When the Yankees wined and dined Carl Crawford during last December's winter meetings, most assumed he was their backup plan to Cliff Lee. Crawford agreed to a deal with the Red Sox before the end of the meetings and Lee eventually went back to the Phillies, but GM Brian Cashman told ESPN New York he was never really interested in signing the outfielder in the first place…
"I actually had dinner with the agent to pretend that we were actually involved and drive the price up," said Cashman. "The outfield wasn't an area of need, but everybody kept writing Crawford, Crawford, Crawford, Crawford. And I was like, 'I feel like we've got Carl Crawford in Brett Gardner, except he costs more than $100 million less, with less experience.'"
Interestingly enough, Crawford said he didn't believe the Yankees were serious about signing him back in March. "If the Yankees want somebody they go out and get them, don't they?," he asked, and aside from Lee, he's generally correct. Crawford is hitting .259/.295/.410 with only 18 steals in the first year of his seven-year, $142MM contract. Gardner, on the other hand, is hitting .261/.347/.374 with an AL leading 46 stolen bases. He also leads all players in UZR (regardless of position) for the second straight year, and will be arbitration-eligible for the first time this winter.
Within the same ESPN NY piece, Cashman acknowledged that his offseason moves turned out better than expected. "What I said was accurate: The Red Sox had a great winter, and I had a bad winter," he said. "But as it turned out, I had a better winter than anybody would've expected, including myself." Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia have combined for a 3.90 ERA in one out shy of 300 innings, the main reasons Cashman's offseason was surprisingly successful.
Congrats, Cashman, for doing something GMs are supposed to do.
Yeah, having more money than any other team and still not winning the world series as often as you should have. Let’s see him manage a team where they don’t hand out blank checks. He’s “Smithers”…
U mad bro?
He mad.
I guess you missed all the small signing he did last winter, just has if he was managing a small budget team.
Really! Vincent’s post would be kinda incredible anyway — it’s doubly so when it appears directly underneath a story whose main point is that Cash signed Colon and Garcia for peanuts and got three-hundred outs of sub-4.00ERA pitching from them.
Let’s face it – he got lucky. But at least he did his due diligence and signed a multitude of players from which perhaps one or two would pitch well enough to help out the team.
This may have been one of the most well played off seasons from B. Cash I have seen. It’s pretty easy to sign the Sabathias and Teixeiras with the Yankee checkbook, but what he did this past offseason (signing all the pitchers in case one works out, NOT trading Montero or Nova or Banuelos or Betances, other small signings) really elevates his game.
Sadly, all this will be lost on the haters who only bash Cash for the $ he spends.
He got lucky and had to become a GM for a change because his prize target in Lee said no to the blank check.
Even a blind dog finds a couple of bones once in awhile.
Somebody needs a Hug…. Don’t worry, Theo Epstein is on his way…
Driving up the price on crawford? Smart move. Admitting to it? Dumb move.
How is it dumb?
Because you lose credibility with free agents, who don’t want to be used in this way and may feel slighted and more importantly you lose credibility with other teams. Next time the Red Sox will be more hesitant to believe the Yanks faux interest. Ultimately I don’t think it’s a major issue, but this is the kind of thing you should play close to your chest.
This is old news to begin with. Cashman told Jack Curry this in March.
“who don’t want to be used in this way and may feel slighted” all players want to be used this way, it helps them get more money.
Unless the team you’re driving the price up on is someone who DOESN’T have the far and away highest payroll in American sports. What if his ploy backfires and the Sox and Angels outright back off on Crawford because they feel the price is too high (Ala the Teixeira negotiations). If it comes to that, Cashman’s got two choices, either overpay for someone he professes he doesn’t really need to begin with OR put himself in a very bad position for future free agent negotiations.
Does it, though? I think every agent is totally okay with an audience with Cashman during free agency. It only helps drive the price up. That’s why everyone wants to get the Yanks and Sox involved.
Cashman is shrewd enough to not sign Crawford, or any other player in your scenario that he doesn’t really want. UNLESS the price comes WAY down and it is a risk worth stomaching.
