Longtime GM Theo Epstein is gone and recently-appointed replacement Ben Cherington will try leading the Red Sox to their first playoff appearance since 2009 by improving the pitching staff and tinkering with the offense.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Adrian Gonzalez, 1B: $148MM through 2018
- Carl Crawford, OF: $122MM through 2017
- Josh Beckett, SP: $51MM through 2014
- John Lackey, SP: $47.85MM through 2014
- Dustin Pedroia, 2B: $29.25MM through 2014
- Jon Lester, SP: $19.5MM through 2013
- Kevin Youkilis, 3B: $13.25MM through 2012
- Daisuke Matsuzaka, SP: $10.33MM through 2012
- Bobby Jenks, SP: $6MM through 2012
- Jose Iglesias, SS: $4.12MM through 2013
Arbitration Eligible Players (estimated salaries)
- Jacoby Ellsbury, OF: $7.9MM
- Alfredo Aceves, RP: $1.7MM
- Daniel Bard, RP: $1.6MM
- Andrew Miller, SP: $1.6MM (non-tender candidate)
- Jarrod Saltalamacchia, C: $1.6MM
- Mike Aviles, UT IF: $1.5MM (non-tender candidate)
- Matt Albers, RP: $1.3MM (non-tender candidate)
- Jed Lowrie, UT IF: $1.2MM
- Franklin Morales, RP: $1.0MM
- Rich Hill, RP: $700K (non-tender candidate)
Contract Options
- Dan Wheeler, RP: $3MM club option with no buyout (Type B)
- Marco Scutaro, SS: $6MM club option/$3MM player option with a $1.5MM buyout (Type B)
Free Agents
- Jason Varitek (Type B C), David Ortiz (Type A DH), J.D. Drew (unranked OF), Conor Jackson (unranked OF), Erik Bedard (unranked SP), Tim Wakefield (unranked SP), Jonathan Papelbon (Type A RP)
To fully understand the challenges the Red Sox face this offseason, we must review the events of the past two months. Red Sox fans already know the unpleasant details, so I'll be brief: since the beginning of September, the Red Sox — a franchise no longer accustomed to losing — lost 20 games and their seemingly unshakable grip on a postseason berth. Days after the collapse, they lost their manager and within weeks their longtime general manager left, too. Now, they're about to see their designated hitter and closer hit free agency along with franchise icons Tim Wakefield and Jason Varitek.
No, Cherington's first offseason in the GM's office won't be an easy one. But unlike his predecessor, Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein, Cherington doesn't face anything resembling a rebuilding process. Despite the chaos of the past eight weeks, Boston is well-positioned for success in 2012 and beyond.
It starts with the search for a new manager: someone who can restore order in a clubhouse that apparently featured more than its share of beer and fried chicken in 2011. Boston's search is in its early stages, with the team set to conduct first-round interviews soon.
The September version of the Red Sox played roughly at the level of the 1962 Mets or 2003 Tigers. A whole lot went wrong down the stretch, so it would be unfair to put all the blame on Boston's starting rotation. But make no mistake — Cherington must obtain starting pitching this winter. Pencil Jon Lester, Josh Beckett and Clay Buchholz in and you have three above-average starters leading the rotation, as long as Buchholz recovers from the lower back stress fracture that sidelined him at the end of 2011. John Lackey and Daisuke Matsuzaka will be recovering from Tommy John surgery, which leaves two openings in Boston's rotation.
Reinforcements could come internally, where the Red Sox have Andrew Miller, Kyle Weiland and Felix Doubront. They could re-sign Wakefield, since the knuckleballer contributes every season and was his usual self in 2011, even as a 45-year-old. Cherington will be looking for more.
At his introductory press conference, the new GM suggested he'll search for buy-low starters. Perhaps this means the Red Sox will offer veteran starters one-year deals and hope for better results than John Smoltz and Brad Penny provided in 2009. Roy Oswalt could be an option, if the Red Sox believe his back is healthy.
As usual, the Red Sox and Yankees engaged in a bit of gamesmanship at the other's expense last offseason. Boston expressed interest in Mariano Rivera and New York drove up the price for Carl Crawford. Boston should inquire on C.C. Sabathia if he hits the open market this offseason. Sabathia could help the Red Sox and interest from Boston would at least drive the price up for the Yankees, if they successfully re-sign him. While the Steinbrenners spend more than any owners in the game, there's no harm in making the Yankees pay more than they'd like to.
