The latest on the Yankees from Joel Sherman of the New York Post, as the Bronx Bombers trickle down to Florida for the start of another Spring Training…
- The Yankees have zero interest in Carlos Delgado. The longtime Blue Jays slugger wants to play in 2011, but hasn’t been getting much interest so far.
- The Yankees checked in on Jarrod Washburn earlier in the winter, but talks did not progress much. However, the Yankees would consider Washburn if he’s willing to accept a minor league deal like Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon did.
- The Yankees had interest in Carl Pavano but didn’t want to surrender a draft pick for the former Yankee, so they discussed a scenario that would have seen the Diamondbacks sign Pavano and trade him to New York for prospects. The Yankees could have kept their draft picks and worked out a deal with Arizona GM Kevin Towers, who worked for the Yankees last year and knows their farm system well. The D’Backs would have lost their second-round pick (63rd overall) to the Twins had they signed Pavano.
Leave it to the Yankees to find a way to cheat the system…
Please explain
The Yankees would be abusing draft pick compensation that should be in place for signing a player like Pavano if they involved the D-backs. The Twins would only receive a 2nd round pick (from Arizona) in that scenario, versus the Yankees 1st round pick. The Yankees would still have to give something to the D-back, but in that scenario it would be considerably less.
They essentially abused the draft pick compensation system when they signed 3 type A FAs in 2009 (Teixeira, Sabathia and Burnett). Milwaukee (3rd round pick) and Toronto (2nd round pick) got screwed. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that they are finding new ways to cheat the system.
Then wouldn’t every team other than the Yankees cheating the revenue system/luxury tax because they are not putting all the money back into the team?
I can see logic in that… But remember, this is a business. Even the Yankees know that.
Then how can you crap on the Yankees for trying to do a sign and swap? They aren’t the first ones to do so. They are running a business too.
The sign and trade with the D-backs has to deal with draft picks, not money. My comment about baseball being a business has to do with the luxury tax.
So when the Yankees use the system that’s in place to their advantage, it’s cheating. When the other clubs use the system that’s in place to their afavantage it’s Business. Sounds fair. What team do you root for again?
Doesn’t matter which team I root for. My comments say that the Yankees are “abusing” the system, not “using it to their advantage.”
You’re quite the contradiction, huh.
If you admit this is a business, then wouldn’t signing 3 free agents to field the best possible team, and therefore put people in seats to build revenue be in line with your “this is a business” philosophy? C’mon man…
It sounds like you have an issue with “the system” rather than the Yankees, though.
Get your haterade right, dawg. Don’t hate the playa, hate the game.
EDIT: Actually, don’t hate the game, literally, as in baseball. Just the system.
Actually, I agree completely. “The system” is what is wrong. The Yankees are simply the product of a system gone wrong.
The 2009 scenario is not the same as this. What happened in 2009 is something the rules contemplate- when they were drafted, everyone knew that in a given year a team might very well sign more than one Type A free agent, and they set up rules to deal with it.
This is totally different- this is two GM’s conspiring to screw another team over.
I can’t think of another example of this ever having been done (and, to be fair, it didn’t actually happen here either, so can’t really hold this against the Yankees). If it had happened, I am guessing the Twins would have asked Selig to step in.
Having said all that- the compensation system in baseball is totally screwed up. Teams should be required to actually have the necessary draft pick that is supposed to be surrendered if they want to sign someone. Better still, create a formula where every pick is given a value based on how high it is overall, and make it that a team has to surrender that value, rather than a specific pick. So, if a team signs more than one Type A, then they don’t just lose their first two picks, they lose additional picks, including potentially the picks the team may acquire from losing it’s own free agents.
Isn’t that almost the exact same thing that the Braves and Rays did with each other for Soriano basically?
The Soriano trade didn’t hurt another club. In this scenario, the Twins would get a 2nd round pick instead of a 1st round pick.
Soriano was a higher ranked Type A free agent so they wouldn’t have received a 1st rnd pick anyway and I think the Yanks would’ve still gone after Soriano even if they signed Pavano.