Another possibility that Obsessions is overlooking is that if the Sox and Angels had balked at the driven-up price of Crawford, Cash could’ve signed him for an amount that made his lower level of interest in him a non-factor. Yes, we had Gardner and Granderson and Siwsh, and to that extent we didn’t have to “be interested” in Crawford, but for the right price I’m sure Cash would *also* have signed him, which is exactly what the price would’ve been if the Sox and Angels had flinched, because nobody else was bidding.
Literally, all he did was have dinner with him. I heard zero about him offering Crawford a contract.
and having the “COLLECTIVE” highest payroll in sports has nothing to do with handing out a $140 mil deal that has been trumped by many other teams already.
Haha…I would not be shocked if Crawford asked Cashman out to dinner and sent a limo to pick him up and then texted messaged every sportswriter he had in his BB to tell them about it.
If anything, shouldn’t the free agents be happy someone is driving their price up? That’s why they are free agents, they want money.
Pretty sure that Cashman knows what he is doing better than you
Lose Credibility with free agents? Really?
-Which agent doesn’t wanna rise the price of his player up? That’s the reason they create bidding wars…. You can expect a dinner with Dan Lozano [Pujol’s Agent] and Boras [Fielder’s Agent] this winter.
-Next time the Red Sox [and other teams] won’t know for sure if the Yankees are In or Not, way I see it; that’s an advantage.
yea, this is a brand new tactic
It’ll make other agents they want to court in the future suspicious of their motives. And any player that values honesty will have another reason not to want to associate with the Yankees organization.
Right, because players don’t want to come to the Yankees.
LOL
Lee didn’t.
Lee wanted to, but once he hit free agency his main objective was to get more money in the short term, though even if his motives were suspicious, we know that once his current contract runs out he’ll be unable to sign for a high amount of money since he’ll be almost retired.
Wait what? he’s only getting 11 millin this year, Phillies want to avoid the luxury task so they backloaded him.
Yes but the Phillies offered him a higher salary per year than the Yankees. Do the math.
Amen — seems like a bizarre argument to me, at least, that a player won’t in the future want to have dinner with Brian Cashman, on the fear that Cashman might elevate the player’s eventual price with some other team.
That’s not how the luxury tax works. It is the AAV of the deal that’s is used for luxury tax purposes, not the actual amount earned per year.
I’m honestly surprised that no one else caught that (myself included).
I don’t think that’s the case.
It is
Players were fans once too. I know that if I was a major league player I wouldnt sign with the yankees no matter how much they were willing to pay.
Principles fade when someone waggles 100 Million dollars in your face.
So if you grew up as a Pirates fan when you were kid and now in 2012 you’re a free agent are you really not going to sign with a team that gives you a great chance at winning and will pay you a more than fair salary (insert the Yanks, Sox, whoever in this spot)? C’mon dude.
It’s the agents that make the effort to be connected to the yankees and really every team in the first place.
Not EVERY team in first place, you won’t see agents trying to unload players on Tampa Bay (2010 AL East champion), or in San Diego (whom leaded the NL West for most of the year in 2009), because those teams don’t spend as much.
Yeah because the Lord knows the Yanks DON’T sign $100 mil players and why in the world would a free agent want the mighty Yanks rumored to be involved in a deal anyway right?
Please stop acting as if Cash gave him a contract and prayed someone outbid him. I would imagine that just about every GM will sit and have a meeting with one of the top free agents during the winter meetings except for 7 or 8 teams that no one would ever take serious. it’s called due diligence, kicking the tires…..or just having lunch with someone you may have a relationship with from prior experiences.
Theo met with Sabathia and no one seriously thought they were interested.
everyone does it, and it looks pretty damn smart now from the Yanks perspective
Crawford being the highest paid outfielder in history is an absolute joke.
His career numbers are garbage compared to that contract.
Crawford isn’t the highest paid outfielder in history.
By dollar amount, yes he is.
Not by AAV.
