Though the Rangers are out on Vladimir Guerrero, they appear interested in adding another aging but productive slugger. The team is actively trying to lure Jim Thome to Texas, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (Twitter link).
Thome posted a .283/.412/.627 line in 340 plate appearances with the Twins last year, belting 25 homers. The 20-year MLB veteran was typically productive against right-handed pitching, posting a .302/.455/.698 line against righties.
What! That makes NO Sense!
It might, depending on what other tricks JD has up his sleeve.
Yeah, hitting a gazillion home runs doesn’t make sense at all.
Uhhhh…so where’s Michael Young gonna play?
Colorado?
Platoon?
Wrigley Field (trade for Carlos Zambrano). Book it.
Umm, where would he be playing on the Cubs? They already have Aram…
Second base. Young’s a former shortstop – he can handle second.
He’s also a former second baseman.
I suppose it’s possible.
I figure Thome is for those times when MY is playing an infield position in relief of a starter and the Rangers want somebody cheap who can hit. The only problem is that Thome bats left and the Rangers should could use another right-handed hitter.
Ummm, at any given time, the Rangers only have 3 batters (4 if another DH’s, which takes MY out of the game) that are lefties: Hamilton, Borbon, Murphy, and Moreland. Sure at times you might want more righties, but how can the same not be said about lefties?
As if they haven’t already won the AL West.
The A’s starters have something to say about that.
Not trying to bash the A’s here, but I wonder what the ERAs would be of the Oakland starters in a more hitter friendly stadium…
EDIT: Figured I’d answer my own question
Cahill – Home = 2.18 Away = 3.86
Gonzalez – Home = 2.56 Away = 3.92
Anderson and Braden actually have similar road/home splits.
with that logic would you say the A’s offense if underrated because they play in a pitching friendly stadium? The entire pitching staff was top 10 in road ERA last season and top 3 in home era. We know the starters were top in MLB and very young. I think there is just as likely to be a regression as there is to be a progression by the young arms. Tough to call young top tier talent coming through the minors (Anderson and Cahill) and former top pick in Gio as overrated. There has always been potential and talent in those arms.
Don’t ask Joe to apply his faulty logic in ways that prove his point is substanceless. You’ll confuse him.
There’s nothing “substanceless” about his point. His argument, perhaps, but look around online. If you don’t buy into sabermetrics that’s your opinion which you’re entitled to (even though there’s results to prove their accuracy)… but the A’s rotation is screaming for regression.
Are they bad? Not by any means. Are they the best in the Majors like the were in 2010? Also, not by any means.
Don’t ask Joe to apply his faulty logic in ways that prove his point is substanceless. You’ll confuse him.
But as Dickalmighty said early, we cannot expect the same return from our (Rangers) rotation but how do the A’s get the benefit of the doubt and stay the same/ improve?Doesn’t add up or is just west coast bias. Plus we have more young arms and the abitlity to trade for pitching midseason if need be.
The A’s starters are so over-rated it’s not even funny.
Overrated? What the F are you talking about? The Oakland A’s had the best ERA in the AL last year. Yet, none of the A’s starters gets hyped like King Felix, CC, Cliff Lee, or any other number of “aces” in the league. If anything, the A’s starters are UNDER-rated.
I think what you meant to say was: Oakland is such a pitcher-friendly park that any SP could put up decent numbers there (same argument some people use with Petco Park). That doesn’t mean the A’s pitchers are overrated; it just means they pitch in a friendly environment.
Being precise with your words is a valuable skill. Particularly when your words are all you’ve got (which is the case here in Internet land).
Oakland’s starters led the Majors in ERA and finished 17th in FIP and 14th in xFIP. Their BABIP as a group was a completely unsustainable .275, their K/9 is among the game’s worst while their BB/9 is middle of the pack.
They’ve got a good pitching staff, but that ERA is going to come crashing back to reality in no time. You really think Trevor Cahill can sustain his 2.97 ERA? The majority of the online community will disagree with you.
Nope: Don’t think they can sustain that BABIP, ansd don’t think Cahill is going to have a sub-3.00 ERA next season. You are swinging at straw men.
