A case can be made that Friday's Vernon Wells trade was the most significant move of the offseason. The Angels took on his entire contract, freeing up a ton of present and future payroll for the Blue Jays. Wells is scheduled to make $23MM in 2011 and then another $21MM each season from 2012-2014, and it's fairly obvious how shedding that much of an obligation will allow GM Alex Anthopoulos to improve his team.
Now that Wells is off the books, let's use Cot's Baseball Contracts to see what the Jays are on the hook for over the next few seasons. This is guaranteed money only, so arbitration and pre-arbitration contracts are not included. Same with option years, only the buyouts are counted since that's the only portion of the contract that is guaranteed.
- 2011: $44.09MM, but only going up once contracts with arbitration-eligibles Jose Bautista, Mike Napoli, and Jason Frasor are finalized.
- 2012: $17.4MM. Both Adam Lind and Ricky Romero will earn $5MM+ while Adeiny Hechavarria and Rajai Davis will each pull down $2MM+. Six-figure buyouts to Jon Rauch, Octavio Dotel, and Edwin Encarnacion made up the rest.
- 2013: $16.15MM: Almost all Lind, Romero, and Hechevarria. Davis' buyout comes into play as well.
- 2014: $9.75MM. Romero and Lind's $2MM buyout.
- 2015: $7.75MM: All Romero.
- 2016: $600K. Romero's buyout.
Aaron Hill's contract contains club options for 2012 ($8MM), 2013 ($8MM), and 2014 ($10MM) with no buyouts, though the 2014 option goes away if the team does not exercise all three before this upcoming season. Either way, it seems like a safe bet that at least the 2012 option will be picked up, increasing that season's total obligation to a still modest $25.4MM.
Toronto holds seven of the first 80 picks in next June's draft, including the Angels' second rounder for Scott Downs, and Anthopoulos has emphasized that method of talent acquisition since taking over. A portion of the Wells savings could be spent there. The club is also set up well for a run at either Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder next offseason, should they choose to go that route.
It was just 18 months ago that the Blue Jays owed over $160MM to Wells and Alex Rios, yet today they owe the pair nothing. Those savings can go a long way towards building the next playoff team in Toronto.
Tony Reagins should be fired for this.
Absolutely mind-blowing, but it was not his call to hate Mike Napoli so much that they had to get rid of him, that would be Mike “Tony Soprano” “I have a 10 year contract so I can pull crap like this” Scioscia’s fault.
I guess the 10 year deal to Scioscia is also hurting the team more than helping it.
It’s hard to say. Scioscia is a guy who manages around speed and manufacturing runs. First off, they lost Lackey, Santana began to pitch badly, and Nick (R.I.P.) Adenhart was killed in a car accident. He lost lost Figgins, Teixeira, K-Rod, Shields went downhill, Vlad, while Abreu had a slump year. It’s hard to blame it all on him.
abreu has been one of the most consistent guys in baseball always hitting what at least 20 hrs, stealing 20 bases and getting 100 rbis with a few down years here and there…including last year but he still his 20 hrs and stole 24 bases, the move to DH will do him wonders. Cant blame him for that, and you cant blame him for tex when they had kendry. the year they lost tex to the yankees that first season tex and kendry has almost identical seasons. and no one could have prodicted the broken leg….he should have forced the ownership to make a harder move at figgens. Lackey’s loss was fine because of the rest of their staff
Unfortunately, Joey Votto came to mind looking at that miniscule 2014 financial committment list.
Couple these savings with the richest owners in the MLB and what appears to be a smart GM and the Jays look set up for success.
The Canadian dollar’s parody with the US Dollar also plays a role in this. All else being equal, the Jay’s don’t have to sell 110 ticket for every 100 that a US team sells. That’s like a 10% bump in the budget right there over the past 5 years.
Right now the tax difference is a bigger issue than the exchange rate.
The tax difference? That is the most bogus excuse Ive ever heard and continue to hear. When you are talking millions of dollars, the taxes are virtually identical
Not really, seeing as taxes are percentages. So the BoSox pay proportionally more than the Rays.
The difference between the taxes for a player in Florida and Canada is about a sixth of the gross.
If you have the right accountant and you dont maintain a permanant residence as an American/International (non Canadian) born player, you can pretty much even out the numbers. Also, if we are talking about someone in the category of a Puhols, then what are the chances he ends up anywhere near Florida with what will be at least a 22-25 mil a year contract…
First its spelled Pujols, and second it will be a little more than 22-25 buddy, try 28-30.
not that it makes him harder to sign for the Jays. Only question is if Cards resign him
what??? Canada is so nice they tax you twice!
Heh, that was a funny typo. I assume you meant parity.
I never do this, but it’s “parity”, not “parody”. Parody means something else entirely.
The Blue Jays were already a good team heading into ’11 before a drug-induced Tony Reagins made the Wells trade.
The Blue Jays are on the way up, just like the O’s.
The AL East is the only tough division in baseball. It’s a monster division.
I think the NL Central is getting back up there actually, it might even be the 2nd best division in baseball. The Brewers seem back to form after addressing their biggest need in a big way. The Cubs will at least get back to a mediocre state, as their rotation is not bad, and the Cardinals and Reds are expected to be as good as they usually are.
