The Red Sox are seven games out in the wild card, with a 6.3% chance at the playoffs according to Baseball Prospectus. However, keep in mind that BP's report is not aware of the team's injuries. Still, GM Theo Epstein told Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe, "It's not all about the math." The Red Sox aren't quitting on the season, despite trading Manny Delcarmen yesterday.
According to Cafardo, the Red Sox were close to a deal for Blue Jays first baseman Lyle Overbay. Overbay cleared waivers several weeks ago, but is now dealing with post-concussion symptoms.
In offseason-related news, Cafardo says the Sox "have at least talked to Victor Martinez about a two-year offer." Boston's catcher is hitting .309/.350/.505 since May 1st and has reportedly shown improved defense. He's earning $7.7MM this year, and I doubt he'd forgo free agency without a raise. He's probably looking for more than two years, too.
I highly doubt anything gets worked out before the off-season. The Red Sox will nickel and dime him until he reaches FA, then most likely lose him to a team that overbids for him
Re-signing V-Mart would be a terrible move. Almost every Sox pitcher spends the entire game shaking him off and he has one of the worst arms I’ve ever seen on a catcher.
If there isn’t a viable catching option on the free agent market, Theo needs to explore a trade; he can center (hahaha, pun-in-waiting) that trade around Ellsbury. Salty is not the answer to a team in deserperate need of a C who can throw people out; the guy can barely throw back to the mound.
Theo has a lot of work to do this Winter and I can only hope he is over his phase of signing has-beens (not talking about V-Mart here, just look at the last 3 rosters and you’ll know what I mean)….
I think the problem is the lack of depth at the catching position. There’s no obvious choice to replace VMart. Good catchers are just so hard to come by.
Ideally, the Sox could try to acquire Kurt Suzuki. He just inked an extension with Oakland that will pay him approximately 16m over the next 4 years, however, so he will not come cheap. Suzuki has raked at Fenway park over his short ML career. In 28 games, he has a line of .349/.385/.523 with an OPS of .908. I’m not familiar with the A’s minor league system so I don’t know what it would take to get him.
Other than Suzuki, the Sox can try to trade for Mike Napoli. Given his overall power numbers, he may cost even more than Suzuki.
Theo definitely has his work cut out for him. He essentially has to revamp the BP, sign/trade for a 3B (or 1B), DH, LF, C, & possibly CF. I can almost guarantee Werth will be high on their list for LF.
They almost have to resign Beltre. It’s a scary thought, given his career inconsistencies, but I can’t see any other option. I’m guessing he’ll be looking for at least a 3 year deal at 12m per year. I just don’t see the Sox giving up any prospects for a 3B. They will not want to prevent themselves from being a player for AGon if he’s made available at next years deadline.
Why does everybody assume Oakland is destined to hand Suzuki over to the Sox? I don’t get it. I know there were those rumors a while ago but I think it’s mostly wishful thinking. Oakland has shown sparks of potential this year and if they keep this current team together with minor adjustments they could very well contend next season. There’s no reason for them to give Suzuki away, especially not with such a (relatively) cheap extension.
I never said they would “hand” him over to the Sox. I acknowledged he would be costly,but do you think the A’s are going to be in the playoffs any time soon? If they keep this team together, they will be 15.5 games back again. They have great pitching..that’s it. If they can address 2-3 needs in a deal involving one player, they should do it.
Why would Oakland give up Suzuki? Like you said he is very cheap @ 4 Mil per. Just go out and work a deal for Napoli and have him split time with Salty or Tek.
You’re probably right. I just think that the A’s would at least entertain offers. A’s are tough to work with because they are pretty much set with pitching.
That being said, I would not mind acquiring Napoli but I think the Angels are going to ask a lot for him as well. Also, Tek better not split any time with anyone next year. I’m hoping the only time he splits is with Francona & the rest of the coaching staff.
Wheres King Carlos at?
Delgado? With half of the rest of the team . . . on the DL.
On the 7 day minor league dl last I heard….. what a waste… I would have taken that money if they where just gonna flush it down the toilet
thx.. hip injury or?
The Sox need to resign either Vmart or Beltre and then get a real catcher.