Cherington hasn't publicly ruled out the pursuit of other top free agent starters and until he does, the Red Sox will be linked to the likes of Yu Darvish, C.J. Wilson and Edwin Jackson. The team could also try luring Hiroki Kuroda to Boston, though he appears to favor Los Angeles.
The Red Sox could inquire on any number of trade candidates, including Fausto Carmona, Jonathan Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco and White Sox starters Gavin Floyd and John Danks. Though Orioles right-hander Jeremy Guthrie and all the Rays' starters are likely off-limits, the Red Sox should check in on the best arms available on the trade market. Unfortunately for them, the Yankees will be doing exactly the same thing. Depending on how the Red Sox approach their offseason, Jed Lowrie, Ryan Lavarnway, Ryan Kalish and Josh Reddick could all be viewed as expendable in trade talks.
Jonathan Papelbon has anchored Boston's bullpen since 2006 and he recorded the final out of Boston's 2007 World Series championship. However, it's no secret he wants to follow the money and the Red Sox have a ready-made replacement in Daniel Bard, who should be fine in 2012, despite his awful September. Boston will surely offer Papelbon arbitration, as he's a Type A free agent, but I'll be surprised if he reports to Fort Myers with the Red Sox next Spring Training.
Like the rotation, the bullpen requires some offseason work. Bard, Alfredo Aceves and Franklin Morales will return and the Red Sox can hope for more from Bobby Jenks in 2012. Dan Wheeler, a valuable yet replaceable reliever, projects as a Type B free agent, so the Red Sox could decline his option and offer arbitration. This would assure them of one of two acceptable results: a draft pick or one more year of Wheeler at an affordable rate. Cherington will likely pursue relief pitching even if Wheeler and non-tender candidates Miller and Matt Albers return.
Lost in the drama of the past two months has been Boston's impressive offensive output. The Red Sox scored more runs than any team in baseball in 2011 and with most of their core players returning, there's no reason to believe they won't have one of the league's best offenses again. The Red Sox are likely to exercise Marco Scutaro's option for $6MM. This would give Jose Iglesias more time to develop and relegate Lowrie to the bench. The rest of Boston's infield is set, with Adrian Gonzalez at first, Dustin Pedroia at second and Kevin Youkilis at third.
The outfield features the American League's most surprising player this side of Mike Napoli and its most disappointing player this side of Adam Dunn, in Jacoby Ellsbury and Carl Crawford, respectively. Likely joining the two as starters is Reddick, who hit .280/.327/.457 in roughly half a season of playing time. The Red Sox may explore an extension for Ellsbury, not that negotiating with a Scott Boras client coming off of an MVP-caliber season would be easy.
After yet another productive season, David Ortiz is the top designated hitter available on the free agent market. He posted a .309/.398/.554 line, and even though he turns 36 this November, he seems well-positioned for a generous contract. Will the Red Sox finally provide him with the long-term deal he's been seeking for years? Maybe. They'll probably start by offering arbitration, an advisable move given Ortiz's power. But there's no sense in overcommitting to a positionless player who may be approaching his decline phase, so expect the Red Sox to be prepared to walk away. Other free agent DHs are available and Lavarnway is an internal candidate for the job, so Boston isn't bound to Ortiz.
When he introduced Boston's new general manager, Red Sox president and CEO Larry Lucchino pointed out that Cherington will not have the luxury of a peaceful start. “He will hit the ground running, in full stride, and no one will outwork him,” Lucchino said. The way the 2011 season ended, there's no other choice.
reigning offseason champs look to repeat! (this thread is gonna suck)
this site reported Scott Atchison is a super-two
LOL at multiple guaranteed contracts
LOL at Bobby Jenks starting
I guess I’m missing something, don’t most teams have multiple guaranteed contracts? And isn’t it a good thing to have stability like that, especially when they are mostly quality players?
After the greatest collapse of all time, their is only one way to go and that is up. Finding two good starters could be a challenge in this market. If Papelbon goes to the Phils and Ortiz leaves the Sox will have to make two more good decisions. The bad news is the Yanks and Rays don’t look like they’re going anywhere!