No, he’s not. Manny got $160 Mil: 160 > 142.
Let me check your math on that………..Yep that’s what I got.
Thanks for checking me on that, I was a little unsure of myself.
hahaha you guys are clowns
Na uh.
..
Ironically you were correct and wrong in the same post.
Crawford IS the highest paid OF in terms of average annual salary.
Crawford $142 /7 is slightly above the average $20 mil per earned by Manny.
The highest paid OF in history was an OF who played for the Red Sox before Carl Crawford. He didn’t do much, I can’t even remember his name.
By AAV, yes, Manny had a higher contract.
But $142 over 7 is the largest dollar amount given to an outfielder.
Thanks.
Ever heard of Vernon Wells?
Yep, and his was an EMBARRASSMENT at $126 over 7.
Carl’s is $142 over 7.
You’re wrong, but keep trying sweetheart.
Vernon makes $26,187,500 this year
8 years/$160MM vs. 7 years/$142MM Carl’s average being higher is nitpicking. That $2 million is the Sox doing their cheeky little numbers game like what they did with the Dice-K $51.111MM posting fee. In my mind Manny still got the largest contract ever for an OF if you take years into account. Also, for all his faults, Manny lived up to that deal about 90% of the time.
Of course he did, Manny was a masher over that contract.
I read on the espn ticker that he may come back next season, serve the suspension, and play out the rest of his career. That would be awesome!
Must have found some new PED’s that don’t show up on the tests.
Manny received $160M…Crawford, $142M. I don’t have a phD in math, but I believe 160 is greater than 142.
“By AAV, yes, Manny had a higher contract.”
160/8 = 20
142/7 = 20.3
Again, no math degree, but 20.3 > 20 I believe. Can someone with a degree in math please check my work?
Umm.. As Rodriquez 10/300m deal at age 31 was not a joke? jeter’s 3/50m extension was not a joke?
Shall i continue???
OH I GUESS YOU MISSED WHERE I SAID OUTFIELDER!
Nah, you said joke contracts also and are always starting this type of rubbish.
Stop trying to backtrack now that you have once again been called out for it.
A-Rod’s money was more based on him chasing the all time HR title. What record is Crawford chasing that will bring additional revenue to the Soxs?
A-Rod’s deal was still colossally dumb.
The respite that Cashman gets on that was that A-Rod’s deal had a lot to do with Yankees ownership.
Cool story bro!
That sneaky little devil!
What was the point of coming out and saying that? I don’t really understand it. Does anyone really care if they had serious interest in him or not?
Cashman’s been exhibiting a tendency to say more than he probably should of late. Between this, his public mention of his disagreement with signing Soriano and his comments about Jeter in the media last year, he’s been making some remarks that are just baffling.
Baffling?
Who are you? Casey Close?
On the other hand, I appreciate his honesty. My opinion of him has changed with each of these statements, usually for the better.
He certainly didn’t need to come clean on this one and probably shouldn’t have, but I don’t consider having done so to be a big deal either way.
he “came clean” on this one in december
I gotta say even though I agree with you, Cashman separating himself from the Soriano nonsense was a smart move. Lord knows, he already gets enough flack from lame moves by the Steinbrenners.
Not only that, but this is pretty much expected from the Yanks and Sox in any off season, regardless whether they have genuine interest in the player or not.
i think he just wanted a reason to say “brett gardner is better than carl crawford”. i don’t blame him, either. gardner is awesome
Exactly. Everyone knows if the Red Sox/Yankees are bidding on somebody the other side is just going to try to up the price. I figured it went without saying, but Cashman felt the need to say it.
I’m not seeing where this was even with him talking about. If everything we have heard about it to this point is correct it didn’t work; and really, who is surprised to hear this anyway?
Will this off season be the year these GM show some sanity in at least the number of years they gave a top free agent? I guess there is always hope. No wonder guys like Thome, Guerrero and Manny Ramirez want to play forever. Several million bucks a year to sit on the bench have a great view of the game. I hope Cashman has the guts to be tough in negotiating with CC. If he opts out tell him he will get the same amount as the contract he is leaving and if he gets more take it. Have you checked CC out the last month or so?