NL East? Marlins improved their bullpen. Nationals have Harper, Strasburg, Werth, and Ramos. Braves got Uggla. And the Mets exist. heh.
one flaw in the NL east…strasburg wont pitch at all this year and no one knows how TJ will affect him so early in his career(i as a baseball fan hope he comes back fine and does not rush anything, i would love to see him throughout his full career) and harper more than likely will not see the majors untill 2012 at the very very very earliest more likely 2013…remeber he is only like 18 years old there is a ton of adjustments from JR college level to the mlb(consider highschool baseball is different from JUCO, JUCO is different from NCAA, NCAA is different from low-A, etc, etc get my point) same with ramos he probably wont crack the big team untill 2012
marlins will be competing soon, and JUCO or not he was hitting 500+ foot bombs at 16.
Good news on Strasburg is he is already rehabbing and is ahead of schedule, dont think TJ will affect this guy.
The Mets are not going to be a pushover. They had their whole house fall down around them last season and they were still a .500 team. They lost about 120 games combined between their 1, 4, and 5 hitters, and their #1 starter.
I don’t think they’re going to be a World Series contender or anything, but they have the potential to still be competitive even in a year in which they’re running out the clock on their bad contracts.
Here is the problem with the NL Central. Yes you have the Reds and the Cardinals. And they are good teams, add in the Brewers if things go right with the SP and bullpen and thats interesting. The Cubs have talent (they just lost it), and the Astros are not terrible. But exactly none of those teams are going to worry the Phillies. The Cubs and Brewers are going downhill – Cubs are older and worse and Brewers are going about to lose their best player. I would contend the division as a whole is getting worse. The improving division in the NL is the east. Nationals, Marlins, Braves are building some nice pieces but it isn’t a tough division.
The AL East is a flat out monster division because at the moment, the favourite for the division finished third last year and won 89 games. That is better than all NL Central teams bar the Reds (who won 2 more). Take out the injuries the Red Sox had, and you could have had 3 AL East teams with better records than the NL Central champion. 4 AL East teams finished above .500. (only 2 for the NL Central). This is why the AL East is scary – as much as people talk about they beat up eachother, the division as a whole destroys the rest of baseball.
We do need to remember something about the Blue Jays here. Everyone loves the trade form their perspective (and rightly so) but they didn’t exactly make the 2011 team better – they traded one of their better players for a catcher who can’t catch, so 1B/DH and an outfielder no one really wants. They won the trade because they freed up money they may nor may not spend soon. As a Red Sox fan it makes me worry, but not about 2011, about 2015.
the brewers best player became zack greinke this off season..yeah they will lose prince but they could have a chance that he comes back through arb with the flooded 1st base market next season..
As for the players the BJs got…Napoli fills one big hole in the lineup for the blues…he will play either first or DH along with lind(who ever is better there with the glove in ST will get the job the other will DH) They moved Wells to slot davis in there…yes davis wont hit for the power wells will. but he is a solid .280+ avg hitter with a career .330 obp(not great not bad) who has 50 stolen base speed, he did it last yar and the defense is less with davis but not enough to kill you but the big thing is the money spent….juan will either start in left, be a back up LF/RF/DH/1st, or traded again either way its a win no matter wat
I never argued that the NL Central was better, I said they were the 2nd best, that’s all. We are in full agreement that the AL East is the best division. Just talking about who is behind :).
And if you don’t think the Phillies will be threatened by the Cardinals, and perhaps the Reds, I sincerely doubt your judgement.
Don’t compare the Jays to the OrioLOLs, please. Thank you.
O’s will probably finish better than Jays in 2011.
Though, the chances of O’s making PO in this decade is much, MUCH lower than the Jays’
If only we could make bets over MLBTR….
The Jays were 19 games better than Baltimore in 2010. What improvements have the Orioles made to make up such a huge gap? Some of their young guys will likely improve (Wieters, Matusz, etc.) but you think Reynolds and Derrek Lee are going to make that up? Even if the Jays slide back 7-8 games (Marcum/Wells trades), I don’t see Baltimore passing Toronto this year.
Is that recycled from last year? I could swear people were saying “O’s will probably finish better than Jays in 2010”
Just like last year eh…
anybody who thinks the 2010 Jays were not an anomaly is crazy
however i do admit that im taking a wild guess that O’s will improve drastically
Jays records the last 5 years. 85, 75, 86, 83, 87. most years finishing 15 games better then the O’s. So I don’t see how it was such an anomaly, more like 2009 was the anomaly. I don’t think the Jays will win 85+ next year but will defiantly be better then the O’s barring red sox like health problems. I know your not saying this but i find it so funny how O’s fans say it was a fluke year for the jays but say how good the O’s have become since they got buck sholwalter like that is not an anomaly.
tell me, were the jays a better team going into 2010?