I was responding Junior BallBag’s point: “The A’s starting pitchers are so over-rated it’s not even funny.” If you can show me a publication touting the A’s pitchers as the best in the AL, or even as a top three rotation in the AL, then point me to it. (As you say, the online community thinks the A’s pitchers are due for a regression; thus, they are not being “overrated” by the online community.)
As far as I can see, the A’s pitchers are not rated highly; certainly not as highly-rated as you might expect them to be coming off a season in which they posted a league-high ERA. The only point I was making was that the A’s pitchers can’t be overrated if they’re not highly-rated, which they’re not.
Nope: Don’t think they can sustain that BABIP, ansd don’t think Cahill is going to have a sub-3.00 ERA next season. You are swinging at straw men.
I was responding Junior BallBag’s point: “The A’s starting pitchers are so over-rated it’s not even funny.” If you can show me a publication touting the A’s pitchers as the best in the AL, or even as a top three rotation in the AL, then point me to it. (As you say, the online community thinks the A’s pitchers are due for a regression; thus, they are not being “overrated” by the online community.)
As far as I can see, the A’s pitchers are not rated highly; certainly not as highly-rated as you might expect them to be coming off a season in which they posted a league-high ERA. The only point I was making was that the A’s pitchers can’t be overrated if they’re not highly-rated, which they’re not.
They can say anything they want, there’s nothing they can do about it.
yeah but the A’s offense is hiding in the corner while the starts are trying to say”hey we can win if you guys get us some damn runs”
They must be pretty confident they can ditch Young.
They aren’t ditching Young. Thome likely would at best platoon with MY at DH and at worst, be a benchwarmer most of the season.
He could play first? I wouldn’t take too much stock in this rumor though; Olney is not to be trusted.
This comment was supposed to be a reply to Greg Alway about what the Rangers should do with Young. I am not suggesting that Thome play first.
If they keep Young, he’ll play first. He’s worth more to someone else as a 3B/2B than to Texas as a 1B, though.
Not necessarily, his defense at second/short/third has shown to be pretty damn terrible, and those are all positions that value defense much more than first base. Plus, I would count on Young hitting at a significantly better clip than Moreland.
I’m pretty sure Young has played 1B before at SOME point, and I don’t think his lack of big league experience will factor in too much. Mitch Moreland couldn’t even pick the ball when he first came up.
I guess, but they seem pretty high on Moreland.
I believe he was actually a second baseman before he was a shortstop, so yeah. Just as a heads up though, he sucks defensively, no matter where he plays.
They are trying to lure him, doesn’t mean hes gonna sign with them. He’s looking for 7-8 million a year since he only got 1.5 last year haha I’m not sure anyones gonna pay him that much, so he may hold out in hope of getting close to that for a bit. I like Thome, but would only give him around 4 or 5 a year.
Weren’t they going to have Michael Young bat DH? What is the deal with the Rangers this off-season?
Young to the Cubs for Zambrano makes no sense either. Zambrano cannot get through a season without imploding. He’s way too expensive. He can’t bat in the AL.
Young can’t play third for the Cubs until after Ramirez’ annual injury, so you’re making him a super expensive second baseman.
But until Young is traded there’s no room for Thome on the roster.
Not to mention that Zambrano is a huge clubhouse issue..
That wouldn’t matter as long as the Rangers keep waiving players off the roster. Maybe they will jettison Feldman this time. I wouldn’t miss him.
Thome is only being added as an off the bench platoon player. When a lefty is pitching Young will play first and Thome will DH.
Against lefties? Thome’s a lefty and has a huge platoon split going the other way. Vlad or Manny Ramirez would make much more sense.
And cost more too more than likely. Vlad wants too much and Manny talks too much.
I’m aware Thome is alot better against righties but he will be more likely to take a platoon role than Vlad or Manny. He’s better against Lefties then Moreland who will be the one who sits. Also he could get alot of time at DH because Kinsler can’t stay healthy for a full season and Young would take over 2nd for that time.
I have mixed feelings. My heart says, come back Thome. My head says he’s redundant in our lineup and no way would I want the Twins to overpay (my heart says no to overpaying too).
