Expect the White Sox to consider trading established players as they retool for manager Robin Ventura's rookie season in 2012.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Adam Dunn, DH: $44MM through 2014
- Alex Rios, OF: $39.5MM through 2014
- Alexei Ramirez, SS: $32.5MM
- Paul Konerko, 1B: $25.5MM through 2013
- Jake Peavy, SP: $21MM through 2012
- Matt Thornton, RP: $12MM through 2013
- Jesse Crain, RP: $9MM through 2013
- Sergio Santos, RP: $8.25MM through 2014
- Gavin Floyd, SP: $7MM through 2012
- A.J. Pierzynski, C: $6MM through 2012
- Dayan Viciedo, 3B: $3.25MM through 2012
- Will Ohman, RP: $2.5MM through 2012
Arbitration Eligible Players (estimated salaries)
- John Danks, SP: $8MM
- Carlos Quentin, OF: $7.5MM
Contract Options
- Jason Frasor, RP: $3.75MM club option (Type B free agent)
Free Agents
- Mark Buehrle (Type B SP), Juan Pierre (Type B OF), Omar Vizquel (unranked UT IF), Ramon Castro (unranked C)
Going all-in didn't work out for the White Sox. After spending $127MM on a team that won just 79 games and trading their manager, the White Sox intend to ease up this offseason. Reality has set in, replacing the optimism of a year ago, but GM Kenny Williams says the team isn't going into rebuilding mode. With players like Adam Dunn, Alex Rios and Jake Peavy on the books, Chicago's going to retool instead.
It appears the White Sox will consider trading Carlos Quentin, John Danks and Gavin Floyd. They could use an infusion of talent. The White Sox, who opened the 2011 season with the 27th-ranked farm system in the game, according to Baseball America, spent less on this summer's amateur draft than any other team.
Interest in Quentin, a free agent after 2012, would likely be strong. Teams such as the Rockies, Mariners, A's, Braves, Twins and Orioles could have interest in the outfielder, who has averaged 27 homers per season with an .857 OPS since 2008. Though both Floyd and Danks will earn $7MM or more next year, they would draw heavy interest trade market. They're under 30, have been steady producers for years and wouldn't require the same financial commitment as C.J. Wilson or other free agents.
The White Sox could let Mark Buehrle walk. Few pitchers match his durability — he has surpassed 200 innings in each of his 11 seasons in the rotation — but the White Sox could turn to younger, cheaper options like Chris Sale and Zach Stewart instead. Assuming the White Sox offer Buehrle arbitration, they'll collect a compensatory draft pick for losing the Type B free agent.
Juan Pierre, another Type B free agent, probably doesn't fit into Chicago's long-term plans. He told Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune he doesn't expect the White Sox to place him high on their list of offseason priorities. Even if the White Sox trade Quentin, they have outfielders in Viciedo, Rios and Alejandro de Aza, so Pierre will likely depart without an offer of arbitration. Free agent backups Omar Vizquel and Ramon Castro will probably leave as well, though they aren't tied to compensation picks.
Last offseason's Adam Dunn deal soured in a hurry, so it's possible the White Sox will take a backseat to this year's free agent frenzy. This would mean relying on relatively unproven players like de Aza, Viciedo, Stewart, Sale and Brent Morel and could mean more responsibility for Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge and Addison Reed. If the White Sox are prepared to go younger, as they've suggested, this offseason could be a quiet one in terms of free agent signings.
Like most teams, the White Sox will likely add a reliever or two over the course of the offseason, not that there's much urgency when it comes to Chicago's 'pen. Matt Thornton, Jesse Crain, Will Ohman and newly extended closer Sergio Santos provide Ventura with four reliable arms. The White Sox also hold a $3.75MM option for Jason Frasor, a Type B free agent. The Illinois native struggled through 20 appearances in Chicago, so Williams may decide to decline the option without offering arbitration and rely on a more affordable reliever, such as Reed. It's possible that Frasor has some trade value to a team looking for relievers. The club could decline the option and offer arbitration, keeping Frasor if he accepts and obtaining a pick if he declines.
