WEDNESDAY: The Red Sox are backing off since they aren't eager to commit to an aging reliever who will require a multiyear deal, according to John Tomase of the Boston Herald. The Red Sox would have offered more than one year at a certain price, but the sides couldn't come to an agreement.
TUESDAY, 7:47pm: Cordero prefers to return to the Reds, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOXSports.com, who adds that the Rockies are not a suitor for the right-hander.
4:45pm: The Reds and Red Sox aren't the only clubs involved. The Angels and another team have been in dialogue with Cordero, according to Alex Speier of WEEI.com. "We’ve been exploring multiyear deals and we’re very confident that’s where we’re going to end up,” Stringfellow told Speier. “The teams that we’ve spoken to, none of them have balked at that of the four remaining clubs.” Cordero will only consider closing roles.
1:28pm: The Red Sox have had increased dialogue with Francisco Cordero this week, according to ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick (on Twitter). The Reds have resumed talks with Cordero and remain interested in re-signing him.
The 36-year-old posted a 2.45 ERA with 5.4 K/9, 2.8 BB/9 and a 50% ground ball rate in 69 2/3 innings for the Reds this past season. Cordero reached the 30-save plateau for the fifth consecutive season, saving 37 games. However, his average fastball velocity dropped to 93 mph and peripheral stats such as xFIP (4.14) and SIERA (3.91) suggest his 2.45 ERA may be artificially low. Agent Bean Stringfellow represents the three-time All-Star.
I think this guy is a trainwreck waiting to happen in Boston. I’d rather they made melancon the closer.
always the the guys of the 7th and 8th throws more innings than the closer, so who youd rather have throwing more?, melancon or cordero???
What are the Sox thinking, this guy can’t close in the East.
Prove it…
Can he close in the Midwest, South, or West?
What makes you say that?
His K/9 sank like a rock and has fallen every season since 2007. The only reason his ERA was good because his BABIP was .214 (career avg. .294)
Paying $8-10 million a year for 36 year old with a ~4.20 xFIP the last three years seems ill-advised (at best). His SIERA is almost a full run higher than the remaining available closers. That should terrify Red Sox fans.
I’ve gotta think this is some sort of diversion.
Melancon almost lost his bowels on the mound when he was with the Yankees, especially against Boston. I’m not sold that in one year closing for the worst team in baseball in a football market in a mostly weak division Mark Melancon is all of a sudden a pillar of confidence in the toughest place to play in the hardest division with the best hitters.
I’m happy that the Sox increased dialogue with Francisco Cordero. He understands big words too. It was embarrassing when the Sox didn’t think he could understand the language and did things like talk louder or talk in choppy sentences simultaneously while using a form of miming/charades for conversation.
$ave$!
red sox pitching staff is in shambles. 3 good starters, bard, and thats about it. melancon is a huge ?
Ever heard of Alfredo Aceves? probably not.. Just making a non educated guess with that post.
Ever heard of Alfredo Aceves? probably not.. Just making a non educated guess with that post.
Jonathan Papelbon 2011 SD:MD – 32:4
Francisco Cordero 2011 SD:MD – 34:6
I’m not insanely fond of the guy, but I’m open to the idea. He’s not an elite reliever or anything, but he can come out there and not get blown out.
Yikes, pass. His last few years have been wildly unimpressive and he’s not young. There are a million ways the potential money spent on Cordero could go to a more valuable cause.
he has the body wight/size of lee Arthu Smith.. That is.. Fat, but ain’t got the upper 90’s FB Lee Arthur did when he pitched for boston.
Wonder if he does sign with the Sox he will refuse to work out and get even fatter also?
SD:MD? Fill me in.
Shutdown/Meltdowns. Basically it’s a metric Fangraphs developed relatively recently to indicate the frequency of a reliever to either shut the door or completely fall apart. Not nearly as effective as looking at actual peripherals, but it beats the save system.
YES! Please boston sign coco-oh no! I’m a reds fan and the last thing i wanna see is him saving games this season
Admittedly, I don’t follow him religiously or anything, but I fail to see an epic issue. He’s not lights out or anything, but he’s far from terrible. He’s kept his walk rate below 2 per 9 for three years running. He’s got a bit of homeritis, but isn’t Cincinnati a bit of a homer friendly park? His K/9 is awful, but as long as he’s keeping the ball on the ground, he’ll get you by.
There are much worse relievers out there.
I think you’re on the wrong stat page… Cordero has never posted a BB/9 below 2, let alone for three years running. He’s also not an especially ground ball heavy pitcher (with 2011’s 50% being an outlier).
Right page, wrong stat, I was looking at his K/BB. Looking at THAT, suddenly I’m less interested.
Still, if he could be gotten cheap, I’d consider him as a middle reliever, the SD:MD ratio’s okay.
I don’t really buy into the Shutdown/Meltdown thing as much as I buy into ugly walk rates and poor strikeout rates from my relievers.
