After breaking off extension talks and gauging interest in their second baseman, the Marlins now plan to trade Dan Uggla, writes Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Marlins are "down the road" in discussions with a few teams and could make a deal within the next week, according to Rosenthal's source. Rosenthal identifies the Nationals, Tigers, Braves, and Blue Jays as potential suitors who are in on the 30-year-old.
When Rosenthal ran down the list of teams who could have interest in Uggla, he noted that not every club would view the Marlin as a second baseman. Many teams with question marks at third base are considering making a play for Uggla. Meanwhile, Rosenthal indicates the Cubs and Angels are among the teams who don't have interest in acquiring Uggla, despite having a need for offense.
Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post believes that Uggla and the Marlins could still agree on an extension, but concedes that the two sides are currently "very bitter at each other." He expects Florida to actively shop Uggla at this week's GM meetings, though he suggests the team will be demanding a significant return (all Twitter links).
I’m hoping if he comes to The Blue Jays it’s at 3B. I think he would be a lot more suitable there.
Possibly…But I fear that if he can’t play 2B defensively, how much better will he do at 3B?
With that said here are the trade ideas that I have in mind…
Blue Jays: Carlos Perez/Brad Emaus/Danny Farquahar
Tigers: Brayan Villareal/Ryan Perry/Fernando Martinez
Nationals: Brad Peacock/Derek Norris
Twins: Ben Revere/Anthony Slama
Braves: Brett Oberholtzer/Randall Delgado/Jordan Schaefer
Angels: Fabio Martinez Mesa/Hank Conger
Cubs: Brett Jackson/Hak Ju Lee
Rockies: Esmil Rogers/Christian Friedrich/Charlie Blackmon
Red Sox: Casey Kelly/Oscar Tejeda
Cardinals: Niko Vasquez/D’Marcus Ingram/Jason Motte
i sincerely doubt the red sox give up Kelly.
Uggla’s a Type A and Kelly is very overrated. With that said, their still needs to be one top prospect or Major League piece in any deal.
I agree Uggla is underrated too.
Agreed. Casey Kelly alone is worth more than Revere + Slama. I think there’s a pretty wide range of value among all of those packages. I highly doubt the Cubs are interested in moving Jackson anywhere either.
I think he’d at least be a bit sounder at 3B. I don’t know that him coming to Toronto is a great idea regardless.
Delgado is just a shade less untouchable for the Braves than Teheran is. We’re not giving him up for someone who may just be a one-year rental.
I doubt the Marlins would want Schafer and I don’t blame them. I would think that Mycal Jones or Cody Johnson would be better options. You’re dead on with Oberholtzer and Delgado though.
Thanks.
Jones would be interesting. They already have Ozzie Martinez who is blocked. But I guess you assume Jones is an OF?
no, mycal jones is an infielder whom I believe can play 2nd, ss and 3rd. I don’t know much about the Marlins farm system so I don’t really know who is blocking who
Well I thought he was a 3B/SS as well but they could use him at 3B soon. Just not SS which he told me he wants to play at the Major League level.
padres Simon castro aaron poreda
I like Uggla, but not sure he is worth trading for to make a 1B, for the Nats. I guess Espinosa could be part of the deal, and play him at 2B. But that doesn’t make sense to me.
He’s a great fit in San Francisco and is very good friends with Cody Ross.
See I personally think he is not a great fit, based on what it will take to get him. He’s a free agent after 2011, so we’d be giving 2-3 of our best prospects away for 1 year of Uggla, with the hope they can re-sign him after, and we may not have the money to do so. If we get him, I’d like to wait until hes a free agent and make a play if we have the funds
Plus, I don’t like his defense and I don’t want to lose any of our good prospects. We won last year and we still have Freddy for a year.
Ugla is no use to us until next year when fredy won’t be there.
I wonder if he could be a corner outfield option for the Tigers….
Braves in LF? I don’t know about the defense, but I’d sure love the bat. Would fit great behind McCann and in front of Freeman. Maybe they could take McLouth off our hands for him?(just kidding) But they seem to have no outfield; Maybin and Ross traded, Coughland’s a 3B now. Mike Stanton seems to be the only lock.
Morrison and Stanton in the outfield is a pretty good start.
Thank god.