“Finding two good starters could be a challenge in this market.” It could be pretty easy too, all it would take is money. I expect (and hope) that the Sox will get more creative in finding starting pitchers, but really all they would have to do is throw money at two of Darvish/Wilson/Buehrle/Jackson.
As far as Papelbon and Ortiz go, I don’t think it will be a big deal if either of them leave. As noted, there is a more than capable replacement for Papelbon already on the team in Bard (as well as quality free agents, who would be cheaper than Pap), and I’m not convinced that Ortiz leaving wouldn’t be preferable anyway. If Ortiz left they could save a good deal of money while also using the DH spot to keep their fielders fresh without losing their bats (particularly Youkilis), and it would give them a way to keep Lavarnway in the lineup until they decide if he can take over at catcher or not.
Bard was not too good at the end of the year this year. If he pitches like that as a closer he will be a failure.
Well, that’s pretty shortsighted. If Mariano Rivera always pitched like that one night he blew the save, well darn he’d be pretty bad too. Bard had one bad month after being heavily worked the whole year, only to see his use go up near the end because of all the failure in the starting rotation. His stuff was always electric, he just lost some control right near the end and had a few bad days.
Your first mistake is to compare Bard to Rivera.
So we should ignore what he did for the first 5 months of the season (and previous years) and focus completely on one month?
We can name the many reasons the Sox missed the playoffs, but if you want my honest opinion, I think he was the main reason the Sox missed the playoffs. He had 9 losses, that lead all relief pitchers in baseball. 7 of those 9 losses came in April and September, Boston’s 2 worse months of the season.
It’s foolish to put it on one player; if the starters hadn’t sucked in September he wouldn’t have been overused and likely would have been a lot more effective (and not needed as much even if he did still suck), likewise if other relievers had been more effective in September they wouldn’t have always had to go to him and again he wouldn’t have been overused (and again not needed as much even if he did still suck).
As I said, we can name many reasons. I don’t put full blame on Bard, I said I think he was the main reason. For the September collapse it was definitely the starters at fault, but 4 losses in a month by a relief pitcher is a lot.
Going by pitcher wins and losses is always silly. Bard is in a unique position in Boston’s bullpen to receive a loss. He pitches more high-leverage innings than anyone, including Papelbon. He’s the guy who they’ll put into a tie game with runners in scoring position and one out. A small mistake by him leads to disaster more often than a small mistake by any other player. As a result, he racks up losses.
I am not anti-Papelbon by any means, but he has a much easier time of it. He typically pitches with a lead, often with a 2- or 3-run lead. He’s usually not on the hook for a loss until he allows 2 or 3 runs. Other relievers often pitch in lower-leverage situations where we are already winning or losing.
Certainly, Bard had a bad month. Unfortunately, that was more a symptom than a cause of the collapse. Bard failed in the end essentially because everyone else did, and he can’t hold the whole bullpen/team on his shoulders the entire season. He became overworked because we had too many bad 5-inning starts and the other bullpen arms, outside of Papelbon and Aceves, were not to be counted on. It’s unfortunate that Bard crumbled as such, and it’s irritating to think about, since one or two more wins at any point would have had us in the postseason, but you really have to take everything into account when claiming someone was “the main reason”.
“Going by pitcher wins and losses is always silly.”
Not Losses for a relief pitcher. Set-up men like Bard have 1 job, to hold the lead or keep the game tied if it’s tied. Bard obviouly did not do that at least 9 games this year in 70 appearances. Losses for a relief pitcher is an underrated stat. Wins I do not use for them though.
“He’s the guy who they’ll put into a tie game with runners in scoring position and one out. A small mistake by him leads to disaster more often than a small mistake by any other player. As a result, he racks up losses.”
A loss in that case would go to the pitcher who is responsible for the runners on base, not Bard.
Right. Starters aren’t supposed to allow runs either. In fact, all pitchers have one job: don’t allow runs. Unfortunately, they do, and most allow many more than Bard. As I said earlier, it’s hard to ignore his overuse, and his overuse was mostly due to failure on the part of the starting rotation and other relievers.