GM’s will probably never get to the point they don’t hand out these crazy contracts. The biggest thing is with how unstable the position is. Most times a GM hands out a 7 or 8 year deal they only have to worry about the first three or four years after that it’s somebody elses problem.
If CC opts out of his contract, i think he’ll ask for the same amount of money per year but for a few more years to ensure he stays longer in a winning team.
Maybe he thinks this will drive his new contract price up… hmmm so thats how its done.. thats the secret to being a GM, buy a steak dinner and the rival team will cut a 100 million dollar check.
Certainly worked on Theo.
It doesn’t work exactly like that, if you’ve ever negotiated something, you would know that one of the ways of increasing the amount of money you can get is to make sure there are at least two sides interested, if only one side has interested then you have to find a way to make it appear as if you have more than one suitor, which will make your only REAL suitor think and increase the offer (which most of the time will be a bit less than what he is ready to pay, but he’ll try to pay less).
In this regard, Cashman helped Crawford, he made it appear as if he had interested, even when they were interested, both sides said that it was only a dinner and nothing had been discused, but by then, the self proclaimed ‘nation’ of the redsox was boiling, and it seems it permeated all the way to their GM who held a closed door meeting to discuss the matter and came with a figure to offer Crawford, and since Carl Crawford already knew it was the only REAL suitor he had, and the amount was more than enough, he accepted it.
That was a case of a GM driving the price UP for a rival team, knowing that said team already had a trio of OF they had been calling ‘the best’ in Cameron and often injuried Ellsbury and JD Drew (both of whom are more than capable of putting up decent numbers when not injuried).
Another instance is when you know you have two real suitors, and you want to drive the price up, and that is easier because they won’t outbid themselves but will outbid a real offer, and that’s what happened with Lee and… go figure, the Yankees and Phillies. Though Lee price at the time seemed like it was going to soar, but Yankees finally said ‘take it or leave it’, and he left LOL.
You are 100% inaccurate. The Yankees offered more money than the Phillies. He chose Philly for reasons only known by him. He clearly left the best offer on the table. The Yanks certainly did not say “take it or leave it” and that is wholly inaccurate.
Nope, the Yankees offered more money in MORE years, the Phillies offered more money in less years (more money per year). And yes, it was widely known, even appearing here, when the Yankees said they were done with the offer, and Lee had to either accept their offer or decline it because they were done with their negotiations 😉
The Yankees offered more money over more years, but the Phillies offered more money per year.
I thought the Rangers had the best offer in terms of total amount? Or was it really close?
They did. If I recall correctly:
Yankees and Rangers each offered 6 years/$132 million. Yankees and Rangers were each willing to extend it to 7 years. Yankees a gauranteed 7th year for $148 million, and the Rangers for a 7th year (but I think that was only for incentives) and for $155 million
Lee gets 5 year $120 million guaranteed I think, correct?
I think it’s $125. I’m not sure it’s structured oddly with the first year.
Cot’s has Lee making 107.5 million through 2015, then there is a 27.5 million dollar club option with a 12.5 million dollar buyout, making the guarantee 120 million. But the club option becomes guaranteed if he pitches 200 innings in 2015, or 400 innings in 2014-2015, so he could make 135 million dollars over 6 years, which would actually bring the AAV down from 24 million per to 22.5 million per.
hes the only gm that won the al east though…noesi, nunez, a jones, chavez, colon, garcia, soriano, martin, nova…its all these low budget signings (except soriano of course) and using your minor leagues…noesi and nova have been huge!!!…that have lead to a nice season for a team that everyone said wouldn’t even challenge the red sox….wheres the experts now…shhhhh…i hear crickets…
Get over yourself, its not some unimaginable idea that the Yankees would succeed with their payroll.
Why don’t the Cubs, Mets, or Dodgers win? Or what makes the Rays so good?