Like who?
Ok, lets hear all the reports of how Victor loves Boston, always a huge fan of the Sox, and how he’ll give them a hometown discount and blah blah blah, then he’ll sign elsewhere for more money and the Boston media/fans can trash on him.
I’d like to hear examples of when this happened.
Johnny Damon.
Let’s see: Nomar, OCab, Derek Lowe, Mo Vaughn, etc… The fron office always leaks out stuff about ex-players.
Those are all poor examples. Nomar was traded, he was not wanted on the team any more. They also ended negotiations with Derek Lowe & Orlando Cabrera. I don’t ever remember anything negative coming out about Derek Lowe, in fact they tried to re-acquire him shortly after he left. Orlando Cabrera has a history of clubhouse turmoil and the Sox had medical questions about him. He was a mid-season acquisition whom they had no intentions of re-signing.
Mo Vaughn had many run-ins with the law his last year in Boston. He, like Nomar, ran himself out of town. Many people, including those on the Angels, questioned his leadership and ability to mesh in the clubhouse.
And to respond to Devern_Hansack – Johnny Damon is the only “solid” case I can see. In the Sox defense, Damon was the voice of the clubhouse when it came to the Yanks/Sox rivalry. He was not shy about his feelings (however fake they were) about the Yanks. The Sox offered him a solid contract, more than most expected they would, and he declined. While no one can blame him for following the money, he set aside the Sox like dirty laundry.
My point is, a few players have left Boston on bad terms but they are not at all the norm. Boston has received plenty of hometown discounts in the past. Like everywhere else, there have been plenty of players that hated playing there. There have also been plenty that loved it. I just don’t know of any that were assumed to stay in Boston only to jet to another team, other than Damon.
The Red Sox front office is too concerned over its perception with the fans hence they leak info to make themselves look better. It doesn’t matter if they were traded or gone on free agency or how they left. They said Derek Lowe spent too many nights out late, they said O-Cab was a clubhouse cancer, never mind the fact they don’t win the WS without him. They had a PI tail Vaughn.
That’s your opinion. I’ve yet to see any formidable examples. Derek Lowe was known as a partier long before he left the team. Orlando Cabrera was brought in as a half-year rental, nothing more. Also, it wasn’t the first time Cabrera’s team chemistry and character were questioned. And Mo Vaughn was constantly in trouble with the law, including multiple traffic incidents. He’s not a saint, and I don’t blame any team for wanting to insure their multi-million dollar investment is not in jeopardy. You should also remember that Mo Vaughn played for a different front office.
Hate from Red Sox fans? Recently it’s been Bay, Manny (who “quit” but hit .347/.473/.587 in July), Nomar, and Damon.
This offseason it will be VMart and Beltre to the list. The following year it will be Papelbon. Throw some Manny Delcarmen in there too, once “closer of the future” now “Yeah I told you he was overrated”
These guys are the best at their position while with the Sox, but once they hit FA and dont sign for 3yrs/40m then they were overrated.
Jason Bay was injured when he left the Sox. The Sox saw him as a defensive liability and put a price tag on him as a DH. You can not fault them for not resigning him, and it looks like it was a good decision.
If you really follow the Boston media like you say you do, you’d know there’s A LOT more to the Manny story than you’re portraying. He’s been driven out of two cities now, how much more evidence do you need?
Nomar refused to play. He sat on the bench and isolated himself from the clubhouse. He made it known he wanted out and he wanted to play on the west coast. If anything, the Red Sox treated him well by granting his wish.
I already spoke about Damon, feel free to read it. He is the only “good” example but I’d be willing to bet he would’ve gotten the same reaction from any club.
You keep alluding to MDC in other posts, but you forget that the “Closer of the Future” tag came from Peter Gammons, not the Red Sox. He’s been awful this year and it’s been no secret that the Sox have been shopping him all year. Trading him was not a shocker, don’t act like it was.
V-Mart will be priced as a DH for any contract longer than 2 years. You’re probably right, the Sox won’t resign him, but Theo will prove to be smarter than another GM once again. VMart is the best option out there, but he’s already below league average defensively..imagine how he’ll be in a couple years.