Thome’s great, but he can’t hit lefties and Kubel can’t either. The Twins need a RH bat to platoon with either one of them.
I know it’s kind of a random name, but why not Jermaine Dye? He could probably be had for a few million, he knows the division, and when he’s right, he a pretty good presence. If the contract had a buyout in case he tanks, it would be a solid signing.
Dye could work. He does hit lefties well. I don’t know if he’d want to be a platoon player though. This is the guy who basically said “pay me or I’ll take my ball and go home.”
His attitude alone may take him off the Twins radar. If he could be had for 2-3 million, it could work..but I’m just not sure the Twins would do it.
If the Twins are going to spend some $$$ on a DH, I think Vlady makes more sense than Thome.
Still, you would hate to see Thome go. That 2 run, walk off blast he hit last year off Thornton was my favorite baseball moment of 2010. Hawk Harrelson was speechless.
I was at that game, easily the best game I attended and possibly the best Twins game in 2010. I love Thome, wanted him on the Twins for many, many years. That was a dream come true.
It does make more sense to go after Vlad. If they truely want the same amount of money or somewhere around it, then it makes even more sense.
Your joy of watching the Sox lose must have been the bright spot of your season, “impatientcubfan”.
Anytime Hawk Harrelson is speechless would qualify as a great baseball moment.
Jim Thome,
Stick to with what you know. The pitching of the American League Central!
I think you got his splits stats against righties wrong, it should be .302/.455/.698
? Typo. .302/.455/.698 vs. RHP in 2010.
On a minore note, while he did hit righties well, his slash stats were actually .302/.455/.698.
Can’t hurt adding a big bat
Even with Michael Young in the picture, I still think Thome is a pretty good fit. They could jettison Mitch Moreland and play Thome at first base on some days. Even if his UZR there is probably appaling, he’ll more than make up for it by destroying RHP. And a lineup with Kinsler, Cruz, Beltre, Hamilton, Andrus, and Thome would be pretty potent.
Thome wouldn’t last a week playing the field – his back’s balky enough at DH.
The last time Thome played a position was 2007 and he did it for one game. You do not want Thome on the field, unless you want to watch him hurt himself.
He’s strickly a part time DH, can’t even be a full time DH because of his back.
So he only faced RHP last year?
.241/.298/.471 vs lefties. He looks bad facing lefties.
HAHAHA watching thome out in the field would be a sight
This makes no sense at all to me. Why Thome and not Vladdy if the end game is to trade Young?A lot of people want to anoint John Daniels as god among GM’s…but ill never forgive him for the Danks Mccarthey fiasco. or the Adrian Gonzales Chris young trade for three guys Ive completely forgot even played for us(C Billy Killian (minors), RP Akinori Otsuka and SP Adam Eaton) shows you how good that one was. The Texeira deal is really all hes got to stake is fame on and that was not a hard move to make. Im not super fast to credit him for bringing in Lee last year either..It was just a matter of having the guys Seattle wanted more for him then any other team out there..not like he cooked up the deal from the start.
i can blame him for the gonzalez trade….
what going into the danks trade said mccarthy wasn’t every bit the pitcher danks was? it didn’t turn out that way, but you can’t tell me from the minor league numbers and consensus at the time, that mccarthy wasn’t on track to be a very good pitcher.
how about david murphy/engel beltre? how about josh hamilton? how about sticking with nelson cruz? how about going and finding colby lewis? how about the depth of the farm system?
yea the tex trade was cake. salty looked like a nice obvious target and main piece. who were the supplementary pieces? the ones that actually produced for the rangers named andrus, feliz and harrison. feliz was a nothing at the time. guess JD got lucky.
all he did was decide to change the direction of the team entirely in 2007 to see it pay off well ahead of schedule with a good year in 09 and a great 2010.
and yea, ill go ahead and say i think thome is a much much better fit than vlad.
This must be part of a plot to get Manny Ramirez to Minnesota.
I don’t see that happening ever. The Twins have character standards.
Hence the trade for Delmon Young a couple years ago…
Have you heard of Delmon doing anything bad while with the Twins? Nope, because the players/team won’t allow it. He’s matured a lot and was young and stupid when he threw that bat.