I’m aware of the rules regarding loss assignments; the point I was making is that he is more often than not put in a very difficult position in which he could easily fail. He’s the one who gets thrown into the fray, and he typically performs admirably. The reasons for his high loss count are twofold: 1) large sample size, that is to say, most no-win, no-save high leverage situations; and 2) overuse. Certainly, there’s also the fact that he screwed up sometimes, but on the whole, he screwed up a lot less than the vast majority of the pitching staff, which taken as a whole is the “main reason” we collapsed.
If Bard had pitched better in September, we’d be in the playoffs. That is also true of Lackey, Lester, Beckett, and most of the bullpen. If Wakefield had not lost so many times en route to 200 wins, we would have been in the playoffs. It seems to me that Bard has a much better excuse for his poor performance than most of the pitching staff.
Starters are obviously going to allow more runs than relievers though. I wouldn’t think a starting pitchers number one goal is to allow 0 runs. I wouldn’t call 70 games pitched overused considering David Robertson also pitched exactly in 70 games too (but threw 6 less innings) and he had 0 losses.
You do have to blame the team and mostly the entire pitching in September. I never sad Bard is the full to blame, don’t get me wrong.
I think there are other ways to evaluate a relief pitcher. Like it or not, he knows what his job is. It’s to hold a lead and keep inherited runners from scoring. That’s the job description.
In 2011…
Bard had the 5th worst LOB% of ANY relief pitcher with at least 50 IP in the majors at 66%. That’s easily the worst % of his young 3 year career.
The odd thing is that there isn’t a noticeable difference between OPS w/o RISP or w/ RISP.
He definetly seems to create his own problems though when he starts off the inning as well as he has oppenents have a .857 OPS when he starts the inning off.
That’s not to say he’s a problem going fwd and it sure is a one season sample size but he simply didn’t do what he’s suppose to.
Right and I’m disagreeing that he is even the main reason. The starting pitching falling apart caused his problems, and even if he still would have stunk it wouldn’t have mattered if the starters hadn’t fallen apart.
Exactly.
the problem w/ that theory is a relief pitcher can come into a 6-5 game w/ the tying run on and if he gives up 1 hit (hr) then the loss is his…what about the rest of the runs that were given up by the starter?
Blame should be laid on the team not a player…team game…team win…team loss
Well if the score was 6-5 that means obviously both teams gave up a handful of runs and in games like those usually comes down to the bullpen. If that was the case, yes that relief pitcher should get a loss. I do think W-L can be adjusted however, such as making a pitcher who gave up the deciding run take the L. Like if a starting pitcher gave up 1 run in 8 innings trailing 1-0, the bullpen allowed 5 runs in the 9th to make it 6-0, then his team scores 5 runs in the bottom of the 9th and loses a heartbreaker 6-5, the starter unfortunately gets the loss.
Bard is a good pitcher, but all I’m saying is there is a big difference between the 8th and the 9th inning. There is a long list of relievers that have had bad years after just having one good one. Soriano, Wheeler, Jenks to name a few. All had better track records than Bard coming into this year. It’s a crap shoot for the most part with relievers. The Sox would be better off with Bell or Madson.
There really isn’t a big difference between the 8th and 9th innings believe it or not, you have to get three outs in both of them. And I agree that relievers are a crap shoot, but why would it be any less of a crap shoot with Bell or Madson? It would just be a more expensive crap shoot.
– goodbye to wakefield, varitek, and drew, and jackson
– arb & conservative contract offers to papelbon and ortiz. 4 draft picks would be an acceptable outcome
– somehow i don’t think erik bedard is going to be interested in returning to the circus, but make him a strong offer anyway
– exercise scutaro’s option; decline wheeler’s & offer him arb
– no big splash signings pls. aggressive short-term offers to guys like oswalt are ok, but otherwise just look for a quality non-star starter through trade
You might want to be careful going to arbitration with both Pap and Ortiz. The market this offseason is pretty heavy with players of similar caliber and both may be aware of that and both may accept in arb and look for better contracts in the 2012 offseason. Likely, no, but I do think Pap would at least consider taking it for a year.
i’d be very happy if papelbon came back on a one year deal
Same with Papi..
oi vey..
You guys do realize there is a business to this and money needs to be allocated a little better going forward. Papi and Pap for one year at what likely will be around $30mm-$32mm combined isn’t exactly thrifty and doesn’t really build much towards the future, but hey, what do I know.