Beltre is going to ask for the moon. He has a history of performing well during contract years and cashing in on huge paydays, only to regress for the duration of the contract. How can you blame anyone for not over-extending their budget for him?
The Sox aren’t happy with Papelbon and the yearly negotiations with him. They have been seasoning Bard for a couple years now to replace him. It will be no surprise when the Sox let him go. I don’t see how you can blame them for that too.
First of all, Peter Gammons = Spokesperson for the Red Sox
Second of all, where did I talk about the Red Sox as an organization? I’m talking about the fans.
So because Gammons (shocker) said the Red Sox doctors said he’s injured that means hes injured? The same doctors who have been dealing with Jacoby and Pedroia? LOL, then yeah- their opinion about Bay must be 100% accurate right?
My bad, thought you were talking about the organizations treatment of players.
I guess I haven’t been exposed to the type of fans you are referring to. I haven’t heard any praise for MDC, everyone I talk to is split on resigning VMart, and NO ONE I talked to wanted Manny in a Red Sox uniform any longer. Everyone I talked to was sick of Nomar. Like I said, the only one I can see genuine resentment towards was Damon.
V-Mart really shouldn’t get more than 3 years/$30MM no matter what crazy team signs him as a 1B/DH/Back-Up catcher. But if he wants to re-sign with the Sox and it isn’t just about money I wouldn’t go beyond his current rate and give him something like 2 years/$16MM.
Victor’s response to this hilarious penny-pinching: “Have fun with Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Kevin Cash.”
Manny Delcarmen will be a great fit with the Rockies. I don’t understand why they trade relievers who have upside in the future and then say they are still in it.
We’ve been told about his upside since he came up to the big club. He shows flashes, but in the last two years his velocity and control have been slowly disappearing. Definitely on the downward swing. I wouldnt be surprised to see him out of the league within 3 years.
That’s harsh.
I say he puts up lights out numbers for the Rockies.
I know this is a bit off topic for how this thread is going but it is along the lines of the Red Sox offseason. I wonder if the Sox would entertain trading Drew this offseason. His performance against lefties has suffered this year (.580 OPSvsLHP) and I get the feeling he is not seen as a durable player. He does however still hit righties (.887 OPSvsRHP) and play an excellent corner outfield. Would Theo feel confortable with Kalish everyday in RF next year given his struggles in the bigs this year but considering his impressive skillset?
Whats been bouncing around in my head is a near exactly even money deal of Drew for Kawakami and McLouth as all three have one year left of a total of roughly 14MM on either side. Kawakami would provide a solid #4/5 starter depth or quality relief innings which may make Theo more confortable in trading younger guys like Doubront and Bowden as pieces in a deal for a catcher or Fielder. McLouth is barely a fringe starter anymore but he would be a healthy body off the bench with speed, patience, a bit of pop and acceptable defense in LF/CF. Drew would be a platoon partner for Diaz in LF or in RF if Wren finds another starting LFer and moves Heyward to CF.
At all plausable?
Nope. Theo loves Drew. Wouldn’t surpise me to see him get an extension.
From a Boston fan: LOLDrew has accumulated 11.2 WAR from 2008-2010. Even if he can’t hit lefties anymore, the Sox would be better off using Hall or some other righty hitter (perhaps McDonald or Dye) as a platoon-mate for Drew. Drew is also one of the best outfielders in the game in regards to fielding.Why would Theo deal one of the best all-around right fielders in the game for Nate McLouth’s negative1.3 WAR and bullpen fodder like Kawakami?
Listen, Drew sucks. I am sick of these stat heads sticking up for him. His career high for RBI with Boston is 68. Career high for runs 84. But, that being said, this trade proposal is ridiculous.
Listen, Drew doesn’t suck. I am sick of people making fun of stat heads, then using stats that are dependent on their teammates’ performance to judge a player.
You watch games don’t you? What do you see? I see a guy who plays a good rf but is so overrated offensively that it isn’t even funny.