Get over yourself about the Yankees payroll. I’m sure your favorite team takes the revenue sharing the Yankees pay and put it in their pockets
Well they all had terrible GMs that ran the team into the ground. (Hendry, Minaya and Coletti)
You’re pretty much conceding the point with that comment.
That’s the entire point. You need to have a good GM, solid scouting, player development, and just an overall intelligent front office to win. Having a high payroll helps but it’s not the reason those teams are successful and why other teams aren’t.
You can’t sit here an tell me a high payroll is going to magically make teams like the Mariners, Astros, Twins, etc better.
The backbone to a successful organization is scouting, player development, and smart decisions.
Mets and Dodgers dont win because their owners are broke. Cubs dont win because, come on, it’s the Cubs
The Mets and Dodgers not winning has nothing to do with their owners not having a good present-day financial situation. For the Mets, it’s paying Bay, Beltran, K-Rod, Santana, Ollie Perez and Castillo and then not having enough resources for the rest of the team. Also, they clearly don’t have the scouting as other teams. Where’s the Mets’ version of Bartolo Colon or Freddy Garcia?
The Dodgers have poor management. They let Martin go for nothing and are still feeling the effects of trading their prized chip for Casey Blake.
The Cubs don’t win because of the same reason the Mets and Dodgers don’t win…. their management is simply just not as good as others
“Where’s the Mets’ version of Bartolo Colon or Freddy Garcia?”
Isn’t his name R.A. Dickey?
Steve, I agree, just relating to what I heard during spring training, I think with their payroll you have to expect performance but 7 or 8 games in front?…I will work hard on the “getting over myself”…thing?…shhhh..crickets…lol
See… your point about the payroll drops dramatically when you fail to notice that Núñez and Peña filled the place of their best paid player, instead of a 31 million player they were fielding a player who made less than half a million, 30.5 millions LESS than what ARod is paid, add to that the time he had to take the place of Jeter, who is paid 15 millions, 14.5 less than Núñez… so there was a time when the NYY fielded a million in SS-3B instead of 45 millions.
And well… instead of overpaying for starters they sent Colón, García and Nova, with Nova pitching in 15 straight games where he has not lost, the Yankees have won 13 of those and Iván Nova won 12 of them, only Verlander had that kind of numbers (has won 12 straight games right now (a curiosity: in that stretch, both have won 8 times against losing teams). They basically acomplished what the Rays have been doing for a few years now, and what the Astros tried to do but failed miserably (same goes for the Mariners, Mets and Dodgers).
The Padres since a few years ago took the same route as the Yankees did this season, and had a good deal of success, until they decided to award Jed Hoyer’s ex-boss with Adrián, so they ended having their worst season in recent memory, as they finally got rid of the player that kept them from being one of the worst teams in the majors, now without González, they will be able to rack in better draft picks (one of the priorities of Jed Hoyer), and will begin to play minor leaguers with little talent to ensure more losing seasons a-la-Pirates.
Pirates… are another team who constantly fields a team of less than average players in the majority… but well, that’s part of the newest article i just about finished writing LOL.
In my opinion it is just sour grapes to get mad at the experts’ predictions. Yeah most thought Boston would be far and a way the AL East champ, but thats why they play a 162 game schedule. No expert can predict injuries, performances, or any other part of the game. Nobody thought that Garcia and Colon would put up the numbers they have this year, but again its why they play the games and not let the numbers on paper decide everything.
I’m not mad about it…and also the Red Sox could still end up American League Champs…could still happen…but Yanks have the best record by 6 games in the whole American League…just goes to show, as far as any team, Yanks or Red Sox, etc…if your pitching stinks, its hard to get 10 runs every night…and yes injuries have a lot to do with it and who you have behind those injured players is a bigger factor than most consider….in that regard the Yankees had real nice back-up players and pitchers they were able to plug in..
Pretty sure that it was the Angels, not the Yankees, that drove up Crawford’s asking price. And even then, the Red Sox overpaid (based off the offers) by around $20m.