Clearly not much. The 30-32mm figure isn’t accurate. Also, the concept of one year deals isn’t for “building towards the future”. Papelbon has no shot at accepting arb either. Strawman arguments FTW.
Are you just trolling, or do you really believe what you write? Dead serious here.
What do you expect Pap and Ortiz to be awarded in arbitration? Serious question.
Ortiz would be awarded close to his 12.5m current salary. Papelbon won’t accept…it’s a near mortal lock. This is like asking what if CC Sabathia doesn’t opt out, it’s pointless.
To be entirely fair, he did get all whiny about people constantly assuming Sabathia would opt out just a week or two ago.
Even if they were to both accept and both get slight raises it’s not like it would be 30mil more, it would be the same as this year + a couple mil. Not that big of a deal, especially with a few guys’ salaries coming off the books.
True, it would be the same as this year, maybe with a slight increase to Papi. Papelbon will probably fetch $15mm even. Papi, maybe up to $13.5mm. I just feel they can spend that a little better to augment other areas of the roster.
They might be able to spend it a little better, but they are going to have a little money to play with (even if those two accept arb) and I think the chance of getting four draft picks is well worth the chance of them accepting arb.
They will also both likely be productive players next year, so it’s not like it would hurt the team to have them on it.
They have two guys to compete for right field next year adequately, Drew’s $14 million is off the books, Lackey’s AAV just dropped and $4 million for Varitek and Wakefield is coming off the books.
The competitive balance tax was at $178 million last year and has gone up roughly $7-8 million every season (Based on the last two increases, we can assume $8 million). Meaning that the CBT will in all likelihood be $186MM next season. The Sox have $127 million in obligations to 2012. Adding back in Papelbon and Ortiz at estimated arbitration awards of up to $30 million (Which is about the drastic max they’ll get, I’d estimate $28MM) puts them at $157MM leaving them $29 million to play with before hitting the luxury tax. The Rays went into 2011 with a $42MM payroll, I think we can plug our holes with that much cash.
Agree with everything you said, $30M may be a bit high, but it wouldn’t be less than $27-$28M between Paps and Papi on their arb offers working from salaries of $12M and $12.5M respectively. I don’t think that $2M-$3M is enough of a reason to call someone out like that.
No, you are correct, its not enough of a reason to call someone out on that. I called him out for saying it’s remotely possible that Papelbon would accept, along with all the other stuff he’s said in this thread…like everyone else has done. The payroll increase of them accepting arbitration would be so minor on a team like the Red Sox, yet he’s talking about building for the future and questioning whether those guys should get arb offers…which is insane.
Yeaaaah, 30-32mm is insane for two players for one year. It’s not like the Yanks have got an aging 3B getting paid……..oh hey, look at that. 32m. Interesting.
You sure you want to argue the “thrift” point?
As long as it’s 1 year deals it’s not going to prevent them from having flexibility beyond 2012. Whoever, replaces them, most likely not rookies, are going to cost more money and years anyway. I don’t think the bullpen is strong enough to hand over closer duties to Bard right now and Lavarnway probably needs a year @ AAA for them to move Youks to DH as he is the more logical one to replace Ortiz as an in-house option.
there is no-way Papelbon inks a one year deal with Boston with teams out there that will offer him multi year deals. It will take 3 years minimun to secure his services. I want him back but i understand it is big biz and big bucs.
Be careful??? That would be ideal…
The top priority should be the bullpen. I still don’t know how Theo thought the likes of Albers, Wheeler, and Jenks would cut it.
they literally have three starting pitchers on the roster, and the bullpen is the top priority?
Probably because Albers had done it in the AL East (not particularly well, but I don’t think they were counting on anything more than middle relief from him), Wheeler had done it in the AL East (and pretty well I might add), and Jenks had pitched really well (despite his ERA) in Chicago.
albers was looking like a great acquisition before the all star break, he quickly went downhill as the season progressed. id like the bullpen to be built with longshot, low salary guys rather than the likes of jenks and other veteran mediocre RP. grab a bunch of 1-1.5MM relievers and see what shakes out.
Yep, relievers are super volatile, so there’s really no reason to spend big money on any of them (aside from possibly closers assuming your idea of “big money” isn’t really all that big).
its a total crapshoot. because a reliever has an amazing 2011 doesnt mean he wont be dfa’d by mid season 2012. happens too often, money is wasted on relievers, aside from closers, way too frequently.
