The Yankees placed righty Chad Gaudin on waivers, tweets Ed Price of AOL FanHouse. Assuming he's not picked up, the Yankees can then release him and pay a quarter of his $2.95MM salary ($737,500) or send him to the minors and pay his full salary.
Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News wrote yesterday of whispers of the Yanks sending Gaudin or Sergio Mitre to the Dodgers for Jamie Hoffmann, though you have to think Gaudin's salary would be an issue. A year ago, after the Cubs released Gaudin, the Nationals, Rockies, and Athletics expressed interest before he signed with the Padres. The Rockies went in a different direction with their acquisition of Jason Hammel, one of the best trades of the year.
I see this shaping up pretty much how I figured. Joba and Hughes will be called into Girardi’s office later today or tomorrow morning. Hughes will the 5th starter for the start of the season. He has been all along. Joba, let’s face it, is a force to be reckoned with out of the bullpen, so why fight it. Perhaps next year he can try again for the starting role, when there maybe more spots open. He’ll still only be 24 or 25. Many people don’t like Mitre, but I bet he surprises a few people with his ability to stand in if needed.
Joba, let’s face it, is a force to be reckoned with out of the bullpen, so why fight it.
Hughes was a force to be reckoned with out of the bullpen also. Not to mention that Joba has had more success as a starter thus far in their careers.
Hughes was NOT a force in the playoffs!
Neither was Joba. I seem to recall him blowing Andy Pettite’s game in Cleveland in the ALDS.
The bugs!! The bugs!!
Joba has been the better starter for an obvious reason. The Yankees jock the piss out of him, Hughes missed more than 1/2 of his 1st season when he was supposed to be a starter. So once Hughes was out and Joba became lights-out in the bullpen, the Yanks favored him and gave him the job, granted Hughes was still struggling a bit, but there’s such things as a learning curve. My feeling is this, Joba out of the bullpen = 98+ MPH and filthy off-speed. Joba as a starter= Low 90s, decent slider when he doesn’t try to overthrow, but even more importantly is how can he be an effective starter when he rarely gets out of the 5th inning without throwing 100+ pitches?????? Moreover, if in fact it turns out that Hughes and Mitre tanks, then fret not, Golden Boy will get his 2nd look.
“Joba out of the bullpen = 98+ MPH and filthy off-speed. ”
Did you see Joba in the playoffs last year? He was not throwing 98. He was sitting 94-96, which is only tick above what he does as a starter. You have invented a mental image of Joba and anything which confirms your image you use as evidence, but anything that disagrees with it, you ignore. If Joba’s minor league games had been televised, I’m pretty sure everyone would be saying how dominant Joba is as a starter and that he needs to stay in the rotation. Joba did not throw 98 in the bullpen last year. Joba also has outperformed Hughes in the rotation. Joba had an ERA below 4 last year until the Yankees started tinkering with his innings. He is so close, we can’t give up now.
“Hughes was still struggling a bit, but there’s such things as a learning curve.”
Joba is on that same learning curve as well. And he’s farther along. No need to hold him back now.
“Joba, let’s face it, is a force to be reckoned with out of the bullpen, so why fight it.”
Reliever: 50 games, 60 IP, 40H, 79 K, .182 AVG, 1.50 ERA
Starter: 34 games, 221.1 IP, 227 H, 206 K, .266 AVG, 4.18 ERA
Reliever: 44 games, 51.1 IP, 31 H, 65 K, .172 AVG, 1.40 ERA
Starter: 28 games, 141.1 IP, 144 H, 112 K, .265 AVG, 5.22 ERA
So Hughes has been a better reliever, and Joba has been a better starter. So that’s why you ‘fight it’.
I’m guessing their work this spring is going to have a far greater impact on the decision than stats from a few years ago.
Yeah, 19 combined ST innings >>>>> 400+ major league innings
You are highly confused if you think the Yankees care at all about what Hughes did as a 22 year old in 2007, which is when most of those innings as a starter occurred.
It is about a lot more than ST innings. The coaching staff has been watching them throw all spring. They are going to choose the best pitcher right now, not the best pitcher from 2 years ago.
My ST innings comment was sarcasm. They are basing it off of more than that I am aware- but tell me why Hughes deserves the 5th spot over Joba? Tell me why Hughes was bounced from the rotation last year and not Joba, tell me why Hughes has had worse results as a starter than Joba yet people say Hughes is better?