I’m sorry, but if you can’t OPS .600 in roughly a third of your PA (rate at which you see lefties) the you are not in the conversation for best at a corner OF spot. He isn’t even excellent against righties just a good high .800 OPS and that isn’t enought to keep his total OPS over .800.
Yes McLouth has fallen off a cliff in terms of his BA but he has other skills and Kawakami is much better than just bulpen fodder.
Thats 127 ABs v LHP this year,
Last year in 114 AB his OPS was .863, year before .926 in 74AB, and .638 in 116 AB.
See how small sample sizes work?
Bowden and Doubront dont have much trade value. Especially not for Prince Fielder.
Doubront does and he would only be part of the MLB ready portion of the trade.
He’s not as good as people make him out to be. He isn’t a starter and he isn’t a hard throwing reliever. At best he’s pretty much just a low 90’s middle reliever or number 5 starter.
Where did you come up with the idea that “he isn’t a starter”? He is not in the bullpen right now because he wasn’t good enough to start. He’s in the bullpen because they needed help in the bullpen BADLY and already had 6 starters. He has the stuff to be a good middle-of-the-rotation starter, and if he can learn to command his curve consistently he could be a decent #2 on a lot of pitching staffs.
I don’t see it. Sorry. I don’t think he could bring back much in return.
Maybe the Red Sox could pry Chris Snyder away from the Pirates. He can hit, call a game, throw runners out, and unlike Salty, can throw back to the pitcher too.
Except they could have had Snyder already and passed on him.
That was before he proved he was healthy (he had lingering back problems). I’m sure the Red Sox wouldn’t mind a healthy Chris Snyder.
Sure, let’s trade for a catcher with a history of back problems. Didn’t they already have dl issues this year?
So once a player is injured, they’re forever tainted? V-Mart is not worth the money he’ll make since he’s only a catcher on paper. Maybe the Red Sox shouldn’t have given up on Kottaras.
Once a player gets injured you don’t think MLB front offices pay attention to that? Are you serious? they told Jason Bay he needed surgery for a knee he was having no problems with. Oh, by the way, how’s that working out for you? And who is making the argument that the Sox should resign V-Mart? I for one would love to see them go out and get a better catcher, but who?
Yes, MLB front offices do pay attention to injuries–but they also pay attention to recoveries. It’s not as if Snyder ignored the injury and is still dealing with it; he had surgery, rehabbed, and is healthy again.I’m not claiming that you or anyone else is saying the Red Sox should re-sign V-Mart, I’m merely agreeing he shouldn’t be re-signed, and Snyder might be a good low-cost alternative.
Snyder might be the alternative but I just don’t see them going after him after they already turned him down once.
I’m just curious–link me to the story about when they turned him down…
blog.prorumors.com/2010/07/rumors/arizona-diamondb…
They won’t let me link it here but i just cut and pasted the gist:
Peter Gammon of the MLB Network said (via Twitter), “Arizona called Friday trying to get Red Sox to take Chris Snyder.”
When was that from (date)?
Edit: Nevermind, I found it myself. That “article” has one line about Snyder. It doesn’t say anything about the Red Sox rejecting a trade, or even being offered one. Essentially, I don’t buy the whole, “The Red Sox already passed on him.” Maybe the D’backs asking price was too high at the time, or maybe the Red Sox wanted to see if V-Mart could actually handle the catcher duties, or maybe they wanted to wait until the off-season to actually pursue a catcher.
It tells you that A: The D-Backs offered Snyder to Boston so a trade was offered. The asking price might have been too high but a trade was offered.
B: They turned it down otherwise they would have him.
The point is that the provided article is very sparsely sprinkled with details. My guess is that the D’backs probably asked for too much talent in return or that the Red Sox didn’t want to assume all of Snyder’s salary.
Regardless, Snyder is with a different organization, so the negotiation process could be different. One thing that can be taken away from the article is that the Red Sox have been interested in Snyder at various points, and couldn’t swing a deal.
It’s a Twitter post. 150 characters or less. Of course it doesn’t go into detail. Do you think that $4 Mil is a lot for the Sox assuming AZ wanted the Sox to take on all the contract? They gave that to Scutaro. Heck, I think they might still be paying Lugo at least that much. I don’t see him leaving Pittsburgh either.