Prado plays the outfield almost every year in winter leagues. i’d be willing to bet he goes to left if the braves can pull this off. it’s obviously going to cost one of those top pitching prospects that the braves have (teheran, vizcaino, delgado, minor, beachy). as a braves fan, it’ll be hard seeing one of those guys face us 3-4 times per year, but uggla would fill a big hole that the braves have had for ages.
2nd base is more of an elite defensive position than LF. We need better defense on our terrible infield. Prado would stay put, Uggla would go to LF. And I don’t think it would take a top prospect, but a package of mid level prospects. Beachy is a nice starting point, considering they want a better bullpen.
there’s no way that a few mid-level prospects would get uggla. the marlins could just keep him and pick up 2 draft picks next year. if it’s beachy, minor, delgado, or vizcaino, there’ll need to be another top 10-20 prospect and a throw in. uggla will not come cheap. i’d bet my life on it.
bobby spoke often last year about prado’s versatility saying that he could play 1st, 2nd, 3rd, lf, or rf. uggla has never played outfield. i’d also bet my life that prado goes to left. however,the braves could shop him for a cost-controlled outfielder. i love prado and his grit, but he probably is at peak value right now.
Prado would stay at second, Uggla would temporarily move to the OF, and then move to third when Chipper retires or his body falls apart again.
I think Prado would move to 3rd before Uggla would. Prado’s a natural 3B.
Have you seen Prado’s numbers at second? Not that impressive. Prado is still better than Uggla at second though. Beachy is the 6th starter, so don’t expect him to be traded.
We have plenty of 6th starters in the minors. Beachy is a luxury at this point. And his stock is pretty high. Beachy, Mike Dunn, and a couple of of B prospects. Beggars cannot be choosers. The main point of them trading Uggla is to get some bodies in return for the $10m salary relief. If they cared solely on his money, it would be a non-tender. If they cared solely on the bodies they get in return, they’d let him walk as a free agent and get the draft picks.
When you have a 2B very capable of hitting 30 HR’s you can be a “chooser” I would expect a minimum of 10 teams that would have serious interest in trading for Uggla. They will have plenty of offers to choose from. And as you said, they can get 2 draft picks for him, that only improves his value.
I highly doubt any teams with a huge hole at 2B are going to take on a $10m bad defensive 2B for only 1 year and sell the farm to do so.
who said anything about selling the farm for him? i doubt you have to go to that extreme. This isn’t a Roy Halladay/mark teixeria player. he is good, but he isn’t a superstar.
The guy all the way at the top that was talking about the Braves trading one or more of the best pitching prospects in the game and our top prospects.
beachy and dunn? seriously? that is anything but selling the farm.
Did you not read correctly? The guy mentioned trading Teharen, Vizcaino, Delgado, and/or Minor.
ok, i read the wrong thing. But so did you. The guy at the very top said “one of” their top pitching prospects. not the entire minor league pitching core.
And, out of those 6th starters are ready for the majors? None.
Front office has indicated that Teheran could be up in 2011 if there’s an injury and he keeps putting up those crazy numbers. He’s the closest, although he’s pretty much untouchable.
I think if the Braves try this, they’ll go with Minor as the center piece. Minor, Infante, and maybe Bethancourt, considering the Braves have McCann locked up and the lack of depth the Marlins have at catcher. I think that could get it done. Gives the Marlins a promising starter, a 2nd baseman, and a decent catching prospect.
I think they have Minor penciled in as 5th starter next year. They need a lefty in the rotation. Beachy is more likely. Medlen would be a great trade chip if he wasn’t hurt.
Beachy? The Marlins are demanding high so they would most likely ask for Minor, Delgado, or Vizciano for a start. I personally wouldn’t trade him within division but Braves and Nationals have best prospects out of the teams listed.
Minor, Delgado, Vizciano? That’s the problem with trades these days. It’s either junk for junk or untouchables for 1 year rentals. If it starts with Delgado or Vizciano, there wont be anything else (good) added in.
(edit)
Exactly what I’m trying to say.
Medlen would be perfect, but yeah. Minor is in the rotation for next year, but he’s the most likely of the starters to get traded. Beachy doesn’t have much value, he’d be a throw-in in most deals.
Hudson, Hanson, Lowe, Jurrjens, Beachy/Kawakami…….I could live with that if they can get a .350+ OBP and 30 HR guy in the middle of the lineup.
