Some links before Cliff Lee makes his Rangers' debut this evening…
- Toronto has plenty of trade chips heading into the deadline, writes Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun.
- FoxSports.com's Jon Paul Morosi says that the Phillies, Dodgers, Reds, White Sox, Angels, and Yankees all had scouts in attendance for last night's Dan Haren–Ricky Nolasco matchup, though it's unclear how many (or if any) were there specifically to watch the righthanders.
- Prospect maven Jim Callis of Baseball America said (via Twitter) that he considers the various packages offered to Seattle for Lee to be "a wash."
- A's GM Billy Beane said that he doesn't anticipate "being that active at the trade deadline," according to John Shea of The San Francisco Chronicle. Ben Sheets (4.89 ERA, 6.6 K/9) hasn't built up the trade value Beane hoped he would when they signed him this winter, but there is always a market for starting pitching.
- Joel Sherman and George A. King III of The New York Post heard that club officials from other teams were "irked" by the Mariners' actions during the Lee trade discussions. They also have info on some other prospects Seattle requested from the Yankees.
- Sherman tweets that the Mariners wanted top outfield prospect Desmond Jennings from the Rays in a deal for Lee.
- Torii Hunter told Ben Bolch of The Los Angeles Times that he wants to be a GM one day, and he thinks that Seattle broke an unwritten rule by trading Lee within the division.
- Derrek Lee told The Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan that he wouldn't ask Cubs' GM Jim Hendry to trade him to a contender.
- Lance Berkman told Bernando Fallas of The Houston Chronicle that it feels different to see the Astros in sell mode.
I’d tell Torii Hunter that you’re supposed to get the best return possible, especially when you’re trading a gut like Cliff Lee.
Sounds like sour grapes to me. Everyone knows the Rangers were the best team in that division prior to the Lee trade. Now everyone knows that no one else has a chance. Look for the A’s to start selling soon.
I would agree. There is no unwritten rule! What makes Torii Hunter’s opinion valid? I think if he was ever a GM, he would want the best package as well.
You trade for the players that best fit your needs. If that’s within your division, you do it. Because of the potential future consequences, I would make sure to charge a premium for the trade. I think Seattle did that. Then the Rangers turned around and had Lowe added, so they’d have at least one pitcher that will stick around to cover the loss of the other pitchers in the deal.
The Rangers can take this chance because they have a solid farm system.
It’s really irksome when a team makes the trade they want, instead of the trade your team wants.
I still don’t know which package i would have prefered: One with Montero or Smoak ? Though, I think it would have been a no brainer had they included Nunez but what an overpayment, relative to the other Lee trades in the past year. I don’t think you can be too mad at the Mariners for how they acted because everyone knows the name of the game in baseball is to get the Yankees involved in any type of transaction – free agent or trade – so as to help jack up the price. Cashman knows he’s used more as a pawn in discussions with other teams more often then he is actually successful in trade talks or signings. Though i wonder how the players involved in each deal will progress. It may look as bad as all those people who swore the Twins would have no need for Jon Lester as Bucholz is sooo much better, i bet those people are laughing at themselves right now.
This deal looks like the one made when Santana was traded except instead of waiting and biding their time Jack Z took advantage of an enviable situation and didn’t wait for the deal to come to him. Sure it may not have been ethical, but, when you look at the Sanatana trade debacle any GM must be worried now about waiting too long and losing leverage on a depreciable product.
I’m surprised the M’s didn’t trade to Yanks or Twins… with either Montero or Ramos, they’d get another solid catching prospect (although montero may not stay behind the plate). Rob Johnson doesn’t seem to be doing much and I’m not sure the M’s farm has much promise at catcher.
They need a bopping first baseman as much as they need a catcher, and I’d rather get a true star possibility like Montero or Smoak than get a merely good player that fits a need like Ramos.
Roger Clemens was traded from the Blue Jays to the Yankees.