You are crazy if you think the answer is yes
Explain to me why I’m crazy then. Aside from Bautista what is so extraordinary about the 2010 Jays? A young pitching staff on the rise. Enough in the pen to get by. If Hill/Lind can rebound and Bautista doesn’t totally implode the Jays should be a decent enough club in 2011.
you mean aside from the 256 Homers? Not much
Aside from Bautista nobodies numbers on the team was outlandish though. Losing Wells will bring the HR totals down, but, if EE plays more his numbers should climb as should Lind and Snider. The lineup was built for power and that’s what it ended up with. They’ll hit less homers this season, but, could very well score more depending on how a few guys do this season. Tell me, how many losses did you have TO pegged for going into 2010? The team isn’t that bad.
Wasn’t comparing them. I stated both are on the way up… which is nothing but true.
Reading comprehension, Andy.
LOL at drugged Tony Reagins, truth is he is probably on drugs now, or heavily medicated after realizing he has to pay Wells 21 million a year for the next three years as Napoli crushes 25 plus HRs as the Jays’ DH for what 3 million?
More like 6 million but it doesn’t really matter. Reagins got bent over.
Question is – do you really think the Jays would take the Wells savings, and then put all of it, and more, into a player like Fielder or Pujols, that may very well turn into an albatross a few years down the road.
To me, I see the Wells savings going mostly into locking up the Jays young core players – like Morrow, Cecil, Drabek, Snider, Lawrie, etc. I still only see the Blue Jays dipping into free agency to sign complimentary pieces, like a David DeJesus next offseason, not spending huge money on superstars.
I agree, but I think AA will also continue to put money into scouting and drafting, bringing the organization back to it’s roots.
Yeah, scouting and drafting will definitely be important, that’s the other area some of the money will go. I just mentioned locking up youngsters as the biggest impact, as it seems like the organization is heavily committed to scouting and drafting as is, even before this crazy trade.
I agree. AA has really done so much in such a short amount of time. I’d like to see what Morrow does this coming season and see them lock him up to a team-friendly deal.
Question is – do you really think the Jays would take the Wells savings, and then put all of it, and more, into a player like Fielder or Pujols, that may very well turn into an albatross a few years down the road.
AA would just trade it away, no big deal.
ya i agree, more to lock up the young talent, I’d like to see snider and bautista get a deal. I also think any big addition are going to come through a trade much like the lawrie one. The Jays will have even more pitching depth after next years draft and I can see them trade a guy like Cecil, or Scrabble next year for something of substance.
Bautista isn’t young though, I think if he wants to test the market then next year might be his only chance.
he just turned 30 lol
Pujols and Fielder shouldn’t be discussed in the same breath. Fielder has a terrible body and old man skills that could rapidly deteriorate. Pujols is arguably a top-10 hitter in the history of baseball and a great athlete showing no discernible signs of decline.
Pujols has shoulder problems and his elbow acts up, don’t get me wrong, he is top 10 hitter in baseball but he is also human.
Even Gehrig stopped playing after a while.
I can absolutely see the Blue Jays signing a huge FA such as Prince Fielder, etc.
Their new GM has made very nice moves this winter. I’m not even including the Wells trade with that statement. The Wells trade was more likely Reagins being a dope and initiating the entire thing.
as good as the core group is, it won’t be enough to thwart the likes of bos, ny, tb alone going forward. as they get closer they are going to need a few more star players to come in and put them over the hump. probably in the form of an ace SP and another big bat. and thats assuming snyder continues to develop jbau doesn’t regress and aaron hill and lind can regain there form.
they need more help…and they need to use this money.
Here’s some advice- it’s “Snider” not “Snyder”.
who cares?
I do.
Mrs. Snider does.
I do, however, I couldn’t care less about your opinion and if you do or not.
Snyder is the new Holliday.
Ray was such a good pitcher.
If they need to acquire stars, I just think it will come through trades, not free agency. If they need an ace, they’ll be out in front to pick up someone like Greinke, and the continued investment in scouting and drafting will keep premium talent in the system that they can use to acquire those types of players. The money freed up will make it easier to add pieces like that, with much greater payroll flexibility, but still only committing in smart ways. Trade for two years of Greinke at $13M a year? Absolutely. Sign Greinke for 8-years and $140M when he hits free agency? Leave that move for the Yankees or the Angels. Or let the Orioles make that move, and then struggle to stay afloat long-term.
you say if as though you think its plausible they could achieve perennial post-season success without ponying up and bring in a few high paid high profile guys… which i think they absolutely do. but that’s why freeing about all this money is so intriguing.
how they go about it is really up in the air and based solely on circumstance. your logic is sound, but sometimes a longer deal can favour the club (as well as the player). In Toronto’s case, if they can get there hands on the closest thing there is to a sure commodity (like Greinke, or King Felix), then I think you pony up the bucks and give them the 5 or even 6 year deal…(not 8…)thereby assuring yourself of their services for the forseeable future.
However the Jays go about putting the pieces together in the future this new administration is proving to be far more prudent then regimes past which I’m pretty thrilled about.
But Anthopoulos, since essentially the day he took over, has made it clear that the way you get those superstars needed to anchor a contending team is to draft/trade for them as prospects, develop them, and then have the flexibility to sign them to team-friendly long-term deals. Maybe I’m missing one or two, but can you really think of a long-term free agent signing, of 6 years or more, that has really worked out for the team?