Then Red Sox are cheating too if they have already extended AGon and waiting for Opening Day to announce the deal to avoid the luxury tax.
It’s not cheating what the Yankees and Red Sox are trying to do, just being creative. It doesn’t hurt anyone nor grants them any advantage.
Bill Smith begs to disagree with “it doesn’t hurt anyone”.
It would have screwed the Twins out of a 1st round pick. That said, the Yankees were only trying to exploit an already-broken system.
How does it hurt the Twins? You are blindly assuming Pavano (Type A) was going to sign with a team with an unprotected 1st round draft pick. That’s a huge assumption, especially with Pavano’s salary demands. He could have signed with another team with a protected 1st round pick or with a team that has signed multiple Type A free agents already and gotten nothing in return.
If the Dbacks had signed Pavano the Twins would have received a 2nd round draft pick instead of getting stuck with a $16.5mil contract for Pavano for 2 years and not being able to offer him arbitration when he hits FA again.
Um, what?
The story is that the Yankees wanted Pavano, but didn’t want to lose their 1st round pick, so they were going to have Arizona sign him. Minnesota would have received Arizona’s 2nd round pick instead of the Yankees’ 1st.
If you can’t understand how this would have hurt the Twins, well, there’s really nothing more for me to discuss with you. I’m just sorry the public school system failed you so badly.
Did you really read my post or just spewed some ignorant comment then tried to take a cheap shot at me about my education?
I did read your post, and it makes no sense.
“You are blindly assuming Pavano (Type A) was going to sign with a team with a protected 1st round pick”
Wrong. The article suggests the Yankees (unprotected) wanted to sign him, but were instead trying to get a team with a protected pick to sign-and-trade. I’m assuming nothing.
“He could have signed with another team…”
Sure, he could have done a million things. But the article suggests the Yankees wanted to get him in a sign-and-trade to preserve their 1st-round pick. Any other hypotheticals are irrelevant.
“Twins would have received a 2nd round pick instead of getting stuck…”
Again, irrelevant. The fact of the matter, which you seem oblivious to, is the Yanks were trying to get Arizona to sign-and-trade. Which would have been exploiting the free agency system, and hurt the Twins.
Did you really read the article or just spewed some ignorant comment then got upset when someone took a cheap shot at your education?
You do know that the word “suggest” does not mean that it’s a fact right? If Cashman did not wanted to surrender their 1st pick for Soriano, why in hell would they surrender it for Pavano who screw the organization up a few years ago? The Twin had zero chance in getting a 1st round pick regardless of whether the sign and trade. Cashman was dead set on having his 1st round pick and that’s the only reason why they considered a sign a trade scenario. If the sign and trade thing doesn’t work out the Yankees wouldn’t keep pursuing Pavano and the Twins will not get their 1st round draft pick. You are assuming that the Twin were destined to get a 1st round draft pick just because Pavano was Type A and because the Yankees showed interest in Pavano and the Twin were set to get their 1st round pick.
Again with the word exploit. How are the Yankees exploiting the draft system when there’s even a rule (not prohibiting it) about a sign and trade? As long as Pavano agreed to getting traded there’s no exploiting anything. It would be just a regular transaction. Would you say the Yankees deliberately screwed the Brewers in 2009 by signing Texieira and handing the Angels a higher draft pick? No because it’s a regular transaction, the way the draft system works, same as the a sign and trade.
The purpose of the compensation system is to take from the rich and give to the poor. If a team is signing a talented free agent, they send a draft pick to the team that can’t afford to keep them anymore. It’s designed to maintain some competitive balance – otherwise the Rays wouldn’t have a prayer in a division with Boston/NY.
The Yankees apparently explored circumventing that system, to avoid losing a top draft pick while still gaining a very talented free agent. Yes, “exploit” is the proper word. Grab a dictionary instead of simply reaching for indignation.
That’s all there is to it. It’s really quite sad it needs to be explained so painfully.
But I’m tired of trying to educate someone who clearly doesn’t care to read that articles posted or the MLB’s compensation process. Rock on with your bad “I’ma huge defender of Yankee yay go Jeter!!!1!” self.