The White Sox have already committed $90MM to next year's team, without accounting for Danks, Quentin or minimum salary players. Dunn and Rios aren't going anywhere, so the White Sox are stuck with their bloated contracts, clinging to hope that the former stars will rebound. They could stay in the AL Central race next year if enough goes their way, but if they do it probably won't be because of high-profile offseason acquisitions.
Really, the whole situation can best be summed up in the immortal words of my childhood magic 8 ball: Outlook not so good.
But, as usual, I’m still looking forward to next season. Because hope springs eternal and I am a masochist. Ugh.
They almost finished .500 with 2 of the worst everyday position players in the league.
The theme of your off season should be .. can’t get any worse.
I was thinking of going with “Lather, rinse and repeat”, but I will give serious consideration to your suggestion. Because, for the love of god, if it gets worse, I’m defecting to the Astros. Just kidding… Maybe.
Who has a more bleak look for 2012? The CHisox with their bad contracts minus Guillen or the Cubs with their bad contracts plus Epstein?
Bleak for the Cubs? Epstein will be a blessing, Hendry is gone, Quade likely gone and most bad contracts are gone or will be when Zambrano goes. The future is bright my friend and the Cubs needle is pointing up!
Could have been worse. They may have been stuck with DeWayne Wise as a starter again. Even the vastly over paid Rios is an upgrade over him, then anyone in the game is.
Would think that Dunn is bound to make a comeback this year, he is just too good to have 2 season’s as bad as 2011 was for him.
Edit:
Hey YFS78.. With regards to your post below and most bleak outlook contract wise for 2012.. Cubs dead weight contracts just cannot be moved, while the Chisox could probably move Dunn if they chose to. Dunn at least has baseball skills, or is not a whacko, unlike the Cubs bad contracts.
“ChiSox could probably move Dunn”
If you know of any team interested in paying a player $42,000,000 over the next 3 years to hit .160, call Kenny right away.
Do you think that team would take Soriano from the Cubs as well? He had MVP type numbers last year compared to Dunn’s.
Dunn has had 1 poor season since 2002, generally has an OBP in the area of .370 for his career and hits 35-40 HR as the norm, PLUS knows how to be selective at the plate and take a walk. Soriano on the other hand does not know how to NOT swing at anything from his ankles to his eyes, generally has an OBP hovering around .300 and is 4 years older. Not to mention that Soriano for the most part has not had a really productive season since his 1st year with the Cubs.
Odds on one of the 2 being worthwhile next year is on Dunn, not the continually back sliding Soriano.
I also think replacing Greg Walker as hitting coach will help.
If the White Sox were unaware, Juan Pierre is probably going to be available. He’d fit in well there.
Hopefully Dunn turns it around, or else they have 85 million locked up between him and Rios..
ouch..
Watching Rios in CF makes me lose my will to live. At least the Adam Dunn horror show only happens for less than 50% of the duration of the game, but we get 9 full innings of Rios -sometimes more!
I know what you mean.. I thought the jays giving up on him would spark something in him, it kinda worked last year but he’s right back to his old habits..
He’s not a young buck anymore, he’s 30 ..
Dunn had an all-time awful season. I knew he was really bad but then i looked up his stats and they were just hideous. Absolutely dreadful
oh yah it was brutal for him, all the boos as well didn’t help ..
hopefully an off season will clear his mind and he will come back closer to his career norms
with ozzie gone, rios will play ball. Oz was enough to drive my granny INSANE 🙂 dunn will be fine also. there is NO help for peavy NONE
Jesus! Jake Peavy is making 21 MM next season?
only 17 for 2012, 22 mil for 2013 (club option) or a 4 mil buyout
so i guess they are (safely) assuming the white sox wont pick up the option so are already tacking on the 4 million to his 2012 salary
Jesus! Jake Peavy is making 17 MM next season?
