The Red Sox seem "pretty confident" they'll be able to re-sign David Ortiz to a two-year deal, assuming he doesn't accept arbitration, tweets Jon Heyman of MLB Network. Here are a few more Red Sox updates from Ben Cherington's first Winter Meetings as Boston's GM:
- While Boston was thought to have interest in free agents like C.J. Wilson and Roy Oswalt, Cherington said today that he doesn't anticipate the Red Sox pursuing high-end starting pitching options, as WEEI's Alex Speier writes.
- Cherington also said today that Daniel Bard had indicated a preference for his 2012 role, though it seems he and Bard may not have been on the same page. In a text message to the Providence Journal's Brian MacPherson, Bard said he stated a willingness to move to the rotation rather than a preference to do so: "I guess making it clear that I would be willing to start may have made it seem like a preference, but I just want to make it clear that I feel like I could thrive in either role."
- It doesn't appear that the Orioles will be signing longtime Red Sox backstop Jason Varitek. According to John Tomase of the Boston Herald, O's skipper Buck Showalter addressed the topic in Dallas: "Right now, it’s not a fit for us."
So, since it’s Heyman that’s reporting it I shouldn’t expect them to re-sign him right?
Since it is Heyman reporting it, it looks like Papi will probably be an orange bird next year.
So basically the Red Sox offering Ortiz arbitration forced the Red Sox hand? They have no choice but to present a 2 year deal if they want to keep the AAV down. I guess having him for $11mm or $12mm per year, for 2 years, beats 1 year at $15.5-$16.5mm. Still don’t get it, but what does it matter at this point.
Neither option fits to me.. That 11m salary even he would get could be better used towards pitching.
Boston does not need LH sluggers, nor 36+ YO DH who clog up the slot and will not allow Youk to move around various positions and Lavarnway to stick, plus play DH as a RH power option when Youk plays 3B. Even if the went in an entirely different direction, decided to sign Willingham, he is at least capable of moving around the corner OF positions, playing DH and is RH.. Well past time for Ortiz to move on.
Stop this charade of acting like the team wants him back now. Bobby V should have had that nice and friendly 1st “chat” with him over his lazy base running over the course of the past few years rather than how bad the team supposedly wants him back.
ooook. i don’t want him back for 2012 either, but no need to bury the guy. his year’s in boston have been great. i’m grateful. i like him. he’s still a very good hitter and i hope he continues to be one for years. i just think moving on is what’s best for the team now
Was no intention to bury him there, just point out reasons as to why he did not need to be back and why I think he and Valentine would probably be at each other during their time together if Boston did sign him anyway.
Really.. Can you see him all of a sudden starting to actually run down the line when he hits the ball and it does not leave the yard all of a sudden? he has not done it for years and it would be a career changing thing for the most part that he has gotten away with for the last..6? 8? Even more seasons.
We know Valentine isn’t going to like it at all, maybe turn the other cheek for a little while, but eventually they will collide and ortiz talks as much (if not more) than Valentine does, but many Sox people (not sticking you in there) have not one time sorted him into that crowd of negative personalities for doing so.
i think you’re right and i’m not disputing anything you said, i just want to curb the bashing before it begins
a peaceful parting of the ways would be a nice change of pace in boston. thanks for the memories and good luck
I just don’t get it. You would let a proven offensive force that gave you 4.2 fWAR out of the DH spot last year and has proven his value year in and year out and shows little signs of slowing down walk just because he is left handed and you want to save the DH spot for a guy who struggles to stay on the field the last few years and a guy that hasn’t really proven anything at the MLB level? Who would you give the $11 million to? Another Lackey? Daisuke?
& David Ortiz struggled from ’08 – ’10. During that time, Youkilis was out hitting him. He couldn’t hit left handed pitching at all. Put Youkilis at DH, he stays healthy, and he hits, and actually tries instead of Ortiz’s lazy base running.
youkilis was one of the best hitters in baseball from 2008-2010
Exactly. I know he was injured last year and I know if he continues to play 3rd base he’ll continue to get injured. But I think he’s just as important to the line up as Ortiz, especially since he’s basically the only right handed power bat the Red Sox have. I don’t trust Lowrie/Aviles to hold down 3rd base for a year, especially in the line up. And I certainly don’t trust Ortiz’s ability to hit left handed pitching next year.