The purpose of the compensation system is not to take from the rich and give to the poor. It is to balance competitiveness, regardless of whether you are rich or poor. Rich teams also offer arbitration to players not because they can’t afford said player.
Exploit, the way you are using it is wrong because you are using it in a negative way. Sign and trade is not even a violation of the rules. In no sense did the Yankees were trying to do a sign and trade deal to short-change the Twins. YOU are the one who thinks the Yankees are out there trying to screw the Twins.
Maybe you are the one who needs some education.
I will look it up for you…
Exploit: to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one’s own ends.
Whether or not it is “by the rules” it is still exploitation. Also, the Yankees “didn’t want to surrender a draft pick,” which is short-changing the Twins.
Wow, just wow. How is a sign and trade unethical? Unjustly? Just because the Twins are not getting a 1st rounder for Pavano doesn’t make it unethical or unjustly. That’s how the system can works. So regardless of whether you violate the rules or not, it’s exploiting because it’s the Twins and they won’t be getting what they want. You do realize that the Twins are just the middle guy right? Twins have so saying whatsoever in this situation and can only benefit from it (whether they get a 1st or 2nd rounder). The deal is between Pavano and the Dbacks and then the Yankees. Again, the Twins play no part at all in the deal because they are NOT involved, they are just the 3rd guy waiting to collect the loot.
I NO RITE? SINE n TRADZ ARRE TOTALY UNHRD OV.
how about the sox and gonzalez “have a deal in place” so they can avoid the luxury tax?
I agree, that is exploiting the system also.
hahahahahha……reeks of Yankee desperation
So when the Yanks spend millions were desperate and that’s bad for baseball? When we don’t do much and the GM covers all possibilities then we are desperate?
Weren’t the Twins and any other team that attempts to sign Pavano desperate as well then?
You always spend millions so you can’t really discount that in any scenario, but you should probably do yourself a favour and stop responding to these trolls.
its like george steinbrenner is here and leaving the comments.
george would kick you as s if you saw that
Circle the wagons!
Yes, yes… and the end of civilization as we know is fast approaching!
All because they could not sign Cliff Lee. Oh the humanity of it all!
I thought it was against the rules to trade a FA before June 1…
Not exactly. You can make the trade as long as you have the player’s permission.
Remember when the Yankees almost made a trade for Washburn when he was with Seattle a few years back. I think the center piece was Gardner? Glad that didn’t happen!
It wasn’t Gardner. It was a deadline deal and the M’s were asking for too much I think.
Check this out…
link to mlbtraderumors.com
Mariners asked for Melky AND Gardner. Wow. And this is when Melky had value, if I recall correctly. Further down that page, Peter Abraham suggest Kei Igawa… now that I would support.
If Cashman had brought Pavano back to the Boogie Down, losing a draft pick would have been the least of his worries.
hahaa well said.
The move wouldn’t have been popular for sure, but I think Pavano is a different pitcher than he was his first stint in NY. The expectations would be less and I believe he could have performed just fine for them. He’s got more playoff experience at this point in his career as well. I think it was a good plan, unlike the poster who suggested it was “cheating the system”. It’s within the rules.
But that’s what we said about Javy…
Reflex.
I don’t know why the Jays do not have interest in Delgado. Easily sign him to a minor league deal, bringing him back home. Adds depth to their bench which is lacking in a decent bat, and just may bring some fans back in.
I agree. Pavano would be the last person I would expect to see in a Yanks uniform. Maybe as a dummy mexican pinata but that’s it.
I think Pavano’s picture is still hanging in the Central Post Office on the Grand Concourse.
Washburn doesn’t seem to make sense for the Yankees anyway. If he took a minor league deal then fine, otherwise there’s no point in adding him to the roster, he’s just not very good. A no-risk deal would be fine, take a chance, but anything guaranteed would have been a mistake in that division.