That 4 mil buyout looks really reasonable when you put it that way
Jesus! Jake Peavy gets a 4 MM buyout?
No. It doesn’t work for you.
Dunn’s 2011 could be an aberration, brought on by the fact that he was in a new league, in a new position, in a big media climate, on a team presumed to be a serious contender. And I think it was the first time he had such a big contract. His (lack of) offseason regimen may finally have caught up to him. I think there’s a 50-50 chance that he makes the adjustments he needs to make and becomes productive again.
Rios went from bad with Toronto to horrible with Sox, to good for a few months the next year, sliding into bad territory to awful again last year. I have much less faith in any kind of comeback from him. He may get traded, if Kenny finds an equally horrible contract (too bad he’s already got Dunn and Peavy), with the Sox eating the remaining money, especially if they can get a decent young power bat when they trade Quentin, Floyd, or Danks.
I think Dunn took some bad advice and changed his swing. Hopefully the people he took the advice from are no longer with the organization.
The only change in his swing was that it was slower.
I bet he thought because he didn’t need to play the field he thought he didn’t need to come to ST in shape and therefore lost some bat speed, my assumption is he’ll work hard this offseason to change that.
Although it looked good picking up Rios in 2010, I do think that KW claiming his entire contract should easily compare to Reagins taking on the Vernon Wells contract as one of the worst moves of all time. I do (and did) think that adding Mike Napoli to that trade makes it beyond discussion, though.
Edit: And only to state the obvious – even the current incarnation of the Sox really can only go up from here. Baseball is a game of averages, and as long as the team can stay healthy, everyone should revert back towards theirs (which probably still won’t put them ahead of Detroit).
I feel bad for White Sox fans..not just for these horrible horrible contracts..but the horrible play by play commentators they have. I can’t that annoying thing they spew out whenever a sox player hits a homerun.
oh man, couldn’t agree more. 1,000 fuDGing times YES.
+1, Hawk is just completely intolerable. The worst of the worst. Maybe the worst ever. I’d rather have McCarver do the play by play of my daily life while standing next to me than have to listen to Hawk call a baseball game.
Yes, he is THAT bad at his job.
I don’t know about that one, I wouldn’t want Tim McCarver saying the reason I’m eating cereal is because I’m eating cereal. He might not last a day around me. lol
vs Hawk constantly referring to the Chisox as “The good guys” and referring them all by their first name?
Both are horrible at what they do, we can all agree with that.
You can turn it off it you want to………yes!
That’s a tough call right there. Those two are the worst of the worst. You could probably throw Joe Morgan into the mix as well.
I agree, however most White Sox fans think he is a extremely knowledgeable source of baseball wisdom.
Hawk said Ozzie is one of the best managers in the game, and Sox fans lap it up.
Honest to God, last year Hawk said “Johnny Danks is one of the best left-handers in all of baseball”.
Part of the new chapter of White Sox baseball should include Hawk getting a pink slip right away.
Turn down the TV and listen to the radio if you don’t like him. Or better yet, hire McCarver to personally call the Sox games for you.
You missed my point. I hate them both but Hawk is the worst caller in the history of the game. McCarver is 10% more professional, but still awful.
I’d rather hire Vin Scully to call every game ever. He’s the best ever.
Hawk is god awful. So unprofessional.
how does kenny williams still have a job?
After trading away Gio Gonzalez and Nick Swisher and getting absolutely nothing in return, in addition to taking on the Rios contract and giving Juan Pierre 700+ plate appearances when he had a -0.4 WAR when any replacement level player from AAA could have done better, I dont know.
Trade Alexei to the Giants!
We’ll give you…um…Adrianza!
Seriously, I wonder what it would take though. I would love to do without Brown, but I don’t think Peguero, Hembree and (insert low-ceiling prospect) would be enough. Maybe once Panik becomes tradeable?