It’s going to be a tough offseason for this crew. They are way too top heavy in some areas and way too thin in others, including not having a lot of quality depth in the minors at the moment. This team is heavily in transition and I think more than people really want to believe. They’ll be competitive to an extent next season, but I think they need this offseason, the trade deadline summer 2012 and then offseason 2012 to move around quite a few pieces and wait for some of the quality prospects to get another full season in the minors under their belt. Obviously St. Louis just proved you should never count a team out and many people felt once Wainwright went down, they had no chance this season. So the same wisdom applies, but my gut feeling is that the Sox don’t have a great season next year. The team lacks cohesiveness. As it currently stands, at a minimum, they need to sign a SS, a veteran catcher, 2 starting pitchers, RF, maybe 3rd (pending Youks progress as he might have to DH for a while), if not , then a DH, and a lot of bullpen personal including technically finding a closer or re-signing their own. That’s a lot of moves and it doesn’t solve the problem with LF and having a player who’s skill set doesn’t apply and maybe one more year from an all star center fielder who will be seeking a big payday.
lol
You know some of the points I made are correct and don’t say lol again. It’s not funny.
Oh what’s that? Century, the biased Yankee fan who constantly writes absurd comments about the Red Sox thinks they are in trouble? *GASP*
The last 30 days must be a figment of my imagination then. They sure do look like a team that’s currently having a little trouble. Pretty interesting that I called some of the same things last offseason. This team doesn’t even have a manager at the moment. It’s not being bias or as people say “hating”. Whatever I guess..
“This team doesn’t even have a manager at the moment”
OH NO! How will they ever win the game tomorrow? Oh wait..
As for the last 30 days, the team scored the 3rd most runs in baseball. They had a ton of injuries on the staff, and it was their fault they didn’t have adequate depth. However, guys like Bard, Papelbon, Beckett, and Lester were flat out terrible, and that has nothing to do with 2012. In fact, the Red Sox still could have made the playoffs if it wasn’t for the most absurd final day in the history of baseball…they didn’t deserve to make it, but you are fixating on a month of baseball from a team that will be very different, and ignoring the fact that over 130 games from April-August it was the best team in baseball. Stuff happens, the Cardinals just won the WS. You ARE delusional.
I was more so implying the circus in the 30 days after the season was over. And I don’t think blaming it on injuries or the baseball schedule really proves a point. Whatever. I am not hating on the Sox, I am being sincere actually and just feel this team needs to make a lot of moves.
They were the best team in the league all summer. I think people forget that, just like we in Philadelphia forget that we had the best team for 162 games. This is a World Series contending type of line up and team.
They don’t need to fix a whole lot. Get a good starting pitcher, whether it’s a trade or free agent. They need a closer if they don’t think Bard’s ready (Madson or Papelbon). They need a set up man IF Bard is ready.
What Boston needs is for the players they already have under contract to perform at the levels they are capable of.
This isn’t the Houston Astros. The Red Sox have a great team, it’s a matter of finding the right complementary pieces to make them successful.
Preach it!
can’t sell papers with “they’re gonna be fine”, but it’s true
just like you couldn’t sell papers with “they have a pretty good shot” instead of “BEST TEAM EVAR”
They lacked cohesiveness so badly that they were drinking beers together during the game right?
I think the lack of cohesiveness is greatly exaggerated, and whether you agree or not, this is still a team that won 89 and 90 games the last two years and both times it was considered underachieving based on their actual talent (and both years dealt with injuries to key players).
There is almost no chance they get as little production out of LF next year as they did this year, Gonzalez’s power will have fully returned (power is generally the last thing to return after a shoulder surgery), and they will presumably get more production out of RF next year.
They don’t need to sign a SS – they have Scutaro; they don’t need to sign a veteran catcher – Saltalamacchia proved himself more than capable to cover the position last year; all they need for starting pitchers is stopgaps, but if they decide to get something more, there a definitely options; RF they have at least two internal options should they decide to go that route; if Youkilis goes anywhere it is because they feel Middlebrooks is ready (or if it’s Youk temporarily/occasionally moving to DH Lowrie can play a reasonable 3B); and DH can be covered by Lavarnway and/or a rotation of Youkilis/Lowrie/etc. That leaves the bullpen needing to be upgraded, but really, how many teams can’t claim the same need?
