Here's the latest on the Mets, who still have significant work to do…
- MetsBlog's Matthew Cerrone hears Ben Sheets will seek "at least $10 million, plus lots of incentives, and a second-year, player-controlled option." He says that while the Mets' interest in Sheets is legitimate, they prefer Joel Pineiro. The Mets made an offer – probably two years – to Pineiro.
- Cerrone writes about Bengie Molina, saying the Mets "offered at least $1 million more than the Giants, and also offered a player-controlled option for 2011." Cerrone believes Molina grew skeptical of playing in New York.
- Ken Davidoff of Newsday writes of a "team-fan disconnect," in that a Mets official he spoke to expected the team to get hammered for not signing Molina, but most fans don't mind.
- ESPN's Buster Olney writes of "signals being sent out on Tuesday night that the Mets are turning to Yorvit Torrealba." David Waldstein of the New York Times suggests the Mets would have to pay extra for Torrealba to settle the catcher's two-year-old grievance as part of a new deal. Rod Barajas is probably the only other starting-caliber free agent catcher remaining.
Sign Sheets and Piniero.
I would sign both,…..that said, with the way the Mets are rumored to be going about it we aren’t likely to sign either one!
I agree with this. Forget about Torealba or Barajas. Take that money and use it to sign both Sheets and Piniero. Santana, Sheets, Piniero, Pelfrey, Maine/Perez/Niese would be the best rotation in the NL East if healthy. Please Omar, do something smart for a change. We don’t need a mediocre catcher when we already have capable ones on the team (Blanco and Santos).
$10M guaranteed for a guy who missed all of 2009 and averaged just 150 innings from ’05 to ’08?
Good luck…
John Lackey’s contract shows that it’s possible he hasn’t thrown 200 innings since 07 and look at the contract he just got.
But Lackey wasnt coming off surgery and missing an entire season
Not even comparable. Lackey got what he got because even coming off injuries he dominated the past 2 seasons. Not only that, he got LESS from Boston then he probably could have gotten had he hung on the market a bit longer and definitely would have landed with the Mets at a pitchers park. Lackey was a bargain deal for Boston, especially considering rather than demanding a player option, he allowed Boston a protection clause for 2015.
I don’t know how he signed that contract. He could have gotten much more. You have to understand, as much as it sucks the Yankees have set a standard for what you have to pay to get what you want. Because every player knows as Teix showed last year that if you wait in the shadows long enough and the Yanks need you, they will eventually throw in their bid, and it will be bigger than the one that your team offers. Boston learned that hence why they bid high. So did St. Louis.
Bay was the only really “bad” signing this offseason, and that was just because of the 5th year and the ridiculous sum of money due to him in the back few years of the deal. I’m sorry but regardless of that hes playing for 7 million this year, he will never be worth $20MM. No way. No how. It will hinder the Mets for years to come.
The Mets HAD to get Bay after losing out on Lackey. We’ll see if the contract really hinders them in a few years, but as of right now, he has a very good bat that will perform well in the middle of that lineup.
Bay is not a great hitter. He’s a very strong power hitter who I would compare to a McGwire pre-roids. He’s going to give you power, but he’s not going to hit for average, he’s not going to provide any good defense and he is injury prone. Don’t get me wrong. I love the guy. He did all he could to replace Manny Ramirez which are some big shoes to fill, but facts remain facts. I believe he’s something like 23.6MM at 36? I will forcast this contract for you.
Name Vladamir Guerrero ring a bell to you? You have 36 year old Vlad, who is 31 and gets paid more. He will not be able to play the field in 2-3 years, and you will wind up having to trade him, eat the majority of his contract just to get a small piece in return and he will DH in the AL for the final two years of this deal while whatever team gets him is happy to have his power for so cheap. I hate to say it cause the Mets are my NL team. My grandfather did the plumbing at Shea Stadium so I had season tickets up until 1997 when I gave them up. I love Bay, but these are sad truths. I’m sorry Omar Minaya hurt you guys so badly…
Sheets does not deserve that money, but the sad part is that someone will probably pay him that much. Hopefully not the cubs.
