A few more Saturday night links….
- SI.com's Jon Heyman (Twitter link) views Boston as the most likely landing spot for Jayson Werth.
- Billy Beane spoke to Athletics After Dark, discussing Eric Chavez, Mark Ellis, and the Athletics' offseason flexibility. You can listen to the podcast here.
- Bill Madden of the New York Daily News wonders about the Yankees' Plan B if they can't land Cliff Lee this winter.
- It may be painful, but not pursuing Lance Berkman is the right move for the rebuilding Astros, according to the Houston Chronicle's Richard Justice.
- Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic looks ahead to the Diamondbacks' first offseason under Kevin Towers, who says he has started making calls to agents about players of interest.
Obviously… Stros have Wallace. Shave about 15 pounds off his bum and he is going to be a stud.
Ah, the Daily News. What tripe. I wonder how long that hack Madden spent writing what amounts to “After Lee, the FA and trade markets for starting pitching is very thin!!!”
Worth just looks like a redsock. He just belongs. Not that I would sign him mind.
I don’t want him with the Sox. They have too many outfielders as it is and he will want too much money for too many years. I would rather play out JD and Cameron’s contracts and see what’s available in 2012.
The 2012 class is ugly. There really aren’t options available like Werth or Crawford. I certainly don’t feel comfortable depending on Cameron or Drew, and even Ellsbury given the health issues in 2010. Kalish will start the year in minors and can be developed more and brought up later in season. Depth is not necessarily a bad thing, and can help prevent having an OF of Nava, Patterson and Reddick in 2011. I think Sox need to make a splash now and Cameron/Drew will be off books, giving Sox a OF of Werth or CC, Ellsbury and Kalish in 2012.
I think the Yank’s plan B would be to go after a pitcher through a trade. There isn’t much on the market after Lee, so I could see them trying to bolster their rotation that way.
I wonder what Cashman’s level of comfort in the trade market would be after the disastrous ’09 off season and the not terribly great ’10 season (outside of Wood and the first two weeks of Kearns)? Especially with the Killers Bs starting to get closer to being major league ready.
Can you explain the ‘Disastrous ’09 off season and not terribly great ’10 season…’ for me? I’m sure 26 teams would love to have such a disappointing year.
I think he means he trades not the actual season.
Which would include the Swisher trade.
That trade happened before the 09 season.
But I like your thinking!
yup very true I got my seasons pre/post/off mixed up…. I guess technically it was 08-09 off-season but the OP was clearly referring to the Granderstand and Javy trades…
Nick Swisher and Curtis Granderson have been incredibly crappy players for us, it’s true. God, what I would do to have Wilson Betemit back.
#sarcasm
If the Red Sox sign Werth, would it be an admission that losing Bay was a mistake?
I mean there’s very little difference between the two, when you look at their history. I’ll concede that Werth plays a bit better defense and appears to run better, but that’s all I can see. If the Sox pay more for Werth, then Theo’s just covering his mistake by doing the unthinkable- throwing money at a mistake a la the ‘Evil Empire’.
Not when the Red Sox had concerns about Bay’s knees longterm and I don’t think anyone could argue letting Bay walk was a mistake given his 2010 season. It is just the Sox signing a player they have more confidence in giving all that money to. But all and all I hope they get Crawford.
This talk everywhere of signing Werth I really hope is just slinging talk. Boston is 1 season away from getting out from under the LH version of Werth and now people expect Epstein to blow 80-100M for a RH version with far less track record and the same age as Drew was when he was given his 75M contract? What very, very short memories everyone has and there is no rush this time, no Trot Nixon retiring, they have a RF, LF, or CF if they want Ells to shift there and Cameron has some capabilities still.. Why all this wasteful spending wishing going on, when most will be the 1st to complain when he turns into a pumpkin after to years like has happened with Drew and Werth struggles?
This is not directed at you jwredsox, you have pretty much been right on for the most part with pickups over the past several months, just all these people wanting these over 30 players that have short track records, seemingly demanding un worldy figures and especially, falling for rubbish by that hype machine Boras.
Next thing you know some will be listening to whatever rubbish Boras decides to spin about Varitek being worth 4/48m again, solely due to his “intangibles”…
“IF” Boston does find some spare coinage lying about this off season, of Werth-Crawford, Crawford would be a far better sign anyway as that would leave them open to moving Ellsbury at some point in time later on this year, next year, whatever with Crawford giving the team some speed in the lineup, even if CC costs them a bit more.