Kevin Millwood was traded from the Braves to the Phillies.
Mike Piazza was traded from the Marlins to the Mets.
Aramis Ramirez was traded from the Pirates to the Cubs.
Cliff Floyd was traded from the Marlins to the Expos.
Ellis Burks was traded from the Rockies to the Giants.
These are just off the top of my head. THERE IS NO UNWRITTEN RULE. Anyone who keeps echoing this falsehood (and I’ve noticed that there are certainly more than just Torii Hunter) is being willfully ignorant.
Delgado from the Marlins to the Mets
LoDuca too. And Leiter.
LoDuca too. And Leiter.
Delgado from the Marlins to the Mets
Jeff Francoeur from the Braves to the Mets (best trade ever)
Johnny Estrada from the Phillies to the Braves
Scott Olsen from the Marlins to the Nationals
Jeff Francoeur from the Braves to the Mets (best trade ever)
Johnny Estrada from the Phillies to the Braves
Scott Olsen from the Marlins to the Nationals
torii hunter broke the unwritten rule by accusing others of breaking the unwritten rule. they really should write this stuff down.
let’s all freak out over 1 player’s opinion
Wahhhhh….the Yankees are upset that another team got a player that they wanted. Now they know how the rest of the baseball world feels every time they go on a spending spree and buy up the best free agents.
Being butthurt because two of your division rivals helped each other and it didn’t benefit your team isn’t an unwritten rule, Torii.
Haha I think that’s exactly what he meant.
Haha I think that’s exactly what he meant.
Its only an unwritten rule if the player is going to be around for a few seasons and will have a large impact on the divisional races. Texas has the AL West without Lee so the addition isn’t a slight to the Angels or Oakland. It doesn’t have long standing effects as Lee will most likely be out of the division next season.
Man, Torii Hunter is stupid. The guy has an opinion on everything and seems to have no idea what he’s talking about most of the time.
Which is why he is a millionare and you are not.
It’s an unwritten rule if you’re trading to the division leader while you’re still in striking distance or if the player will be under team control for more than half a season, but at this point the Mariners have no shot at winning the west.
Yes, but it could end up really blowing up in the Rangers’ face. If Smoak reaches his potential, he’s under Mariner control for a long time, and that spells bad news for the Rangers, and of course, for Torii Hunter’s Angels. Hunter’s just ticked that two of his division rivals helped each other out and the Angels are still sinking without a decent 1B.
Yes, but it could end up really blowing up in the Rangers’ face. If Smoak reaches his potential, he’s under Mariner control for a long time, and that spells bad news for the Rangers, and of course, for Torii Hunter’s Angels. Hunter’s just ticked that two of his division rivals helped each other out and the Angels are still sinking without a decent 1B.
So let me get this straight. The Yanks thought a “deal was done” but thought the M’s were stalling because they were asking for a player the Yanks didn’t want to part with? Sounds to me like a deal wasn’t done. The Yanks were trying to shop a player who has an injury that could potentially linger for a long time. How come nobody’s complaining about the ethics surrounding that? As for the timing and Jack “using” the Yanks for a better deal, that’s why there’s a trade deadline. So you can let things develop and hopefully let better offers come along. There were a handful of players Jack targeted and the Rangers offered one of them up, plain and simple. Just because the Yankees didn’t get who they wanted for once, doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy. I don’t think we’re terribly worried if the Yanks don’t want to trade with us again.
How is it not ethical? They didn’t hide the injury. It’s an ankle sprain; not like he’s a pitcher with a messed up shoulder or elbow.
“Yankees officials went to bed after Thursday night’s game believing a deal had been finalized with the Mariners for Lee, pending acceptance of the physical reports on Yankees prospects Jesus Montero, David Adams and Zach McAllister.”
Operative words, “pending acceptance” In other words, deal not done. It wasn’t until the physical reports that the Mariners knew of Adams ankle injury. That to me is unethical.