I was referring to the corresponding “article.”
Snyder is making $4.75 mil this season, and $5.75 mil next season. That would have been a lot to pay for a backup catcher this season (V-Mart at C, Youk at 1B, Beltre at 3B, and Papi at DH this season), and would have also prevented the Red Sox from seeking Kurt Suzuki in the off-season (since they seem to want him the most). Therefore, it is viable that the Red Sox asked the D’backs to kick along some money and were rejected.
Suzuki is not going anywhere. I don’t know why his name is popping up here. You might as well say that the Sox have their eyes on Pujols as well. Plus the Sox have already shown they will pay $5 Mil for a backup catcher. They are doing so right now. In Suzuki, you have a great young catcher on the cheap for the next 4 years. It makes no sense of Oakland to trade him unless you are offering some top young talent in return, which the Sox have shown great reluctance to do.
That’s because we’re talking about the Athletics. Considering Suzuki is signed to an attractive contract, the A’s would get that much more talent in return. Whether the Red Sox are willing to surrender that is fodder for the off-season.
How’s that working out? Last I knew, Bay had 6 HR’s through 348 plate appearances. I think Theo won again.
It wasn’t a trade. So theo didn’t win anything, the mets just offered more money to Bay then the Sox did.
Yes he did. He pulled the 4 yr/60m offer when injury concerns came up. The popular decision would’ve been to sign him anyways. He let him go, and he’s clearly not the same player. Citi Field is not a hitters park, but it shouldn’t affect a player as much as it apparently affected Bay. The only conclusion is that the Red Sox were right about his bad knees.
“The only conclusion is that the Red Sox were right about his bad knees. ”
That’s NOT the only conclusion. Many FAs struggle in their first year with a new team, David Wright his power stroke in his first year at Citi Field- does he have bad knees too?
Career years aside, what’re some examples of players that went from hitting a HR every 14.8 ABs to a HR every 58 ABs when they switched teams? Or even remotely close to that big drop off.
I could see the Sox going after John Buck in the offseason..
Good, they can have him. I was disappointed that he wasn’t traded.
What about signing John Buck? He is not a bad option. He is respectable defensively and handled a young Jays staff admirably. Unfortunately, in addition to being an all-star, he will also be a type A free-agent, so it will cost a pick. However, it could be worth it, and the sox will probably be gaining at least one pick if they only offer v-mart arb.
John buck is a type B free agent. i agree with everything else though
Ya, you are absolutely correct. I was thinking of Frasor’s unfortunate type A status.
He’s a Type B and would have to absolutely light it up to get Type A in a month. But he could be a good option. He’s not a guy that will get on base much but he calls good games and plays solid defensively. His offense can be seen in production and the amount of HR/RBI he produces and he could do very well in Fenway Park.
Depending on the amount of catchers available in the off-season, Boston could have some serious interest in Buck.
He’s also playing for Toronto and just like Halladay I bet you they would jack up the price to trade in-division.
…except that he could be a FA come season’s end, so they could just sign him this summer. The Jays want the draft pick because they have JPA slotted in as the starting catcher next season.
“give him something like 2 years/$16MM”—————There’s maybe a half-doz quality FA available who are position players, thats it. The idea that one of those 6 would do a 2-year deal is laughable. The RS are going to have to look carefully at the arbitration lists and be prepared to deal prospects because the FA’s just are not good value. Dunn for eg. might get 60mil and Crawford 100. Are those guys worth that?
John Miller WBZ asked VMart the $$$ question. He gave a polite answer but wasn’t happy about it, starting with a flat NO (to the 2-year part)!
I honestly feel bad for whoever ends up paying Crawford. The guy is great, right now. His game is built around speed. Athletes like himself are subject to early regressions. Anything longer than a 3 year deal is a HUGE gamble IMO.
Depending on what happens with Papi and Beltre, If the Sox resign Victor it will probably be to serve as a DH/1B with occasional starts at C. They’ll def explore offseason trades for a young C like Ianetta, Martin, Montero, Napoli or Snyder but there’s also a decent chance that Salty will get a shot at starting C next season.