No way the braves trade Minor for 1 year of Uggla.
People need to remember how petty FLA owner Jeffrey Loria is. He was the only stop on the Cox retirement tour not to acknowledge Cox because of how Cox called out Loria for firing now the Braves manager, Fredi Gonzalez. If they did trade him to us, they’d only do it because we offer them a much better package than the rest of the league, which is possible. I just wonder about the financial end of re-signing Uggla. He turned down a 4-year extension from FLA averaging $12M per year. Not sure if ATL could do much better with the uncertainty of Chipper, Lowe coming back, and Hudson. Do you think the guy that attacked Nancy Kerrigan is decently priced for Chipper? (Authorities: I’m joking.)
And he would fill it for one year. Not worth it.
It’d be sweet if the red sox got Uggla for third. He’d be a beast at Fenway.
My thoughts exactly. He’d be cheaper than Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder, but he would be just as good playing at Fenway Park as either of them. Perfect fit. As a Yankee Fan, this makes me sad inside.
same with me,since i’m a yankee fan
Dan Uggla would be just as good as Adrian Gonzalez? WOWWWWWWWW
LOL
With the way that Uggla would use the Green Monster? Gonzalez would be about the same, hitting away from Petco’s benefits would be weighted down by the better pitching in the AL. Meanwhile, Uggla would explode the way Mike Lowell did, except Uggla is a better hitter than Lowell ever was, so you do the math.
The AL doesn’t have better pitching.
He’s already a beast 🙂
He is going to the Cardinals for a signed Stan Musial cap.
Red Sox 3B? Thoughts?
I truly feel bad for Marlins fans. Once again their franchise traded away a great player.
Once again? It hasn’t even happened yet.
Assuming he will, then my comment would imply.
I don’t. The Marlins have demonstrated time and again that they know how to run their franchise. The 1997 and 2003 World Series wins are proof that the last thing you need to feel towards Marlins fans is pity… just ask the Cubs.
Speaking as a Marlins fan, I’m not going to be terribly upset if we trade him as long as the return is good. We offered him a fair deal and he turned it down. I don’t blame the Marlins for not wanting to give him that 5th year.
I agree. The guy is already 30, can hit, but, not a strong fielder. 12 million a year for 4 years sounded good to me. I mean, he’s no Chase Utley.
They offered a fair long term deal and he turned it down. This isn’t another “fire sale” move.
Would love him at 3B for the Jays. No idea what kind of package it would take.
i would say starting pitching,like marcum,or romero since the jays have depth with drabek and rzepcynski
Romero for a year of Dan Uggla? Yeah no.
How bout Rzepczinsky, Accardo, Eric Thames and Henderson Alvarez for Uggla and Leo Nunez
Done. I was thinking Zach Stewart + Thames for Uggla.
I wish… would love that trade but I doubt it.
I don’t really see why the Jays would need Uggla. He is a great player and all but he would just be a rental and Jays really need to address their lead-off position more than anything IMO.
The jays could re-sign him on a long-term contract.
rzep for uggla straight up and i would consider if i was AA
Are you crazy? A 25 year old pitcher thats ERA was almost 5 for Dan Uggla? That’s a negative % chance of happening.
In how many starts? It is about upside with young pitchers. If you have 10 starts, and the Yanks and Sox each beat you up one time, you’re going to have a ballooned ERA. It’s hardly indicative of a players caliber.
a young controllable arm with mid rotation potential. last year was a bit rough for him starting with hand issues from line drive in spring training. got healthy but 5th spot was his till he got hurt. in 09, avg a k an inning with mid 3 era in roughly same amount of innings as this year. uggla is on his way out and marlins and all of us know it too.
If the Tigers get him, he and Jhonny Peralta would form the worst defensive middle infield in baseball…. but they could really benefit from his bat.
True.
The Uggla Blue Jays Formula
Package of players + contract commitment + age = not what Jays are looking for
Rather move prospect for prospect and get the 3 bagger the Jays want.
Not a lot of high-upside young 3B available. Grab Uggla if you don’t have to overpay, if Jays tank in first half – flip him at deadline.