No way do the White Sox trade their best position player for prospects when this article even tells you that they are going to try and re-tool, not rebuild. Also when figuring out trades ask yourself “who would play SS for them if this was to happen?”, generally teams only trade valuable players if they are blocking an equal or superior player, such as Rasmus blocking Jay. So whats left is the blockbuster, their best player for another teams best player, so the answer to your question is: Cain or Lincecum.
Yeah, didn’t think so.
Jay is nowhere near an equal or superior player to Rasmus. The Cards traded Rasmus away because he was unhappy and wouldn’t listen to them.
Jay was worth 2 more wins than Rasmus this year (2.8 vs 0.8), I understand Rasmus’s ceiling is way higher and that’s why you posted that, but Jay is not bad and hardly a massive downgrade like you imply.
Sure, not a massive downgrade, but neither does he fit into the example of “generally teams only trade valuable players if they are blocking an equal or superior player” that you posted.
Well then lets agree to disagree and move on (or does that break the rules of the internet?)
What a terrible combination of players…overpaid + under-performing = total disaster…Wait do they want to pay Bobby Bonilla too?
My prediction: Quentin is gone, one of Danks/Floyd is gone, one of Thornton/Crain/Frasor is gone. Buehrle is re-signed (2yrs + 1 option). Roation is Peavy, Buehrle, Danks/Floyd, Humber, Sale.
If Beckham, Rios and Dunn can rebound to hit at least .250 and Peavy starts 28 games with a 3.50 ERA, then this team can compete. And that’s not really asking much. If anything, they’d be competitive enough and have enough money available at the trade deadline to bridge any gap they have.
Striker – you have it right – Quentin to the Braves for Mike Minor – Danks to Rockies for Hammel and Seth Smith. Buehrle signs for two tens and a option. Frazor is gone. Keep Sale in bullpen. Dunn will be back big time. Peavy a year now off arm problems.
Could be a real good team. Need a speed guy.
Pretty sure the White Sox would balk at having to take Hammel back in that deal.
If we trade Danks it’s going to be for player(s) we have at least 4 years of control of and Seth Smith and Hammel don’t fit that mold. Plus we don’t need outfielders.
Sale is destined for the bullpen. He’s a waste in the bullpen.
“Sale is destined for the bullpen. He’s a waste in the bullpen.”
what
Peavy hasn’t started 28 games since 2007. If I’m the Sox, I trade Quentin Danks AND Floyd, sign a random to be my #5 starter. If Dunn Rios & Peavy can make strong comebacks you’ll always be able to fill in holes on the roster at the deadline. If not, you cashed in early and don’t have to worry about them slumping with big paychecks and no big returns at the deadline in their walk-years.
Plus you have a productive Viciedo, hopeful turnaround by Beckham. Rios is done. Mark it down on the big board….yes! Dunn can rebound. I think Greg Walker being gone will help the team a lot.
I wouldn’t be suprised if the White Sox will be better simply by replacing an egomanical imbecile of a manager who blamed the only success he had on Scott Posednik’s grittyness, when all his regular pitchers on his 2005 team had a career year.
What are the chances of the Red Sox trading for someone like Danks or Floyd?
very good – start with Bard end with Lowie – better yet make it blockbuster
Crawford – Bard – Lowie and cash – Floyd – Beckham – Dunn
That trade makes no sense
For the bosox for a few reasons. Beckham is a secondbasemen for a reason and the bosox have a MVP type guy already there and the amount of money the bosox would have to send the whitesox for Crawford makes the trade not
Possible unless they just really want to move Crawford.
As long as Kenny Williams is still employed, I will have very little hope of anything good happening on the south side.
There isn’t a GM in the league with less vision than Williams and there is not a single reason to think that that is going to change anytime soon.
Your classic bad-contract swap could be Rios to the Braves for Lowe if the Sox kicked in some cash ($5 million? $10 million?). Rios could play any of the three OF spots as needed and get plenty of plate appearances. I’d rather make a deal for Quentin, but that would require a young pitcher and the Braves would still be stuck with Lowe for one more season.