Not by all indications from Crawford’s agent. The story going around indicates that he told the Angels and Sox he’d sign for 7 years and $142 million and the Sox agreed first with the Angels allegedly willing as well, but a bit late on the trigger.
This is the fact of the negotiations.
Nice to see some truth hit this topic, rather than wild rubbish flying about having -0- to do with much of anything from the same trolls.
On another thought and response to another post further above.. Good question as to why Cashman is all of a sudden talking more via the media, where he was fairly tight lipped before. could it be his way of putting Hank and Hal on the spot over his upcoming contract negotiations and wanting them out? What I meant, was showing them that HE knows better who to sign and under what terms, rather than they do, which in most cases his deals have been pretty decent at the very least and the Steinbrenner pushed ones have been horrific at the least.
If he does leave, there will be no gene “Stick” Michael to take over this time for sure, so hpfully the duo will think long and hard before making a power grab decision that will be bad for the club’s long term plans that Cashman had finally gotten put into place that seem to be working, such as actually building a viable farm system that works.
Hope you enjoyed flexing your nuts Cashman, you dummy.
Are you mad?
Clearly he didn’t try all that hard. All reports seem to indicate that Crawford’s agent went in, gave a set figure he was expecting and went with the first team to offer it. I’d say Werth did a lot more driving up the price on Crawford than Cashman did.
Do you remember that after details of the dinner emerged, the Sox went all in on Crawford? even Theo acknowledged it, saying they held a private meeting in a hotel room once they knew that Crawford was dining with Cashman. The result of Theo’s meeting was the current Carl Crawford contract. Though i wouldn’t call it THE worst contract ever, the season is not over and he could very well put up monstrous numbers in the playoffs… yeah i think they will make the playoffs and win the world series rather easily.
Theo never said that, even if it were the truth he never would have admitted it. Anyway, they were told that it would take 7/142 to get the deal done and that it was between them and the Angels and Theo (and the owners) beat the Angels to the punch; Cashman had nothing to do with it.
Nah Cashman, the Nationals drove up the price for Crawford…. not you.
Jayson Werth was signed before Carl Crawford. Therefore, that’s false lol.
Edited: Now I know what you mean, mistake on me!
And here I was thinking that it was a baseball team that was competing and not the payroll.
payrolls are part of baseball teams. This isn’t a pick up softball game. Get real.
If it wasnt for the steroids(do you hear that Cashman?) your team would be in shambles. Your team cheated in 2009 and won the WS and is still cheating again to get this far. You know it and we know it. You didnt even offered contract to the MVP of your team. Why? Because you knew you dont need him. As long as steroids exist you dont need to spend a lot of money on free agents. I hope one day somebody discovers something and your world comes crashing down. You clown!
It would be interesting to see where the proof is that shows they were cheating in 2009 (and are still currently doing it). They’ve been doing testing for 8 years now, and have suspended people that have tested positive (or have taken drugs that can be used to cover up positives in Manny’s case). I’m sure we’d know if someone on the Yankees, especially their most recent championship team was using
“If it wasnt for the steroids(do you hear that Cashman?)”
Yes he did. He comes to MLBTR, everyday, reads the comments and today, cried because you know his secret.
“your team would
be in shambles.”
Of course. I mean, It’s not like they got contribution from other people on the team, right?
“Your team cheated in 2009 and won the WS and is still
cheating again to get this far. You know it and we know it.”
He shed another tear. He’s weeping.
“You didnt
even offered contract to the MVP of your team.”
I don’t know what this means, but I file this under “lrn2grammar”.
“Why?”
Please tell us why!
“Because you knew you
dont need him.”
Cashman is in awe and can’t believe you know that secret too!
“As long as steroids exist you dont need to spend a lot
of money on free agents.”
How about you and I go up to Selig and tell him to ban performance enhancing drugs and for every player to get tested every now and then. It’ll be BRILLIANT! *cue gif of dude with mustache*
“I hope one day somebody discovers something”
I hope somebody discovers something too someday. Doubt it’ll happen though.
“and
your world comes crashing down.”