It just really makes little sense to sign an elite player through free agency, because you’re going to end up regretting that deal, and it will limit your financial flexibility down the road. Trading for the pieces and holding them for a year or two is generally much better, as the talent you trade away sometimes turns into nothing, and you don’t have to pony up for so many years of the player.
Develop elite prospects, sign reasonable free agents to short-term contracts, and trade for elite players to put you over the edge – that’s a model for success, even in the AL East. It’s what the Rays have been trying to do, except with the money to retain young stars, and the financial flexibility to trade for players making large salaries in the short-term.
“Maybe I’m missing one or two, but can you really think of a long-term free agent signing, of 6 years or more, that has really worked out for the team”?
Mike Mussina- 123-72, 3.88 ERA, 1.21 Whip (I know, not the best stats)
ManRam- .312/.411/.588 w/ 274 hrs, 2 WS
Vlad- .319/.381/.546 w/ 173 hrs
Also, the Rays aren’t really a good example. They simply didn’t attempt to compete and cashed in on high draft pick slots. They made some nice moves to acquire Garza and signing Pena as a minor lge FA but not much else.
Albert Pujols has been a Cardinal for 10 years, Ichiro Suzuki,10 years with the mariners, Derek Jeter, Yankees respectfully, shoot throw Jorge Posada in there, he has worked out for 10 years, I could go on but there are those contracts where you scratch your head 3 years later and go shoot three more years of this bum?
have to wait 5 years to even sniff King Felix, he is signed so damn team friendly its not even concievable to include him on wish lists or trade rumors, or as you Canadians put it Rumours.
as much as i would love pujols he would probably only come for a longterm 30M per deal. you’d probably have to give him 275M. that being said the guy is amazing and i’d certainly consider it.
I would take Pujols at 30 mil a year for 5 years. I know that he is looking for a 10 year deal like A-Rods but I think the 5 year 150 mil could be quite enticing for him and a decent deal for the Jays too.
At 5/150 Pujols never leaves the Cards…
Actually, He doesnt even return the phone call!
If you have the money, Pujols is as close as they come to a sure bet. There is nothing to suggest he is going to tale off soon. He brings great leadership to a club and a community. He will be hitting huge milestones which will garner national interest. Oh, and he could hit for average and power in front of Snider for almost a decade. IT would be awesome.
i dont think the jay are worried about pujols tailing off. More so the fact that he could get injured at anytime and thats far to much money to invest into one guy. Although as a jays fan that would be a dream to have pujols in a jays uniform.
Agreed, my main concern with Pujols is that injuries get to him and make him less effective. Playing on our turf won’t help his knees one bit.
It still hasn’t settled in my mind over the Wells trade, it made NO, ZERO, NADA, KEIN, NULL, sense at all. LAA went from being AL West bullies to well, screwed for a long time.
4 years isnt that long
(this is sarcasm)
i would love to have been a fly on the wall during those talks for sure…i wonder if LA asked for money and the Jays balked…
If you told me these two teams were talking about a Wells trade, I would think the Jays would have to pay half his salary in order to pull something off. If they did it would still have been a good trade for the them. Wells is a shadow of the player he once was. Post all the fangraphs stats you want, the guy isn’t worth half of what he’ll be making in the last few years of that deal.
haha likely. reports were that the angels were pursuing wells at the winter meetings, the angels likely wanted the jays to cover a substantial amount of his contract and AA wouldnt. A few signings fall through for the angels and they obviously became a little bit rushed to add a bat to their lineup.
There’s a guy named Adrian Gonzalez on the market next year as well for those who are forgetting.
Most believe the Red Sox will extend him as soon as the season starts, just to avoid luxury tax implications if they announced a deal now.
Albert Pujols is the greatest hitter of our generation. Hard to see any contract of his being an albatross. Signing him would be like signing Babe Ruth to a free agent contract. Prince Fielder doesn’t even belong in the same breath. Either way, regardless of whether or not AA was willing, it’s hard to see Pujols coming to Toronto.
The Yankees, Red Sox (assuming a Gonzalez extension, which we all are) and Phillies already have their 1B slots filled for years. That makes Pujols much more affordable.
Someone is going to give that man at least $25 mil x 7
The Jays have $34M a year they could spend without even increasing their payroll over 2008.
Just a random thought, but I can see the Yankees trying to do something crazy like trade away Teixeira, and then sign Pujols. Teixeira probably wouldn’t have much excess value – though much of that would depend on how his 2011 goes – but if Vernon Wells could be traded, Teixeira certainly can.
I think the Jays should seriously consider a Fielder/Agonz/Pujols/Votto type for 1b. Whether they wait one season or a few to spend the Wells money it really doesn’t matter as there is tons of talent in the FA 1b pool, a position the Jays lack in terms of quality prospects.
a lineup and rotation of 2012/2013 Jays:
gose CF
escobar 2b
bautista RF
pujols/fielder/agonz 1b
snider LF
lawrie 3b
lind dh
JPA or d’arnaud C
hechavarria SS
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Drabek
Mcguire
could make some serious noise in the AL East
I also think that plugging Gose who didn’t hit at all in A ball into the starting lineup for 2012 or 2013 is WILDLY optimistic.