FOR THAT KINDA COIN YOU GUYS CAN HAVE HIM! YIKES!
Cubs only have about half that money to spend. The new owner has them on a budget. The Mets on the other hand, apparently don’t use a budget. Then when you factor in that the Mets have a much greater need for a starter, I’d be more worried about the Mets ponying up the money. They’ve already indicated they may spend big money on Piniero. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Cubs bow out soon or turn around and spend the money on someone else…hopefully a big bat.
I AGREE
Ben Sheets is nuts. I do want the Cubs to sign him, but not for 10mil+ I will lmao if someone pays that. Unless of course it is our beloved Cubbies.
Wow…. let the Yankee’s or Red Sox have him at that price. Is he smoking crack?
Neither even went to see him… at any price. They will pass on this one. Risk is not worth the reward.
You can give sheets two years, the idea is to be creative with the deal.
Example Guaranteed 6 million, for both years. So 6 mil in 2010 and 6 mil in 2011.
Add in Incentives, Innings pitched, Days on the Active Roster etc.
Basically only 12 mil guaranteed but with incentives it can reach about 20-21 mil.
It’s basically just about being creative and intellectual with the incentives and base salary.
Except that Sheets reportedly wants 10M guaranteed per year PLUS incentives…and he wants a player option. Giving him less guaranteed money and controlling him for an extra year isn’t creatively using the same amount of money, it’s just giving him less and taking his options away. Why would that entice him?
I think that Omir Santos did a great job catching last year. Granted I only saw him against the Braves. He hit .260 7hr and 40 RBI, and that was only in 96 games. If you expand those stats to 162 games, he would have comparable or better stats than Yorvit Torrealba would over the same stretch. As mentioned above why not just go with a Santos/Thole combo? Santos only made 3 errors, and caught 30% of base runners (Mauer was at 29%).
Most sensable Met fans want to go with the option of Santos/Thole/Blanco. There are plenty of catchers on the Major/Minor league roster right now to rotate throughout the year.
The Mets should be allocating the money for Molina/Torreabla to Pinero/Sheets/Hudson.
Unfortunately, with catchers when you expand their numbers to 162 games, in reality their numbers will usually decline not go up.
It’s the classic red herring backup catcher. That being said, I am fine with a Thole/Santos Platoon
What Sheets wants and what Sheets will get are two different things. That is, unless Jim Hendry has something to say about it. Fortunately, I don’t think he has the kind of dry powder to mess things up as badly as he is capable of.
Mike Francess on Wfan says Mets are pursue Chris Synder on Arizona.. decent injury risk
Sheets vs. Pineiro:
The Met “brain-trust” is more interested in Joel Pineiro than Ben Sheets.
The reasoning is demands based. Sheets is coming off a year of nothing and demanding a base salary well above what seems reasonable. 10 Mil Guaranteed + Incentives + Player Option seems like a ludicrous amount. Especially compared to the meaningless Phlavio offer of 5 Mil Guaranteed + Incentives + Vesting or Team Option. The big question is… would two years of Pineiro at 7 Mil per be worth much? If Pineiro pitches up to 2009 then it would be more then worth it, but nobody believes that is likely.
Bengie Molina would rather play for San Francisco. I don’t blame him as the Giants are poised to be right up with the Dodgers, Phillies, Cardinals, and Braves at the top of the National League. It’s frankly absurd that he was demanding more years from Omar when he’d take a lesser deal elsewhere.
There is a Team-Fan disconnect? Really? You mean like the fans clamoring for Lackey and him moving on? The fans clamoring for pitching and the team signing Bay? The fans foaming at the mouth for Hudson and the team giving 2 Mil to Alex Cora? Perhaps they should put a fan in charge of the team… namely me.
Molina backup plans: Yorvit Torealba who is mediocre and nothing to write home about, Rod Barajas who hits for power but a .230 average and looks like he ate Bengie Molina or Omir Santos and Josh Thole/Henry Blanco. Hey… we spent actual money on Blanco already so… why not ACTUALLY use him?