Next season Boston can pick up a SUPER bat anyway with Pujols, Gonzalez, Fielder, no reason to take a 80-100m super risk this year when they opted out of the same risky move last year with Bay, maybe look for a 1 year fix via FA, LaRoche, Burrell being bargain basement types, or trade with Washington and Willingham even that Epstein has always liked if the price would be right, but please no more ultra risky moves when it is not an emergency.
Paying for Crawford to watch balls bounce of the Green Monster rather than be able to chase them down is not gonna result in good value either.
If you read the post, I was not necessarily advocating the signing of Crawford, just that IMO he is a far better pickup *IF* Boston signs one of the two being Crawford-Werth, my choice would be neither and a one year pickup via a lower budgeted FA/trade. My personal favorite being Willingham if he could be gotten from Washington reasonably.
The Hammer really would be the ideal pickup especially as a RH in Fenway for the obvious reasons…unfortunately reasonable and Rizzo don’t seem to exist.
Williingham would be a solid pickup. However they wont trade him and he is coming of an injury. If they want to bring in a Corner OF through a trade here are a couple different names that might be available. Corey Hart, Carlos Quentin, Juan Rivera, and Matt Diaz. Out of all those Hart would be my choice. He plays solid defense, can hit for power, and run a little bit. Could be a 30/100 guy in Fenway.
Yep i agree with you about the evil empire stuff. Any sox fan who is angry at the yankees for spending to much is just ridiculous.
Eh, yeah the Sox spend more than most teams, that I’ll agree with you. However, last 5 year average: Boston $129M, New York $200M. That’s a big difference. So I guess I’m ridiculous.
Not really. We have the money to spend close to them, like we showed last year. The yankees have a really rich owner with lots of revenue. We have a sightly not as rich owner with a little less revenue….. I’m just not willing to complain.
I am pretty sure John Henry has a higher net worth than the Steinbreinners. Not positive, but I think I remember reading that.
The revenues are vastly different between the two teams though. The last season I could find data for was 2008 (prior to the New Stadium) and the Yanks had revenue of $375M compared to $269 for the Sox.
Add in the extra revenue from YES and the new Stadium and the difference is likely much much larger now.
I am sure the revenue is much higher with the YES network. Does Boston have a network? If not why not? George built an empire the blue prints are there, other owners can copy them.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think the richest owner is the Reds owner. Not 100% on that.
Are you still whining about this? Lets go year by year and see where each team ranks on free agents.
Once again Boston does the same things the Yankees do. It isn’t better or more noble when you guys do it. It’s baseball. Let it go.
Oh look who it is, my favorite Yankee troll err stalker.
Still waiting for you to disprove my earlier posts sweetheart. LOL
LOL!! Trying to change the subject as quick as you can. Stay on topic.
All you have to do is look at the numbers. Since ’04 NY avg payroll 200.1M. Boston 133.8. Ill even do the math for ya. Thats 66.3M on average per year.
Thats bigger than the ENTIRE PAYROLL for 7 teams and within 10M of 5 more. Out of those the Reds, Rays and AL Champ Rangers all made the playoffs. And if not for Minnesota spending 32M more than the previous year they would be on this list as well.
WOW! A Cubs fan complaining about payroll is just about as silly as a Sox fan complaining. Lets take a look at 2010’s payroll number. Cubs $146,859,000.00.
3rd highest in baseball. Well above the average. So your reasoning this is completely unfair to 27 other teams. So I say when your team gets their spending in line you can whine about others.
You guys are just as guilty as the Yankees in spending more on payroll than others. I think the real problem is envy. Not only of the championships, but also of the empire George built
Seriously? youre going to bring up the cubs as youre big comeback.
OK then.
Yes Chicago’s payroll according to Cots this year was 144M.
And since 08 they have been over 100M. 2008-118M, 2009-134M, and 2010-144M.
Those are the ONLY 3 years that they have spent more than 100M on payroll.
Now lets look at your penny-pinching Yankees (heres a hint, thats sarcasm)
2008-209M, 2009-201M, and 2010-213M. And those werent even the first time that they spent more than 200M in a year. You can go back to 2005 for that one
Im not saying that other teams dont spend a lot of money.