Yeah, I’m a Phils fan and always liked Gose cuz of his wheels. But the dude doesn’t hit all that well. I had hopes of a future lead off man…but he is young yet and I think he will develop into a Victorino-type with more stolen bases.
hey, a Victorino-type guy with a ton of stolen bases is DEFINITELY not a bad thing.
Great D + speed = assets a winning ball club needs.
Considering he spent last year in HiA as a 19 year old and improved as the season went on, I find it hard to be too critical of his bat. Why is projecting him for a 2013 debut wildly optimistic? He didn’t hit -that- badly last year and will almost definitely spend most of the upcoming season in AA. Why would he be 4 seasons off from being MLB ready?
I’d be very surprised if he spent the majority of the year in AA. He was the youngest player in the league and struggled. He’s going to (or at the very least should) repeat the level. That would put him starting 2012 in AA which means at best he sees the bigs by 2013, but isn’t a regular and the everyday leadoff guy.
Is it impossible that he’s ready by then? Of course not. It’s just “wildly optimistic”
yah he was only one of the youngest players in high A last year.. no big deal
he also had a .360 OBP when he moved over to Dunedin
Who cares! What has he done in the bigs exactly again?
exactly! Trout, Harper, Moustakas, Hosmer, all those guys are crap!
genius… genius post RSD…
You listed 8 prospects with little to no major league experience and you believe we could “make some serious noise in the AL East” with this roster??? I’m as hopeful as the next Jays fan, but be serious. By the way, where is Hill? or Davis? or Napoli? This lineup does not stand up to Boston or NY at all. We should pretty much count on it being 2015 or later before we make a run for the AL East, Pujols or not. The Cardinals have Pujols and a better supporting cast than you listed above and they can’t even win the NL Central… Oh, and they have a better Manager too. Don’t forget our Manager has zero MLB experience as the head guy yet. One player isn’t the solution!
its true that some players on that list have done nothing. But you cant say then that they wont do nothing as well. The fact is in 2012 they could be stars, they could not but do say that wont stack up with NY or Boston makes not sense since its 2 years away and you dont know A, what thouse players will do over the next 2 years and B, what the Yanks and Sox do or team looks. Bautista is a good exsample at this time last year poepl would say he was a bench player at best. how much a year can change things.
What I can say is that Gose, McGuire, D’Arnaud for sure are not expected to be MLB players by 2012. Bautista actually was always scouted to be a power bat and to be a starter. He finally met his potential late, so if we are going off that example then your 2012 projection seems even more absurd. Bautista was brought to the Jays to be a starter and was a starter from day 1 last year. Also, if you look at the players Boston and NY have under contract through 2013 then you would agree the lineup projected doesn’t compete. I’m not saying we won’t win it all, but I am saying I’m not optimistic. Everyone is so impatient with the Jays and wants these prospects up immediately, that’s just not how things work the majority of the time. Have patience and have faith in the system!
Where did Aaron Hill go?
He was cut, which is what should happen
Thats more than a little harsh. I would expect him to bounce back this year more than repeat last year… I would be happy with .280-.325-.800 line which is close to his career average. As awful as last year was, he still hit 26 homers and had 68 RBI’s batting just north of the Mendoza line. He is a lock for 25-35 HR and 75+ RBI’s. Not bad for a 2nd basman making moderate money.
His power number’s I don’t mind.. but as a middle infielder his most important job should be to get on base, which he stinks at. He can’t take a walk, and his long swing doesn’t produce many singles.. I’m sure he will have a better year, but even at his peak I don’t see him as an impact player for the Jays. In 2-3 years if Lawrie is manning 3rd and Hechavarria manning SS, I’d much rather keep Escobar at 2nd with minimal power and a .380 OBP than Hill..
As we all saw last year, hitting HR’s is great and all, but someones got to be on base sometime
Wow, how the mighty have fallen. The guy wins a Silver Slugger one year and shoulda been a gold glover, then the next year he is being thrown out with last weeks trash. Lets get a little perspective here. All things remaining equal, the guy is still a top 10 second baseman until he has more than just one bad season. And that bad one wasn’t as horrible as some are making it out to be.
Thats the thing Jaybooster.. I’m not turning on the guy because of his 1 bad year.. I never liked him even during his silver slugger season…
To me he represents everything that has been wrong with the mindset of the Jays in the last decade.. In the minors he was a low slugging, but high average/decent obp, good defensive type of infielder.. Then he arrives and all he wants to do is his dingers.. and don’t think AA doesn’t feel the same way, you’ll see when his 3 year option isn’t picked up before 2011..
I much rather have a slugging first baseman, and a speedy brian roberts type of 2b..
Jays haven’t had either in a long long time
Fair enough comments. I still think that in the absence of a slugging first baseman (lets hope Lind bounces back) you take a second baseman that is capable of 30-100 and maybe even throw in 12-15 sb’s on a consistant basis and be ecstatic with the results. Roberto Alomar he isn’t. But Jeff Kentish isn’t a bad fallback…
Why isn’t Pujols hitting third?