The Braves need to be all over this and work out an extension. His 30 bombs from the right side would overlook his possible defense liability in left for a year or two. We had GA in left and a combo of Diaz/Hinske there last year. He could slide in at 3rd for chip when he calls it quits. We will be needing a 3rd baseman and there’s not much depth there in the system.
I’d be leery of signing him with the intention of moving him to left field. Not that he couldn’t do it (I really have no clue if he could), but it’s a big transition for a guy you’re getting for one year, and expecting to make a big impact in that year.
Would be nice, but trading within the division would cost us. They’d probably want more of a haul then let’s say trading them to a team in the AL. He’s a nice guy to have around, I’m just not sold on giving up top prospects for him.
I agree that trading with the Marlins would cost us more I just don’t see a better option. Braun’s not going anywhere and I’m tired of the Pat Burrell types. If Chip were to retire then we could be in on Crawford/Werth but that’s not happening. We have a lot of depth at pitching prospects and we could stand to lose a vizcaino and some mid level pieces.
Uggla would stay put at 2nd and Prado would move over to 3rd(his natural position) when chipper steps down or gets hurt.
Why not wait until he is a free agent?
I think Uggs would be a good fit for the Rangers or Red Sox who need help at the either corner position. Sure he doesn’t have the pop or defensive ability as Gonzalez, but I don’t think AGon will be going anywhere without mortgaging the entire farm. As a Yankee fan it would worry me more if the Rangers signed him which would make that offense even more powerful, but Uggla could go to town with the Green Monster as well. It’s going to be an interesting offseason to say the least.
Wait, why do the rangers need help at a corner position? I’m pretty sure they’re happy with Moreland and Young (even if his defense is apparently slipping)
I came to the assumption that the Rangers were looking for a first basemen after trading away Smoak, and since Chris Davis was performing poorly.
Mets please.
I don’t know what the Nats are looking for here, although Uggla is a good addition to a batting order. I suppose that Espinosa can go back to the minors for at least another year.
I would think Uggla’s cost wouldn’t be high (this is essentially a salary dump), but with him being a fit for so many teams, his cost could go up a lot higher than he’s actually worth. Someone will overpay for his services. Hope it’s not my team. Although, admittedly, he would be a great pickup for the Birds.
The cost will likely be 2-3 solid prospects reflecting to his soon-to-be type A free agent status and then a 50+ million dollar contract. Uggla’s a great player, but the team that lands him is going to have to pay in both terms of prospects and money. Understanding that Uggla could be left to free agency and the money not being an essential factor, I don’t think clubs will be enticed to lose a good portion of their minor league talent for a rental player, even if 2 draft picks come back their way.
I don’t think it is a salary dump. The Marlins no longer think they can resign him, so they want to get some talent in return. They don’t want to lose him and have nothing to show for it. That seems importantly different then a salary dump, where the objective is offload a contract.
An important point, for sure. Perhaps salary dump was not the correct term.
My point was the Marlins don’t seem to want to pay Uggla what he’s worth, whether for a 1-year arb or over a long-term contract. Or maybe Uggla really just doesn’t want to be in Florida, so he’s demanding an outrageous sum. Either way, that works against Florida in the trade negotiations. But what works for them is the fact that he could be a fit for so many teams. I still think someone is going to overpay for him.
Minnesota Twins
you can use fielding percentage from baseball-references. its not the greatest, but with enough sample size it tells you enough.
I’m not a fan of his fielding percentage or RF/9.
i’m not quiet getting why they would publicly advertise he is available. doesn’t that hurt their leverage in trades if teams KNOW they are trying to move him?
I’ve always wondered how much this even matters, though. Allowing teams to know that there are major issues with a player (like Manny Ramirez in 2008) is not good for a team’s trade outlook, but guaging the market for a guy like Uggla with a year left on his contract doesn’t seem desperate. They could try to re-negotiate or potentially let him walk for prospects at the end of the season.
What’s his type A status looking like? As a 30 hr second basemen, I’d have to imagine the chances are high that he’d achieve type A status. That starts the bidding floor pretty high.
Reds LF and Rolen’s caddy for a season. The Reds are a contender and they’re close to his hometown
The Blue Jays prospects are not that good. I bet the Marlins won’t trade with them.
That comment displays how little you know about the Blue Jays system. While they may not trade with them (that’s assuming they’re even interested in the first place), the Jays have a glut of pitchers and other promising prospects.