I’ve never given my opinion on who I think will be the starter. All I meant to say was that comparing career numbers at such a young age seems ridiculous, especially when the majority of the data for Hughes that you are using occurred over 2 years ago.
As for who I think will be chosen, I do think that Hughes will win the job. Part of that is because he was the better pitcher last year, even if Joba and Hughes were in different roles. Another reason is that Hughes has at least had positive results as a starter over a significant period of time, even if it was in the minors. Joba was rushed and really has not proven that he is capable of starting.
This is just a guess though. As I said, I imagine the better pitcher in camp will be awarded the job. If they were going to base it off of career statistics then they would have named the starter by now.
220 IP as a starter with a 4.18 ERA in the MAJORS isn’t successful at a young age? He’s also pitching in the AL East so yeah I’d say Joba has had success as a starter. I think the Yankees should let Joba pitch the year without restrictions to really prove what he can do, if he falters this year then yeah I’ll support grooming his as the next closer, but if can have an ERA near 4 and cuts down on the walks he’s more valuable as a starter.
Because Joba gets all the looks, Hughes was injured for a good portion of his first season scrub. Justify Joba’s ST or his last few starts in the Majors last year, then find a reason why Joba should get a shot at the #5 spot. That’s what I’m tellin you playa.
Exactly. I want Joba as a starter. Both actually. However there’s not enough space for both so I say put Hughes in the Pen.
It’s a funny world we live in when neither the Yanks or Dodgers may be willing to take on a sub $3M player even if it helps their team.
I could see the Brewers in this as well. They could possibly benifit from some more stable innings from their staff beyond the top three.
Gaudin to the Brewers to take Suppan’s place in the rotation.
As was expected, but the Nats should shoot this man another call to fill up the 5th spot in their rotation 🙂
Nats and Gaudin do make good matches. The Nats are actually fielding a pretty good team this season and Gaudin would be some terrific depth for them. Shame Yanks can’t get anything in return. Nothing more than a salary dump.
I know right, they should for sure give us Strasburg straight up.
Huh? Did I say that? You’re trolling right now aren’t you?
I wouldn’t mind the Cubs taking a look at him again as a reliever since the cost would be next to nothing. Gaudin, however, will likely get some offers to join a rotation somewhere so I don’t see him settling for a relief role, especially with a team that has already let him go once.
Good point…he said last year that he signed with the Padres because of the chance to start.
I think you have it right. There are teams that might let him start. Like Tim pointed out, he prefers to start. Plus, he got into Lou’s doghouse for not getting pitches over the plate. Especially, after he hurt himself with the dumpster incident.
Orioles should pick him up and add depth
I thought the Yankees should have used the money they spent on Gaudin, Winn, and Thames on a better OF option.
It’s 5m for those 3 players. And you’d have to replace the 2 bench players, and that’d cost ~1m each so it’s really just 3m for Gaudin. What better OF option was available for 3m?
Nady, for one.
Rotoworld said that Piniella said Nady wont be playing the field until June. Maybe they knew it at the time, maybe they didnt; but he was too big of a risk to spend whatever money you had remaining.
Yet the Yankees reportedly made a bona fide offer to him.
Didnt say they didnt- obviously they didnt match 3.3m +2m in incentives; they didnt want to spend their remaining budget on a guy who is basically a question mark.
And if they did sign him for 3.3m, would your comment read “I thought the Yanks should have used the money on an injuried LF/DH on a better OF option”?
Any other OF option that you would like that 3m spent on?
I would rather have Gaudin in the fold rather than Mitre. Gaudin simply has better stuff and it lends for him being a spot starter, long relief type.
As for the Joba situation, I think the Yanks have been fools the way they approached things going into spring training.
a) There should never have been a hint or glimmer of hope that Mitre, Gaudin or Aceves could actually win a spot over Joba or Hughes.
b) In my opinion the Yanks should have gone into ST w the understanding that the job was Joba’s to lose. Most pitchers guaranteed a rotation spot use ST to fine tune things and to work on command and auditioning new pitches (i.e. AJ Burnett and his change up). Joba needs to regain command off some of his off speed stuff other than the slider. ST would have been a perfect opp for that to happen. Instead he’s more concerned w/ wins and losses and ERA and “winning” a spot.