I’d much rather spread the wealth on a bunch of risk/reward relievers or hand the middle innings to prospects than hand someone like Cordero upwards of $5M/year (and I can’t imagine he’d even be that cheap).
There’s just no way he ends up being a bargain or even neutral value given the saves on his resume.
I’m with you Matthew, especially when you’re looking at the fact that middle relief isn’t exactly a weakness on this team.
If you watched him the last few years why we call him things like Oh-No Coco and Cardiac Cordero. His ERA shows a different story. Look at his xFIP. He always finds a way to make the 9th interesting, whether it be giving up bases loaded or giving up 2 runs with a 3 run lead. He also goes deep into counts more often then not, just making it more intense. He was very good numbers wise all year last year other than the week before the All Star break. Don’t expect another ERA next year that starts in the 2s.
We don’t need someone that makes the 9 th interesting –we had one that did that and just signed with the Phils.
Actually there aren’t worse closers available in this market… not to repeat myself but..
His K/9 sank like a rock and has fallen every season since 2007. The only reason his ERA was good because his BABIP was .214 (career avg. .294)Paying $8-10 million a year for 36 year old with a ~4.20 xFIP the last three years seems ill-advised (at best). His SIERA is almost a full run higher than the remaining available closers. That should terrify Red Sox fans.I’ve gotta think this is some sort of diversion to gain leverage on Bailey or Madson.
I said relievers, not closers. I sincerely doubt anyone actually pays him to close.
I hope you’re right…
It would be an OK move.
And the greatest name in sports resurfaces…
Bean Stringfellow?
Rusty Kuntz?
you win.
You know, I have seen the rumors in some places but it seems not everyone reported the same rumor. It was that the Sox and Rays want Andrew Bailey. If anyone can confirm that rumor, this here is good news for the Rays. Also, Cordero doesn’t scare me at all.
At least we can all agree, this player’s agent has the best name ever.
Oh god why.
Also, I’m sorry, but “agent Bean Stringfellow”???
Why not? He’s entirely middle of the road. If he can be had for cheap, he’s a more than serviceable bullpen option.
I’m not very optimistic about him coming for cheap with all his saves. But as long as they don’t try to have him close games…
Ruben Amaro’s not looking for a closer anymore, I don’t see the saves increasing his value anymore. Fewer and fewer GMs are valuing saves as a thing worth extra money, so I don’t imagine Cordero will get more than $5MM for one year in this market and even that is stretching it in my mind. If he could be had for $2/3MM, I’d consider him for middle relief. I doubt he gets a better offer.
How can you possibly question the greatest name in sports today? The man sounds as though he’s stepped out of the pages of a Dickens novel.
What team is going to sign Madson?
Angels
He’s worth a $5-$7 million/year deal.
My friends and I call him.. “coco-oh-hell no” cordero. He makes things to exciting at the end of games.. when you look at his stats they are not bad. However, i want a closer who slams the door shut in the 9th inning not one who allows runners on and making the game drama. As a reds fan..I hope you guys have him and hope he does well for you because i hate the yankees!ha.
so he’s basically our new Papelbon?
you must have only watched baseball in 2010. i’d be thrilled to know who you’d rather have in a shutdown situation outside of Kimbrel or Mariano
EDIT: and it’ll take Kimbrel a few more years of what he’s doing to be considered on Papelbon’s level
i’m not the average Red Sox fan but that’s honestly what they’re all going to remember Paps by unfortunately, that or his Irish dance after the ’07 World Series
It’s funny, almost every team’s fans say this about their closer. No one comes in every time there is a save situation and doesn’t allow a runner to reach.
It just looks worse when it’s the 9th inning and you’re up by 1 and you allow a runner to reach. Because then the “winning run” comes to the plate. So then there’s drama. When in fact, the pitcher had a whip of 1.000 that game and is getting crap for “making the game drama”
What fantastic scouting on the part of the Sox!
Positivity!
Merry Christmas!
Bet Madson’s kicking himself about now for letting Boras play his games with Ruben Amaro. He’s losing a ton of leverage.
Wonder if the Sox are trying to use Cordero to press the A’s for Bailey.
If the money is close to the same, Sox fans would you rather have Co-Co Cordero or Ryan Madson..?
they are probably negotiating with madson by negotiating publicly with cordero. madson doesn’t have a lot of options left
You don’t think the Yankees are gonna swoop in and offer him 3/$30MM to pitch the seventh?
lol
that would be so awesome.
lol By next August, Yankees could have Joba pitch the 5th, Soriano the 6th, Madson the 7th, Robertson the 8th and Rivera the 9th. One step closer to making AJ a suitable starter.
Silly question, obviously Madson.
That said, I doubt the money is even close to the same. Madson will cost a lot more money AND years.
Why obviously Madson? Do you think he is that much better than CoCo or are you concerned about dollars and years?
Can’t be under your stipulation. If the money is close to the same, you take Madson every time.
Madson’s over five years younger, gets more ground balls, walks less batters and his numbers are trending in the right direction compared to Cordero. On the last few years, he’s also striking out a lot more batters than Cordero.