“Exactly. I know he was injured last year and I know if he continues to play 3rd base he’ll continue to get injured.”
This is something that gets WAY too overblown by the Boston sports media. Yes, Youk’s been injured the last few years, but there hasn’t been anything consistent. Last year was a sports hernia and hip bursitis, two things that can happen at any age (In fact, Ortiz had ankle bursitis a few years ago and there are no lingering effects) and are both treated rather easily. 2010 was a thumb injury caused by getting hit, an isolated occurrence. 2009 was an ankle injury from the WBC and people constantly get hurt at the WBC.
It’s entirely feasible that Youkilis is basically just falling apart at the seams, but the fact that he’s assumed to be destined for the DL is overblown considering each of the last three years’ injuries have been completely unrelated to each other.
He’s not an elite defender, but he was a top three bat at 3B last year and he was only a shade below average in the field. Having him AND Ortiz in the lineup is our best option offensively and while I’d prefer to move on from Ortiz, keeping him’s not a bad thing either.
They need Youk in that DH spot, like yesterday, and at least for one season, to fully heal. Dude is banged up. They need that RH bat too. He’ll be real good there, playing 40 games btw 1st and 3rd as back/up and inter-league. There are a bunch of really solid 3rd base options out there that are attainable in a trade.
I think 40 games is low (I think he plays closer to 100 games in the field), but I could see them letting Ortiz walk and using the DH spot to rotate several guys around.
Just as an example: say they let Ortiz walk and sign Beltran for RF; when Youk is DHing they play Lowrie at 3B, when Beltran is DHing they play Reddick in RF, when Gonzalez is DHing play Youk at 1B and Lowrie at 3B, and when all three are in the field play Lavarnway at DH. It keeps everyone rested without taking their bat out of the games, and give the part time/bench players plenty of ABs.
Not saying that that’s exactly how it would work, but that’s the kind of flexibility it would give them.
disappointed that i haven’t heard much about beltran yet. the more i think about that situation the more i like it. being a lefty-killer and a switch-hitter, he’d balance out the lineup in a big way
RH SP
ellsbury
pedroia
beltran
gonzalez
youkilis
crawford
lavarnway
salty
scutaro
LH SP
ellsbury
pedroia
gonzalez
beltran
youkilis
lowrie
lavarnway
crawford
scutaro
do want
Sounds like a plan to me. You calling Ben or am I?
IMO, Beltran will take to much $$$ and his agent (Boras) still think will drag on and on the negotiations to where Boston will already want the RF situation fixed by the time Boras finally decides to sign.
Beltran would be the perfect situation in RF.
i’ll happily give him drew’s salary, but only for a couple years and a club option
Ohhh if it was just that easy….
Wouldn’t it be nice if Boston was just waiting on 12/7 to roll around and see if Ortiz to decline arbitration? Cherrington and Boras have already swapped figures and had something “workable” in place and Ortiz declining was all that was holding it up?
Edit:
Would be willing to see them “bottom feed” on a Bedard type SP this off season, bring back Wake, then stretch out Doubront and get Wilson on the fast track (that they blew big time last year) for the other emergency arms o get beltran signed fast.
They’ve dealt with Boras plenty of times before, and while there’s always the chance that someone goes crazy for him, I don’t think at his age and with his knee issues Beltran will get too many years or crazy amounts of money.
wear and tear from playing on the field is what keeps him from more games. His being able to play the DH is what he needs. If he could play DH, say 40-50 games a season the hope is he could get back up to 140+ games a season.
The Red Sox lineup is sooo LH heavy it hurts them, teams try to line up lefties as much as possible and who expects ortiz to crush lefties again like he did in 2011, when he struggled mightily vs them the previous 3 seasons?
As for not slowing..His 3 seasons prior to that were all downhill, how much of that could have been a combo of aging and his severe wrist injury combined in 2008 is not known, but the team has lefties in Gonzalez, Ells, CC, vs RH with just Youk and Pedey and Youk struggling to remain on the field under the pounding he takes at 3b and beating at the plate with pitchers always throwing at him.