Because your best hitter should hit cleanup, despite the truism.
There’s only one logical explanation for this trade:
Alex Anthopoulos = Michael Corleone
Arte Moreno = Senator Geary
The Alex Rios contract would go a long way toward building the next playoff team in Toronto.
Also, if the Jays lose both their arb cases, their payroll this year would be $66M. They had a ton of money to spend on free agents before moving Wells.
I agree with this^. They didn’t spend money not because they didn’t have it, but because it didn’t make sense to spend it. The surprising years out of Bautista, Hill and Lind really left the team confused as to what exactly it has. It makes far more sense to go through 2011 and see exactly what assets are useful and what ones need to be cut (for example, if Hill has another disastrous year, he’s gone).
Once they properly identify the pieces they need to make that next step, it seems like a safe bet that AA will try to make a move to acquire them.
That all being said, shedding the massive money due to Wells creates even MORE flexibility going forward, especially given the likelihood of a decline in VWs skills and thus is a fantastic move.
Sorry, the Jays have 3 arb cases (they acquired one in Napoli), but the $66M is approximately right.
I actually think you came in a bit high:
$44.09MM
+ $10.5MM (Bautista if lost)
+ $3.725MM (Frasor if lost)
+ $6.1MM (Napoli if lost)
————————–
$64.415MM = max payroll
$61.14MM = min payroll (win all arb cases $7.6M, 5.3M, $3.25M)
I don’t think the $44.09M includes the $400k+ each pre-arb player will earn.
Really? I assumed it did.
I looked at the spreadsheet at Cot’s and the salary columns for the pre-arb players weren’t filled in (because they don’t make exactly the minimum, although it’s close enough to make no difference).
Stupid Angels!
It’s a shame Mr. Votto signed an extension.
How does it make any difference? He didn’t give away any FA years.
AA is turning himself into one hell of a GM. He got Toronto to take on Wells entire salary for Napoli and Rivera which are nice pieces coming back. Wells will be a loss for sure but 7 picks of the first 80 and a huge amount of flexability now that they freed up Wells. AA is doing some very nice things in Toronto. Watch and learn Mets.
8 picks
He definitely did not get Toronto to take on Wells’ salary, he got LA to…typo, my friend.
With Ricciardi helping out the Mets FO, you’d hope Ricciardi is watching and learning.
sortof off topic, but how much do you think the Cards will have to give Pujols for him to stay? and how much can they realistically afford to pay?
I think somewhere between $25-$28 per and something from 6 to 8 years.
$200 million +
He gets $30 million * 7
I would love to have King Albert, but Pujols belongs in a Cardinal uniform for life. I hope they lock him up.
Fielder would be a big bat to add but im not sold on a player like him. He will cost a lot, i say the Angel’s get him. They wont make the same mistake two off-seasons in a row.
That being said i would prefer AA to stay the course and follow Tampa and not give out any big contracts.
Angels get Prince with what money? They’re barely on their feet financially now they won’t be able to spend 25 million on Fielder (He wants 8 years 300 million last i checked). Plus the Jays don’t have any solid 1st base prospects King Albert or Prince would be perfect: great bat, leadership (more on Alberts part), and a guy who will put fans in the seats…which is really lacking in Toronto. AA should keep doing his thing, but with all the money we have we need to put it to good use.
id take pujols over prince regardless of age or the extra money ( though i doubt he reaches free agency) but i also think you meant 8 years 200 million for prince.
Angels have Morales. I’m thinking Prince goes to Texas, Los Angeles or San Francisco.
Napoli and Rivera will be on other teams by the trade deadline.. The Red Sox are light on the catching front and will probably be the first team to come calling. I don’t see Napoli being a short term solution, his inability to throw out base-stealers is terrible, he is terrible with runners in scoring position. Plus the Jays future at C are in JP Arencebia and Travis d’Arnaud. If the Jays intend to spend the Wells money it would probably be on a elite starter or closer.
Please don’t spend it on an elite closer…whatever the hell that’s supposed to be
How many catchers of the future have the jays burned through the last decade? Every year there is a new Robinson Diaz and every year a Greg Zaun gets most of the playing time. It’d be nice if Aaron Cibia and d’Arnaud both pan out but I wouldn’t put money on it.
They are both not even the best catcher in the system
i love how you made Jp’s last name into a legit full name, thats impressive.
I can’t take credit for that. It was Drunk Jays Fans I believe.
It’s been a pun there for a year or so now heh.
Flim flam man JPR was slumming it in Toronto, managing from his computer in Worchester, MA, waiting for his dream job to open up in Boston.
AA is a Canadian boy, and already HAS his dream job. He’ll take the long term approach which we need.
JPR kept his dream job in Boston for less than a week before going to work for the Mets, and the Jays are riding high on his draft picks.
Considering the Jays had the 28th ranked farm system under JP and are now variously 4th-5th-7th depending on your source, I’m gonna disagree woth you.
12 of the 20 top ranked Jays prospects are AA era, and that’s in one year!
Think about how many bombs Prince would hit at the Rogers Center, 50..60 maybe? We’re winning 85 games with garbage, imagine how many games we’ll win with superstars! AA is hands down executive of 2010 and 2011 and if he keeps this up he’ll be in the Hall someday.