There are/were issues with things that happened with this team last year, but it wasn’t anything that can’t be cured by a new manager, and enforcement of stricter rules. There is enough talent on this team to still contend for the division next year without any significant changes.
At the end of the day we lose, because we keep responding and giving him a platform. We all agree, he’s biased. Let’s move on.
I’ll agree with much of what you said and it very well may not be as bad as I make it sound (only one opinion). Something just isn’t sitting right with me about the team as currently constructed. Yes, I am a Yankee fan and I want my team to win, but when I make these comments I do stand behind them and I’ll admit that everything the Sox do is closely tied to the Yanks and vice versa so I’ve invested more thought into making some of these comments. They are not entirely baseless.
Honestly the people who are exaggerating the extent of the problems the most are in the Boston media, so I can’t really blame you specifically for that.
It’s funny to me how the tone can go from “this might be one of the best teams in the history of ever” to “this team needs to be completely torn apart and rebuilt” over one bad month (talking about the media). The reality is that this team probably wasn’t quite as good as people thought it was at the beginning of the year, and it’s not nearly as bad as people think it is at the end of the year.
Some minor tweaking, and better discipline, and this team should be able to win 95ish games next year.
You are forgetting that, despite losing 20 games in the last month of a season, this Red Sox team still managed to win 90 games and they still have lots of cash to spend. I’m not saying that either the Red Sox or Yankees will make the playoffs next season, with the Devil Rays and Blue Jays looking increasingly competitive, but they don’t have nearly as many holes as a team like the Orioles.
WALL.
It’s going to be a BUSY offseason, yes. The team is not a disaster though.
“As it currently stands, at a minimum, they need to sign a SS, a veteran catcher, 2 starting pitchers, RF, maybe 3rd (pending Youks progress as he might have to DH for a while), if not , then a DH, and a lot of bullpen personal including technically finding a closer or re-signing their own.”
The SS and veteran catcher “needs” are made up by you and are just silly. Scutaro for SS and Salty/Lavarnway for catcher is more than adequate. 2 back-of-the-rotation starters, RF, DH and bullpen sounds like pretty much any other teams laundry list. DH will likely be another more minor issue too, as I’d be pretty surprised if Ortiz doesn’t come back. Everyone needs to work on their bullpen every year. Everyone needs more starting pitching. RF is the only “hole” I really see for them this year.
So, yes. They have a LOT to do. But it’s not a trainwreck, as much as you’d like to believe it is. There is nothing on their list that looks like it’ll be HARD for them to find this year. Yes, they have other concerns down the road, but again, every team has them. Your good ol’ Yanks have huge concerns coming up, with a bunch of aging stars on huge contracts. And assuming NY gets CC back for 6-7, that’ll be another contract to add to that list.
except our lineup was better than yours this year and Beckett/Lester/Buchholz beats any combo of SPs in your rotation. and the fact that we didn’t even get anything out of Crawford.
some of what you say amazes me. bias can only go so far
What points exactly? You claim they need a SS..Scutaro says hello. You claim they need a veteran catcher..why? Salty and Lavarnway are more than adequate. You claim Crawford’s skill set doesn’t apply, which is insane, he just had a terrible year. I’ll keep going if you want…
BLOW IT ALL UP
Ideally, i would love if the Red Sox made a splash in the trade market, attempt to acquire a pitcher from a team with a lot of debth, needs a shortstop, and is offensively hopeless. That brings 2 teams to mind right away, the Giants and the A’s. You could put together an offer to the giants that would send Youk, Lowrie, Reddick, and anywhere from 1-3 prospects to acquire Cain and Sanchez. We solve the rotation problem and SF can convert Youk back to 1b, they would have a viable SS, and decent OF debth from that trade. As for the A’s, depending on the asking price, we could either send Youk (he’s on the verge of diminshing in skill so now it the time to trade, he’s injury prone, and he’s a club house cancer) for Gonzales, and if they don’t want Youk-, send Lowrie and Reddick/Kalish, possibly a low level prospect as well if they want more…From the free agent market…pick up Scutaro’s option, pull a Robert Kraft and set a price on Papi and Pap, and don’t go over it, if Pap walks sign Madson/Bell, if Papi walks slot in Youk if we keep him or Lavarnway. If youk walks sign Betimet, or if you want Youk as a full time DH, still sign Betimet…Sign a RF like Willingham, Swisher if he’s available, or in house options…Stay away from giving years to Beltran. Sign low risk high reward players for the ‘pen…(Broxton, Capps, Nathan, Zumaya) and let Wake and Tek walk…best case scenario for the sox in 2012:
Starting Rotation:
Lester
Beckett
Cain/Gonzales
Buccholz
Sanchez/Bedard/Danks from CHW???