Oh no! Piles and piles of cash will come crashing down on him! Watch out for the paper cuts, Cashman!
“You clown!”
Another tear is shed. You’re so mean.
Awesome
hater alert
Steroids also worked out for those Oakland teams in the early part of the decade (Giambi, Tejada, etc).
I’m disgusted with every player who ever took steroids but that doesn’t diminish the success of the Yankees, Red Sox or anybody who won during that time period quite frankly.
Except those red sox championship teams were the epitome of PED’s so yes it does diminish their success.
I was just saying that they did a nice job with low budget signings…listened to Tony Pena about Colon, etc and promoted some minor leaguers…Yankees did a nice job in putting together a mixture of high priced players and rookies and recycled veterans and got the job done…but you still have to play the games..I just didn’t think they would be 7 to 8 games better than the red sox and/or Rays
Nick….don’t hold back and sugar coat it…lol
Just wait until someone drives Sabathia’s price up.
Last time he was a FA, sabathia stated he preferred a west coast team, but if one takes a quick gander at those teams now and ya gotta’ have bad thoughts that any of them have the slightest chance of offering much for his services.
Moreno in CA just signed his Ace Weaver to an extension (I think?) and Moreno likes quick negotiations anyway, the LAD couldn’t afford to sign an Indy leaguer at this point as a FA. SFG? They don’t need any starters and they were maybe the other WC team Sabathia may have thought about (chance of competing) signing with.
My favorite part is him saying he has Gardner for 100 m less. Trying to brag about saving money? The Yankees payroll is a joke, and is the reason no one but Yankees fans can take them seriously no matter what they do right.
Are they any different than what Philly or Boston has done the last few years??
Sort of irrelevant don’t you think?
Not irrelevant at all when you consider their payrolls…. are they not taken seriously??
truth hurts?
Bragging doesn’t make it false.
“Bragging doesn’t make it false.”
No, but the fact that Crawford hits for more power and a higher average, while taking far fewer walks, and the fact that Gardner relies on defense for value even more than Crawford, does kinda make it false.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Gardner is a better player, but for the price, he’s just way more valuable. I think that’s the story – that we get a similar, albeit not as good player, for a lot lot lot less money. Plus 2 years younger, under control, and all that jazz.
Oh I get that, I just don’t buy the whole “Gardner is essentially the same player as Crawford for 100Mil less” thing; and honestly it doesn’t come from Cashman as much as it does certain fans (not you). Gardner is an awesome player and when you take into account their cost he is an infinitely better value than Crawford (that’s just what happens when one player was signed as a FA and the other is pre-arb/arb), but despite very similar skill-sets they play a different style of baseball.
Talking solely who’s the better player, I think Crawford will likely be better for the next couple years, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if over the last few years of Crawford’s contract Gardner is the better player (the difference in cost will be less by then, but that’s not really relevant).
Exactly. Same is true from all cost controlled players (less than 6 years service time) however.
NYY have an awesome player on their hands, but they will have a choice to make before long also with regards to him.
the other thing regarding Gardner is exactly how much (if any) will he ever get better. Right now he is a speedster with little else, other than defense as pluses and the NYY front office will probably take that into consideration before ever offering him any kind of extension before he gets his 6 years in. These types of players in many cases do not age well and am NOT trying to dice on the guy here at all.
2011 kind of shows why depending on walks is preferable to depending on average. crawford has a higher ceiling than gardner, but gardner is straightforwardly awesome
Definitely, assuming a similar OBP I’d much rather have the player who got there with walks. I wasn’t trying to assert that Crawford’s offensive style was better than Gardner’s (although when you add in his additional power it is better, if only slightly) just that they weren’t the same as people have tried implying on here, not just today but every time this subject comes up.
…sigh…
I take them seriously and I hate every New York team with a passion.
The Phillies and Red Sox payrolls are so much lower right???
Read Pinstipe Defection, and you will see for yourself how corrupt the Yankees are.