Saying they won 85 games with garbage in the al east is pretty ignorant, its pretty clear they have some good ball players.
yeah, but no true superstar talent.
Define “superstar”
It’d be easier if you identified which jays you would identify as a superstar. Morrow? Lind? Bautista had a superstar season I guess…
But do they have an Arod or a Pujols or even a Fielder? No, they do not.
only 3 teams in the league do…
I would clasify Bautista as at least a Fielder based on last years stats… And A.Roid can bite me with that contract and declining production.
A player who consistantly puts up big numbers, consistency is what we lack, Hill and Lind have one good year and last year was really off, Bautista has one good year who knows if he’ll keep it up, the talent is there but we aren’t winning 100 games because we’re inconsistent. To me thats what a superstar is, consistently putting up big numbers that greatly affect the outcome of the game.
They have good ball players, but we don’t come close to comparing to the Yankees and Red Sox talent. We have young talent who has yet to prove their worth and that isn’t looked as highly upon in this league compared to guys like A-Rod, Jeter, and Tex to name a few making 20 million a year and are consistently making it into the playoffs and world series for that matter. Its not garbage that was an overexaggeration but we do not compare to the talent thats out there in the league.
Let’s see how he handles acquiring talent vs finding idiots to accept bad contracts. Scrubbing the decks was a great start though.
I’d say Brandon Morrow and (assuming he comes back to form) Yunel Escobar fits the description of the former.
It’s safe to say he took a reclamation project and cleaned it up more than any GM could ever dream to. I’d like to see how he drafts as well.
i honestly doubt 50% of Torontonians know who Pujols is
but i’m sure 90% know who crosby is
whats your point? we all know hockey is king in canada…and theres nothign wrong with that, its a great sport, but so is baseball.
stop being defensive, everytime i say something about toronto, you just jump up in defence.
anyways, my point being was that, if Halladay didn’t put butts in seats, im not sure how much Pujols can do.
Stop being so defensive
but you come with comments like 50% of Torontonians dont know who Pujols is…
Halladay didn’t put butts in the seats because the team was still terrible despite him… when the team starts to win, the fans will come back. Period.
90% of Torontonians know who Joey Votto is
I hope you don’t actually believe that its more like 15%
the Jays could top that… right?
though Pujols might not even consider TOR
You do know that Napoli is basically Arencibia’s ceiling, minus the arm. right?
is that a bad thing? napoli’s bat is pretty good for a catcher, his only down part of his game is his arm and defence, arencibia is better in both area’s.
reply fail on my part. it was supposed to be a reply to some other guy, who said we should trade Napoli because Arencibia is better.
I honestly don’t understand that logic. Arencibia is cheaper, younger, and under control, but i honestly don’t see .800+ OPS year in year out from him. Napoli has being doing that his whole career, albeit in part-time.
Napoli can catch and call a game, its just his terrible arm holding him from all-star level. But really, difference between 25% and 35% caught stealing is like MAYBE 10-13 steals a season. Not huge.
well thank heavens your a pro scout who doesn’t see a .800 OPS from Arencibia..
AA did you read that?? Frank said he won’t OPS .800 so you should just trade him now, for nothing.
I guess his .827 minor league OPS doesn’t lead you to believe, and thats with a terrible year of .728 OPS because he couldn’t see the damn ball.
And your last point on the difference between 25%-35% caught stealing is another winner.. I wonder which catchers get run on more.. in tighter situations… creating more stolen bases… I dunno ask Victor Martinez.
.800+ OPS in minors translates to .800+ OPS in majors?
do you really see Arencibia being a better hitter than Napoli?
Maybe he can slug as much, or a bit better, but Napoli can actually walk at above average clip.
I’ll give him the D, Napoli does have a pretty bad arm.
Napoli calls a game the same way you write a post, Awfully!
This is great news for the Jays, but i’m just hoping they spend the money wisely. There’s no reason to rush this thing now, so guys like Pujols or Prince might not be on the top of their agenda. I’d obviously take Pujols over Prince (I actually have a St.Louis Pujols jersey :)), but I don’t see Pujols coming to Toronto, rather being re-signed by the Cards. Prince will hit the open market, but his body and defense really scare me, as players of his ilk usually decline very fast, so Toronto might end up with another “immovable” contract, as i’m sure Prince is going to ask for at least 6-7 years at over 100mil. I’m not sure of the upcoming free agent lists, but I think Toronto would also be looking at adding another starter to this rotation, probably an ace if they can find one. Overall it’s a great time to be a Jay fan, with good young talent already in the majors, a good farm system that is getting better, and 7 picks in the first 80 in the upcoming draft, their future looks brighter now than I can remember in the past 10 years at least. That combined with what appears to be a very competent GM, the future is looking great in Toronto.
anyone else see the irony at the end of the article? Get in good financial shape, and maybe we’ll let you Spend it 200 mil on the vegan slugger lol
As much as I never liked Rios…The sad reality is we could really use him right now and his contract isn’t all that bad.. If the Jays knew they could dump Vernon’s full contract in 2011 I doubt very much they would have let Rios walk for nothing.