Manny isn’t young. His days of being an immature idiot should be in the past but they aren’t. He puts himself before the team and gives whatever effort he feels like on any given day…and it’s usually a crappy one.
None of those things can be said about Delmon. Manny on any team creates the Manny show. Delmon is not that guy.
Let me try this again, my other post had to go through moderate approval for some reason. It’ll probably show up eventually…
Delmon did have a few issues 4-5 years ago. He threw a bat, and I’m not sweeping that under a rug, but he was 20 years old. I don’t know about you, but it’s rare for me to find a mature 20 year old in this world. Most 20 year old’s aren’t. No offense to the mature 20 year old’s out there that get a bad rap for this fact.
Since arriving with the Twins Delmon has done nothing wrong, he’s had no character problems. He did one thing wrong when he was 20 years old. He said it was wrong and he’s done nothing since. The only issues I’ve heard of is that he didn’t want to listen to the Twins batting coach. I wouldn’t call that a “character” issue like Manny. I honestly believe he has trust issues, but that is my opinion, not fact. He only took batting advice after his mother died and the team rallied around him (donated money in his mother’s honor and told him they had his back).
Manny is all about Manny. He’s almost 40 years old and he still hasn’t grown up. He continuously does the wrong thing. He decides if and when he will put effort into his job. To me, he’s actually the opposite of Delmon as none of these things have ever applied to Delmon that I known of.
They’re two different guys at two completely different times in their lives. Delmon was an immature kid who seems to have grown out of it completely. Manny’s an immature man and his games continue.
I can see this. Thome might come cheap and they need a pop bat to insert into the DH spot when MY is playing a position.
Thome might come cheap? He’s looking for $8MM. Granted, he won’t get that somewhere, but if the Rangers offer him $4MM and a bench role, while the Rays offer $4MM and a starting DH spot, where do you think he’s going to go?
Thome will want a bigger role and a big paycheck. He makes no sense for Texas.
DH’s aren’t selling right now. Manny wants more. Vlad wants more. Out of that bunch, Thome would be the easiest target. The Rangers might offer him 4 or 5 and incentives, at best. If the Rays offer 4 or more and the starting role, then yes, he would turn down the Rangers…assuming the Rays don’t instead sign Vlad or Manny or somebody else, though…right?
I speculated that Thome might go cheaply…to the reigning AL Champs. Would you like to play a full season starting for a team that was beaten by the Champs or play less for the actual Champs?
Remember that Young will most likely back up all 4 infield positions, most likely playing 50% of the time on the field, which would allow Thome the 300+ ABs he got last year.
And he had back trouble while getting those 300+ ABs. I think giving him more will be pushing it, as he’s only getting older. I can think of 1-2 weeks worth of games where the Twins wanted to put him into games, but couldn’t because of his back.
If Thome’s is used as he should be, a bench bat and part time DH..nothing more, than he should be getting nowhere near 8 million. Asking for 300+ again is taking a huge risk. If he can do it, it’ll be a huge reward, no doubt…but who knows.
Thome might come cheap? He’s looking for $8MM. Granted, he won’t get that somewhere, but if the Rangers offer him $4MM and a bench role, while the Rays offer $4MM and a starting DH spot, where do you think he’s going to go?
Thome will want a bigger role and a big paycheck. He makes no sense for Texas.
Michael Young is going to get Lowelled… every team has leverage in any trade scenario so he will be shopped and offered for a fungo bat and a bag of balls and its pretty apparent even though he is classy (Like Lowell) he obviously isnt in the Rangers’ plans as of late and thats sad.
Can he pitch?