Typical Yankees. Rub it everyone’s faces when they get who they want, and cry like babies when they don’t. Hate to tell it to you, there are 29 other teams in this league.
“Yankees officials went to bed after Thursday night’s game believing a deal had been finalized with the Mariners for Lee, pending acceptance of the physical reports on Yankees prospects Jesus Montero, David Adams and Zach McAllister.”
Operative words, “pending acceptance” In other words, deal not done. It wasn’t until the physical reports that the Mariners knew of Adams ankle injury. That to me is unethical.
Typical Yankees. Rub it everyone’s faces when they get who they want, and cry like babies when they don’t. Hate to tell it to you, there are 29 other teams in this league.
If Babe Ruth can be traded within a division, Torii Hunter can shut his pie hole.
Babe Ruth was actually sold which is even worse.
Babe Ruth was actually sold which is even worse.
People are against trading withing the division because of Ruth’s success in New York and the century of shame it brought onto the city of Boston. Sure, it is certainly a worst case scenario that you might trade the most popular athlete in the history of sports to your divisional rival, thus cementing their status as the most popular and valuable sports franchise in the world… but hey, you never know. That’s why you don’t trade within your division. Unless his name is Jeff Francoeur.
Shouldn’t they just be against making stupid trades? Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen wasn’t any less dumb because of the league change.
Shouldn’t they just be against making stupid trades? Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen wasn’t any less dumb because of the league change.
People are against trading withing the division because of Ruth’s success in New York and the century of shame it brought onto the city of Boston. Sure, it is certainly a worst case scenario that you might trade the most popular athlete in the history of sports to your divisional rival, thus cementing their status as the most popular and valuable sports franchise in the world… but hey, you never know. That’s why you don’t trade within your division. Unless his name is Jeff Francoeur.
Desmond Jennings for Cliff Lee. Now we know why he isn’t a Ray.
There should be a written rule that Torii Hunter keep his mouth shut.
I got it. Everytime Torii opens his mouth, the Angels forfeit a draft pick!
No? Not a good enough punishment?
They would run out of draft picks.
There should be a written rule that Torii Hunter keep his mouth shut.
That Sherman story is quite funny. The mariners just pulled a typical Scott Boras maneuver by shopping around the best offer they had available to them. So now the Yanks get FA’s (Tex last recall) the same way from having best deals shopped to them and now it’s not ok to have one they made shopped around? How ironic George Sherman.
That Sherman story is quite funny. The mariners just pulled a typical Scott Boras maneuver by shopping around the best offer they had available to them. So now the Yanks get FA’s (Tex last recall) the same way from having best deals shopped to them and now it’s not ok to have one they made shopped around? How ironic George Sherman.
Haren is never gonna get dealt is seems.
Based on what? Their GM has been on the job ten minutes. How fast do you expect him to be able to trade the team’s second most valuable commodity, let alone actually do it?
I just meant with all the rumors that have been circulating the past year or so. His name constantly brought up.
Based on what? Their GM has been on the job ten minutes. How fast do you expect him to be able to trade the team’s second most valuable commodity, let alone actually do it?
Haren has 2 more years plus an option. He will be dealt eventually. He is owed about $30 million which is reasonable for 2 + years of a guy like him, but I think a lot of teams are wary of taking on payroll right now.
I think the Reds would be a good fit for Haren, a rotation of Haren, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Chapman would be pretty nasty.
You think they could get Haren without trading one of those guys? I don’t think Bailey, Wood, etc. are enough for the Diamondbacks.
I think Alonso or Fransisco, Frazier, AA prospect, and Bailey would be sufficient for Haren
I disagree.
I was looking at the Reds top prospects and their top talent is largely position players. They only have a couple pitchers in their top 20 prospects, and most of their names are Chapman and Leake. I guess they don’t really line up if the D-backs are looking for young, controllable, quality arms. Yonder Alonso is a good trade piece, he is blocked by Votto at first base.