Another idea of mine other than Willingham if the Sox do not resign ortiz and choose to redirect all the $$$ to pitching is to try to just sign Cody Ross as the best #4 OF they have had since Crisp. He could be the RH guy who can play every OF position pretty well and take over RF just in case Kalish/Reddick both have problems.. A safe bet and would cost FAR less than Willingham..
That would leave Lavarnway and Youk to rotate out as RH DH and Lowrie/Avilles as utility guys and 3B, not an awful choice at all.
Agree. I’d rather save Youkilis by letting him DH than re-sign Ortiz so he can come back next year, fail to hit left handed pitching (like he did 3 of the past 4 years), whine to the media & fail to run through first base all year long.
..and this is my point exactly. I am not talking down about the guy, my point is purely the business of this and my lack of understanding as to why they even offered arbitration in the first place. My opinion of the Valentine meeting was to smooth over the situation and perhaps talk Ortiz into a lower salary for 2 years. I just have a hard time understanding why management felt he would absolutely walk away or that his value in the market would be greater than it really is. This is one of contract situations, almost like Jeter where you have an aging star who’s production hasn’t exactly fallen off, but these teams need to hedge themselves for the inevitable. It’s hard to justify offering these players less based on past production, but the market showed that no team would have matched or beat Jeter’s $17mm per and no one will come close to Ortiz arb of $15mm+, for a year. Let alone 2-3 years for $24mm-$36mm or something like that. Despite his pretty great season, I think his value, strictly as a DH, is something like $8mm or $9mm per year and a 2 year deal of $16mm-$18mm. Even those numbers are high. Ortiz has a lot of leverage against the Sox right now. The fact that arb is available should make it possible for him get a better 2 year deal from the Sox versus another team. He’s probably inline for $10mm-$12mm. I know I say a lot of crappola on here about the Sox, but its hard to disagree with these points. It was a mistake for the Sox to offer Arb. The draft pick compensation wasn’t great enough considering the financial risk, especially with the new incentives to keep payroll lower. As you stated, that money could be much better spent right now.
showalter calling the shots?
They let him pretend
It could be a stall tactic. Make Ortiz think he is getting a two year, and as soon as the seventh comes and goes you get the draft picks and move on.
On another note; does saying that “he doesn’t anticipate the Red Sox pursuing high-end starting pitching options” really include Oswalt? I know he’s a good pitcher, but I’m thinking Cherington is talking more about money and years, and Oswalt should be relatively cheap and a short deal.
Thought the same thing…what about Maholm? Or is my lack of Pirates knowledge showing?
Well they declined his option, so he is available, but I think there is a high probability that he would be a disaster in Boston.
And it’s not like a solid starting pitcher isn’t EXACTLY what we need or anything…
*cough*Buehrle*cough*
I wouldn’t mind Buehrle in theory, but I wouldn’t want to give him the 3+ years he’s looking for and will likely get, and I don’t like the fact that he’ll likely get paid as much, or more, per year as Oswalt.
Buehrle has been my number one target from the get go, honestly. He’s superbly dependable, which is exactly what the Sox need this season. As a bonus, I recall hearing that he’s a good clubhouse guy. Basically the antithesis of John Lackey.
I’ll take Oswalt for the money he’ll get over Buehrle. His upside is just flat out better, and it’s only been very recently that he’s dealt with some injuries.
I mean, I’d say that recent injuries are worse, aren’t they? I’d rather have the guy who has thrown at least 200 innings *every season* (11 so far) of his career.
Granted, I’ll take Oswalt, but I’ll be sad when Buehrle signs elsewhere.
Pretty much exactly what Matthew T said; The low end of what Buehrle will make is about the high end of what Oswalt will make, plus Buehrle will get 1-2 more years, and Oswalt is a better pitcher when he’s healthy.
reliable or not, weak stuff from a lefthander in fenway is a risky proposition. his career ERA of 5 (4.8 FIP) there confirms that – and his career numbers against the yankees aren’t inspiring either (6.38 ERA, 4.76 FIP)
oswalt and/or bedard please
I’m going to go ahead and say that Bedard is moving on. He was just so awful after we got him, I can’t imagine they’re going to play around with that again unless he has NO other offers and Cherington can get him at a bargain basement price.