But NY fans really shouldnt talk about other teams spending 143M on one year and 3 years over 100M when they continually spend over 200M.
You cannot spend an average of 200.1M over the past 7 years and then criticize other teams for spending 50M+ LESS than them.
And as far as envy. If it takes us spending a total of 423.5 MILLION dollars on 3 free agents and BUYING A WS CHAMPIONSHIP then i dont want it.
George was a great business man, but the Yankees are more of whats wrong with baseball and not whats right about it.
Lots of jealous comments here. So let me understand your complaint here. You are upset because of the Yankees spending more than other teams. However its ok for the Cubs to outspend other teams and be well above the average payroll. Doesnt make sense. Ever hear of the saying People in glass houses….?
Free agent spemding did the Yankees actually spend 423 million in one offseason or are those contracts to replace expiring contracts of other players and will be paid out over multiple years.
I noticed when you were throwing out all your numbers you left some out. I assume you were upset when the Cubs spent over 214 mil on new free agents 298mil on all their free agents in 2006 more than every teams payroll in baseball. Way more than the Yankees free agent signed as well. Oh wait bad if the Yankees do it ok if others do it. ENVY ENVY ENVY
Oh I almost forgot your silly little comment about not wanting a championship. How long are you boycotting the Cubs because of the out of control free agent spending by the Cubs. Let me tell you the answer you arent and you didnt. You rooted for them and hoped they would win the WS. (Even though thats a waste of time since the Cubs cant win anything)
Again when your team gets their spending under control you can complain about others.
Oh look who it is, my favorite Yankee troll err stalker.
Still waiting for you to disprove my earlier posts sweetheart. LOL
This makes as much sense as saying if the Yankees sign Carl Crawford it would be an admission that letting Johnny Damon go was a mistake. Bay was awful last season, and if they can replace him with a superior player (Werth), I think it proves it was the absolute right move. I thought it was generally accepted Bay was overpaid by the Mets.
Bay and Werth are just about the same age, play similar defense, the lifetime stats are very similar and Bay’s last year with the Red Sox was good.There’s no real big upside between the two. Damon’s defense was non-existent his last few years in NY, he’s older, does not posess nearly the same speed as Crawford. And most important, Crawford is a good number of years younger. In other words, Crawford’s upside is way more than Damon’s.
What makes little sense is your poor attempt to spin the posting in another direction.
‘similar defense’? Werth is a lot better in the field than Bay. He plays Right Field compared to Left Field as well.
Werth is not all the much better than Bay. He’s faster and has a bit better arm, but it’s not as if Werth runs rings around Bay’s fielding. Be honest, not a front runner.
I do not think it would be Theo covering a mistake. If anything I think the Mets made the mistake of signing him to a larger contract. He had an injury plagued season in which he only played 95 games. Granted the injury was not any of the health concerns the Sox had he still was injured. The Sox signing Werth I agree with brian would be the Sox signing a better player. Who knows maybe this was their plan and all along they liked Werth better than Bay and knew he would hit free agency. So in not resigning Bay last off season is kept a spot open for Werth.
I believe signing Crawford would be better than Werth. But if they don’t sign him and come up with Werth instead, for more than they would have paid Bay, Werth better be lights out in order to justify the move.
Red Sox fans should not have any gripes about Bay’s performance during his time there.
As for playing for the Mets, no one could have predicted his maladjustment to a bigger park and his crashing into the wall. This coming year should give a better indication as to where he stands.
I am a huge Sox fan and no gripes here on how Bay played. Bay played well in Boston in being the first LF since Manny. I will give him all the credit in the world. I like Crawford, but I just feel like Crawford signs with the Angels, and that the Sox miss out on him. Therefore the next best thing being Werth. Regardless the Sox need an outfielder. Hopefully Ells will be back healthy, Drew will be Drew, and that leaves another spot. I do not think Cameron is an everyday player anymore, and Kalish is a good prospect but I think he is better suited to replace Drew after this season.
How can everyone say that Bay and Werth are similar defensively, one is a LF with a career -8.0 UZR/150 and the other is a RF with a career uzr/150 of 10.3. In other words one of these two is way above average playing a harder position.
Yeah, it’s pretty evil to want to improve your team and plug the holes in your defense/power bats/and so forth.