Homer Bailey sucks. He has no trade value.
Alonso isn’t that good, though. He was drafted high, but he has no defensive value, troublesome platoon splits, and hasn’t hit for power at the upper levels at all, when that was supposed to be his calling card. Francisco has no defensive home and swings at everything. Frazier has no defensive home and hasn’t hit. Mesoraco is hitting for the first time since being drafted. There’s no reason for the Diamondbacks to trade Haren to the Reds without getting one of the young big league starters.
I think Alonso or Fransisco, Frazier, AA prospect, and Bailey would be sufficient for Haren
You think they could get Haren without trading one of those guys? I don’t think Bailey, Wood, etc. are enough for the Diamondbacks.
Agreed, though I think he’d look better in Phillies’ red :)He’s owed 12.75m for each of the next two seasons, with a 15.5m option for 2013 (3.5m buyout). Even with his numbers dropping a bit this year, that’s a very reasonable price.
Agreed, though I think he’d look better in Phillies’ red :)He’s owed 12.75m for each of the next two seasons, with a 15.5m option for 2013 (3.5m buyout). Even with his numbers dropping a bit this year, that’s a very reasonable price.
Haren has 2 more years plus an option. He will be dealt eventually. He is owed about $30 million which is reasonable for 2 + years of a guy like him, but I think a lot of teams are wary of taking on payroll right now.
I think the Reds would be a good fit for Haren, a rotation of Haren, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Chapman would be pretty nasty.
Haren is never gonna get dealt is seems.
Alright, looking at the prospects that Seattle got for Lee… Smoak is a stud, and Beaven is just going to be a 3rd starter at best… and the other two are garbage…
Lueke can be a nice piece in the pen. He is running like a 12+ K rate. The guy misses bats and has a good idea where the ball is going. He’ll probably see the bigs this year since the Mariners bullpen is in shambles.
Lueke can be a nice piece in the pen. He is running like a 12+ K rate. The guy misses bats and has a good idea where the ball is going. He’ll probably see the bigs this year since the Mariners bullpen is in shambles.
Leuke looks nasty! Did you look at his stats? He has a career 1.176 whip with 11.4 SO/9. He has 62 SO in 38.1 IP in 2010, which is 14.9 SO/9. He also has 12 saves. He is 25 though, which is kind of old for a AA player.
Lawson is OPSing .809 in AA. He has the highest OPS of all of Frisco’s regular position players in 2010. He is 24, which is also kind of old.
Beavan is having a decent year in AA and is only 21, but he has averaged only 5.2 SO/9 over his minor league career. He doesn’t walk a lot of batters, he is averaging 1.0 BB/9 in 2010 and 1.4 for his career. I find him the least interesting prospect in the bunch.
Yes, I should have worded that a little differently…
I was just judging them by their age, and the fact that they’re at fairly low levels.
Also based on the fact that Baseball America did not place Lawson or Leuke in Texas’ top 30 prospects list, while Beavan is at No.17…
It pretty much says he threw hard in high school, and he’s had some trouble with velocity lately, but he’s starting to regain some… that, coupled with his rankin and his success this year, is why I regard him 2nd only to Smoak…
Yes, I should have worded that a little differently…
I was just judging them by their age, and the fact that they’re at fairly low levels.
Also based on the fact that Baseball America did not place Lawson or Leuke in Texas’ top 30 prospects list, while Beavan is at No.17…
It pretty much says he threw hard in high school, and he’s had some trouble with velocity lately, but he’s starting to regain some… that, coupled with his rankin and his success this year, is why I regard him 2nd only to Smoak…
Leuke looks nasty! Did you look at his stats? He has a career 1.176 whip with 11.4 SO/9. He has 62 SO in 38.1 IP in 2010, which is 14.9 SO/9. He also has 12 saves. He is 25 though, which is kind of old for a AA player.