Read “Baseball for Dummies”, and it might serve a purpose in your development of baseball conversations. Whoever keeps hindering the yankees why don’t you grow the hell up.
Hindering the Yankees? What?
I’m guessing you don’t know what Hindering means. Well when you hinder someone or thing you basically interrupt them from their main goal(s). So I said stop hindering the Yankees because some envious fans cannot just accept the real world in which we’re living in.
No, I know exactly what hindering means. When fans complain, or when people write things about the Yankees it does absolutely nothing to “hinder” them. It’s weird that you (since you actually know what hindering means) would say that “some envious fans” are hindering the Yankees. It’s like you actually think that the Yankees could be kept from doing something by a few boisterous fans.
i think we’ve got ourselves a deal, robinson. let me just check with the internet real quick and then we can get something down on paper
I’m going to start posting every day about how the Yankees shouldn’t re-sign CC when he opts out.
your screen name will give it away. change your name to maineJETERBESTEVERGOYANKS27WOOO
I like it!
Have somebody read the book to you and you will see what I am referring to. Under oath Yankee employees admitted to going to Mexico to recruit players. ( A violation of MLB rules). Then they admitted to contacting Cuban Nationals, a
violation of U.S. law. All to steal a player. Also giving someone your passport to get him to another country to hide him from other ML Clubs, trafficking
in human beings. Nobody called you a dummy, but hide behind that keyboard and wipe the snot off of your face.
So you are telling me that the yankees are the only team that have done this. If you are a 100% they are the only team then you have proven me wrong. According to you, the Yankees are the only team to admit of doing this, Do you really think they are the only team to have corruption instilled in their system?
All I said is read the book and you will see how corrupt they are. So you now agree they are corrupt as well as other teams. I don’t know if other teams are corrupt, but I do know Yankee Employees testified, under oath that they had violated MLB Rules and U.S. Laws.
I just can’t believe people just handpick the yankees to blame for all the apparent troubles in the world. Name one team that has not attempted to cheat in this sport or any sport. If you came up with any please tell me who.
So much haterade in this topic. I love it!
Yea and I guess another GM did that to him with the AJ Burnett contract. This is one of the stupidest things I’ve read in a long time.
Cashman is going to feel the heat when Colon and Garcia get bombed in the playoffs.
The only purpose of Bart and Freddy, was to add depth and help them reach the playoffs. Whatever happens from now on does not matter, they’ve done their part. Huge pickups for Cash.
i don’t think even one person in the yankees front office (or on the active roster, for that matter) would agree that what happens in playoffs does not matter. if anything, the yankees traditionally say that what happens until then does not matter
I was referring to Bart and Freddy’s production. Obviously they want to do well in the playoffs and help the team, however, they have definitely done more than they were expected to. Remember that these two guys were expected to be nothing but stopgaps and they turned out to be mainstays.
you just said the only purpose of those two was to get them to the playoffs. but that’s definitely not the only purpose. at least one of them is going to have to contribute in the postseason. if they collapse because of a lack of starting pitching, you can bet it will matter bigtime – just like it does in boston
Cash has been, in my opinion, has been one of the top GM’s since joining the ranks. The NY Yankees would be dumb in not Resigning him at the conclusion of the World Series.
What is it with all these haters today? I read comment after comment and everyone’s criticizing Cashman. You know what, when any of your powerful teams get to twenty damn titles you come and talk to me. Stop making excuses and start winning some baseball games.
you are surprised that people are hating on the yankees? in the thread of a post like this one, no less?
is this your first day
Here, let me help: “You know what, when any of your powerful teams get to twenty damn titles you come and talk to me.”
It probably comes from attitudes like yours. “I grew up rooting for a team that wins, that makes me superior! Shut up until your team is better!”
Yeah, sorry, no. Most of the Yankee hating is silly, but some of the complaints are perfectly legitimate. As for hating Yankee FANS, well, I try not to paint everybody with the same brush — but when people like you poke their heads out it’s awful hard not to. I’ll just close my eyes and remind myself that not all Yankees fans on MLBTR are like you and hope it works out.