c) So what Aceves and Mitre are pitching well. IT’S SPRING TRAINING!!!!!! It’s just as foolish to expect CC to go the entire year w/ a 5.00 + ERA as it would be to expect Aceves or Mitre to throw 200 + IP w/ a sub 4.00-4.50 ERA. What if either of the two pitched so well in ST (sub 2.00 ERA or something in 15-20 IP w/ all the peripherals) that it forced Girardi to give them the 5th spot. Does anyone really think it would be a good look to send Joba AND Hughes to the pen and dedicate innings to a guy like Mitre or Aceves (no disrespect to Aceves). Joba and Hughes are a big part of the Yanks futures and they need innings!!!!
d) I understand why Joba was moved to the pen in 07 when he made his debut. I understand why he started as a relief guy in 08, moved to the starting rotation and ended 08 in the pen after the minor arm injury. I understand why they coddled him in 09 and had the “Joba Rules” to protect his arm. Why, after all the intent of making him a starter and prepping him for being able to pitch 200 innings would you throw all that away soley based upon spring training? (In my best Allen Iverson voice) What are we talking about here….spring training? Spring training?
d) cont’d : You make all that commitment to Joba as a starter and end up overruling your plan based upon 15 ST innings? Really?
e) I love Hughes’ arsenal and think he would make a great starter one day. Why not go thru 2010 with Joba in the rotation. See once and for all whether he has the chops to be a starter. His ego will be just as damaged if he lost his spot in ST as it would if it happened after 10 starts in 2010. Stick Hughes in the pen and use him IF there’s a major injury to a starter. If everyone stays healthy and Joba pitches well then going into the winter of 2010/2011 you have CC, AJ and Joba in the rotation. Who knows what will happen with Pettite and Vazquez and whether or not they’ll be brought back. The Yanke could either go after a major FA pitcher like Lee or Beckett and they can have Hughes graduate to the 5th spot.
As a Yanks fan I’m simply perplexed with the idea that Joba might be beaten out by Aceves or Mitre simply based on 15-20 ST innings. Absurd is the word.
“As a Yanks fan I’m simply perplexed with the idea that Joba might be beaten out by Aceves or Mitre”
I wouldnt worry about that, I’d actually have to hear them say that Ace or Mitre is the 5th starter before I believe it. And Girardi said they’re not making the decision JUST on 15 innings, he said there were other factors at play.
I’ve always been perplexed by Girardi’s persistent affection for Mitre. I’ll admit I haven’t seen him pitch since he was with the Cubs. My visual memories of Mitre on the mound as a Cub get mixed up with those of Rudy from the Bad News Bears: a couple of pitches that bounce 5 feet in front of home plate followed by a fat pitch thrown down the middle of the plate that hitters would hit with terrifying authority. That might be fine for a kid’s baseball comedy, but it’s not a memory I want to revisit in a real game (unless it’s my favorite team that’s up to bat:)
This is how Mitre’s season went last year: http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6656593
LOL…in other words, he hasn’t changed much. That looked awfully familiar. Geez, that was a monster shot by Snider.
AZ might be a good landing place…
I agree – the Dbacks haven’t indicated interest yet, but I think Gaudin is a much better option for them than Rodrigo Lopez.
East Coast Bias
Damn you YanksFanSince78! Damn you for presenting an argument which makes me question my prior sentiments!!
I really like the idea of 2011 Joba and Hughes + a FA arm to round out the back three starting spots. And if Joba fails this year as a starter, he’s in the BP for good going forward, while Hughes takes his spot. That way Yanks need to replace two pitchers via free agency next season, which is not that big of a big deal for them.
Yankees should move both Hughes and Joba to the pen. They have both been at their own best there…
This year either start Aceves or Mitre and then next year go after Cliff Lee and either (Cain, Lowry, Chris Young, or maybe even Beckett). Pettite’s and Javy’s salarys will come off the books and then they can put together the best rotation in baseball, AGAIN!
Why would you give Mitre or Ace 170+ innings, yet limit Joba and Hughes to probably 170 IP combined? I know we all love the 8th inning now, but if you have Mitre sucking for the first 6 26x a year then what’s the point?
“They have both been at their own best there”
Yeah, 99% of starters are better as relievers too. So that argument doesnt really work.
“Cliff Lee and either (Cain, Lowry, Chris Young, or maybe even Beckett).”
Cain and Young have club options. Lowry? Noah Lowry? Dude hasnt pitched in how many years? Lee is going to want 100m, and Beckett is going to want atleast what AJ/Lackey got. So you’re going to have 4 starting pitchers making 100m? That’s ridiculous.