To be fair, marlinsfanatic does have a bit of a point.
Drabek is probably the closest thing the Jays have to a blue chip prospect. Beyond that, sure, there’s plenty of talent, but none of it is nurtured to the point of having four or five “can’t miss” prospects. AA has done a great job of restocking the farm with well-regarded talent, but it still needs a couple of years to come to fruition.
If the Marlins or any other team are prepared to dunk their barrel deep into the well, then business is more likely to be done. Don’t be surprised if the Jays are forced into dealing one of their frontline pitchers.
yes, well, i don’t think 1 year of uggla is worth any “can’t-miss” prospects either…
I don’t disagree…
sorry marlinsfanatic; they may not have a lot of positional prospects but their are a couple. however their arms are in an abundance.
Jim Callis at Baseball America has said that the Blue Jays farm system may be top-10 in all of baseball right now. But okay?
Dodgers
It would take Dee Gordon plus more. Don’t think its the Marlins most intriguing option.
Trade Uggla to twins for Ben Revere, or trade Uggla to Cardinals for Rasmus
ya; sorry that aint gonna happen. rasmus has far more value
I’m just saying. Rasmus wanted out, the Marlins need a CF, and the Cards like Uggla.
when did rasmus want out? when are people gonna stop trying to beat a dead horse… this debacle is long over. Rasmus has far more trade value than uggla.
LOL Uggla for Rasmus. First it’s the Jays have no prospects then it’s this. Do you have any idea what the difference in value is between Revere and Rasmus?
Hahahahahaha. Hilarious.
The anqels should trade for him mike napoli for dan uqqla cuz the marlins need a catcher and then the anqels could move dan uqqla to third base or keep him at second and trade kendrick
if uggla costs less then alex gordon then as a jays fan im good for it; but i’d rather them push for gordon
Uggla is going to get around 12 million next year. Thats ALOT more than what Gordon will get.
I think he meant in terms of trade value.
Uggla is probably cost more (in terms of prospects) than Alex Gordon. I’d rather have Uggla than Gordon, as a Jays fan.
I’d rather have neither. Gordon is a bust and after seeing what happened to Cantu, I’m skeptical of most position players off the Marlins coming to the AL.
So because of one player, you’re skeptical of any of these team-mates coming to the AL? Sorry but that makes zero sense.
Well I guess you have a point. My only point was you just don’t know what you’re going to get when a player makes a transition from leagues. Pat Burrell comes to mind.
Uggla also isn’t really young, so I wouldn’t bother with him anyways. [I’m overlooking his butchering defense].
Well Jorge Cantu isn’t that good of a player anyway.
who is to say gordon wouldnt see his potential in a new environment? the potential is there and he is not that old. bautista comes to mind…. although gordon has been in the same system his short career.
Considering what you guys got for Maybin someone who still has promise, and that the jays have at the very least a top 10 farm system in baseball I think we could trade for him easy enough.
Maybin was unproven. The Marlins gave him plenty of opportunities to succeed and he didn’t. Uggla on the other hand is proven. He will give you 30 plus homers and 90 plus RBI’s a year. The Marlins needed bullpen help desperately so it wasn’t that bad of a trade to get rid of Maybin.
you guys got Ryan Webb, whose ERA away from Petco was just under 5. The other piece, mujica, had an era+ that was just over average and an era of 4.82 away from Petco. It didn’t really help your bullpen too much IMO.
I’m not a Marlins fan, but I think Webb was a good acquisition. you shouldn’t put that much stock in home/away splits, because almost every player performs better at home than away, no matter where they play. for instance Cole Hamels (to pick a random example) pitches in a hitter’s park and his away ERA (this season and for his career) is still 0.5 points higher than his home ERA.
Maybin has promise, but he’ll likely never have adequate plate discipline. His defense in center is good and a change of scenery could help, but if he couldn’t hit at Sun Life he probably won’t be hitting in Petco. Marlins got as much value as he was worth in return.
the Padres were the worst hitting team in the NL (based on OBP and wOBA, and probably OPS too but I’m too lazy to check), and yet they were still only a game back from reaching the playoffs, and two games back from the division title. I think their plan next year will be the same as this year – rely on pitching, defense, and Adrian Gonzalez. so I don’t think Maybin’s lack of offense will be a big problem for them.