Phlavio as GM:
Take an agressive approach to Sheets
If Sheets maintains his stupid demands ignore him and get Garland or Pineiro AND Bedard
Sign Ryan Garko
See what Hudson wants to have a utility role/take over for overpriced Castillo. He might sign for less then CORA
Great points. Dump Castillo for Synder, arizone catcher
Orlando Hudson will not sign less then 2MM (R U NUTS).
I’ll rather have Delgado then Garko.
I would be semi scared if you became the Mets GM. You might actually make them competive. Not that they aren’t now, just seriously competitive.
Fans should not run a team. A lot of Met fans wanted Barry Zito after 2006.
Ricky – Snyder is hurt too much
Ill-Will – Washington was the only rumor for O-Hud and 1.5 was the number attached to it.
BBXXJ – I think that u give me too much credit. I’d probably be booed out of town.
Ice Drake – I actually was in total fear that off-season of actually getting Zito. I’ll tell you that I would have not stood pat while Lee and Martinez were traded last year. That was a mistake that Omar should be regretting.
Why? So they could have won 80 games instead of 72? People bash Omar for making the Colon trade years ago but expected him to do the same last year? I don’t blame him for not wanting to sacrifice the future for a futile effort. 90% of fans are stupid and fickle. Always trying to please them is a waste.
I would have made the trades for 2010. Looking at what was given up. The Mets would have entered this offseason with less to spend but two glaring holes filled.
Imagine V-Mart as the catcher and Lee in the rotation right now. That is a lot better then Cora, backup catchers and Bay.
Of course that would leave them with absolutely no farm system.
V-Mart can’t catch anyway.
Knapp SP + Donald SS + Marson C = Tejada SS + Thole C + Stoner SP
Masterson RP/SP + Hagadone P + Price + = Mejia or Holt SP + Two Cohoon P + McHugh P
That would have diminished the farm but still left players like Ike Davis there. I’d also not have needed to get Bay and give up a pick for him. leaving the team open to a bargain risk like Guerrero or Damon.
V-Mart isn’t a good catcher, but the Met’s have an opening at 1B too.
You can’t say those players would have gotten it done. The Indians may have really liked those players and not thought the same of the Mets’ players.
Guerrero is a DH at this point in his career. He’s pretty bad hitter, too. One of the reasons the Angels signed Abreu was so their hitters would stop trying to be like Guerrero and swing at everything and more like Abreu and be patient. Damon would be awful in any park without a 300 foot RF. Not to mention he can’t field either. You want him and his noodle arm throwing from the LF wall in Citi Field? Guys could score from 2B on a sac fly if he caught it.
Your point on prospects is valid but I was just showing that it COULD be done. My big point is that the team for 2010 would be much better and have spent less on those two players then Jason Bay for a year.
I agree with you on this one. Most of these people have NO IDEA what they are talking about.
Hudson may sign a 1 year deal but it will be $5MM+
Garko sucks
And moreso than anything its not a Sheets OR Pineiro OR Bedard. You need 2 of the 3. Thats not a want. Thats a need.
If you go into next season with:
1) Santana – injured last year, who knows if he will be 100%?
2) Maine – Off and on, overall a solid starter
3) Pelfrey – Should be solid enough for a #3
4) Ollie – Most overpaid #4 in baseball, who’s got great stuff, but no control. Likely to get smacked around.
5) Sheets – Injury prone, no idea what you are getting
You would still be screwed as at least 2 of these 5 is not going to work out as planned. That leaves Niese in a pressure situation much like Hughes and Kennedy for the Yanks, where he will likely fail. They still need one of Smoltz, Garland, Pineiro or Bedard as an insurance policy. Then you have at minimum 4 working pitchers at any given time taking pressure of the youngsters and best case scenario you turn Perez or another starter into a spot starter to give people extra days off.
Learn from the Red Sox. We went into last season with what? 8 starters? Wound up putting the ball back in Buchholz hands and gave Tazawa spot starts a year before they wanted to? Don’t force yourself into that hole. Spend the extra 5-10 mil it will take and get 2 of the 4 instead of just 1.