So the Yankees where willing to give up prospect(s) to Arizona in order to trade for Pavano but weren’t willing to give up a draft pick? That would seem to mean that the prospects there were willing to trade would have been pretty much worthless. So, why would Arizona give up a draft pick to get back useless prospects? Maybe because the pick they’d give up was so low? I don’t know, the Yankees would give up prospects and money instead of a draft pick and money. The Twins would get a prospect and save some money but lose Pavano, and Arizona would lose a draft pick and gain little in the way of prospects. Can’t really see that being a good deal for anyone, except Pavano. I guess if that had happened then the team with the best scouts would have probably won that deal.
It’s a fine deal for Arizona and New York, assuming they agree that the prospects are fair.
It’s a horrible deal for Minnesota, because they have no say in the matter whatsoever – they simply get shafted out of a draft pick to the gain of Arizona and New York.
You make it sound like the Twins have ANY saying at all in who can sign players who they have offered arbitration to.
Seriously. Go study the compensation process, its design, and its purpose. Then come back and post on the topic.
You’re making Yankee fanbois look bad.
It is not the compensation that should have been sent to the Twins if Pavano is a Yankee. Plain and simple.
And seriously, you are making Yankee fans look bad.
You’re really starting to like that insult.
Wow, really mature… I am done trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. You have proven that it is not possible.
Wait…were we really having an intelligent conversation? Maybe it felt that way for you.
“They essentially abused the draft pick compensation system when they signed 3 type A FAs in 2009 (Teixeira, Sabathia and Burnett). Milwaukee (3rd round pick) and Toronto (2nd round pick) got screwed. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that they are finding new ways to cheat the system”.
So the Yanks ONLY reason for signing more than 1 Type A free agent was because it allowed them to avoid losing multiple 1st rnd picks? It had nothing to do with their needs? They didn’t just lose Abreu, Pavano, Giambi, Mussina, I-Rod and Wang to either free agency, retirement or injury?
The whole “Pavano/Twins” issue was valid even though I didn’t agree w/ you. The whole “Yanks abused the Free Agenct Comp system by signing CC, Tex and Burnett” was nothing short of being absurd.
The fact that you started off your 1st post w/ ” Leave it to the Yankees…” tells me how you feel about the Yanks anyway.
If you want to talk about system abuse I can write a whole diatribe about it if I felt anyone cared or that it would matter. It doesn’t so ….
Well you aren’t very intelligent if you think the Yankees “cheat the system”.
Everyone knows that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent the Red Sox and Phillies, “play by a different set of rules” than the rest of the league. Granted, the system is flawed in the first place, but those teams take advantage of those flaws.
Very good, and fair, post.
Signing multiple Type A’s is completely kosher, and the system worked properly in that situation.
Seducing a third-party into a sign-and-trade is exploiting a loophole in the system. Are the Yankees “bad” for (reportedly) pursuing that? No. But the loophole needs to be fixed, because it’s pretty clear that gaming the system to screw a team out of the compensation the system was designed to create is unacceptable.
If the Yankees Red Sox and Phillies won the World Series year after year, I can see the cause for concern. But baseball has had 9 different WS champions the past 10 years and 22 champions the past 30 years. So long as the same teams do not keep winning, there should be no cause for concern. If you hate the system, go watch a league with a salary cap which despite the salary cap, it more often than not repeats its champions, like how bout the NBA, which has had only 5 teams win in the last 10 years and 8, I repeat, EIGHT, in the last 30 years.
I never even mentioned a salary cap, so where did that come from? I stated that the Yankees play by a different set of rules.
“Play by a different set of rules”? I believe you swing the bat, hit the ball, and run to first base, then second, then third, and if you reach home plate that constitutes one run. Now if these are not the rules they play by, please inform me the “Yankee, Red Sox, and Phillie’s” rules.
As far as a sign-and-trade goes, it’s not like this author just made up the word “sign-and-trade” to create this story. Therefore, this MUST have happened in the past and it actually happens MUCH more often than you think. It makes complete sense when you think of it too, because what the D-Backs are going to get in the second-round (63rd overall) is one decent player, most likely. The Yankees trading you multiple playerS (plural, meaning more than one) from their proven farm system seems like a much better situation to me if I’m the D-Backs. No idea where you come up with this “different set of rules” or “cheating the system”.