Man, I can’t think of any team except one who would want to do that.
Are you kidding me.
What is the alternative? Theo ties his hands and says “whoops I missed out on Bay, I better not make any moves that could improve the team.” No, of course not. Do you think these GM’s look at the big picture by 1 season at a time? Of course not, Theo and any other GM in the game has lineups, players, FA mapped out 5+ years in advance. Theo let Bay walk last year knowing that Werth/CC are available now, just like Beltre will walk because Gonzo/Fielder will be available next year (or sooner).
I wonder whos agents Towers is calling? cough cough (Paul Konerko, Rafael Soriono)
I like berkman..
And I still don’t like lee but oh well lol
i see lee good but not for 5 yrs at his age berkman goes good with the rangers or white sox to me
Dude you need lee. Think about the rotation after C.C.. It’s really thin assumming pettiet commes back.
After that smirk he made against us during the 2009 WS, I hated him.. I hope we find an alternative… But you’re right we do need him thanks to aj n Javier..
I could see that. Kind of how I STILL can’t stand lackey.
I don’t think Crawford or Werth want to play in Boston. They both will play on the west coast along with Beltre.
Out of all 3 i think the only one that Boston has a shot at is Werth and i would say that it would take them overpaying to get him.
Crawford ends up in Cali. Either SF or Anaheim.
Beltre is kind of a wildcard. I could name 7 teams where he could end up since he really hasnt mentioned anything about preferences. Anaheim, LA, Boston, Baltimore, Oakland, St. Louis, Chicago (AL). Im not saying that all these teams would be interested just that they all have a need at 3B. And that isnt including a team like Arizona who could sign him and trade Reynolds or the teams that you automatically eliminate like Cleveland, Florida, San Diego, and Kansas City.
Why do you think Crawford’s going to end up in California? If anything, Beltre will end up on the West Coast. He’s stated many times about his desire to be close to his family and he prefers the weather. Crawford has given no indication himself about where he wants to play. Same with Werth.
Just because you have a hunch, doesn’t mean it’s right. I bet both Crawford and Werth go where the money is.
Some people think because Torii Hunter had CC’s locker next to his at the AS Game, and Hunter is doing some recruiting, CC will end up w/ Angels. Someone else reported that since CC has played against Boston and NYY, it’ll be hard for him to play FOR them. I think that’s weaker reasoning. Noone knows how CC feels about that. Werth and CC will have some good opportunities presented to say the least. I agree, Beltre will be a better bet to end up with Angels as family is on West Coast and his family just welcomed a new addition. There will be more desire for him to stay closer to home IMO.
just wondering..what gives you that impression? did you read something somewhere or is it just a hunch?
Someone is going to score big with Berkman… just watch I think he will be a >320avg 35 HR !00 plus Rbi next year.. a lot of times when great players have something to prove there talent comes out…
As someone who has been married for over 12 years, I can tell you without hesitation that Mrs. Lee is going to have a say where she and her family reside. Cliff will get an earful from his wife regarding the behavior of certain fans in NY to the point where he might sign with another team if they are able to match the money the Yanks offer. I see him going back to Texas or signing with the Nationals. I dare anyone who is married to try to disagree with me here…
She should be glad we didn’t do more.
That’s what u get for making a smirk when the Yankees hit a popup.. I never forgot that 09..
And I’m glad we treated his wife that way. He needs to EARN our respect. Yankees respect isn’t given. ITS EARNED. ask cc.
Dude thats not cool man. Just because he smirks in a baseball game(and i really dont remember any smirking) does not give you the right to be glad the people acted cruely toward a innocent women. They threw cups of beer and yelled things no one wants to hear at her. Is that right? No. There is no debate. You talks about respect are completely off base and have nothing to do with anything. Humans beings no matter who they’re married to all deserve basic respect. What they did is illiegal anyway and if she knew who they were she could press charges. Another thing, by your thinking the yankees need to EARN respect as well by not treating people who have not wronged them and any way badly. Their fans really let them down on this one.
PLZ DO NOT GET JAYSON WERTH! of anything.. I would encourage them to sign Crawford, and trade granderson + minors for a marquee pitcher.An move Gardner to center, and give Crawford LF.. and swish-meister RF. he improved his fielding + contact.