A bad contract will probably be how they rid themselves of Lowe, but why Rios? That makes no sense for the Braves. They’re almost out of the woods with Lowe. He’s off the books after next season. Why extend the problem two more years? They never have hardly any money to spend as it is. Plus, LF is really the one area they can look to add a player. They’ve got a SS on the horizon in the minors, so they probably won’t look to make any big upgrades there (other than a short term stop-gap). So, basically, if they’re going to improve the offense, it’ll probably come from an OFer. Rios is not an upgrade. He’s awful. I’d rather just put Lowe in the bullpen and throw Diaz in LF. At least Diaz is capable of a somewhat respectable AVG.
Blurba – being a Braves fan, yes with the contracts we have coming off the books, we also have due arbitration. I suspect Jurrjens and maybe even Lowe (I hope) will be dealt.
Hawk says sit back, relax and strap it on…..you’re in for a wild ride. I can’t wait to hear Hawk’s excuses and ump blaming this year. The worst voice in sports.
I’m not sure how much value Quentin will have. He hurt his shoulder at the end of the year. Shoulder injuries affect your swing. He might have to prove he’s healthy before they can trade him. And doesn’t he get hurt every year? The White Sox have lost their division by a combined 22 games over the last two years. To hope everyone bounces back would be a foolish plan.
Good point on Quintin. Hopefully no team will miss that red flag.
What is the deal, man…are you or are you not a Sox fan? If so, why are you happy that the Sox couldn’t maximize potential trade value for Quintin. If, not why are you wasting your life posting about the White Sox…does Hawk bug you that much?
I’m just a baseball fan. if I recognize the problem with Quentin, player evaluators in MLB won’t miss it.
I could see them packaging Danks or Floyd with Quentin for bigger prospects. I definitely think this is a team that needs to start thinking about re-loading.
So according to that fact (combined 22 games back from first the past two years for the Sox), the entire division, besides the Tigers, has no chance at winning the division next year…. Cleveland has a combined 40 games back the past two years, KC is 51 games in the hole and the Twins have a big fat 32 games back, accumulated in one season, to deal with. Also, the Tigers were 13 back last year…not much better than the Sox 15 games back this season.
I was just replying to a post that was hoping for bounce back years on Rios, Beckam and Dunn. Hoping for something to happen is no way to plan a year. I believe Baseball Prospectus projected the Sox to be around .500 last year. Pretty close. If they field the same team as last year, they should expect the same results.
16 back but who’s counting.
I say trade Quentin & Floyd to Cincy for Yonder Alonzo & Chapman
More than likely would have to be Quentin+ danks for yonder and chap. But that trade makes no sense for the reds.
Throw in Sale and Viciedo and the Reds still say no thanks.
With fellow cubans Alexei and Viciedo, Yonder and Chapman would be the perfect fit. We could even throw in Thornton and give them Danks instead of Floyd. And then we put Sale in the rotation and Chap takes over his spot in the pen. Put Yonder in left and let him back up Paulie & Dunn at (1b/dh), resign Buerhle, sign maybe one rh releiver, and call it a good offseason.
As Jays fans we never forget to thank the Angels for taking the Wells contract off our hands, but we always forget thank the white sox for taking Rios off our hands. So Thank you, thank you very much!
It’s amazing how everyone on Earth knew how bad a move that was by WIlliams other than Williams.
you should actually thank the tigers, kenny claimed rios in order to block the tigers from doing it…
Shrewed.