Next screw DelTaco (who spends more time at Taco Bell than on the playing field), screw Garko, and go get Russell Branyan. His value was about $13MM according to fangraphs last season, and while I don’t expect him to duplicate it, he is still good for 20 homers which is the kind of bat they need.
Lastly with Beltran down and Murphy at 1B, Why in the hell are the Mets not all over Jim Edmonds. Hear me out. He is capable of playing RF, while shifting Pagan or FMart over to CF, and when Beltran returns, shift him to hit RHP at 1B, and bring Murphy off the bench or trade him. Plain and simple.
Sheets – 7-8MM+ incentives for 2010, 5 mil plus incentives player option for 2011 which cant be exercised if he doesn’t start 15 games in 2010.
Smoltz – 5-6MM+ incentives for 2010.
Branyan – 2/$17-19MM should easily get this done with a small signing bonus.
Jim Edmonds – $500k+ incentives.
So you are talking about adding about $20MM in payroll for 2010 (unless sheets hits all of his incentives) and only committing an additional $14MM for 2011. This would give them a strong NL rotation, with plenty of depth to replace injuries and not rushing Niese, FMart or anyone else. Catching duties will have to be covered in house, but I’m willing to bet the WAR is not that strong in favor of signing Torrealba or Barajas.
There is almost nothing the Mets can do now to catch the Phillies. No Molina means the Mets 2010 opening day roster will feature Santos, Murphy, Castillo and Pagan. No team that trots out that lineup will chalenge Philly.
Molina would not have helped, throw the $$ at pitching, try and trade for a synder(too much $$/yrs) or Towles, Landon powell younger type w/ some upside
great points. As a met fan, the best i can hope for is that they don’t do anything stupid like trade Davis.
Okay, gonna chime in again. This time I’ll try to keep it brief. Yes, I would have liked Molina for 1 maybe 2 years. Anyone who doesn’t think he’s good enough to bat 7th or 8th for the Mets is insane. Now that he’s gone, I would much rather see a trade for Ryan Doumit then a signing of Torrealba/Barajas. Also the Pirates still need a second-basemen. Castillo…if we eat some of his contract? That means Hudson would be clear to come and play for dirt cheap. Bringing his gold glove alone would help our pitchers out a lot. Finally, Pineiro…really? The guy had 5 straight years of being well below average and after 1 decent year with Dave Duncan, they wanna sign him for two years! To add stability to our rotation, no less! I’m not saying Sheets is stable and in all honesty if he throws 200 innings, he will probably surprise himself. That said, Sheets offers at least double the up-side of Pineiro and the chance of being a true #2 behind Santana. If they still wanna add stability and some more depth, Jon Garland can offer both.
“Also the Pirates still need a second-basemen.”
Did Iwamura die or something?
Agreed though, Doumit would be a good fit in Flushing however he won’t come cheap and certainly not Castillo even if you eat his entire contract.
Try as I might as a Met fan, Atlanta fans seem to end up my favorite people.
Someones lost his marbles….
As a long time forum poster I’ll say this.
Yankee Fans rarely know anything about other teams and almost never about the NL
Philly Fans have no class
Met Fans make no sense
Brave Fans tend to actually be fair.
I’m to young to know the big Mets – Braves rivalry. Honestly I like the braves a little. And yes their fans always seem to actually have a brain.
Why do all of you Mets fans hate on Castillo. That dropped ball vs the yankees sent every met fan into a “screw Castillo” phase… The dude hit .300 for you last year and was one of the few effective players? Why would you want to get rid of him and eat some of his contract for a lesser player? Its just silly.
Hudson plays much better defense, practically in another class compared to Castillo. Also Hudson is much more consistent over the past few seasons as where Castillo can easily repeat his lackluster performance of 08. Castillo always looks unhappy and doesn’t want to be here anymore. Can you blame him? Would you wanna stay where no one wants you? Hudson is a hard-nosed played, who goes out and plays every game. He doesn’t look miserable the whole time and wants to come to NY.