Lawson is OPSing .809 in AA. He has the highest OPS of all of Frisco’s regular position players in 2010. He is 24, which is also kind of old.
Beavan is having a decent year in AA and is only 21, but he has averaged only 5.2 SO/9 over his minor league career. He doesn’t walk a lot of batters, he is averaging 1.0 BB/9 in 2010 and 1.4 for his career. I find him the least interesting prospect in the bunch.
Bold words, dude. Bold words. Don’t forget how young Beavan still is, he’s got plenty of time to grow and develop, and Seattle’s pitching depth can allow them to be extremely patient with him if necessary. Like these other guys said, Lueke’s ceiling isn’t high, but he could always turn out to be a Mike Adams-type of pitcher who experiences success as a middle reliever. I wouldn’t be shocked if Lueke were a September call-up. Lawson’s numbers are good, but given his age, it’s more than likely he’ll be a utility guy if he makes the bigs. As a Mariners fan, that’s totally fine with me because Seattle is lacking a defensive-minded utility guy who can swing the stick from time to time.
It may not be the prettiest package of prospects ever acquired, but I’m more than happy with the return at this point.
Alright, looking at the prospects that Seattle got for Lee… Smoak is a stud, and Beaven is just going to be a 3rd starter at best… and the other two are garbage…
IMO reds and marlins match up well for a trade on Nolasco. Reds have plenty of high prospects in aaa that are major league ready including Miami product Alonso.
Is Nolasco much of an improvement over their current pitchers? I don’t see the difference being worth a top prospect like Alonso.
The Marlins have a better first base prospect who’s closer to being ready in Logan Morrison.
Jack breaking that “unwritten rule” by trading within the division is a master stroke for the long term. The Rangers will never re-sign Lee and the Mariners get to weaken a rival’s farm system by taking their best young hitter away.
Big gamble by Jon Daniels. At least if he goes to the WS he can say it was worth it when Smoak is beating up his old team for the next 6 years. I honestly am rooting for Texas from here on out. I never have hated them as much as the Angels or A’s.
POSSIBLE DEAL
Jays scouts have been watching the Milwaukee Brewers farm system. The Brewers, likewise, have been scouting the Jays system and like some of the Jay’s young arms in the minors. Could general manager Alex Anthopoulos be chasing former first-round pick Brett Lawrie, the Canadian catcher who is hitting .293 at double-A Huntsville with 22 doubles, 11 triples, six homers and 41 RBIs in 86 games?
interesting I wonder can Lawrie play 3rd?
I don’t think he is good defensively at any position. He’s got a great bad but acquiring him would somewhat puzzle me as Jays have tons of guys that are great at hitting but they aren’t that good defensively. Snider is much improved but he’s still not great at defense, nor is Arencibia, Wallace, Lind.
Also, shouldn’t we be targeting a lead-off type player who can get on base and steal but we really lack a player like that in our farm. Wilson is good but his bat sucks and he strikes out too many times.
I’m not sure what we can give up for Lawrie but it has to be something good since he is their top prospect. Maybe something like Stewart + Cooper + C-level prospect?
Ben Sheets:
5/8 – 6.1 IP, 2ER
5/13 – 6.0, 1ER
5/18 – 6.2, 4ER
5/23 – 6.0, 0ER
5/28 – 7.0, 3ER
6/2 – 6.0, 4ER
6/7 – 6.0, 3ER
6/12 – 6.0, 3ER
6/19 – 7.0, 4ER
6/25 – 6.0, 4ER
6/30 – 6.0, 3ER
7/05 – 7.1, 3ER
7/10 – 6.0, 0ER
If he pitches for the Yankees, he’s probably 9-2 during that stretch. How much trade value would he have then? I could see Beane sending Sheets to the Reds, White Sox, Mets, Philly, San Diego, St. Louis., Detroit… or any contending team who loses a starter in the next 3 weeks.