I actually think the sox are in good shape..90 mill next season and good money coming off after 2012…so baring no big random free agent splashes the sox payroll should be in steady decline. I think they should trade quentin, floyd, and Danks. That frees up another potential 30 mill and they could move thornton too. I say trade thornton and Danks to the yankees, no not for montero or one of the B boys, but for a AA pitcher or two. Young controlled guys, not top prospects but not project guys either. I think that could easily be done. Then Trade Floyd somewhere like boston for again a mid level prospect or two and trade carlos to the NL, braves maybe for another mid level pitcher. Also AJ could be traded, this would be more than likely a 100% salary dump again there is a team out there that would take him at least as a back up. That frees up even more money..This could potentially get their payroll under 80, close to 70 mill. They could use some freed money to sign buehrle on the cheap. I like the 2/20 with a 3rd option year that is being floated around here….Again im not saying trade these guys for teams top prospects but also not as 100% salary dump project prospect types.
Rotation could/ should then be Peavy-Sale-Humber-Axelrod-Stewart/ buehrle…
Bullpen Reed-Hector Santiago-ohman-craine-frasor(resigned for cheap) Santos- and some AAA guy as mop up.
Then go ahead and DFA Rios. Someone will resign him on a minor league deal. He is too young with too much potential to not get at least a minor league deal. So the money saved by him signing with another team(no more than 1 mill) is used to pay for De Aza and Lilibridge. The money to rios is a sunk cost so why not use what little is saved to pay for better production form guys like De Aza and Lilibridge. Heck even if no one signs him its addition by subtraction. Again that money is gone so why keep him there hoping he figures it out.
Line up could then be (position and batting order)
LF- Deaza
CF- Lilibridge(could lead off with De Aza batting second for more L/R balance)
RF-Vicedio
1st-Konerko
DH-Dunn(could be moved down if he is bad again, or potential DFA’d like rios again someone would sign him on at least a minor league deal, don’t know who would DH but there’s ton’s of options out there)
SS- Ramirez(no point to trade unless escobar kills it in spring and they get a good deal for a pitcher in spring training)
C- Flowers
2nd-Beckham(his last season to turn it around before potentially trading)
3rd- Morel(hopefully his september is a good showing of him, Not that I think he is going to be a 30hr guy but a 15-20 joe crede type could be very nice)
Bench of Phigley or castro resigned for cheap, OF back up Jordan Danks, infield back up omar or AAA guy…get another OF and corner IF back up off the streets….
Not a bad team but not a great team, best of all its a cheap team with a farm system that gets nicely stocked from the trades…And at the dead line if the sox are out of it Konerko, alexi, peavy and dunn with hopefully decent years could all be moved.
5 guys in the lineup that have not had one full season in the majors? Uhg.
only flowers, vicedio and Deaza have yet to have a full year everyone else has…
A rotation of Peavy, Sale, Humber, Axelrod and Stewart may be the worst in all of MLB, with the Cubs a close 2nd.
no they wouldnt…why on earth would the reds say no to an already established solid #3 starter who is cheap and will be cheaply resigned, a power hitting corner outfielder, a blow it by you lefty with a great slider and change up who has good controll and a beastly super young hitter who can play 1st, left, right and decent enough 3rd that his bat makes up for his D there for an unrpoven 1st/DH and a flame throwing leftying with controll problems
Why is Danks going to resign cheaply? Quentins red flags have already been pointed out. And you might be putting Viciedo in the hall of fame a little too soon. I know it’s a small sample size but I wouldn’t describe his first 100 at bats as “beastly” or “super”.
The thing I’m most sick about is that the Sox may have to let Buehrle go and trade Danks, Quentin, Thornton and maybe even Ramirez just to keep the bloated contracts of Dunn, Rios and Peavy on the books and break even next year.
Say what you want about Ozzie, but Kenny should also have been let go for getting us into this mess.
Just want to note that Hawk, as awful as he is, is actually more tolerable than Ed Farmer. My offseason project in the basement is to build, patent, and market a Hawk Audio Filter.
Kenny Williams blew up the farm system , and sent a ton of young quality players away ,
especially guys like Hudson. How come Hendry gets canned , and Williams gets more
chances? Milwaukee with a population of 560,000 makes both Chicago teams look like
rank idiots.
dsa