All speculation first of all. I agree Hudson much better D, but eating much of castillos contract and signing Hudson for the 6 mil or so it would take is like paying 10-15MM for Hudson. That won’t get you more wins. Have to look at your holes first before worrying about replacing one mediocre player with an above average one
Hudson was offered 3.5 million from the Nationals. Seeing as he wants to play for the mets im sure he would come here for around the same price. Castillo makes 6 mill this year. 9-10 million for an above average second basemen and having Castillo to pinch-hit/run would be well worth it.
And you actually believe that that 4 million he is willing to accept, for starters. Second you actually believe that that is a better move than allocating that money to pitching and 1B?! The Mets are not an endless pool of money the way the Yanks are. They already wasted 2MM on a mediocre backup infielder in Cora. There is NO REASON for them to get in on Hudson. None whatsoever. Not saying he wouldn’t be an upgrade if they didn’t have holes in pitching, catching, 1B and now the outfield
The hole at first base is either gonna be plugged with Delgado or left to Murphy so no real need to save money for that. Santos will be catching at least for the first part of the year which is fine since Barajas and Torrelalba suck. Pagan is more then capable of filling in for Beltran till he is back. That leaves plenty of money for pitching and Hudson. On a side note, for all intensive purposes the Mets have just as much money to spend as the Yankees. They have a brand new 700 million dollar ballpark and their own tv. station. They have the money, no doubts there, but spending it…is another story.
Mets ownership is nowhere near the Steinbrenners in terms of dollars. They are from the Cleveland shipping company or whatever and are the 3rd richest owners in baseball behind the Nationals and one other team (forgot and on subway at the moment). That having been said, Delgado as reported early last week by MLBTR was not moving well. Unless something has changed, I don’t think he will resign with the Mets. And you mean to tell me, that you would rather upgrade castillo to hudson then save 4-8 mil for arguments sake to spend on another pitcher? And you’d rather have delgado and murphy then Edmonds and Branyan? You think a little too highly of murphy delgado and hudson if you ask me. But hey, if you want to go back out there with the same stuff the Phillies beat the hell out of you with, who am I to interfere
Hey Omar, you can have Doumit if ya like, and all we’ll ask for is Mejia in return… 😉
okay guys just becuase sheets wants 10MM doesnt mean he is going to get it. matt holiday want mark tex money and only got carlos beltran money.
This is a business he says he wants 10MM he will prob get 6-8MM plus incentives making the deal over 13MM.
The Mets should focus to sign both Sheets and Pineiro. I do not think that any of the Mets starters are any good (not including Santana). A rotation of Santana, healthy Sheets, Pineiro(the way in pitch last year), pelfray or maine, and perez is pretty good.
Then they should package off castillo with maine or pelfray for anything and sign orlando hudson. and then sign maddox, and barajas.
reyers or reyes
hudson beltran
beltran wright
bay bay
wright delgado
delgado frency
frency hudson
barajas barajas
with this lineup and rotation the Mets will be in the mix for a wildcard. maybe even the divison. but i dont think they will beat out the philles
Sheets is great if you can figure out when he’ll get hurt. Anything over 150 inngs out of him is unrealistic.
THE METS SHOULD SIGN SHEETS TO A 2YR DEAL 20MM DEAL!!!The deal should be year 1 5mm plus 5mm of incentives based on innings pitch.* The first year of teh contract should have a opt-out clause for the Mets if he has problem with his elbow, if he pitches less then 75 innings, or if he finishes the seaon on the DLsecond year a 13MM plus incentivesincentives based on Cy Young voting, MVP Voting, All-Star voting, and innings pitch. 3MM on incentives.Option year18MM with (2MM Buyout)incentives based on Cy Young voting, MVP Voting, All-Star voting 2MMTotal the deal can be a 3yr 44MM which is great if Sheets can stay healty.what you Mets fans think of this??
sign sheets … your contract .. no
Sheets had a major injury that kept him out last year, he sits out games for blisters, cuts on THE hand, minor aches and pains. Over the last 5 years the Brewers paid him almost 39 million dollars, and he won 41 games. Yes he has wicked stuff, a high strike out to walk ratio but with all those stats , and all his wicked stuff you are paying 10 million plus to an injury prone pitcher who is 3 games over .500 for his career.