2010:
Thome .283 /.412 /.627
Vlad .300 /.345 /.496
Manny .298 /.409 /.460
2010:
Thome .283 /.412 /.627
Vlad .300 /.345 /.496
Manny .298 /.409 /.460
sad, but baseball. he’s been there 10 years. he was once good with the glove and bat. then his glove trailed off a little bit. Once he was finally, and thankfully, moved off of short, michael young became a very very average baseball asset, and thanks to paying him for past service (which they undoubtedly did) he is now an unmovable contract that can’t hit like a DH/1B, and can’t play the field like a 2B/SS or even 3B
sad, but baseball. he’s been there 10 years. he was once good with the glove and bat. then his glove trailed off a little bit. Once he was finally, and thankfully, moved off of short, michael young became a very very average baseball asset, and thanks to paying him for past service (which they undoubtedly did) he is now an unmovable contract that can’t hit like a DH/1B, and can’t play the field like a 2B/SS or even 3B
vlad had such a great year last year , why not resign him? thome is good but i think vlad is better right now , is it money or do the rangers need a lefty , i guess they did just sign another righty (beltre), maybe the rangers will trade young for big z
Vlad was terrible in the second half of last season and looked even worse in the playoffs. I think the Rangers are afraid he’s done. After a great first few months of the season, he seemed to lose bat speed and just look old. As a Ranger fan, I don’t want him back.
Pre All Star: .319/.364/.554
Post All Star: .278/.322/.426
agreed. obviously his 2nd half numbers weren’t great. his OBP is completely carried by his average. wastes a huge number of at bats first ball swinging, and bad ball swinging. don’t get me wrong, its magical and truly amazing when he crushes the ball, or hammers a ball that 95% of the league couldn’t get wood on. he’s one of the most gifted pure baseball hitters that i have EVER seen. it just can’t go on forever.
Vlad was terrible in the second half of last season and looked even worse in the playoffs. I think the Rangers are afraid he’s done. After a great first few months of the season, he seemed to lose bat speed and just look old. As a Ranger fan, I don’t want him back.
Pre All Star: .319/.364/.554
Post All Star: .278/.322/.426
Poor Michael Young.
“Michael, we need you to move to shortstop for Ian Kinsler.”
“Michael, we need you to move to third base for Andrus.”
“Michael, we need you to move to DH for Adrian Beltre.”
“Michael, we ned you to warm the bench for Jim Thome or GTFO of our organization.”
Isn’t it fun to be a team player?
Right… because Thome will suddenly DOUBLE his ABs from 2010 AND back-up all the infield positions so that Young has nothing to do… It’s WAY more likely that Young will be the DH and Thome will be the back-up for when Young is spelling a guy.
“Michael, heres 16 million dollars and 700 PAs.”
“Michael, heres 16 million dollars and 700 PAs.”
“Michael, heres 16 million dollars and 700 PAs.”
“Michael, heres 16 million dollars and 700 PAs.”
And he didn’t move to shortstop for Ian Kinsler, he did for Soriano… but SS is a more prestigious position so how is that bad?
He moved to third for a far superior defender. Thats smart.
He moved to DH/utility for a far superior defender. Thats smart.
He is not going to be a bench warmer. If the Rangers get a DH then he will play 1b a lot.. which he’d probably prefer to DH…
My thoughts exactly. The guy has to feel like Milton from Office Space at this point.
“We’re gonna need to move your office again…”
That’s a fair point. The Rangers do have some prospect depth to deal for an arm if they need to bolster their rotation during the season.
Also, I fully acknowledge that the A’s rotation will likely regress this season; I just think a regression in Oakland still yields a good rotation (because the A’s starters are all young and getting better, and they still pitch in Oakland’s offense-suffocating stadium), whereas a regression in Texas (plus the loss of Cliff Lee) will yield a fairly average rotation.
I’d still put the Rangers as the favorite over the A’s and the Angels. I just wouldn’t say the Rangers have it in the bag, or that the Rangers are a juggernaut.
You DO know that Lee was only AVERAGE in Texas, right?
That’s a fair point. The Rangers do have some prospect depth to deal for an arm if they need to bolster their rotation during the season.
Also, I fully acknowledge that the A’s rotation will likely regress this season; I just think a regression in Oakland still yields a good rotation (because the A’s starters are all young and getting better, and they still pitch in Oakland’s offense-suffocating stadium), whereas a regression in Texas (plus the loss of Cliff Lee) will yield a fairly average rotation.
I’d still put the Rangers as the favorite over the A’s and the Angels. I just wouldn’t say the Rangers have it in the bag, or that the Rangers are a juggernaut.