Bullpen:
CL: Madson
SU: Bard
RHP: Aceves, Broxton/Nathan/Capps/Zumaya(pick 2)
LHP: Doubront, Morales
Lineup:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
A-Gon
Willingham
Crawford
Lavarnway
Saltalamcchia
Scutaro
Betimet
Bench:
Kalish
Aviles
(pick a catcher)
Conor Jackson
……What the heck.
Willingham’s defense would kill whatever he can do to hit. If you brought him in, it for darn sure be as a DH.
Good ideas, u might have over done it with the youkilis lowire reddick 1-3 prospects part. Plus I believe Beltran would be a better option bc he’s a switch hitter and he willnt cost us a draft pick. I believe we should trade for a elite starter and then trade for a pitcher like liriano, or volquez. For the bullpen I’d let pap walk of the bidding gets up to 50-60mm. Sign Madson, and broxton.
“Will the Red Sox finally provide him(Ortiz) with the long-term deal he’s been seeking for years?”
Is 2 years long term?
Might be too long term if you ask me.
Boston biggest problem is upper management and their fans. They all through their players under the bus along with the manager and general manager. They should take some lessons from the Cards fans and support their team. Last year Theo and Tito were the genius’s, now I can’t believe their both gone.
Well actually, the players should have been thrown under the bus because they were the ones who actually blew it.
I agree. It is definitely my fault they had the historic collapse in September.
I’m hoping they don’t make any bad moves that screw us over in the long run, especially with SPs. I don’t want to overpay for Sabathia, Darvish, or Wilson.
Lets hope we get some people like Oswalt, Bedard, Kuroda, Capuano, Harden, and Vazquez. Underrated guys that we can get on 1-year deals, so we can spend big in the 2012 offseason.
I think Jim Thome would be a good addition for the Sox, IMO.
He can still hit you 15-20 home runs depending on the amount of at bats he’s given. He isn’t going to be an every day DH like a David Ortiz, so he wouldn’t be stealing that many at bats away from Lavarnway. Great clubhouse guy, a leader, respected around the game, etc.
Jim Thome will definitely retire in Cleveland.
First job, backup catcher, or better yet, a good platoon partner with Salty. Ramon Hernandez would be a good choice.
Let David Ortiz walk, sign Josh Willingham. Now pitching, I think they need a change since Papelbon has had problems…… Ryan Madson would be my player of choice. Let Wakefield, Varitek, and Bedard leave. Sign Roy Oswalt, Rich Harden, and Jason Marquis.
In the miracle that everybody is healthy use Harden and Marquis as relievers/spot starters.
Or do basically none of that aside from letting Wake, ‘Tek, and probably Ortiz walk.
so let them walk and replace them internally? They need to do something.
They need 2 starters, a backup catcher, a closer, and a DH. Hopefully the DH would be a right handed bat
Lavarnway can be their primary DH and backup catcher (or having a catcher as a DH they could really carry a third, and they have guys in the minors who are well suited for backup catchers), they can get a couple scrap bin guys to compete for the 4th and 5th spots, and/or use Doubront/Weiland/Aceves. And Bard can (and likely will) be their closer.
How about Salty, Lavarnway, and Doumit? That would provide a ton of flexibility as far as C/DH/OF/Bench Bats…
“Jason Varitek (Type B C)”
Wait, so Varitek would net us a draft pick? So he’s officially more useful playing for someone else at this point. This is a tried and true testament to how ignorant people are when they say Saltalamacchia wouldn’t be an adequate catcher. When Jason Varitek, after his last four seasons, is STILL a ranked free agent, you know the talent pool at said position is thin.