Spurier + Johnson + Mycal Jones then?
Mycal Jones is an underrated trade piece but intra-division I really think we’re going to have to throw in Vizcaino, Beachy, Hoover or Delgado. If they think they’re getting Teheran then they can go pound salt.
I know South Carolina is part of “Braves Country”, but we’d have to get permission from the Gamecocks before we go trading their football coach in a baseball deal.
lol Marlins are a joke right now.
I didn’t mind the trades of Miller and Maybin but I am kind of against an Uggla trade because I don’t think they will get what he is worth in return for him. I don’t think they would have traded Maybin if they didn’t have a CF in mind. They need to get MLB ready 2B or 3B and at least 1 MLB ready SP in any deal for Uggla…unless they see Dominguez as MLB ready this year…
The one thing with Uggla is the financial cost. He’s obviously extremely talented, but he’ll probably cost around $10M, if not more, next season. That certainly has potential to limit his market. As Rosenthal pointed out, the Marlins will be well-served to deal him early, before teams commit their payroll to other areas or fill up his positions. It’s not like a top pitcher, who you can always make room for, so the Marlins have incentive to act quick. Which makes it more fun for us 🙂
As a side note – just to get a comparison, does anyone have an example of a power hitting middle infielder that was dealt recently with one year of control left?
I can see Uggla in SF, according to an interview with Cody Ross he was talking to Uggla during the playoffs and telling him how he would love to stay in SF for years and told Uggla not to sign an extention and to go into FA and come to SF. Giants only have one year left on the contract with Freddy Sanchez. Not to mention that Sanchez mentioned last year that he could transition to 3B when the Giants were linked to Uggla. They have been searching for Right Handed power like his and have been trying to trade for him for some time now and have the Bullpen arms to get it done.
What does Cody Ross have to do with the fact that the Marlins GM will decide where Uggla goes for this year?
Well if he’s gonna move to the outfield he’s got a player coach for that. Remember when chipper moved to left field for Ken Caminiti (God rest his soul). I’d say it’s very doable. Uggla is a good player in his prime and it’s not like we’re turning him into a catcher or pitcher. I’d say go for it and attempt to extend him immediately.
Actually Chipper moved to left for Vinny Castilla… Ken Caminiti only came off the bench for the Braves, he was never a starter.
Tigers. Oliver, Sizemore + ? …
Perhaps the Tigers could widen the trade much more by including Turner and Austin Jackson for Hanely Ramirez and Uggla? Turner, Jackson, Oliver, Sizemore, and Boesch for Uggla and Ramirez?
Hanley Ramirez isn’t getting traded
no thanks i dont want to trade austin jackson.
You wouldn’t trade Jacob Turner and Austin Jackson for Hanley frickin Ramirez? LOL! (in before ‘wahh he has an attitude problem’). Go look at Austin Jackson’s BABIP for this year and come back to me next year this time and rethink this post.
The same could be said of Carlos Gonzalez and Josh Hamilton. Some players can maintain high BABIPs (especially the fast ones). Bill James projects Jackson to have a comparable season next year. But, we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
With an infield of Miggy, Uggla, Ramirez, Inge and Victor Martinez the
Tigers could go with Casper Wells in CF, Maggs in RF and Strieby in LF.
Not a chance in the world. I’ll keep Ajax
Tony La Russa for Uggla?
“Heard this: Two rival executives cast Toronto as the favorite to land Dan Uggla, assuming the Marlins follow through on trade talks.”
Does Zach Stewart and Eric Thames get it done?
He is a type A Free Agent so it will be a nice package coming back worth at least 2 1sts
it’s risky to bank on the draft picks though. Toronto tried that a few years ago and got shafted when the Yankees signed 3 Type A free agents, and Burnett was the lowest ranked one, so the Jays only got a 3rd round draft pick for him. it’s easy to imagine a scenario where Uggla could sign for a team and his team gets only a 3rd round pick. the Red Sox, for instance, have Papelbon, Drew, and Cameron coming off the books after next season… so they could sign Uggla for 3B, a Type A closer, and a Type A outfielder and suddenly it’s not a first rounder, but a third rounder.
He’s going to the Tigers and everyone knows it.
If by “everyone” you mean you, then agreed.
Uggla would be a perfect fit for ATL, if they could extend him.