Bedard actually pitched pretty good after joining the Sox, his only real issue was the walks which were uncharacteristically high, even for a guy who has had an issue limiting walks in the past.
i’d attribute the walks to fatigue, since his innings count was higher than it had been in years. no data to back that up, just a hunch
bedard pitched to a 3.47 FIP, 3.71 SIERA, and an ERA of 4 for boston, so not sure where that review comes from. adjusted for park & league those numbers good to very good. he was the #3 he was asked to be and would be an excellent #4
admittedly i am a bedard fan and i understand most people in boston aren’t. but objectively speaking his upside exceeds just about anybody’s outside of wilson and maybe darvish and he should be cheap
His ERA/FIP numbers impress me less given that he threw 38 innings in 8 starts, also known as an average of 4.5 innings per start. His ERA would probably have been higher if he didn’t throw 962 pitches every inning. It was so frustrating watching his pitch count climb higher and higher as he just couldn’t get people out.
a fair criticism, but you’re omitting some context. he was on a strict pitch count limit for 3 of those 8 starts and a short leash in general because of injury concerns
now maybe that’s enough to scare you off in the future, but i don’t think it should. 6 innings of 3.5 FIP ball out of your #4 starter is a lot more than most teams get
I mean, his injury history is one of the major reasons I’m not too keen on relying on him. Injuries have been out biggest issues in the past couple of seasons, so I’d rather get a guy who has proven his health.
can’t argue with that. he and buehrle are perfect opposites in that respect
The emotional scars that people like Dice-K left me with run very deep, friend x_x
I don’t think the injury concerns are as great with Bedard as they are for most “injury prone” guys. He had a back issue that has never come back, he had a shoulder(?) issue (again, never came back), and now he’s had a knee/leg issue, so it’s not like a recurring thing, or even related things.
(going from memory, so the exact injuries may be off but the idea is still valid)
as for not being able to get guys out, i remind you of this all too common experience for bedard in boston
i.imgur.com/3kFJM.gif
Geez, I do remember that game. I don’t know what was going on that day. Kind of a defining game for the season though xD
100% agreement on the Oswalt and/or Bedard comment.
Did you see all of the talk about Bard starting going on today? Not sure what to make of it, but it sounded a lot more serious than I thought it would ever actually be.
for all the defending i’ve done of that idea, i’m not actually in favor of it because i think it will lead to a stupid contract for a closer
if it doesn’t lead to a stupid contract, i’ll be on board. the kid can pitch
Agreed, although not doing it potentially leads to a stupid contract for a starter.
My ideal scenario though is Bard as the closer, and Oswalt and Bedard in the rotation.
Texas and St. Louis proved that you don’t need a rotation of studs to win, just guys that can give you a decent 5 or 6 innings and a strong bullpen. I wouldn’t mind seeing Bard and Aceves in the rotation next year, even if it meant overpaying a closer.
It appears the budget is tight this year and I’d rather see the Sox spend their money on the bullpen and a RH bat than blow it all on one starting pitcher.
I’d like to see them say to heck with it and blow past the luxury tax personally…
Realistically though, if I have to choose I’d rather they spend the money on starting pitching than on the offense or the bullpen. It was the starting pitching that sank them last year, and it’s the place that they need the most help.
They should be able to afford both Oswalt and Bedard, which would give them five really talented pitchers, even if it means Reddick/Kalish in RF, and Bard, Aceves, and Jenks in the back end of the ‘pen.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they go a little bit over the luxury tax for just this season. If they can get a couple of guys like Oswalt and K-Rod on one year deals that are a bit higher in price, that gives them time to get some of their MiLB guys ready. The Sox have exceeded the luxury tax before, I wouldn’t be surprised if Henry’s willing to do so this year to keep interest in the team from getting too low for his liking.
I think Gammons will crap himself if Bard becomes a starter. Be the first thing he’s gotten right in a long time. Although, I remember when he said it he also, in the same breath, said Andrew Miller would be this year’s closer.
I’d rather Wakefield close than Andrew Miller.
Gammons called Epstein leaving like a week before it got serious.
Best news possible for Rays-Ortiz is overpaid and over-hyped.
lol
Go to your room.