“who is 3 games over .500 for his career.”
It is fair to bring up injuries and surgery and not pitching in over a year, but why does his W/L matter? Why is a pitcher punished for his team having a bad lineup? He cant control how his lineup performs.
(And “hes not good at pitching to the score” or “he didnt will his team to victory” are not acceptable reasons)
sign delgado,sheets,piñeiro and wiinn!!!!! thats alll and go wiith thole, and santos……then gett a trade in the summer for adrian or cabrera maybe……..or other player the wee needing
why don’t the mets just not waste money on yorvit torrealba when they already have 61 catchers in camp???
yorvit isn’t going to be remarkably better than any of those options and he’ll cost quite a bit more than all of them…
and rod barajas? REALLY? mets fans, just say it outloud to yourself: “ROD BARAJAS…” you want to pay him money to take away at-bats from younger better options? great idea…
STOP with the santos/thole idea. ridiculous prediction. henry blanco was brought in for a reason: to help stabilize the pitching staff and mentor the youngsters during spring training. he will be on the team, barring injury of course. santos IS good enough to start at catcher for the mets. he did very well last year. WHY don’t you mets fans see that? you should be shutting up those calling for molina, torrealba, barajas…
-THINK-
That’s all well and great that you don’t want vets taking ab’s from young guys but the mets are built to win now and having a veteran catcher who can handle a pitching staff and play good defense while chipping in with the occaional double or home run for cheap is probably the best route(barajas). He’s a known commodity, you don’t know what you are getting with thole in his first year.
Thole, Martinez, and Neise all need to start the year at AAA.
wow, why don’t you see that their division means they aren’t built to win now…
the phillies are a power house, the marlins get their wins every season, the braves are getting pretty darn good.
the mets need pitching above all else. wasting $50M on a closer when you don’t have the rotation to get the ball to him doesn’t make much sense. it seems like the mets are running out of money and they desperately need another starter.
THIS TEAM IS BUILT FOR NOW, BUT NOT TO WIN NOW… not a great scenario
Mets need to give us a reason to care – sign Sheet/Pineiro
5 players guaranteed that won’t be Mets in 2010:
Xavier Nady
Ben Sheets
Bronson Arroyo
Orlando Hudson
John Garland
So just give it up—but never fear, Omar and Jeff won’t leave you without a team, so here are five players that are locks to be on the team opening day!
Luis Castillo
Oliver Perez
Omir Santos
Nelson Figueroa
Alex Cora
Your 2010 Mets Slogan: Last Place? Si!!!
What are you a psychic? Get the f out of here with your Mets hating!
Sheets is NUTS! If Rich Harden a pitcher who acutally played last year is able to walk away with a one year $7.5 million dollar deal where does Sheets feel like he’s owed $10 million PLUS with a player option for a 2nd year? He’ll be lucky to walk away with $5-$6 million guranteed with an additional $6 million plus in incentives. Any team that gives in to these demands is NUTS.
PLEASE CUBS BOW OUT NOW! NO WAY does this make sense after you let Harden walk and sign with Texas for an additional $500K
I want Sheets on the Mets this year because if he is healthy then the Mets will have a legitimate number 2 behind Johan but for 10 mill plus incentives? is he serious? i know he wanted somewhere near 12 mill but he needs to sign an 8 mill deal with incentives that will get him the 12 mill he wants and also if the Mets have to give a 2nd year options based on starts and innings pitched then so be it but dont guarentee the 2nd year. Also they need a sure thing and i wanted Marquis from the get go because hes pitched 200 innings and 30 starts every year for the past 5 and Piniero only had 1 good year in the last 5 but hes all thats left and the Mets need someone who can log 200 innings and 30+ starts.
Not too worried about the Mets signing a starting-quality catcher. After all, aside from Johan Santana, they don’t have any starting-quality pitchers anyway!
10 million plus incentives?? is this guy for real? Hey, sheets buddy, did you forget you missed the whole last year due to an injury?! Wake up man.