I’d consider Cordero in a middle relief capacity on a very cheap guaranteed deal, but if both of them cost the same, I wouldn’t touch Cordero with a ten foot pole over Madson.
Yes, he is that much better.
Over the past 3 years he has had a far superior strikeout rate, walk rate, ground ball %, FIP… basically everything you want from a late-innings reliever.
The money won’t be the same, though.
Well, he should but there’s been a dead silence on his market. I have no clue where Madson is headed and I sure don’t see him returning to the Phillies to be a SU man.
If Bean Stringfellow does not currently represent Coco Crisp, then that needs to be rectified as soon as humanly possible.
Pretty sure he also represents Wonderful Monds.
another one of the redsox dollar store aquisitions this offseason to win a world series you gotta have pitching the sox spent their wad last year and are trying to peice together a pitching staff on the cheap that can only spell disaster
It’s obvious they are gun shy to make a big move after the Lackey and Crawford deals contributed to that epic September. But hey, Adrian Gonzalez should be worth the money.
No.. I’m hearing more luxury tax issues. I think that the Red Sox would have signed a few players already had it not been for that. It’s not worth it to overpay for free agents then pay luxury tax on top of that. Hence why they are going after such players with team friendly contracts such as Bailey and Gio etc.
Not sure I like this.
I think it’s a great idea. Madson has always been a set up guy who was forced to be a closer based on injuries and being the best viable option. He did perform fairly well. That said, I wouldn’t throw 3 years at him. If he’d sign for 2, great. I think signing Cordero for 2 and prob $7MM per year is a better allocation of $ than the $8-9/yr at 3 years Madson will get.
Theres no difference between closing and being a setup guy
Tell that to Matt Thornton.
I will right when i get off the phone with kyle farnsworth
If it came down to a difference of only one year and a couple mill per, I’d take Madson. $7MM AND two years is way more than I’d commit to Cordero.
that’s exactly what i was just thinking, he was a setup guy for Lidge in Philly until Lidge went down, then they tried Contreras as the closer but that didn’t work & they finally got Madson to be a good closer, 3rd option getting 1st option (Papelbon)-type money? I’d rather take Cordero
what?
Lidge was the closer because he was getting paid an obscene amount. and i’m fairly certain Contreras was only the closer because he had been pitching very well to that point in the season and Madson went down with an injury to his foot or something.
you would really rather have Cordero? this isn’t 2007.
I hope the Reds go with Aardsma or someone else
Isn’t Aardsma like a year away from pitching again after TJ?
We’d prefer for him to return to the Reds, too…
Signed,
Angels Fans
Disagree. He’s work out almost as well as I did.
Sincerely,
Fernando Rodney.
I don’t see a reason in him going to Anaheim. Hoping for Cincinnati, but options running low for Boston’s 9th inning.
Here’s to hoping the Red Sox are going public on this pursuit in an attempt to remove another team from competition in the Closer market. If you can give Ryan Mad…ahem excuse me, Scot Boras no other alternatives then you gain leverage in contract negotiations. I dont see LAA splurging on Madson when they have Walden. I dont see the Twins, White Sox, Padres or Mets as valid competition, financially. Outside of that, every team has addressed the CL position to a certain extent.
In short, go public on Cordero, force the Reds hand and get them to re-sign him. Then you are practically left with Madson who has NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE. At that point, you got a chance to talk Boras into a 2yr/$20-24m with a club option for a 3rd year. The option may have to include a $2-3m buyout but with way Closer market started, you’re making out like bandits.
This makes since actually. But one thing you are weighing on “force the Reds hand and get them to re-sign him” What if they don’t and call Madson who thinks the BoSox are looking somewhere else and the Reds get him for 24mil with a 3rd year option. Could back fire fast!
and i hope it does! lol
As long as Madson is willing to do a short-term deal, he’ll get the most money per year from the Red Sox. They didn’t mind paying Papelbon a ton of money as long as it was only 1 year deals. It’s the long-term 3+ year deals that scare the Red Sox away, and rightfully so.
Can’t force the Reds to do anything. When they do their budget, its set in stone and never exceeded. Cordero has basically a take it or leave it offer with very little negotiating room from Jockety. If he doesn’t take it, they’ll either work another trade for a cheaper option or go with an internal candidate
Right on. althought I hope this changes for Votto and we open up that wallet alittle more!
Signing him to a multi-year deal is bad enough, but seeing that he only wants to be a closer makes it even worse. Please stay away Red Sox!
Please just sign Ryan Madson
I think the Marshall trade by the Reds can limit Fransico’s return to Cincy
I think Coco is going to have to come down on his price and jsut sign with Cincy since the sox are out.
I can almost bet thats photo shopped….
And to think, some teams are concerned about giving this guy an 8-year contract. Tsk, tsk…
Did you read anything? He was saying that the sox did this to get madson and i said it could back fire(for the bosox) if the reds sign him. Come on man do i need to draw a picture?