hit and miss between me acting like I am actually doing work, lol Being able to keep up/converse on baseball anytime I get the opportunity is the benefit of a modern age 🙂
I wounder. If Holliday is getting a contract like this, what would Pujols get?!?!
If this were the Yankees, people would be crying bloody murder.
merely because it would be the 5th highest AAV player on their team instead of the #1 highest AAV on the Cards.
And really, isnt that kind of sad? People are talking about the Cards having a hard time with a 17/per contract that will be the highest on their club while the Yankees have 4 players with a higher AAV plus another 3 players with an AVV within 4MM of the 17.
Because on the yanks they have 4 players they signed to larger contracts. The Cards just signed their record breaking contract. At least until Pujols resigns. It’s context.
I remember such a thing happening on our team with Ichiro’s last contract he signed
The present value of 17 million over 7 years at 5% interest is 103.2 million. With the deferred portion, the present value is 98.1 million, a savings of 5.1 million. At 6%, the savings is 5.8%
The Frank McCourt led Dodgers do this a lot.. but very soon it will destroy our payroll flexibility
pretty sure this means that wainwright wont be extended after 2011 possibly 2013 if his options are exercised
Just don’t pick up the 7th year, if your the Cardinals. Holliday will be 37 by that time, why obligate your payroll until 2029.
I think you mean 8th year and even so they don’t have the choice to pick it up or not. The option only vests if Holliday finishes in the top 10 in MVP voting in 2016 his 7th year of the contract.
I really like that the Cards did that I think I would’ve like it more if it was a 6 yr w/ that option for the 7th but the way the option can be picked up I’m suprised they were allowed to do that. I thought they could only have vesting options for PA”s games finished etc. I thought performance options weren’t able to be done but I guess since it’s not a specific stat they can pull it off and I think it’s a very smart way especially for the age he will be at during that time where if he’s still performing at 36 great we’ll have you for another year rather than if he just steps to the plate ala Magglio Ordonez
1) Finance: Assuming you do some time value of money calculation, even with a high discount rate (say 10%), the total difference in realized value to Holliday (or cost to STL) is small, maybe $5M. Not really cause for the structure. It seems more likely that they’re trying to manage to yearly budget totals, rather than total cost.
2) Legal: Extending the length of the contract puts any default risk on Holliday, albeit only for about $2-$5M in current dollars, as any bankrupcy, lock-out, or dissolution of the CBA could constitute grounds for voiding the remainder of the contract.
The earth will be gone by then anyway so who cares!
I wonder how Keith Law plans to turn this around to making it seem like the Cardinals did something incredibly stupid here.
Perhaps I am naive: why should we assume inflation of the USD will a) proceed steadily and, therefore, b) devalue Holliday’s take in this contract?
Although this does not catapult higher up the genius scale, I love the fact that this guy has a B plan or everything and maximizes the dollar his clients receive no matter the economic client. Ya, Holliday should be getting 5/90, but now he gets 7/120 without any real competition for his services. I’ve said it before and I will always say it, do not blame Boras, he does his job, and he does it really well. congrats STL, a great bat to compliment Pujols!
Those of you saying that it is nice Holliday is getting paid for that amount of time are dumb. It isn’t a question of whether he is getting the same amount, he will technically be receiving $120 million regardless of when he gets it. But what is called into question is the purchasing power that this money has now, in 2010, compared to what it will have the final year they pay the deferred money. Boras and Holliday agreed to this clause in the contract so it would look like Boras could tally another victory next to his name. Deferred money rarely benefits the person receiving unless it is the money + interest, so long as interest is greater than inflation. At this rate, Holliday is receiving 0 interest, giving him nothing to offset the inflation. When he receives his last paycheck, whether it may be 1.4 or 1.6 mill, it will be worth probably half in 2029 compared to what it would be worth today. Holliday receives less purchasing power with the same amount in the future than in the present, therefore making this deal worth significantly less. The fact that Holliday was amenable to the inclusion of this clause displays the little demand for high priced, 30 year old left fielders. Maybe if he hadn’t dropped that ball in the ALDS against the dodgers they would have given him interest to offset the inflation. hah.
So what happens if Holliday gets traded before the end of his contract? Does the team he finishes out the contract with – Team B – have to pay all of the deferred payments, thereby letting the Cards off the hook, or would Team B just pay the payments for the years in which Holliday is in their employ? Who would pay if Holliday were traded midseason? They’d split it, I’m guessing?
Not positive, but I’m pretty sure there is a no trade clause in the contract
also his half birthday i believe.
this deal is closer to 7 yr 112 million we were hearing about rather than the 7 yr 120 mil
the players union always calculates the contracts based on present day value for comparisions sake and this contract will be valued at apx 7 yr 110 million
does arod contract have anything like this,, i know the rangers are still paying him??
Johan Santana
6 years/$137.5M (2008-13), plus 2014 club option
acquired in trade from Minnesota 2/2/08 (Santana waived no-trade clause and agreed to new 6-year deal, replacing final year of previous contract)
08:$19M, 09:$20M, 10:$21M, 11:$22.5M, 12:$24M, 13:$25.5M, 14:$25M club option ($5.5M buyout)
full no-trade clause
>>>>>$5M deferred annually at 1.25% compound interest (payable June 30 seven years after season in which salary was earned)<<<<<<, reducing present-day value of package to $123.1M
award bonuses: $0.5M-$1.5M for Cy Young (varies based on number won), $0.25M each for MVP or World Series MVP, $0.1M each for All Star selection, LCS MVP, post-season MVP, post-season All Star, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger
2014 club option becomes player option if Santana:
wins Cy Young award from 2008-13 and finishes second or third in the Cy Young vote in one other season
ranks second or third in Cy Young vote in any 3 seasons, 2008-13
is on the active roster for the final 30 days of 2013 season, and:
pitches 215 innings in 2013, or
pitches 420 innings in 2012-13, or
pitches 630 innings in 2011-13
the party holding the 2014 option must exercise it by Nov. 15, 2013
if 2014 option is Santana's and he declines it, he receives no buyout
perks: hotel suite on road trips, 15-person suite for 2008 home games
Santana to donate $0.25M annually to Mets charity