The Beckett move would be a move to subtract from the sox.
Cliff Lee = b.p.a (best player available)
Lowry would be cheap and from what I remember he has good stuff
There really is not that much else good stuff out there
Mo will only last so long, plus in the playoffs it gives you the 7,8,9 combo that limits the starters innings and allows them to come back quicker…
I didnt say Beckett and Lee werent good pitchers; but you cant have 4 guys 30+ signed for 5 years getting paid 18m+ each. It’s not realistic, or necessary.
2009: 0 Major League Innings. 0 Minor League Innings.
2008: 0 Major League Innings. 0 Minor League Innings.
He hasn’t pitched since 2007, come on. He’s a minor league contract guy, why you brought him up I have no idea.
Yes Mo will retire one day, every other team survives without Mo, so will the Yankees.
Yes it’s good in the playoffs; but if CC is dealing are you really going to pull him to save 20 pitches? The more pitchers you bring in the greater chance you have of a pitcher having a bad day. And they’re changing the schedule so you cant just use 3 SP on 3 days rest.
I seriously don’t have enough time to deal with all of your fallacies. I only wish I didn’t have class. But what I’ve learned today from you sir is that making up facts to dispute other peoples opinions is the way to do things from now on. “Yeah, 99% of starters are better as relievers too. So that argument doesnt really work.” I’ll definitely be LOL all day.
“Yeah, 99% of starters are better as relievers too.” I’m going to need a link for this statistic.
I’d love to have both Hughes and Chamberlain in the pen, but that doesn’t really make long term sense unless they plan to sign another big time free agent next year. I will say that Hughes, Chamberlain and Robertson make an awesome bridge to the Mariano afterlife and one them could potentially do Mo’s job when he’s gone, but New York needs to develop starting pitching. Pettitte will be gone soon and while this year represents a number five spot most anyone decent could fill on the Yankees, they can’t keep jerking those two around and expect results. In my opinion Joba should never have been moved into the rotation. He doesn’t have control of enough pitches and his post game comments after getting bombed indicate he’s clueless. Perfect for a ten to 15 pitch test of machismo that is the domain of saving games before the master takes over. His pitch to Feliz in the World Series indicates he’s still got a lot to learn about that job, but as a starter he’s been a flop to date. “Only an idiot”…sorry Hank, but you need to eat those words.
Hughes has a number of pitches he can control. He was brilliant last year before wearing down, but I like his chances as a starter better than Chamberlain’s. David Robertson can handle the void left by either of them in the pen. Gaudin’s release is kind of curious, but Aceves should own that long relief job. Mitre is a decent insurance policy though…he doesn’t strike out many so his talents are overlooked. Clearly Joe thinks a lot of him from his Marlin days so I guess we should get used to him for now.
This debate seems to go on forever though. Let’s make a decision and move on.
The Yanks have the makings of a strong bullpen with Mo, Robertson, Aceves, Melancon, Gaudin/Mitre and Marte. Adding one of Hughes or Joba makes it even better. Starting pitching is and will always be the toughest part of this team to fix. I think we can all agree that the Yanks will sign one of the top starters next year. We NEED to develop and retain our own young starters and quite frankly Hughes and Joba are the most talented we’ve had in a long time. As far as stuff goes, I would say they have more talent than Pettite had as a rookie. Maybe they have the most since Drabek/Righetti/Guidry.
From a balance stand point the staff is simply better with one of Joba or Hughes in the pen and the other as the 5th starter. The less we expose Mitre and Gaudin the better.
Dodgers maybe take a look…..
“His pitch to Feliz in the World Series indicates he’s still got a lot to learn about that job, but as a starter he’s been a flop to date. “Only an idiot”…sorry Hank, but you need to eat those words”.
Joba in 2 years as a starter:
12-7, 4.18 ERA, 8k/9 IP, 206 ko in 221 IP for a guy who is only 24 yo. Horrible….
His whip is high @ 1.48 which is mostly from walks 101 bb in 221 IP. He doesn’t allow too many hrs (25 in 221 IP) and not too many hits 227 in 221 IP. Not exactly getting hammered. As long as he can get his velocity up to 94+ and regain better control then he should prove to be far from a flop.
I think the odgers shold claim him,so they can have Hoffmann and Gaudin. But they can also get Mitre for Hoffmann also
I could see the Yankees taking a look at Elijah Dukes to replace Hoffmann, his bat could be an asset of the bench if he discovers even some of his ’08 form.