Dumb JPR! i would have at least rathed him pay some of the contract and get someone of quality back, even a prospect, anything!
It was a matter of having 2 underachieving players with big contracts.. They figured they would never get rid of Wells so had to get rid of the lesser contract. .
But boy oh boy would he fit in nice with the Jays team right now. Good defense in center, 30+ stolen bases.. Still can’t take a walk, but whatever. .
meh, rios was probably one of my least favorite jays. had boatloads of talent for sure, but he never hit for us after he was in the HR derby that one year. defense was decent; good range, good arm strength – tho lost accuracy cause he threw sidearm and his ball sailed all the time. but he did too many stupid things to be considered an elite defender and never seemed to lay out either, which was annoying.
always seemed to play the game like he was on vacation and had a negative relationship with fans, media, etc. still not sorry hes gone.
Ice Hawk i never liked him either
but lets face it Alex Rios >>>>>>> Rajai Davis
yea, cant really argue there.
if only davis had 20HR power, then i’d take him over rios in a heartbeat
Rios didn’t walk. He was dealt to Chicago.
technically picked up on waiver and the waiver claim was granted by the jays without compensation.
As a citizen… Absolutely agree. As an outsider, there are many Tax loopholes to be taken advantage of. As an example, Vernon Wells was not paing more than 10% of his overall tax burden to Canada. The bulk of it was paid to the IRS and thats with the lax taxing in the state of Texasa (very similar to Florida in overall taxation).
I was up north for the weekend.. When a friend sent me a text saying Jays traded Wells.. I just replied “I’m not drunk yet” When he replied no for real.. I said “how much money did we send?”
I mean we sent 6 million to the phillies when we traded the best pitcher in baseball..How the Angels brass let this go down is baffling… . Vernon’s not a bad player, goin back over his career he’s done well, but to take that contract, that monster, undeserved contract, is just ridiculous.. . and then to give a piece up in Napoli is just, well its just tops..
My 1 concern though, is that AA is now on the radar of GM’s as a vulture.. Many of his other moves that panned out, the escobar, morrow trades were more low key, and haven’t blossomed yet.. but this move may make other GM’s more skeptical when dealing with AA.. because its so awesome. .
Nah. Teams know who they’re getting. The Angels rolled the dice and decided to pay more on a deal that only strains them for four years. Of course, paying $23/$21/$21/$21 in those four years is too much of a risk for anyone to deem all that reasonable.
Ya i never thought in a million years we could get rid of Wells contract, and to have no$$$ going there way and we get Napoli!!!!!!!!!
There must be a Heaven, because the angels took VDub:)
LOL. Comparing JP Retardy to AA is like comparing apples to bowling balls. One has a plan, the other promises one this and goes year to year trying to save his job. And getting a huge break? Thats what “Great” GM’s do. Take advantage of the misfortunes of others to benefit their franchise…
I actually think Prince Fielder will work out well in Toronto, he is a great bat and when he hits his 34-36 year range he can be a good DH for you guys.
Anthropolous deserves very serious credit from everyone in the industry for being able to move Rios and Wells the way he has. This is unprecedented.
Los Angeles Dodgers*
i cant wait to rub this in your face after the season!
Way to many alcoholics in Canada!
Bettter yet, like a Jays fan whos excited about 4th place! Only difference is Salty will be the one who exceeds expectations! Lol!
He could hardly not exceed expectation considering everyone with half a brain realize he is worthless except for you. Werent you the same one saying the sox were world series locks this time last year? How far’d they go again? Like I said, your time of reckoning will come and it will be sweet!
THIS IS LIKE WATCHING 2 CHUBBY CHICKS SAY THE OTHERS FATTER! LOL!
Heeeellllll NNOOOOO!!!!
…I think it may be time to release molina, napoli can back up JPA….and get some time at 1B and DH against lefties…
Davis
Escobar
Lind/E3
Bautista
Snider
Napoli
Hill
Rivera
JPA
The bats are nice, CF is a defensive upgrade, what will make the difference is the plethora of outstanding young arms already with the Jays, and the pipeline full of more coming up. “You can never have enough pitching” …unless you are Toronto. That’s where the talent will come from to trade for elite players to fill the gaps. Just like they traded Markum for a 20 year old 5 tool prospect who destroyed Double A as a 19 year old, and A ball the year before. It wouldn’t shock me to see Lawrie come north with the big team this spring.
It is a long shot agreed, but it’s more than possible. Lawrie and Hill cover 2nd and 3rd, who cares which one plays where. Joey Bats and his cannon stay in RF where he belongs. Drabek in the 4 slot and Scrabble/Litcsh at 5. The loser in the pen. Stewart and MacGuire all teed up and ready to go in Vegas.
At least try not to post rubbish when making a point. i never said the Sox were locks last year but i am this year! And ive got at least 5 years before i even half to worry about finishing behind a country that worships Dudley Do Right! LOL!
That is right, we worship a cartoon bumblind idiot….you on the other hand voted one in…twice
Fail!
No one will take you seriously until you learn how to spell. Just saying.
We call a bus, a būs..